The last time I dissbled the EGR, I blocked it off. I recently had to get it smogged and removed the block off plate. I'm getting ready to disable it again and even though it takes less than a minute to block off, I was thinking why not just unplug the electrical.

Since it actually senses flow, there's a check engine light either way you do it. My main question for those that have a service manual or know the answer, does the ECU view a blocked EGR the same as a disconnected EGR? What I'm hoping is the car will behave exactly the same with it unplugged as blocked without any "limp" problems.

I'm going to try it out in an hour but just wondering if anyone has experience unplugging it to stop flow.

 

One of the primary reasons for EGR is to reduce knocking by lowering temperature inside combustion chamber. With higher temperatures knock sensor pulls timing more often then it should. You gain some power and immediately lose some, makes me wander what is the net-net effect. (In the past you've mentioned that your engine pulls timing all the time). It is also my understanding that when engine knock is identified computer limits regular air supply and fully opens EGR but when EGR is blocked/closed it creates vacuum therefore reducing power. I'd like to see some real life tests on hot and cold engine.

 

I think it throws the 1491 code, it is insufficient lift or open in wiring to PCM, I should remember my old senile ass has forgot plug in a few things lately LOL

 

I was only asking about the ECUs logic, not the benefits or negatives. The EGR is not there to reduce knock. It's there to lower NOx emissions. The EGR reduces power when it's functioning because it's dikuting the intake charge with inert gas, so to try and partially make up for that power loss the ECU advances the timing slightly only when EGR is on. The knock sensor does not detect combustion temps. It detects knock. There is no full EGR operation to reduce knock. EGR is not active at idle or at full throttle so you don't have to worry about that vacuum stuff you're talking about.

The car runs much better without it. No additional knock whatsoever. Part throttle power is improved and low end torque is improved. The surging is gone and mpg improved slightly. Mine has been disabled for a year until I had to enable it for a smog check. Once I enabled it, the car was no fun to drive again on hot days. I couldn't get it smogged quick enough so I could hurry up and disable it again.

I drove it last night with the EGR unplugged and it drove nice. The test was this morning when I forgot I did anything to it and noticed it was pulling so much better and smoother at part throttle. It took me a minute to remember I had disconnected it yesterday so it eliminates placebo effect. It's a HUGE improvement in drivability and low end power especially on a hot day but even on cooler mornings obviously.. I'll never run it again except for smog time.

So whether the ECU sees the EGR is not functional and goes to a lower timing table or just doesn't bump the timing during normal EGR function or the fact that it requires far less throttle to make the same power that means no knocking doesn't mstter, it has no knock with no EGR.

This is my thread about how the ECU views a disconnected EGR vs a blocked egr. I really don't want to use it to debunk myths and half truths.

 

Thank you, that's what I was looking for. So it looks like it will treat either condition the same. It seems to drive the same as well.

 

lol @ trying to school I hate cars on egr system and being completely wrong.

Like he mentioned egr is only there for emission purposes. NOx is a by product of high combustion chamber temps. EGR pumps inert gas back into the intake to help reduce temps therefore reducing NOx emissions.

The knock sensor is responsible for detecting knock and notifies the ECU which will retard timing

I don't know everything but that's Pretty basic car knowledge.

 

Do you have hondata? You can turn off the egr without throwing the CEL. But I have no idea about blocking vs unplugging

 

Dear moderators,


With respect to starter of this thread and his further request to refrain from posting not relevant information should you find this post irrelevant to original topic please remove it as soon as you can.


Since IHC has already received confirming statement to his initial request I assume that it is OK for me to expand on this topic.



Basic intent of EGR is to reduce NOx emission and it is achieved by controlling temperature inside combustion chamber. EGR not only disabled at idle and WOT it is also disabled until engine reaches its normal temperature. There are other benefits of keeping cooler temperature inside combustion chamber (kind of like a side effect).


Here is cut and paste from Wiki


A properly operating EGR can theoretically increase the efficiency of gasoline engines via several mechanisms:

• Reduced throttling losses. The addition of inert exhaust gas into the intake system means that for a given power output, the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throttle_plate must be opened further, resulting in increased inlet manifold pressure and reduced throttling losses.
• Reduced heat rejection. Lowered peak combustion temperatures not only reduces NOx formation, it also reduces the loss of thermal energy to combustion chamber surfaces, leaving more available for conversion to mechanical work during the expansion stroke.
• Reduced chemical dissociation. The lower peak temperatures result in more of the released energy remaining as sensible energy near TDC (Top Dead-Center), rather than being bound up (early in the expansion stroke) in the dissociation of combustion products. This effect is minor compared to the first two.

In addition exhaust valves operate at the cooler temperature and with cooler temperature inside combustion chamber engine is less prone to knock. Most of the benefit from EGR is at cruising speeds.


In modern engines it is almost impossible to gain any benefit by disabling EGR because it is no longer controlled by vacuum and you cannot make adjustments by pulling a cable. Most of its operation is controlled by ECU by disabling one part of the whole system ECU will compensate by making adjustments in timing, throttle position, mixture and so on. True way do disable it is by reprogramming ECU.

I am not trying to school anyone you can't teach an old dog new tricks, this is intended for those with an open mind.

 

That would be ideal, thanks. Unfortunately I don't have Hondata but it might be worth it just to get rid of the light.

 

Open mind? You were dead wrong in your EGR description. One of the simplest systems on the car and you don't even know what it's used for and when it's used.

