Crashed My TL, Understeered into a tree lol
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12-02-2007, 09:19 PM
#82
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Originally Posted by KJSmitty
This is why I don't respond to many of these threads. Most of you guys - of all ages, judge this kid for doing something that you/most of us do daily.
He took a corner at 15, maybe 20mph and slid into a curb/tree. Sure the way he described his evening of "driving" sounded stupid/childish, but what resulted in him hitting the tree is something many of you chat about all the time - spirited driving. It wasn't some hideous, stupid, crazy, reckless maneuver...
When you're done judging him think about it - It was a 15 mph corner in the rain with bald tires. Nothing more. Could he have hurt or killed someone? Sure, but think about some of the places/driving you have done in the past/present. Luck and Gods grace has much to do with what does or could have happened - be thankful for that.
I'll guarantee if that's all I did when I was his age, I would have been a driving saint and my folks would have slept more hours each night...
HAPPY HOLIDAYS all!!
He took a corner at 15, maybe 20mph and slid into a curb/tree. Sure the way he described his evening of "driving" sounded stupid/childish, but what resulted in him hitting the tree is something many of you chat about all the time - spirited driving. It wasn't some hideous, stupid, crazy, reckless maneuver...
When you're done judging him think about it - It was a 15 mph corner in the rain with bald tires. Nothing more. Could he have hurt or killed someone? Sure, but think about some of the places/driving you have done in the past/present. Luck and Gods grace has much to do with what does or could have happened - be thankful for that.
I'll guarantee if that's all I did when I was his age, I would have been a driving saint and my folks would have slept more hours each night...
HAPPY HOLIDAYS all!!
aaight, peace and have a great new year.
12-02-2007, 09:32 PM
#83
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Originally Posted by KJSmitty
Sure the way he described his evening of "driving" sounded stupid/childish, but what resulted in him hitting the tree is something many of you chat about all the time - spirited driving. It wasn't some hideous, stupid, crazy, reckless maneuver...
The kid is a flying asshole. He is bragging how he SLIDES around that turn every day about 10mph faster then when he crashed. That's not just an evening of spirited driving".
He like to question "how is pulling the e-brake on some turns and sliding around at 15-20mph gonna injure or kill anyone?"
Look at a 5mph bumper test vid doing a few grands worth of damage to a car some day. Too bad the dummy does not understand basic physics & how a 3500lb object can mangle or kill a 10 to 220lb human at a very very low speed.
At least we understand how his tires got bald.
He get it partly right when he says "it's completely my fault for trying stupid shit with it on" What is really scary is that he is apparently to stupid to understand he is trying really stupid shit whether the VSA on or off.
Guys with no training who think & drive like they are on the track when they are going to the store for a carton of milk are dangerous.
12-02-2007, 09:48 PM
#84
TQ > MPG
Wow, doing ebrake slides in the rain on bald tires. Must have been a problem with the VSA.
Moron.
BTW are you also going to pay for the damages fence and trees? You know just because you dont own it doesnt mean somebody doesnt.
Moron.
BTW are you also going to pay for the damages fence and trees? You know just because you dont own it doesnt mean somebody doesnt.
12-02-2007, 10:30 PM
#87
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It's just funny seeing the responses and counter-responses to this thread. 
The argument isn't very convincing.
In my experience, VSA has reduced power to the wheel(s) to increase traction-- like what happens when you stomp on the gas while on a wet road. What you're saying happened to you sounds more like VSA increasing power to the wheels. Where was your right foot during all this? lol.
The argument isn't very convincing.
In my experience, VSA has reduced power to the wheel(s) to increase traction-- like what happens when you stomp on the gas while on a wet road. What you're saying happened to you sounds more like VSA increasing power to the wheels. Where was your right foot during all this? lol.
12-02-2007, 10:57 PM
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What is this the "Bubba Gump Driving School"? Driver Error all the way... Why? Look at those tires. Forget the fact that they are balder then Britneys beaver... The rubber at that level on the tire is much harder than it is if you had 20% more tread left. Harder tire makes for less grip. Now back to our regularly schedule programing.... (Playing some cheesy 70's porn music in the background). This concludes today PSA.
12-03-2007, 01:57 AM
#89
I didn't bother reading the rest of this thread but just a bit of insight about the TL's handling.
I've reached the cars maximum adhesion numerous times trying to slide the rear out. It's hard. Stock, with factory settings it's nearly impossible. You car will more than likely understeer before the back slides.
I was able to get the rear to twitch out only by removing and stripping the entire rear end, trunk and seats, raising the rear psi up by about 4, and on a light decline while slightly on the brakes to move the weight of the rear tires...all that while twitching the steering wheel. It's not a tail happy car.
