ryanstheman

Hello,
I am new to acura ingeneral as i just purchased a 2004 Acura TL 6 speed manual. Under hard acceleration in which i take it to red line (but don't cross) and then shift the clutch gets very stiff. Is this normal? I feel like something is wrong? Its almost like its gets "numb". I checked the fluid and its at MIN....i'm going to add some dot 3 brake fluid just like the manual says just to be safe. Any other ideas as to why it could be doing this? The car also has inconsistent launches like its easy to stall and in general is hard for me to be smooth with it. The gearbox feels fine though throughout. Please advise

THANKS IN ADVANCE

blokhead

See the various slave cylinder check valve removal threads... It is the best mod you can do to your 6 speed tranny.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/113-removal-slave-cylinder-check-valve-734300/

ryanstheman

so is this "heavy feel" in the clutch is normal? The heaviness comes after i've accelerated hard but then when i let off to down shift or as i slow down and i push the clutch in. I've driven 5 speeds my whole life.

01tl4tl

you have a fluid leak somewhere- probable slave cylinder
ck that mod thread for other info

to look for the leak:
peel back the edge of the rubber boot on slave- if fluid is there its a bad seal inside the slave and needs replacement of unit

If not there- look inside car at point a pushrod goes thru from pedal to slave, no fluid should be visable there either or master is leaking

vipernj

you say its a fluid leak? I have posted about this and have received much info on how this is normal on 6 spd TL's for whatever reason.... If it is fluid leak, how does that affect the slave? vacuum wise?

01tl4tl

you said the master res is at min/low level- it should always be at the full line
that means fluid leaked from somewhere and the most likely -based on my experience - is slave

it loses pressure, doesnt have correct pressure as you apply pedal effort- fluid squishes past seal, pressure drops- less actual clutch motion so not full engagement..possible hard shifting

the modification is a different issue than a leak- find the leak and fix it first

ryanstheman

i had acura check the clutch and they said they couldn't find anything wrong with it leaks, nothing. I've also heard that this is "normal" in the tl. I'm getting used to it. I'm pretty sure the fluid level has never been checked before in this car because i get that feeling

01tl4tl

you could replace the clutch hydraulic fluid and see if that helps
same procedure as flushing the brake fluid- which should be done every year
Any moisture in the fluid reduces the units ability

acura wasnt concerned with the level being at the LOW mark?
did the fill res to full mark?

ryanstheman

nope they actually told me to leave it at the low and therefore they didn't add any fluid. I did add fluid and it seemed to help with the heaviness. ALthough their seems to still be a vagueness to it. Having said all that i'm going to have put all that on hold as after only having the car for 2 weeks i rear ended someone tearing the front ALL to pieces doing 3100 dollars of damage.

01clsstock

i just got a 6spd tl as well and am having a problem getting smooth launches. It feels like the clucth lets out very abrutly and very high. Is this normal. ( i only got the car 2 weeks ago as well) no accidents yet though knock on wood

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

maybe u just need to replace the clutch. It doesn't do this unless you get on it right? Go to a hill the biggest one u can find. and try to get car rolling with just clutch and if it slips then u need a new one. Mine does it too when I get on it, it like "sticks" and feels heavy. Need to be replaced.

dbqkqh

Omg, a 2004 Manual TL???
*drool* Wish mine was manual.

01tl4tl

NOTE- his car is now in the crash shop and not able to do any testing for a while~

Adding fluid to the res wont change the pedal feel!!!

ryanstheman

mine has NO slip what so ever because i'm super funny about slipping. I knew that adding fluid shouldn't help with the heaviness but it hasn't been heavy since i did that. It still feels quirky sometimes though. I'm just gonna live with it. The car isn't in the shop yet and is still drivable. I get to drive my Audi A4 again (to be honest i've missed that little car) ...but i love the power my Acura has...why did i have to hit that girl

01tl4tl

the TL has a special pressure plate system that keeps the clutch feeling good right until it completely fails--has happened on here a lot

ryanstheman

ok so your right the fluid didn't help at all....it got heavy on me again today. Also today i noticed that it becoming increasingly harder to shift when the car is cold. Once the car warms up everything gets better. I'm becoming very concerned. But this dern car only has 79,000 miles on it. I just don't understand.

