hank1105

Have a slight dilemma guys and gals. I want to get the Acura TL, but I would also want AWD. Since almost everyone agrees that Acura might offer the TL with AWD for the 2008 model waiting for the TL in 2 years is not possible. I have leased all my cars but I was going to purchase the Acura TL. How is this for an idea, lease the TL for 3 years, then if AWD is out by then, purchase that model? If I purchase the car now I will hold on to it for at least 7-8 years. Just not sure on what to do, as you can see. Any help is appreciated.

Hank

chill_dog

With your desire for a TL and AWD, it seems pretty obvious...lease now, buy later. If you buy now, when AWD comes out, you'll regret it...especially if you plan on having the purchased car for 8 years. I normally don't recommend leasing, but you're obviously aware of what it means financially and you're ok with that...life is too short not to get what you want...enjoy the current TL for 3 years and buy the AWD at that point...you'll be happy now and later.

ludachrisvt

iTrader: (2)

if u want AWD get the RL. It is on lease special until the end of the month!! 600 a month ... thats awesome!!!

hank1105

Thanks for the replies. I think I will go the lease route. The RL is not the car I want.

KilroyR1

FWD + extra set of wheels with snow tires = better traction than AWD + all-season tires.

ndx2

I'd actually buy it, unless they're offering a real attractive lease deal.

Get a quote for lease and calculate your overall payment amount. Acuras tend to hold their value quite well; many times, the buy out price is less than what you can sell your car for in normal lease terms (3-4 years).

Also, think about what a predicament you'd be in if the AWD version is coming to the market in a year or so AFTER your lease term's over. Extend the lease? Lease/buy a different car for the time being? Not being bound by the lease term will give you more flexibility in selecting your next car, as well as negotiating. Lower monthly payment is a plus, but really, it's not that much less, and even with $0 down, you still have to pay $1500~ at signing.

hank1105

Good point, still not sure. I want the TL very badly, we shall see. Thanks again.

WdnUlik2no

I leased only one car in my life and I hated it. But that's just me. In your case I would just lease now and buy what you really want. short term leases are the best, anything over 36 months is not a good lease in my opinion. Have you considered trying swapalease.com or leasetrader.com. You can take over people's leases that have less that 36 months left on their TL's and most of the time you don't even need a down payment, better yet some of the times they even give you money for taking their leases over!

I think thats a great alternative to leasing through a dealer.

I just checked, and I don't see many 3G TL's up there that are short term, but here is one 2004 TL, 25 months remaining $2000 incentive as well

WdnUlik2no

Here's another: 15 months left on this one

ac2001cls

I guess if you did lease then you would need to get a clear understanding as to whether or not you would be able to add certain options to the car. Say for example, if you wanted the A-Spec a few months down the road, or if you wanted to get your windows tinted. You would need to find out if that would be okay by it being a lease, knowing that at the end of the lease, one of your options could be to trade it in for something else.

Do any of you guys know about that?

hank1105

If you lease you normally can't add options, at least that I aware of. This was the case when I leased cars in the past.

ndx2

Generally, it's ok to tint your windows and/or add OEM parts/accessories on leased vehicles. Of course, any non-permanent mods can be made as long as you replace with stock parts at the end of the term.

I've seen a case where the owner didn't keep the OEM parts, thus returned the car with a few mods (intake, exhaust, a few other little things here and there)... now, his parts were actually good, properly installed and maintained - the dealership kept it and sold it as is - but they also charged him a hefty penalty + cost & installation of OEM parts. He lost thousands $$.

ac2001cls

WOW see stuff like that.... GOTTA WATCH OUT FOR!

quake97

I was told the only mods I could make to my leased TL was with OEM accessories and parts. That way they could resell the car without any issues. I'd obviously lose the money I put into the car with the accessories, unless I decided to buy it at the end of the lease.

Joe

midas69

How much faith do you put in the 2008 rumor? That's really the big question. If it does happen in 2008, I suspect it would be a complete redesign. My policy, and that of many other people, is to never buy a first year redesign.

So if 2008 is correct, and you wait till the '06 models hit, it would make sense to do a 3 year lease. That will put your lease expiration right when the '09 models are ready.

Russdaddy

Leases just don't work for me and are one of the biggest rip offs known to mankind. I may pay a little bit more by financing, but at least I have the option of selling my car when I'm finished paying for it because it's M-I-N-E!!

hank1105

Well things keep changing, it now looks like I will get the TL, got an awesome price. Been going back and fourth between the TL and Accord (fully loaded). Still have to work out some of the details, but I am getting below invoice. Guess it is all about timing. I just don't like to lease anymore because at the end you don't have anything.