I have not found the exact information I'm looking for. Still trying to figure out if timing is altered with no EGR so stop screwing up my thread with off topic crap. You've already began your usual brain dead style of debate. You ignore where I prove you're dead wrong and instead act as if you knew it all along such as the EGR being non functional at idle and full throttle. I don't have time for kids.

You don't have the brain power to understand anything you just wrote. Instead of debating anything I said, you quote wiki or go off on some tangent about open minds. I don't want to be mean but you're simply not smart enough to understand the simplest systems and you're not smart enough to know you know nothing. I can't help you. However, this thread is not about the advantages and disadvantages of EGR. Go start a different thread so you can swing your little dick elsewhere.

You may have forgotten one thing though..... I've been running no EGR for over a year now. Nothing but positive things to say which is why I've done it again now that the car passed smog. Instead of quoting wiki on theories you don't understand, you would be better off trying to figure out why the TL runs better with no EGR (as many cars do).

 

Damn, I didn't know we could do that. That's awesome. I'm going to look for it in the settings.

 

Have you done this before? How did you like it?

 

I will look at my kids Flashpro and see if I can get EGR to show while data-log is recording , or I could use the HDS at work I know I can look at everything on it and see what reaction the timing has with it on - off - unplugged

 

[QUOTE=I hate cars;15191364]EGR. Go start a different thread so you can swing your little dick elsewhere.

QUOTE]

At least I have something to swing and not on a period like you are. I'd like to send a box of tampax, should I send it directly to IT department attn to Matt with a period or communications tech?

 

IHC which plate did you use?

As for the flashpro under calibration > misc parameters > EGR Enabled

This would be a cheap and sweet little mod if you own a flashpro to squeeze out some extra power.

 

I have a feeling a lot more people will have their egr unplugged very soon )

I replaced my oem egr with a non-oem from advanceautoparts and the car ran better no doubt. I cant prove it obviously so if it had something to do with it or not I dont know.

But i will try this at some point just to compare, my car runs great lately as i have found my biggest trouble maker of all! The damn throttle body. I inspected it but could never tell ...

 

Acura-OC and anyone else interested in discussing it further can do it here: https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...unplug-919354/

And Matt- do we really have to be that abrasive? Geez.

 

It was abrasive and if there wasn't a history with this guy I would be a big a$$hole. He got caught plagiarizing material the last time we had a go around and he throws a bunch of crap at me from google that I have to discredit while he doesn't understand the stuff he's quoting.

I have no problem not knowing stuff. Thisaznboi88taught me something I didn't know and I thanked him for it. But OC is wrong 99% of the time and refuses to acknowledge it. Instead he changes his stance and moves on. It's not debating to learn, it's debating to win which is no good for anyone.

For example, he started with this:

"One of the primary reasons for EGR is to reduce knocking by lowering temperature inside combustion chamber."

"I'd like to see some real life tests on hot and cold engine."

And ended with this after I corrected him as if he knew it all the time:

"Basic intent of EGR is to reduce NOx emission and it is achieved by controlling temperature inside combustion chamber. EGR not only disabled at idle and WOT it is also disabled until engine reaches its normal temperature."

After I correct him, stating that EGR is disabled at idle and at full throttle and that the purpose is to reduce NOx emissions, he restates it as if he's the one teaching me, and not acknowledging he was dead wrong in his first post while saying I'm closed minded and can't learn anything new. Can anyone else see how this is frustrating?

I'll be happy to take this to the other thread.

 

Alright....back on topic.

 

Thank you.

I'm waiting on a reply back on an email to put the original question to rest. My guess is that the timing bump that's present when EGR is active is not there when it's not active. Hopefully I'll know today.

 

Does anyone know if you need to retune when disabling the EGR through flashpro, assuming you're doing it after you've already tuned it?

 

FINDINGS
Reporting an issue with EGR delete. I decided to experiment with simply unplugging the electrical clip on the valve, and have been very satisfied with more predictable throttle response especially in the lower half of throttle curve. As I do a lot of city driving this improvement in part throttle "feel" was very important to me. No negative impact in fuel economy. Actually I might say a little better about 5-7% but it's anecdotal and cannot be compared with control.

However I've noticed the MID's oil life goes down so fast, I just changed oil this Monday and am already at 80%. I have since drove about 600 miles and my driving habit during those 600 did not differ from past 6 months.

WHAT DO?
I just found this out so I didn't have much time to think. Assuming the oil life keeps going down at this rate, maybe MID is guestimating oil life to be at worst possible scenario because the CEL is on. I think I'm gonna head to our v6 brother forum and buy a "fresh air EGR adapter". It's not that I rely on MID for oil change, I just like to have semi-accurate reminder for everything else for when my brain goes on a strike as I rage-quit writing my carkeeping book about two years ago.

BUT
I should probably start writing it again but still I would rather have no CEL than CEL, as long as the "fresh air EGR adapter" doesn't mess up the combustion. And by that I mean, I'm thinking if the car advances timing when EGR is active, it will have too much advance and will have to knock (if at all, at least weakly pre-detonate) for the knock sensor to pick it up and pull back timing. I'm not sure if providing fresh air into EGR cause knock due to EGR timing advance. And if there is knock, will long term spark retard take care of it?

ETC
I'm just thinking all sorts of things because I'm about to try the adapter. I don't think a few degrees at part load part throttle will cause any undesirable combustion because car says it's desinged for 91 but all we have is 93, which is what the car's had all her life. But I shall see...