01tl4tl

the clutch hydraulic fluid, and all the hydraulic fluids should have been changed at 60
I would look for the leak inside slave cyl as I described before

If its not leaking- that means the clutch slave has to move farther to push the rod- worn clutch
Its like brakes, fluid low means pads are low- it takes fluid to fill the caliper to push it farther than normal

You may be looking at a clutch- talk to an acura tech and see if it sounds right

01tl4tl

try pumping the clutch once then immedialty again- in the driveway-then shift from N to 1st
does it feel better- shift better?

based on ziner reports those clutches last anywhere from 18kmiles to 100+
How you use it changes its life- stepping on it at stoplights is bad

ryanstheman

Ok i will get it looked it....when i asked people that worked at acura they had no idea...said "they had never heard of one doing that before" That phrase right their is the fastest way to make me mad

ryanstheman

I haven't even had this car two weeks, wrecked it, needs suspension work and the clutch may be going out....ugh this is worse then my audi i can't believe this

piggydog

sorry man but a lot of it you can't blame it on the car. Rubber clutch stop, bunch of bmw guys did this. If yours catches higher than you like take a look into a clutch rubber stop. I did one, and it's by far the best $4 mod ever.

vovka2007

So you saying that if the car has harder clutch than normal than its toasted? I've got a 6spd that is also somewhat hard to drive. The clutch just engages so quick. I'm used to it now, but when others want to try my car, they just cant master it. So is it a bad clutch? Doesn't seem to be slipping though.

SouthernBoy

Add to this a host of other really bad habits such as holding the car on a hill with the clutch, rocking back and forth with it while waiting for a light to change, improper downshift, riding the clutch, and on and on and on.

As for expected life? Providing the operator knows how to properly operate a manual transmission, there are no unforeseen mechanical problems or failures, no abusive use, and the owner doesn't live in a city like San Francisco, one should expect in excess of 200,000 miles from their clutch assembly.

01tl4tl

do you really believe that acura used a part good enough to go well past 100? let alone 200
and the very best of everything?????
their whole mentality is built around the every 100 servicing-replace all replaceable parts
and by 200 it should have been crashed and recycled~

I cant say that a harder pedal is definete disc wearout but its a good signal of it
assuming hydraulics ck out ok
The TL pressure plate keeps it from feeling funny-maybe reduces slipping too,,right up until the day it dies
Read the horror stories here on azine about it

SouthernBoy

I think the question would be more along the lines of, "do you really think that a properly operated manual transmission is only capable of returning 100,000 miles of usable life"?

If I can't get at the very minimum at least 100,000 miles from my '04 TL's clutch assembly using the techniques of which I have written so much about on this and other sites and which does not suffer some premature failure, then yes, I would certainly suspect what you have said to be true. Hopefully it's not.

Several years ago, I read about a '92 Integra (I'm pretty sure that was the year), that had 315,000 miles on its original clutch assembly and the driver virtually mirrored what I do on a normal and regular basis. And it was still going strong. So unless Acura has taken a serious nosedive for the worse, I hope to be in good shape for a long time to come.

01tl4tl

yes- lets all try to pretend that corporations are looking out for us--

when they shave off every dime of quality possible---like the brakes/rotors on a standard TL- for the last 25 years same garbage brakes!

ryanstheman

Ok so i changed the way i was driving the car. I stopped downshifting all the time and also made sure to not leave the clutch pushed in all the time at stoplights and stuff. It actually seems to be MUCH MUCH better. We will see what happens.

SouthernBoy

Downshifting is Ok as long as it is done correctly. If this is what you do when you downshift;

o Remove your foot from the throttle and depress the clutch pedal.
o Shift into the chosen lower gear.
o Start slowly releasing the clutch.

you should avoid downshifting as much as possible because this is not the correct way to downshift.

SouthernBoy

Most corporations do look out for the consumer either directly or indirectly. With large corporations, this is less noticeable than with small ones or with small business where consumer ire is felt more quickly and directly. Problems increase where there is a cartel-like environment or where there is no real competition to control "bad" companies.

DJANZ07

No body knows anything on here , I had three honda's in manual already and by far the most difficult one to operate shift etc is my TL.. To me it I can compare the tranny to a 1999 camaro v-6, becasue its not very smart. The around town driving will mess your day up because 1, 2,and 3 gear are just so heavy!! I already had 3rd gear replaced and I only have 50,000 miles. On leaving a red light someone that is right behind me almost smashes into my rear end every time becasue it takes me so damn long to get past 3rd. Not a smart choice unless you are a real hardcore driver trust me!! Stick with the auto its so much nicer of a car for every day driving!! Or if you really want a stick that bad do your self a favor and get a 4 banger, possibly turbocharged!!!

SouthernBoy

One man's opinion and just a word to the wise. You opening sentence is not likely to ingratiate you to others who have taken the time and effort to offer suggestions to the OP.

Most everyone on this site has had enjoyable experiences with their manual transmissions. My '04 as over 72,000 miles and has never had an issue of any kind with either the transmission or the clutch assembly. If you're having problems with your clutch or tranny, we hope you get it fixed. But don't blast others who not only enjoy their manuals, but who have no problems with them whatsoever. Personally, I will not even consider the purchase of a car which is going to be my personal driving machine unless it comes with a manual transmission. I would no more buy an automatic for such a car as stick my head in a fire. Just makes no sense to me. But I am not about to suggest to others that they follow my lead. That's their decision and theirs only.

ryanstheman

That is exactly how i downshift.... so that means i'm doing it correctly? Your last line there threw me off....Also my dad brought up a point and said that because i girl drove the car before me (not a sexist comment at all) and i know she didn't downshift that a change in the way the car was driven could change and or hurt the clutch. Granted he speaks on this from experience just because of his older car experience but that doesn't mean that new cars are like this

DJANZ07

This is not the "real way to down shift," listin I m not trying to knock you at all, but I am also pretty sure that you have to when down shifting tap the gas a little before droping the car into gear.. This evens out the shift and the car does not jump when down shifting. I believe it is known as double clutching!!! It works really good for me all the time but just a little tap noting to hard, especially on the higher gears.