Hank

WdnUlik2no

I learned the hard way that leasing wasn't for me. I leased an 04 Maxima and I hated the car on top of that. Paying for a car that I hated and wasn't even mine was one of the worse feelings in my life. I finally sold it to a guy in the paper. He came up with the money that I was selling it for and I made up the difference between that and the pay off amount. It wasn't cheap, but I stood to lose much much more had I kept it full term.

ac2001cls

I don't knock leasing at all, however, i do knock it when you don't even like what you lease and you're stuck with it. I blame the individual for that. And when the lease is up you're not left with "nothing", you can buy it out, or trade on something else. So i disagree with that statement. Like someone said, leasing allows you to have lower payments. Many of you know i just picked up my 05TL NBP/Camel/Navi/AT the other night and i was able to get it in my name, however, i already knew that i would have to prolly lease the vehicle because i wouldn't want to finance it and my payments be sky high (around 600+/month) That wouldn't be able to fit in my budget. So that's one of the main reasons why i opted for a 3 year lease vs. a 4 year lease. So i won't be paying on it for a long time. So when my lease is up, if the TL has AWD by that time, then i'll definitely trade my 05 Navi for that model TL. And by that time i should be stable enough to actually finance it then. However, if the TL doesn't have AWD then my other option would be to trade in for the RL model at that time. But that all depends on my financial situation in 3-4 years. And if i don't think i'll be able to handle the RL payments then i'll just keep my 05TL and finance it. And i'll still have an AWESOME car to drive and it won't be that old.

I realize they're pros and cons to it. But my main reason for leasing was so i could get my payment close to what i was paying when i financed my CL and the only way for that to happen was to lease it. And i'm actually paying about $30 less and i'm driving a brand new TL!!!

WdnUlik2no

of course I liked the Maxima when I first leased it, but later on I started to hate it, thats what I meant. You think i am stupid enough to go out and lease a car that I hate to begin with?

Anyway I am not saying leasing isn't for everyone, in fact, in this guys situation, I would recommend leasing because he knows what he wants in the future and that this car would be temporary until the new TL's come out that are exactly what he wants.

If I lease again it will be short term (less than 2 years) and more than likely I will assume someone else's lease. My main problems with leasing are below.

1. have to constantly keep track of your mileage (when I sold my Maxima to that guy, I only had 9300 miles on it, and I had it for 15 months)
2. Have to worry about every scratch, ding, etc (though I do that now anyway. LOL)
3. Paying to drive a car that is not even yours.
4. When you turn the car in, you are left with nothing and all the money spent on monthly payments is gone and there is nothing to show for it. a $400/month lease for say 36 months is $14400. not to mention any down payment that may have been made.
5. If you have to get out of the car for financial reasons or just start hating the car, its much harder (and more expensive) to get out of a lease than a finance.

I thought about leasing my TL, but then I thought what was the point, I could afford the finance payments just as easily. In fact my TL payments are only 6 dollars more than what my Maxima lease was.

Plus if I do decide to sell it or pay it off early, I don't have to tack on 6% sales tax on the payoff amount as is the case with buying out a leased vehicle.

ac2001cls

Well no i didn't mean that you were stupid upon getting the car and it not being what you liked. I'll just use myself for example, i've done tons and tons of research on the new TL and reading the forum here a lot so i know that I'LL NEVER GET TIRED OF DRIVING MY TL. You should have thought further down the road.

And by all means if you can afford the payment as far as financing then i would say to definitely finance instead of leasing. In my case however, i wasn't able to do that because my payment a month would have changed drastically from a lease to financing. However, if i had the choice and could afford it.... DEFINITELY FINANCE!!!!

About the mileage there's no need of having to keep track of your mileage. Because YOU'RE NOT CHARGED OVER for the mileage if you decide to buy out the car or if you decide to trade it in on something else. The absolute ONLY time that you're charged is if you walk into the dealer and you say "Here's the car and the keys i don't want it anymore" and you don't get anything for it. That's when you're charged the "over the mile fee". So with me i picked the 15k miles per year. And know i may go slightly over, then again maybe i won't. But my sales guy said if you buy it at the end, or if you trade it in on another model then you won't be charged!