I've reached the cars maximum adhesion numerous times trying to slide the rear out. It's hard. Stock, with factory settings it's nearly impossible. You car will more than likely understeer before the back slides.
I was able to get the rear to twitch out only by removing and stripping the entire rear end, trunk and seats, raising the rear psi up by about 4, and on a light decline while slightly on the brakes to move the weight of the rear tires...all that while twitching the steering wheel. It's not a tail happy car.
12-03-2007, 06:49 AM
#90
One of the primary purposes of the VSA is to induce understeer, which will slow the car, and reduce the tendancy to skid. This is a "safe" mode, and it is much safer than to oversteer. What the VSA cannot do is account for bald tires. Your VSA did exactly as it was designed to do. It did not cause you to steer into a tree.
Maybe you have a few extra dollars to spend on a good set of tires?
You obviously have the time
Maybe you have a few extra dollars to spend on a good set of tires?
You obviously have the time
12-03-2007, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by vincethe1
...but since i ran straight into the curb my tires ran over it instead of actually hitting it...so the suspension is in place and it's fine, drives normally, alignment isn't off...so that's good.
He did no damage to the tires because it hit the curb straight in with the wheels pointing to the front.
I would have thought he would be full locked left or right depending on the direction of the turn & hit the curb with the outside edge of one tire & the inside edge of the other.
12-03-2007, 08:56 AM
#92
~Da Nocturnal Cheetah~
Originally Posted by KJSmitty
This is why I don't respond to many of these threads. Most of you guys - of all ages, judge this kid for doing something that you/most of us do daily.
He took a corner at 15, maybe 20mph and slid into a curb/tree. Sure the way he described his evening of "driving" sounded stupid/childish, but what resulted in him hitting the tree is something many of you chat about all the time - spirited driving. It wasn't some hideous, stupid, crazy, reckless maneuver...
When you're done judging him think about it - It was a 15 mph corner in the rain with bald tires. Nothing more. Could he have hurt or killed someone? Sure, but think about some of the places/driving you have done in the past/present. Luck and Gods grace has much to do with what does or could have happened - be thankful for that.
I'll guarantee if that's all I did when I was his age, I would have been a driving saint and my folks would have slept more hours each night...
HAPPY HOLIDAYS all!!
He took a corner at 15, maybe 20mph and slid into a curb/tree. Sure the way he described his evening of "driving" sounded stupid/childish, but what resulted in him hitting the tree is something many of you chat about all the time - spirited driving. It wasn't some hideous, stupid, crazy, reckless maneuver...
When you're done judging him think about it - It was a 15 mph corner in the rain with bald tires. Nothing more. Could he have hurt or killed someone? Sure, but think about some of the places/driving you have done in the past/present. Luck and Gods grace has much to do with what does or could have happened - be thankful for that.
I'll guarantee if that's all I did when I was his age, I would have been a driving saint and my folks would have slept more hours each night...
HAPPY HOLIDAYS all!!
C'mon man...you can't be serious saying that? That something a kid is known, or we have even been known to do, that could possibly bring about that result, should be dismissed, condoned or perpetuated because it didn't result in that? So in that regard, is it ok for us to tell a kid that having a drink and getting behind the wheel is ok because we did it a time or two and managed to navigate our way home without injury to ourselves or to others? By the way, the reason drinking and driving was used, is because that is something also that a lot of people could bash someone for doing, that they themselves had probably done, but doesn't change that they SHOULDN'T do it, and yes, if a youngster did it they should let them know not to. because we all know that just because it din't happen that time, it can happen. As I said before, while it certainly is not necessary to bash, it is necessary to educate. As far as "luck and God's grace"...I believe God helps those who help themselves.
Just like you are saying don't get carried away with the bashing, you shouldn't get carried away either man. I always thought that when we became parents, or of that age, that we were supposed to teach the kids not to make the same mistakes we made, or do the same dumb things we did. Even though we did them ourselves and came out unharmed.
And before you fly off the handle getting overly-defensive about what I just said as well, take the time to consider it was meant to be informative, and not judgemental. I never called you names because you said it, just thought it was the wrong message to send. If nothing else, you can tell by his responses that he will do it again, and he thanks you for being "supportive".
OP, I don't think you are a bad guy, just a guy who made a bad move. There are a lot of people dead and/or in jail because their "intent" was not the final result of their actions.
Case in point: I read a story in the newspaper once where a guy plowed thru some leaves with his car, just having simple fun. No harm to the car in doing that. We have all done that right? Only thing was, this time, there was a kid playing in the leaves hiding from his dad...his kid! Be safe all and happy holidays!
