serbj

iTrader: (1)

I've been driving 5AT for a while in sport shifting mode and learned the following shift points:

1st gear: 0-40mph
2nd gear: 15-70mph
3rd gear: 25-105mph
4th gear: 35-135mph
5th gear: 50-150mph

[Here in "3rd gear: 25-105mph," for example, the first velocity (25mph) indicates that 1) for fuel economy, you should shift from 2nd gear to 3rd gear at 25mph; 2) you should down shift from 3rd gear to 2nd gear if the vehicle's velocity goes below 25mph (I decide this by listening to the drone).

The second velocity (105mph) indicates engine red line velocity in 3rd gear. That means in racing, we have to shift from 3rd gear to 4th gear at 105mph.]

What do you guys think of these shift points? Are they correct? Any inputs will be appreciated.

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

hmm idk man...I see some gray areas in your theory/logic.

do your shifts ever lunge at those speeds?

serbj

iTrader: (1)

The point is that, in sport shifting mode, it's easy to decide when to shift if we are racing: just shift at the red line.

Yet in daily driving we want to know the right point to shift up and when can we down shift for engine braking / exiting apex.

CubanLynx84

iTrader: (2)

1st- 0-19mph
2nd- 20-30/32mph
3rd 30/32-40/45mph

If I'm correct this is what the manual lists for the type s, I could be wrong but when I do drive it ss mode those are the "natural feeling" shift points thru the rpm band.
Shark, do you concur?

If you're talking about racing thru the shifts Which I gather from you posting those speeds I think thats a bit harsh on the tranny and as Shark did mention those shifts might be lunging the car too

serbj

iTrader: (1)

Umm, very interesting!

So what are the best shift points at rpm??

JJH

iTrader: (1)

Why would that be harsh on the tranny?

CubanLynx84

iTrader: (2)

Although the tl does have ss mode it doesnt mean to drive it just exactly like a manual. I've noticed it to be a bit harsh in the lower gears

I hate cars

Shifting at too low of an rpm causes a lot of heat from the torque converter. Shifting at too low of an rpm in an auto will not reduce rpms but it will reduce mechanical leverage, increasing load on the engine. I don't have the time to elaborate.

serbj

iTrader: (1)

Then what is the best way to drive AT in sport shift mode: daily driving? Spirited driving?

serbj

iTrader: (1)

I also find an old thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/sport-shift-mode-644691/

I hate cars

MT is the biggest troll this board has ever seen. He knows nothing about cars.

serbj

iTrader: (1)

Besides engine braking, the only could-be stress I've noticed in sport shift mode is when I suddenly accelerate in the 2nd gear.

In auto shift mode, if I'm in the 2nd gear and release the gas paddle, ECU will upshift. Then when I depress the gas paddle hard, ECU shifts back to the 2nd gear, and the car mildly starts to accelerate.

However, in sport shift mode, if I'm in the 2nd gear and release the gas paddle, it stays in the 2nd gear. Then if I depress the gas paddle hard, car will abruptly accelerate. Will this put a lot of stress on the transmission?

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

I rarely do SS. I just shift before 3K or let it auto shift gear before it past 3K.

BeezleTL85

I don't know about all those number but I've only noticed mine shifting for me when I'm off the peddle and reach 1000rpm, then it will downshift. I've redlined 1st a few times cause I forgot I was in ss, it wouldn't shift up for me. I normally accelerate and shift at 26-28rpm but it shifts at 3-31rpm due to reaction time I guess. I usually take 3rd up to 75 when I'm initially getting on the highway. It's so quick but I don't think I can get to 105 before I redline. I know I've hit redline but I think I was closer to 90, but I was more focused on the road rather than the speedo.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

3rd gear can do up to 109mph on 07-08 TL, base or type s, because they have the same transmission. 04-06 TL has a slightly different ratio so I cannot speak for them.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Why would anyone shift at redline when racing?
Certainly not in the power band.

I hate cars

I agree... But in the case of the auto, where the TL falls flat on it's face on the shift to 4th, it's worth it to delay the 4th gear shift as long as possible. The very rare times I've raced the TL I let it shift itself and once it's in third I pull it over into manual and hold it until it's about to bump the limiter. The only time I've raced another 5at Tl, we were dead even until he shifted to 4th and I held it for an extra 500rpm where I put about a carlength on him. For any other gear I agree that shifting at the limiter might not be the best.