WdnUlik2no

Oh Ok I see your point now. I never heard of not being charged for over the mileage if you trade it for another model, but I guess that does kind of make sense when I think about it.

ac2001cls

Yea you know what i didn't know about that aspect either. I thought the only way you wouldn't be charged is if you opt to buy out at the end. However as i was saying when i picked up my car the other night and was talking with my sales guy about it he broke it down to me and that's when he said that part also. About if you trade it in, you also won't be charged. I also made him repeat hisself to make sure i heard him correctly. LOL!!!

hank1105

ac2001cls - interesting points you make. Like I said, I have been leasing cars for 9 years now. I never kept any of them, because at the end I was just tired of them. However, I did purchase a Nissan Pathfinder for my wife, financed and everything, have one year left on it, I truly love that SUV and I am glad I didn't lease it.

My biggest issue with leasing is at the end you don't have anything. Just like renting, at the end you don't have any capital, although vehicle depreciate instead of housing which has been appreciating (sp?). In any event, I never thought the buy option was that great at all. Are you sure you read the fine print. When it comes down to it, say you lease and it is $400 bucks a month and you put 4k down. At the end of the lease you have spent $14,400 plus the 4K down = $18,400. There has to be hidden costs somewhere in there regarding the buyout, although I could be wrong. Think about it, if that was the case everyone would be doing that, like a try and buy. Also think about assets, you can't say that you own car because you don't, actually you don't own a car until you are actually done with the financing or if you bought straight out.

As far as waiting 3 years for possibly the AWD model, it isn't a bad idea, but I would assume the price will go up. Who knows the the RL hasn't been getting the greatest review regarding it's AWD. In any event, my buddy got a TL about 6 years ago, yeah he had the tranny problem, otherwise he is fine with car, all paid off. Now he can use that money as a trade-in for a new TL. Leasing is good and bad. I am just tired of stressing somewhat about mileage and dings, all that crap. Life is too short.

Here is the kicker, got a price of $32,250 with Navi, have to love end of summer sales

Damn, I wrote a lot, sorry about that.

midas69

I'm constantly amazed that people that have no real understanding of leases have no problem stating, without reservations, how leasing is a bad idea. Yes, if you plan to keep a car a long time, if you like to mod, if you drive a lot of miles or you're just generally hard on a car leasing is a bad idea. But it's not a bad idea for everyone.

They always like to talk about paying all sorts of money and not owning anything. Well let me give you a simple challenge. Take a look at your typical lease terms for a 3 year lease. Then work out how long you'd have to finance the car for to get those exact same terms regarding down payment and monthly payment.

You probably won't be able to do it with a 6 year loan. You might have to go 7 years. But whether it's 6 or 7, now amortize the loan out and see how much you owe at the end of 3 years. Now look up the trade-in value of the same model car you have that's 3 years old. Now realize that you are what's called UPSIDE-DOWN on your loan.

So tell me exactly what it is that you OWN.

hank1105

Midas69 - please explain more, state some numbers, I am just curious. If you are going to keep a car for 8 years, you could lease then buy, you could just finance it, but what would be the better choice. This conversation intrigues me because I have no problem leasing, although I would have to worry about miles, dings, etc. My whole issue is at the end you don't have anything.

Let me put it this way, say I leased a car for 3 years and in the end I paid $18,400 (400*36+4k down). Would Acura simply state, ok the cost of the car was $33,000 so you owe $14,600 plus the remaining tax on the car if you want to keep it? Or you can turn it back in, hopefully you are under the miles and no major dings and we can set you up in a new TL. I wish I could find out from a dealer's perspective. Seriously, I have never heard of anyone buying their car after the lease was completed, I am sure it happens. I just have a feeling that has to be some extra costs involved. I am completely talking out of my ass right now, I have no idea if there is or isn't any additional costs involved.

I am going to the dealership this Saturday to lock everything in. Although I did want to finance the car, but leasing would cost me less initially. Just not sure and everyone has brought up interesting points.

So is there anyone here that has purchased their lease car???

midas69

If you plan to keep the car, you are better off just buying from the start. The interest rate on a purchase tends to be slightly lower than the interest (called money factor) on a lease. But the numbers are pretty close. Where it gets really different is when you buy a used car. Those rates tend to be much higher than new car rates. And when you buy your car at the end of the lease, unless you pay cash, you are financing a used car.

