jkjjpc

After several months of research and testing some of the $50,000 range luxury sedans, I'm now wondering what they offer that the TL does not. I have not driven the new TL (plan to do that tomorrow), but I thought I would ask the "experts" on the TL forum what you see as the pros and cons of the TL with Nav versus the following cars that I have been considering, all of which are significantly more expensive:

530xi
A6 quattro
E350 4matic
M35X
RL

Now, one obvious difference if that all the above cars are AWD. I live in DC and need to be able to get to work on those days when the roads are bad here (and DC drivers are the worst when it snows a few flakes). So, I've been limiting my search to AWD cars since the base for the cars listed above with the exception of the A6 is RWD, which would be a problem. I figure the TL might be good enough in the snow for DC, I've had FWD cars in the past and did OK.

The TL with Nav is about $35,000 before any negotiations, the RL without the Tech package is about $50,000 but can probably be had in DC for about $45,000-46,000 (06). A comparably equiped 530xi is about $59,000 and can probably be had for about $55,000 (I don't have time to do European Delivery, which would save another $4000). The E350 4matic is about the same as the BMW, but discounts are steeper and it can be had for about $52,000. The M would be about $52,000 and I'm not sure what they are going for here in the DC area (by the way, am I the only one who has driven the M35x that found it to have excessively loud engine exhaust noise?).

So, besides prestige, I'm trying to sort out what I get for the extra $$$$$. One feature of the RL that I'm really attracted to is the Nav traffic, that would be great in DC where the beltway can go from smooth sailing to a parking lot in the time it takes me to get off for 10 minutes and pick up my son from daycare.

OK, I'll stop and sit back for responses. I plan to post a similar post on the RL board since that is the leading contender of the more pricey options (though I started this process intent on the BMW).

John

DMZ

All things considered, your best bet might be the RL if real time traffic and AWD are most important to you. If you consult the Consumer Reports frequency of repair records, the RL would also likely be the best bet on the list as well. On the other hand, the TL is no slouch, has a more sporty feel to it, and you can save some $$$ if FWD is good enough.

For what its worth, the TL is made in Ohio and the RL in Japan....HINT...HINT.

Actuary

TL will beat all cars you mentioned in every category except Handling.

Now, do you take your car to racetrack and bet money regularly? Unless, I don't think it matters.
(If I ever get admitted to race track for free, I wouldn't run my car to beyond ability. I didn't buy this car for that. There is corvette for that purpose)


Now, do you find Nav traffic + adaptive lighting and stuff attractive? Then your answer is RL. Especially if you have considered that amount of money already.

dezzzmond

Acura has a lot of features at an affordable price. All the other Euro brands get kinda pricey when it comes to options. I have friends that drive all the cars you have listed up there, they still love how my TL looks inside and out.

TCMS

I think that you will feel the TL inferior in the driving category in comparison to a large part of your list. I do believe that an ASPEC package would change that dramatically, however you wont (normally) get that luxury.

Keep in mind that it's cheaper for a reason and decide what does it for you.

If I were spending 50k on a car I would not have settled for my 40k TL Aspec.

TCMS

Might I add, that for the class the TL is in, there isnt another car that I would choose over it if I were to do it again.

colberto

I haven't seen the RL traffic monitoring first hand, but I think the XM traffic channels are pretty effective at giving you traffic information on demand...and it keeps your eyes on the road! Sure some cool graphics on the Nav screen would be neat...but maybe not 15K neat.

Obviously everyone has different value curves based on their incomes etc. You may find the 50K+ vehicles you mentioned to be in your sweet spot. For me...my sweet spot was the mid 30's...and for value at this target I selected the TL. It all somes down to what you want to spend!

Good luck!

SouthernBoy

Here's what I do. I have my '04 TL manual which I never take to work on snowy or icy days.. it stays safely in my garage for its protection. Instead, I take my Ford Ranger pickup truck to work.

So for the money you're talking about, you might consider two vehicles: a TL and a "messy day" vehicle. That way, you're protecting your baby and having it both ways.