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

i hate 4th gear...i drive in SS everytime i'm in my car and always dred getting to 4th.

3rd gear pulls scream and as soon as i hit 4th, KERPLUNK.

so matt, at what speeds/rpms should we be changing gears on the AT?

I hate cars

For mine I just let it shift itself until the 3-4 shift for racing. For daily driving I let it shift itself as well. The factory has it programmed pretty nicely.

The only time I really manually shift is when I'm pulling a hill like the Grapevine where it's miles and miles of steady steep uphill. The factory programming has it stay in 5th but it unlocks the converter. This brings the rpms up but makes a ton of heat from torque converter slippage and it doesn't increase the engine's mechanical advantage. I've found that if I downshift to 4th gear manually on the same hill, it requires less throttle, the converter stays locked, and overall rpms stay the same as 5th unlocked. So you're gaining a mechanical advantage and you're creating less heat.

If you're manually shifting it for daily driving and going for mpg, you don't want to upshift until the rpms start to rise. By that, I mean if you're accelerating steady state and the rpms are holding at 2,000rpm as the car gains speed and the torque converter gains efficiency, once you see the rpms begin to climb over 2,000 (2,000 is just an example) that would be the soonest I would shift even for mpg. Otherwise you're in too high of a gear and you're just slipping the heck out of the converter and all of your mpg is going up in heat through the converter.

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

^thanks for that explanation.

that makes a lot of sense. my mpg is pretty good (29-30 hwy) and i'd like to think i'm shifting correctly while in SS. from the advice you gave, it looks like i am.

i know it sounds crazy but i also listen to my exhaust note while shifting and the roar of the engine. i'm sure i'm not alone here, we can all tell when it's appropriate to shit and not hold gears for days.

thanks again.

I hate cars

That's the one thing I miss about driving a loud car, you don't have to look at the tach. I was lucky enough to drive a newer Viper yesterday and I didn't need the tach at all for normal driving but when it came time to go sideways I was constantly looking at the tach. That's one of those engines that's so hard to tell what rpm you're at by the exhaust note. I remember in my other cars, I could be cruising down the freeway not paying attention and not on cruise control and look at the speedo 30 minutes later and be at the exact same speed. In my stock Tl I'm all over the place if I don't use cruise control because I can't hear it.

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

i know what you mean.

and that's awesome you got to whip around in a viper...i need to find some wealthy friends.

YeuEmMaiMai

if you got pre cat delete and upgraded exhaust, power band definately moves up and you want to shift at the point where the car is back in the power band for the next gear. Running to just before fuel cut does this.

EDIT: for fuel economy let the ECM shift the car.....

MEKO

iTrader: (1)

No way I am auto shifting while racing or doing a run...
its shifts to 3 too early
and the rest...
can't say aything for shifting to 2 since it shifts by itself on 06

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Thought we were talking stock, but even the assumption that HP is raised slightly with the add-ons is flawed. If you preview dyno results you'll see that some stock TL's see max HP at only 6000, not the advertised 6200. So, with this in mind, the only true way to determine the, shall we say perfect shift point, is to put the car on the dyno.

Having said this, the shift points will differ depending on the trans/diff combination and the AT TL's ratios are poor for straight line racing, especially the first to second and third to fouth gear drop which is ridiculous. If you wanted to keep the HP in the power band equal between shifts, you'd need to shift in the 7k plus range, but the TL just doesn't have this ability, so if you want to race, get a M/T.

I hate cars

Lol. I'll agree with that. But my point was that with the huge rpm drop offs due to the more fuel ecnonmy spacing of gears in the auto, sometimes it's best to run it past peak power so it's closer to peak power and doesn't drop out of vtec in the next gear. It's a compromise for sure but IMO it's the best compromise. But what do I know, I think I've had 3 full on "races" in my TL since I bought it in Dec '05. My races have always been kind of a joke and never a serious race, I have other cars for that. Just taught a new Audi A4 a lesson though. It was weird to have him gain a little on me in second and from the middle all the way till it bumped the revlimiter and I backed out in 3rd I was creeping away. 4th gear is the devil.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Matt I agree.

4drviper

+1

our TL's electronically limited at 150 not "drag", right?