As far as my original point, let me give you an example of the numbers as I see them. Take an '05 TL with a selling price of $32,500. According to Leasecompare.com, your payment would be $499 a month for a 36 month lease. Total out of pocket cost at inception is $0. If you put down $4K your monthly cost would drop to $379. The residual value at the end of the lease is $19,729.

If you financed the same $32,500 this is what I see. My bank shows a 6 year rate at 7.6%. With no money down (and good luck getting that loan) your payment would be $563.50. That's $64.50 a month more per month. Over a 3 year term that's $2322 more.

If you put $4K down the montly rate comes out to $494.15. That's a whopping $115.15 per month more than the lease. Over 36 months that's $4145.40 more.

Now let's look at how much you still owe at the end of 3 years. With $0 down you still owe $18088.90. If the car is really worth (again, good luck) the quoted residual value, you have a whopping $1640.10 in equity built up after 3 years. And you paid an extra $2322 to get that equity. According to my calculations, even if you don't factor any interest on that $2322, you lost $681.90. IOW, you own NOTHING.

If you look at the scenario with $4K down, at the end of 3 years you owe $15862.42. Using the same residual value you have $3866.58 in equity. And you paid an extra $4145.40 to get that equity. In this case you are still upside down for a total of $278.82. Better than the first example, but it's still a negative equity.

And like I said, to really make the payments closer to equal you'd need to find a place that will finance for 7 years. Yes, you can probably get slightly better interest rates. You could probably get slightly better lease rates too. But the bottom line is that after 3 years the numbers are going to be pretty close no matter which way you go. But I can guarantee you that unless you sell your car yourself at the end of the 3 year you'll never get close to the quoted residual value. You won't get it just trying to trade it in after 3 years.

And that's the big difference to someone that just wants a new car every 3 years.

ac2001cls

midas69... correct me if i'm wrong but from the way you've explained it, it seems as if there is no big difference b/t leasing and financing. Because you gotta remember the overall reason people lease is to get a lower payment, as in my case. And then you have the people that just likes to get a new car every 3 or 4 years. But i'm not too crazy about that aspect. As i said before when my 3 years are up, if Acura decides to put AWD on the TL then that will be the ONLY reason that i trade it in. And if that does happen, then i'll be looking to finance it then because i assume that i'll be able to be a lil more ahead as far as my monies is concerned so i would be able to handle a monthly payment and finance. And by that time, you know that they'll prolly have a new model design as well. And if that happens then it all depends on how i like the new model. This model design compared to last model design totally rocks more. That's why i wanted to wait in order to get this new model design. More sportier. And that's what i like. I've always had "sports coupe cars". But again if all that doesn't work out then i'll just keep my 05TL and finance it then.

ndabunka

Hmmm, people with no idea about leasing think it's bad, huh? Actually, the peoiple who actually DO understand leasing are the ones who realize a bad deal. Your example is taken directly out of a sales 101 pitch (i.e. a closing arguement). Seems your easily influenced by what a salesperson says. All your saying is that you can drive a car for less money (RIGHT NOW). What YOU apparently DO NOT realize is that leasing a car cost you a LOT more money. With Acura interest rates around 2.9 when I bought mine and lease factors SO much higher, you would have had to of been conned into a lease at that time (I guess you were from your tone. Sorry to hear that). At the end of 3 years, I will owe around $11,000 on my 04TL. The residual at that time should be around $22K. That means that I will have at LEAST $10,000 in equity in my 04TL at that point. My payments are $563/month so they are essentially lower than YOUR payments. I did put a little money down (about $5K) on my TL so that my payments were in the area I wanted them to be in (This is the SMART thing to do). At the end of 3 years, I have around $6,000 of value more than you would with your ill-advised lease. Sometimes people can't be educated. Apparently, you are one of them.

PS - If you realise you are simply RENTING a vehicle for 3 years, would you do it? The idea behind wealth is to increase it, not to spend it. Leasing is spending. PERIOD. You get no tax deductions for leasing (in most cases). Rather, leasing is a simple parlor trick that so many (like you) have been fooled into so that someone else gets to keep your money (the leasing company).

Parker75

Midas69, you make some excellent points. Leasing does work for many folks for a variety of reasons.

One thing to keep in mind while crunching the $$$$ is the mileage you get per year on your lease. Going over it is a real possibility since the TL is such an enjoyable car to drive. You may find that you will prefer taking the TL on trips over other cars you have.

Personally I am surprised how quickly I racked up my miles - 8,600 so far. I got mine on Mar 7th so I am putting on 20K miles per year.