I'm done.
12-03-2007, 09:08 AM
#93
~Da Nocturnal Cheetah~
Oh yeah, one more thing. We all do stupid stuff at some point or another. But like Randy Moss when he said he takes plays off, which a lot of other players do as well, but were smart enough to keep their mouth shut about it instead of telling everyone they do, you open yourself up to scrutiny when you go public with it! LOL!
Some things are best left unsaid...
Some things are best left unsaid...
12-03-2007, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
I would have thought he would be full locked left or right depending on the direction of the turn & hit the curb with the outside edge of one tire & the inside edge of the other.
12-03-2007, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by darksom1
Whoa! Anyone who has been a member of this forum for any decent length of time, knows that these types of responses will follow these types of posts. Ok, forget about bashing the kid. I think he understands whether he admits to it or not that he was wrong for doing his "experiment" under such conditions. Judging from his posts, he is going to do what he wants to anyway. This is about what you said. I think you are weighing in too heavily in his defense on that last post KJ.
C'mon man...you can't be serious saying that? That something a kid is known, or we have even been known to do, that could possibly bring about that result, should be dismissed, condoned or perpetuated because it didn't result in that? So in that regard, is it ok for us to tell a kid that having a drink and getting behind the wheel is ok because we did it a time or two and managed to navigate our way home without injury to ourselves or to others? By the way, the reason drinking and driving was used, is because that is something also that a lot of people could bash someone for doing, that they themselves had probably done, but doesn't change that they SHOULDN'T do it, and yes, if a youngster did it they should let them know not to. because we all know that just because it din't happen that time, it can happen. As I said before, while it certainly is not necessary to bash, it is necessary to educate. As far as "luck and God's grace"...I believe God helps those who help themselves.
Just like you are saying don't get carried away with the bashing, you shouldn't get carried away either man. I always thought that when we became parents, or of that age, that we were supposed to teach the kids not to make the same mistakes we made, or do the same dumb things we did. Even though we did them ourselves and came out unharmed.
And before you fly off the handle getting overly-defensive about what I just said as well, take the time to consider it was meant to be informative, and not judgemental. I never called you names because you said it, just thought it was the wrong message to send. If nothing else, you can tell by his responses that he will do it again, and he thanks you for being "supportive".
OP, I don't think you are a bad guy, just a guy who made a bad move. There are a lot of people dead and/or in jail because their "intent" was not the final result of their actions.
Case in point: I read a story in the newspaper once where a guy plowed thru some leaves with his car, just having simple fun. No harm to the car in doing that. We have all done that right? Only thing was, this time, there was a kid playing in the leaves hiding from his dad...his kid! Be safe all and happy holidays!
I'm done.
C'mon man...you can't be serious saying that? That something a kid is known, or we have even been known to do, that could possibly bring about that result, should be dismissed, condoned or perpetuated because it didn't result in that? So in that regard, is it ok for us to tell a kid that having a drink and getting behind the wheel is ok because we did it a time or two and managed to navigate our way home without injury to ourselves or to others? By the way, the reason drinking and driving was used, is because that is something also that a lot of people could bash someone for doing, that they themselves had probably done, but doesn't change that they SHOULDN'T do it, and yes, if a youngster did it they should let them know not to. because we all know that just because it din't happen that time, it can happen. As I said before, while it certainly is not necessary to bash, it is necessary to educate. As far as "luck and God's grace"...I believe God helps those who help themselves.
Just like you are saying don't get carried away with the bashing, you shouldn't get carried away either man. I always thought that when we became parents, or of that age, that we were supposed to teach the kids not to make the same mistakes we made, or do the same dumb things we did. Even though we did them ourselves and came out unharmed.
And before you fly off the handle getting overly-defensive about what I just said as well, take the time to consider it was meant to be informative, and not judgemental. I never called you names because you said it, just thought it was the wrong message to send. If nothing else, you can tell by his responses that he will do it again, and he thanks you for being "supportive".
OP, I don't think you are a bad guy, just a guy who made a bad move. There are a lot of people dead and/or in jail because their "intent" was not the final result of their actions.
Case in point: I read a story in the newspaper once where a guy plowed thru some leaves with his car, just having simple fun. No harm to the car in doing that. We have all done that right? Only thing was, this time, there was a kid playing in the leaves hiding from his dad...his kid! Be safe all and happy holidays!