Incidently, I live just outside of Northern Virginia and work in Fairfax.

mickey3c

get an M45 was rated above the RL

K-80-123

I owned a 2004 Lexus LS 430...very nice car smooth tight...really nice inside...but the car did not look very sporty...grandfather looking

I sold the LS and bought the TL very happy with the decision...

tims1448

John,

I was in a similar prediciment as you earlier this year and I chose the TL. I drove all of the cars you listed above. Here are my 2 cents and hopefully they help you out as you make your choice:

1) AWD vs TL. I heavily thought about that being in New England. With that said up in Boston we have had several storms already this year and the TL handled excellent in all of it so far. It came stock with Michelin Pilots, which handle moderately well in the snow. Since you have far less snow down there you should be ok. I do feel for you and the bad drives when it snows down there though.

2) On screen nav. It requires the same XM subscription that will be read to you as you tune into the traffic channel... do not pay the extra money just for this one feature!

3) TL Features. For the money, I dont think the features even come close. The voice command is excellent, the sceen size is very generous and the bluetooth integration is very well done. Add the DVD-A and I truly dont think the competitors stack up.

4) TL Shortcomings. Here are some difference between the TL and the cars you mentioned: The seats are not as nice. A lot of people get the "butt prints" over time, but the '05 and '06 are pretty good. Some people get rattles in the TL, I have not personally experienced this but I know it is an issue for some people.

I guess that is all that I have to say. I came down to the TL vs the M45, but I couldnt justify spending the extra 15K. I decided to go with the TL ASpec in Rodondo Red for the extra wow factor. I have had the car for 10 months and never blink when writing the check for payment. I won't sit here and slam the cars you describe above because they are very nice. I just had trouble dropping an extra 10-15K into a car with in most cases less features and a very similar driving experience.


Tim

1sweetTL

Sadly you may get bad advice on here.
Cuz the guys who wished they had your 50K to spend on a car but didn't are still expecting to get all what they wanted out of the 50K vehicle out of their 35-40K TL.

Bottom line is if you want more bang for your buck, get the TL.
It is well worth the price tag.

But if you have any reservations whatsoever... remember this......
The minute you drive that brand spanking new car out of the driveway of the dealer it just depreciated.

So choose carefully, cuz turning back could cost you dearly.

Good Luck.

ttliang

• TL 6mt is faster than all you listed for one (one could care less). do get the A-spec package IMO.
• RL real time traffic like mentioned above, is only available in certain big cities (I am pretty sure DC metro too) and requires you to tune to XM traffic channel to work. pretty useless unless you drive in NYC and don't care about listening to music at all.
• a lot of people buy cars for "other people around him" subconsciously or not. make sure you are not one of them (i have no problem with that. it's ur $$$). because when you all of a sudden dropped from 50+K to 30+K, it worries me a bit that TL is not "prestige" enough. people can only drive S class MB or Bimmer 7 cuz that's all they drive at his club.
• DC snow will be fine for FWD and RWD with good snow tires. office is probably closed anyway for the ones you can't handle unless ur a doctor or something like that.
• TL can't be beat in its class with all its stuff. but again nobody really WOW me when i drive mine around town. friends will definitely think i am rich if i pay more for equal or less stuff on BMW or MB. you get the picture.
• all in all hard to compare cross-class.

Justy

John,

You've already gotten many good replies and comments.

Here's another thought that might prove less expensive than the other luxury sedans. I also work in the DC area. On an Acura Integra that I once owned, I used a set of 4 winter tires on inexpensive steel wheels during the months of November through March. These winter tires were much, much better performers in the snow than all season tires - obviously not as good as AWD but more than acceptable. Also, you save wear and tear on your alloy wheels.

For those unfamiliar with DC conditions, the roads are usually in good shape the day after a snowfall. I don't need winter tires on my current TLs because fortunately my employer now lets me telework on snowy days.

- 2005 TL, AT, RRP with Parchment
- 2003 TL, AT, NGM with Parchment

Regards!