Sweet ride!

ndabunka

Haha- Just read the above post about a $4K down payment on a lease? Now, I KNOW that you are a LEASE SALESMAN as no sane person in the WOLRD would give a leasing company $4,000 of their own money up front. It just DOES not make sense no matter how you try to justify it. The simple fact is that at the end of a lease, the driver has ZERO equity. At the end of a purchase (in 95% of all cases), the OWNER has REAL VALUE in his car. The ONLY people who get upside down in purchases are idiots that trade in their cars and "allow" the dealer to roll the prior debt into the new loan (Car dealers should be ashamed of themselves for this spitefull but commonly-used tatic).

ac2001cls

Yea i agree i didn't put but $2k down for my lease and based on that i was able to get my payment where i wanted it to be. And my payment now a month is around $30 cheaper than when i was paying for my 01 CL-S which was financed. And look what i'm driving now!!! However, that was in my Dad's name but i was paying the monthly payment. The difference now is my 05TL is solely in MY NAME so i'm getting credit for it

ndx2

I think you're misunderstanding midas's post, ndabunka. He's not arguing that leasing is better; and stated that if you're going to keep the car for a long time, then it's a no brainer to buy/finance the car. However, he's correctly describing that leasing is suitable for some, especially if you're only going to keep the car for 3~ years.

I don't know why you have to make condescending remarks towards his explanation. IMO, he correctly explained the advantages of leasing; though it is only true for those who change their cars every 3 years or less.

Although not practical, there's really nothing wrong with 2k, 4k "downpayment" on a lease, either. Sure, it's a dumb thing to do if that's all you have in the bank, but for a lot of us, it's really no big deal - maybe he wanted an even lower monthly payment for whatever reason (maybe his income/cash flow fluctuates a lot). Regardless, his example was to compare the difference in lease vs. finance with $0 down and with $4k down.

midas69

Yes, to clear up a few points, my examples were illustrations of the numbers. I don't advocate putting any money down on a lease.

I am having a little bit of a hard time understanding this bit of logic though

[quote]My payments are $563/month so they are essentially lower than YOUR payments. I did put a little money down (about $5K) on my TL so that my payments were in the area I wanted them to be in[\quote]

How is $563 a month (with $5K down) "essentially lower" than the $499 with no money down that I had in my example? There is also no mention in your equation of what you actually paid for the car nor how long you financed it for so it makes it difficult to compare numbers.

You also have assumptions about the residual value being $22K at the end of 3 years. First, the residual is what is determined at the start of lease, not at the end. In fact, if you the "value" of the car were indeed $22K, you could buy it out at the end of the lease and make the difference between the $19,700 residual and the true value. So your calculations still have to be off the $19,700 value. If you take your figure of owing $11K at the end of 3 years, and add your $5k down you've now got $3700 total, then subtract the extra $64 a month for 36 months and you get a grand total of $1396 in extra equity built up. And that's assuming you can actually get $19,700 at the end of 3 years. With a purchase, there is no guarantee. With a lease it's a done deal.

And that's with the Acura incentive of 2.9% financing. This was not available when I bought my car in November. And usually (not always) when there is a financing incentive you can get a further discount off the purchase price if you either arrange your own financing or lease. The Maxima I was looking at had either 2.9% financing or a $1000 rebate. If you take another $1000 off the price you're down to only a $396 difference AT MOST.

You see you are wrong, you are not renting the car. That's what people that don't understand leases don't get. You are paying for the depreciation on the car. And whether you lease or you buy, you are paying for depreciation. When you lease you finance the depreciation and that number thus has to be a fixed amount. You are therefore guaranteed a set value at the end of the lease. You have option to buy out the lease at the end if it turns out the car actually depreciated less. But if it depreciated more you get to walk away.

No, I am not a lease salesman. But I've leased 3 cars in a row now and I understand the numbers. I understand the limitations and recommend it to very few people because of the caveats mentioned here. But I do tend to get upset with people that immediately here the word lease and associate it with the word sucker. It's not true if you really look at the numbers closely.

ndabunka

Midas - Sorry I was wrong on your actual payments. I guess I read that wrong. Looks like you got a fairly aggressive rate. There is depreciation but it doesn't equate to the payments over the term. I take it your figure of $19,700 comes from a 56% residual. OK, then lets work with that. $563 x 36 = $20,268. Original cost on the car was $33,400. Interest cost per month average around $70/month so I'll add that $2,520 back into the original cost of the car to bring it to a total financed cost of $35,920. Subtract the $20,268 in payments and you have $15,652. Now you also need to subtract the original down payment (of $5K from that figure) and you come down to a final "balance" at the end of the 3 year period of $10,652. If the car has the residual value originally projected of $19,700, then I have $9,048 in equity that you don't have on your rented car. This is not the "few hundred" you alluded to in your post but rather several THOUSANDS more.