I'm done.
except the way i described my actions, and my age made it sound a lot worse than it actually is...
as some ppl said, "i would have never posted this"...there's a very good reason, and i know why, but i did it anyways for ya'll's entertainment....if i never posted this it would of been 1 less thread to judge people on. o well.
thing is not that stupid shit don't happen to older ppl, they just never tell anyone about it cuz it'll make them sound like a dip, and it's completely true, not arguing about that...about admitting it.
i'm just saying that i don't care what ppl say here, i don't know them, i basically did it for my own entertainment and to see the outcome.
btw to all the environmentalists...the tree is fine lol
12-03-2007, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by aznbo187
I didn't bother reading the rest of this thread but just a bit of insight about the TL's handling.
I've reached the cars maximum adhesion numerous times trying to slide the rear out. It's hard. Stock, with factory settings it's nearly impossible. You car will more than likely understeer before the back slides.
I was able to get the rear to twitch out only by removing and stripping the entire rear end, trunk and seats, raising the rear psi up by about 4, and on a light decline while slightly on the brakes to move the weight of the rear tires...all that while twitching the steering wheel. It's not a tail happy car.
I've reached the cars maximum adhesion numerous times trying to slide the rear out. It's hard. Stock, with factory settings it's nearly impossible. You car will more than likely understeer before the back slides.
I was able to get the rear to twitch out only by removing and stripping the entire rear end, trunk and seats, raising the rear psi up by about 4, and on a light decline while slightly on the brakes to move the weight of the rear tires...all that while twitching the steering wheel. It's not a tail happy car.
but i make my own artificial oversteer....it's called the e-brake...which by now is just as worn out as my tires lol
12-03-2007, 09:39 AM
#97
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i'll just ignore tha ranters...cuz callin em names like they do me is pretty immature, they can have it their way 4 all i care, i have no time to bother with someone that has nothing logical/informative to say.
12-03-2007, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by vincethe1
very wise, very true, and i agree....
except the way i described my actions, and my age made it sound a lot worse than it actually is...
as some ppl said, "i would have never posted this"...there's a very good reason, and i know why, but i did it anyways for ya'll's entertainment....if i never posted this it would of been 1 less thread to judge people on. o well.
thing is not that stupid shit don't happen to older ppl, they just never tell anyone about it cuz it'll make them sound like a dip, and it's completely true, not arguing about that...about admitting it.
i'm just saying that i don't care what ppl say here, i don't know them, i basically did it for my own entertainment and to see the outcome.
btw to all the environmentalists...the tree is fine lol
except the way i described my actions, and my age made it sound a lot worse than it actually is...
as some ppl said, "i would have never posted this"...there's a very good reason, and i know why, but i did it anyways for ya'll's entertainment....if i never posted this it would of been 1 less thread to judge people on. o well.
thing is not that stupid shit don't happen to older ppl, they just never tell anyone about it cuz it'll make them sound like a dip, and it's completely true, not arguing about that...about admitting it.
i'm just saying that i don't care what ppl say here, i don't know them, i basically did it for my own entertainment and to see the outcome.
btw to all the environmentalists...the tree is fine lol
Yes, because I know I speak for everyone here when I say NOTHING "entertains" me more than knowing there are people out there that openly admit to driving reckessly for fun. It thrills me to no extent knowing that the next time I get on the road there are people out there that do crazy and stupid things just because it was "fun." It's completely titilating to know that my life could be taken at any given moment because someone though it'd be "fun" to skid around with bald tires with his VSA turned off.
Actually, I think this does us all a service to know that we should be especially careful when driving around Armory and Torch in Northern Las Vegas because you might be out there testing the ABS by pulling the fuse or testing the airbags by ramming your TL into a block wall or oncoming traffic.
12-03-2007, 10:03 AM
#99
Originally Posted by vincethe1
very wise, very true, and i agree....
except the way i described my actions, and my age made it sound a lot worse than it actually is...
as some ppl said, "i would have never posted this"...there's a very good reason, and i know why, but i did it anyways for ya'll's entertainment....if i never posted this it would of been 1 less thread to judge people on. o well.
thing is not that stupid shit don't happen to older ppl, they just never tell anyone about it cuz it'll make them sound like a dip, and it's completely true, not arguing about that...about admitting it.
i'm just saying that i don't care what ppl say here, i don't know them, i basically did it for my own entertainment and to see the outcome.
btw to all the environmentalists...the tree is fine lol
except the way i described my actions, and my age made it sound a lot worse than it actually is...
as some ppl said, "i would have never posted this"...there's a very good reason, and i know why, but i did it anyways for ya'll's entertainment....if i never posted this it would of been 1 less thread to judge people on. o well.
thing is not that stupid shit don't happen to older ppl, they just never tell anyone about it cuz it'll make them sound like a dip, and it's completely true, not arguing about that...about admitting it.
i'm just saying that i don't care what ppl say here, i don't know them, i basically did it for my own entertainment and to see the outcome.
btw to all the environmentalists...the tree is fine lol
12-03-2007, 10:59 AM
#100
i am not condoning what the kid does, but we have all been 20 before. you know how hard it is to convince them their actions were retarded and could possibly injure somebody. that being said, it sounds like the OP is destined to learn the hard way. hopefully no one will get hurt. We can only hope he will grow up sooner than later.