Brettg

It is a bit silly to compare much more expensive cars to the TL.
The TL is a near luxury car, i suppose that means it does not have a lot of nice options other luxury cars have, but the cost is lower.

TL strong points:
Very good fuel economy for 260 hp,
You can get it in a 6 speed manual,
Low cost,
Reliability,
Very nice style inside and out,
Room for 4 people,
Front wheel drive,
Fantastic engine,
I dont care about the navi, voice command, bluetooth, but many like those features a lot, and they are very good.

TL weak points:

You get to pick 3 things, color, navi or not, auto or manual transmission.

Luxury convienience items limited, no daytime running lights, no auto headlights,
no combined key/remote, no rain sensing wipers, passengers seat is only a 4 way
power adjust (no tilt or lumbar), no power fold rear view mirrors, trip computer is very limited, radio goes off with the engine, and other things,

The ride is on the sporty side, not on the luxury side (many people like it that way).

Dont ask me what else to get at any price except maybe the Jaguar XJ8, or maybe the S type.
The german cars will likely be very unreliable, mine was VERY bad, so if frequent trips to the dealers for repair bother you, skip them.

The other Japanese cars look goofy to me, and I can not stand driving a car I think is ugly, inside or out.

As far as traffic reports, I have been on the beltway and around DC, and its pointless, traffic is a huge mess everywhere!

Brett

boognishloeb

I think it is quite silly to compare the TL to cars outside of its class. W/ that said if you were going to do such a thing the TL would go down w/ a fight and a half. I was only able to afford an entry level luxury sedan. After lots of research and test driving the decision was VERY clear; TL! In your price range your car class is one step higher than us TL owners. I hear the infinii M is an amazing vehicle...I would check out the RL---I would ignore the A6---I would probably look at an 05' 5 series if still available. i would also drive the Lexus LS...yes, yes, I hear it's a grand persons car...If I had the budget that would be #1 on my list.


In conclusion, you can save 16 and a half K and Drive the Best entry level Luxury sedan on the market and buy a TL. Or you can spend your target budget and get a larger car w/ more features and awd. I lived in Denver for 6 years w/ a FWD accord. I drove to the mountains all year long...never had an issue..In those severe conditions it's the driver more than the drive.

ttliang

just drove one 06 LS-430 the other day with that whatever expensive package i forget. OMG yucky IMO. these are what i found.

• very nice leather and quality
• very big and floaty (handles like a boat)
• no power when u want it
• center console rattles on a brand new car.
• dumb & small navi
• very loud wind noise around A & B pilars.
• the sales treated me like a "you don't know jack about cars - millionair". makes me wonder if that's their main customer base all day.

K-80-123

I agree very nice car but short in some areas....the Lexus folks I delt with were very good...also love their loaner car program for any warrenty work.

But the TL for the money is better and I can put 19K in the bank...

SouthernBoy

John;

In looking back over your list, my guess is that you have an automatic transmission in mind. Such a decision will move the TL and the competing cars in your list closer to one another. If, on the other hand, you might be of a mind to consider a manual transmission, the TL will stand out from this list more readily and will make itself more apparent.

I say this not because I had such a strong bias in favor of manual transmissions, but because I have direct and easy experience with both. You see, I own one of each. My TL is an '04 Anthracite/Ebony/6MT/Nav and my wife's (co-owned of couse) is an '05 Satin Silver/Quartz/5AT/Nav. I can drive her automatic anytime I wish when she's not using it or when we go out together and take hers.

The difference between a manual TL and an automatic is real and quite noticable. Again, I am not letting my bias interfere with my assessment here. Should you be of a mind to purchase a car in this class and want something that is entertaining and has a high degree of the "fun factor", a manual TL stands out from your list like you wouldn't believe. Test drive one and see what I mean.

Keep us informed of your search and final decision, please.

SouthernBoy

One other thing. Though I don't drive my TL in snowy or icy conditions (I use my truck), I have to say that as for other foul weather, this is the best car I've ever used. For some reason, it just feels vary secure, capable, and predictable in bad conditions.