SouthernBoy

No, if you are doing what I described, like I said, this is NOT the correct way to downshift. It is, however one way to downshift. What you are doing by downshifting like this is putting extra wear on your synchronizers and a lot of extra wear on your clutch (specifically your friction disk, pressure plate, and flywheel). What you want to learn to do is to double clutch. Do not confuse this with rev-matching because they are not quite the same thing. While you do rev-match when double clutching, you want to take it one step further. This is the correct, as in best which means least injurious to your clutch, method to use. (NOTE: This example assumes a downshift from 4th to 3rd gear).

o Raise your foot from the throttle.

o Depress your clutch pedal and begin your shift from 4th to 3rd gear.

o As you enter the neutral gate, pause and blip the throttle while at the same time, releasing the clutch some (or all) to engage the transmission input shaft.

o Depress the clutch pedal again.

o Complete the shift to 3rd gear.

o Release the clutch.


If you do this right, your downshift will be seemless with no jerking or bucking, and if you had a passenger on board, he would be oblivious to your downshift. When you blip the throttle in the neutral gate, that is generally referred to as rev-matching if that was all you were to do during the shift. What this will accomplish, with practice, is to match engine speed to wheel speed where it will be in the lower gear once full clutch engagement is obtained. This significantly reduces clutch component wear.

By taking it a step further and releasing the clutch some, or all, when doing the throttle blip, you are forcing the transmission input shaft to speed up. When done correctly, this will significantly reduce wear on your synchronizers. This is called double clutching.

As I said, you need not do any of this in order to perform a downshift. However by not doing it, you will shorten the life of your clutch friction components and your synchronizers. I don't know about you, but I rather like the idea that I can do something that will go a long way in saving me a lot of money and keep my car out of the shop for clutch and/or transmission work. That plus the fact that it is nice to know one can do something that most people who drive a manual know nothing about.

Questions? Please feel free to ask.

SouthernBoy

BTW, your dad is not correct with this. The only thing that is going to hurt your clutch is some sort of abusive operation. As always, I am open to hear the reasoning for this statement.

piggydog

my prelude's clutch and manual tranny is going on 230k miles, imo honda makes good MT, the autos are another story. The TL MT was a bit weird to get adjusted to but each clutch is different just takes some adjustment on your part. I can't complain. BTW it is hydraulic but is adjustable.

phee

iTrader: (5)

sounds like a master cylinder leak. check to make sure the lines are tight and bleed the fluid and put new stuff in. enjoy

also, out cars have a self adjusting pressure plate. but this wouldnt cause the pedal to get very hard. in fact, the pedal should always be hard. very heavy in fact compared to other 4 cyl mt's ive driven by honda.

remove the checkvalve as well.

what your dad said has nothing to do with the clutch wear.

ryanstheman

well dang i can't believe i've been doing it wrong all these years and no one has corrected me. That would also explain why my 5sd mustang now is incredibly hard to shift and the clutch chatters. But anyway i'm gonna try what southern boy suggested or otherwise just not downshift at all. THANKS FOR THE INFO....when i get the new front end put on the car i'm gonna take it to acura to check for leaks. I'm not sure where do i find the master cylinder? I know where it is on my mustang but not on this car.

SouthernBoy

Take your time and don't take shortcuts if you really want to learn how to do this right. Expect to experience a bit of jerking while you learn how to time your downshift along with the correct engine speed in order to complete the downshift smoothly. You'll know when you've gotten there because when you let your clutch out after completing the shift, it will be so smooth that it will not even feel like there was any sort of clutching action taking place. This is your goal. Trust me, it is obtainable.

Tell me about your Mustang, year, engine, etc. And tell me more specifically about your difficultly in shifting (which gears, under what conditions, etc.). Also more info about your clutch shattering (does it do this primarily in first gear when starting off and feels like it is making and loosing contact real fast?

With what you told me about your Mustang my guesses are: worn synchronizers and a partially scored clutch.

ryanstheman

Ok so my mustang chatters around town while i'm driving usually 2nd,3rd, and 4th gears. Not 5th though. It has done this since 20,000 miles. Know the clutch is slipping when the car is first started. Granted i thrash the crap outta this car. I've already replaced the transmission for hoping the car in reverse in a gravel parking lot. Tore Reverse completely out. The gears that are hard to shift into are 2nd and 3rd.