12-03-2007, 01:31 PM
#101
2004 SSM/EB/5AT/Navi/RSB
It looks to me the main factors that contributed to this (besides reckless driving) are...
1. Bald tires: The water had no where to go to allow a decent contact patch.
2. The dip is smooth cement so it's slicker than the asphalt when wet.
3. The dip holds deeper water, so there was more there to keep the tires from making grip.
4. Leading into the dip is a downward grade that, at 10-20 MPH, would further unweight the front tires causing a lack of grip.
The VSA had nothing to do with this incident. There is only so much the system can do with the limited amount of grip given to it. The driver's actions and the terrain at that specific location removed virtually all of the tire's already meager grip and placed him into that tree.
I hope he fixes that support pole for the tree's owner. Props to the OP, though, for admitting to the stupidity. As has been said, many of us do stupid stuff and we're lucky when it doesn't go wrong like this did.
1. Bald tires: The water had no where to go to allow a decent contact patch.
2. The dip is smooth cement so it's slicker than the asphalt when wet.
3. The dip holds deeper water, so there was more there to keep the tires from making grip.
4. Leading into the dip is a downward grade that, at 10-20 MPH, would further unweight the front tires causing a lack of grip.
The VSA had nothing to do with this incident. There is only so much the system can do with the limited amount of grip given to it. The driver's actions and the terrain at that specific location removed virtually all of the tire's already meager grip and placed him into that tree.
I hope he fixes that support pole for the tree's owner. Props to the OP, though, for admitting to the stupidity. As has been said, many of us do stupid stuff and we're lucky when it doesn't go wrong like this did.
12-03-2007, 02:04 PM
#102
Vince, as I metioned before, you really are "the one". Unfortunately there are many out there like you.
I'm glad you're a member here. This board is full of knowledgeable and experienced people. Unfortunately you disregard a lot of what they say because "they're older". I guess that somehow translates into "less experience" in your world.
One day you may understand that the replies on here are not meant to bash you but rather to help you learn. You'll get all the help you need only when you realize you need all the help you can get.
I'm glad you're a member here. This board is full of knowledgeable and experienced people. Unfortunately you disregard a lot of what they say because "they're older". I guess that somehow translates into "less experience" in your world.
One day you may understand that the replies on here are not meant to bash you but rather to help you learn. You'll get all the help you need only when you realize you need all the help you can get.
12-03-2007, 06:15 PM
#106
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Originally Posted by S PAW 1
Continues to amaze me how the "mods" can move certain subjects into car talk which directly address Acura subjects, and yet they allow this to remain. I don't see the consistency
12-03-2007, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jzacuto
It's completely titilating to know that my life could be taken at any given moment because someone though it'd be "fun" to skid around with bald tires with his VSA turned off.
12-03-2007, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bluenoise
I hope he fixes that support pole for the tree's owner.
i think for what i pay for the community they can deal with that.
12-03-2007, 07:06 PM
#109
WDP Director of R & D
Originally Posted by darksom1
And before you fly off the handle getting overly-defensive about what I just said as well, take the time to consider it was meant to be informative, and not judgemental. I never called you names because you said it, just thought it was the wrong message to send. If nothing else, you can tell by his responses that he will do it again, and he thanks you for being "supportive".
It may disappoint you - but "flying off the handle" isn't required.
My response is by no means "condoning" or "supporting" this young mans actions. It is on the other hand a response that merely states "why" I do not "condone or support" the specific bashing in this thread . I fully agree with "educating" and or mentoring him, yet name calling and all the other rhetoric is what I am against. That is my only "message."
Cheers
12-03-2007, 07:11 PM
#110
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Originally Posted by S PAW 1
Continues to amaze me how the "mods" can move certain subjects into car talk which directly address Acura subjects, and yet they allow this to remain. I don't see the consistency
it continues to amaze me that members will bitch about mods without fucking PMing them.
You think we are everywhere? we dont LET anything remain. I promise you I havent seen this stupid thread. now that i have believe me its over.
and we dont move anything to car talk. if you read what we say you would know that.
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