Using your figures, you would have paid a little over $18K in leasing payments and have ZERO equity at the end of the period. I would have my original $5K investment plus about $4,048 in additional equity. If you want to argue that the original $5K could have been invested and made a certain return, I would not debate that option but lease-to-purchase is a no brainer IMHO.

I'm not saying that people who lease are suckers. Rather, I am saying that most "think" they understand it, but really do not. You have done "some" math but did have some incorrect assumptions in your post. Many simply lease to get them into a car they really "can't afford" and use that as justification. IMHO, if you can't afford to put the amount of money down on a purchase to get the payments right, you should not be buying that car in the first place.

midas69

Unfortunately I don't have time right now to totally disect your numbers, but I see two fatal errors in your calculations. First, if use your $33,400 number, minus $5k you're financing $28,400. If you got 2.9% interest for 6 years your payment should be around $430. If you're paying $563 as you stated, someone pulled a fast one with your paperwork. Unless of course you aren't talking about a 6 year term.

The second, and more fatal flaw is your interest calculation. You talk about the overall interest cost and then try to calculate it as a fixed cost per month. It's not. At the beginning of the loan your interest every month is much higher than at the end of the loan. This is because the interest is calculated based on the unpaid balance every month.

Using your figures of $28400 financed for 6 years at 2.9%, you'd owe $14,816 at the end of 3 years. That's a $4200 difference in your figure. Of course, this is again based on a $430 payment.

And you are correct, you can't look at the $5K you put down as money a lease person doesn't have but still count it as equity that you have. That shouldn't even be part of the calculation.

I'd get into more of it, but I have to get to work so I can make my payment.

jeeper31

If trading the car in you are not "charged" for being over the mileage however, the more mileage there is on the car the less it is worth as a trade in and the better the chance it will be less than the residual value.

ndabunka

I told you my payment amount and the period. Trying to use a "fabricated" figure like $430 is beyond me. Of COURSE you come to a different final figure. The ONLY reason I can see for you picking a number out of thin air is to support your own position (incorrectly). I used the standard monthly amount to "make it easier" for those who don't have a full amortization table in front of them while reading this. However, I do agree that this sthread has extended beyond a usefull format. In the end, I know I purchase cars because I have equity and cash at the end. You lease them because you think it doesn't make any difference. Let's add up our coffers at the end of a 40 year period and see who has more equity (not just in cars, but in life as well). Having proved my point... I'm outta this thread and will not be making any additional response/comments

ac2001cls

I've got a question and/or concern, whatever you would like to call it. So as far as a lease goes, i know that you can end a lease early under specific reasons (that's what i've heard from this board prior). I'm not trying to end the lease early by no means, however, i am just wondering if you can pay a little more to your monthly payment in order to end the lease quicker? Now i know since the term is 3 years (in my case) i prolly wouldn't be able to do anything if it is paid off earlier, and the 3 years isn't up. However, i was just wondering if you could pay a lil more on your lease, the same as you'd do if you financed the car and you may put another $30 or so dollars to it. Is this possible?

Also is it possible to terminate a lease at any given time in order to change it to financing it? Again this is all a learning experience for me so i really appreciate this thread that was started because it's giving me an understanding about it both ways. Thanks guys/gals...

midas69

Well I just reread your post again and I still don't see where you mention the term itself. But it's pretty obvious from the numbers that it's a 5 year term. The $430 number came from a 6 year term. That's what I was basing my calculations in the first post where I quoted numbers.

But none of this has anything to do with your playing fast and loose with the numbers. Your excuse of just multiplying the interest out because you didn't have an amortizaion table handy is about as weak as it gets. You're on the damn internet already to post this stuff. How hard is it to go to Google and type AMORTIZATION TABLE to come up with a site?

That's what I did. I didn't pull any of these numbers out of my ass. I told you I used LEASECOMPARE.COM for the lease and residual numbers. The rest of the numbers can be found from any of thousands of websites.

But hey, if you feel you've proved your point, that's fine by me.