decided to watch a couple of saved episodes on the directivo. 3/6 was a review of the tl. reminded me how boring it looks in silver/charcoal but the truly annoying thing was the review. every single issue addressed was a positive except for the ridiculous 'if only it had RWD' nonsense. considering the snow we are getting as I speak I am glad its not rwd. but to me it has nothing negative to do with the overall competence of the tl. frankly I am sick of hearing that 'knock'.

the 3/14 [ I may be a day off on each episode. they run on weekends on speed tv ] show was the one that was featuring the 35k shootout. long story short. the narrator literally [I would quote but I am too lazy to go replay the show. I saved it anyway.] said that the tl would have won the shootout had IT NOT BEEN FWD. yes I know there was a long thread about this already posted. still I think its asinine that this car [which by the was looks awesome in abp] does not get the respect it deserves for being the best package that acura currenly offers as well as the best value for the dollars in its segment. perhaps its cold comfort for we owners that we get to enjoy this car everyday. I know I do.

Today in the driving March snow, I appreciated the FWD far far more than not being able to take hairpin turns at 90 MPH in July.

considering how dangerous it can be to drive 'the twisties' at normal speeds why do jackasses do it at high speed anyway?

Well, I suggest anyone that wants a RWD TL just slap some fatter tires on the rear for that RWD look. The TL is just great as a FWD "Sport Luxury".

More than likely, they are in denial that a FWD can have power and handle too.

What's snow?

whewre can i get that show online?

you cant get it online unless they are progressive enough to put up some wmvs on their website. avoid real media like the plague. they are weasel spam bastards.

ive heard that if u dont accel. in the turn Fwd actually go through the turns faster than RWD

seems to me that mine goes fast in all conditions. but I like it anyway.

C & D should have tested all those cars up in NY after one of their 30" snowstorms, then tell me who came out on top. C & D totally missed the boat on the "overall" picture here. ^5 digital. You are right on with this one.

Also, though I'm a car enthusiast and not a "professional" tester, I haven't noticed the torgue steer issue C & D keeps referring to either. Has anyone else?

:smackhead :clown:

U got a fake Rolex too? What Car and Driver stated is true but the TL is still a damn good car. Why the fuss?

You KNEW it was FWD when u bought it right?

I know people are sick of hearing FWD detracts from an otherwise fine car in these sports sedan shootouts.

I appreciate and understand that.

As transportation, this is not a negative.

For me, it was the reason I bought the TL. I drive in a real winter. With snows on the TL, it was very nice this year, and just about over.

That aside, the criticism of the TL's FWD drivetrain is valid in the context of Car and Driver's reviews.

FWD is a compromise at the limit.

That doesn't mean there have not been successful FWD race cars, such as the Acura Integra/RSX in Speed Touring, but you don't see FWD at the ultimate levels.

If you bought your TL to autocross or do the driving school circuit, you probably made a poor choice.

That is not really a valid criticism of a 3500 pound mid-sized FWD sedan. It is not built to win Le Mans.

I happen to believe the TL is the finest FWD sedan around and the best value in a sports sedan today.

Car and Driver needs to stop being so dogmatic about RWD. If it works, it works, doesn't matter HOW they do it.

That would be like C&D whining and complaning about VTEC and how it is "cheating" compared to a car with no variable valve timing.

Its silly, foolish and childish. If it does the job, don't sit there complaining, enjoy it!

Or like C&D making up bogus rankings like "Fun Factor" and "Gotta Have It" factor...DOH!

Next Fall, Watch the British Touring Car Championship on the Speed Channel and you'll see what FWD sports sedans can do. This is some of the best racing on TV. Although the cars are highly modified - they still keep their factory drive wheels and engines unlike NASCAR. Civic SIs routinely be the BMW 325s too.

This snow sucks too - now my car will be in the garage until the cinders are wore off the road and that 6 speed is just starting to loosen up too. I'm starting to let the revs creap over 4K and it's like someone lit a rocket engine. Can't wait till I get it broken in so I can start getting close to that red line.

too bad we dont live in cali like so many of these guys. I have to go to work tommorrow and I hope one of these RWD people dont bang into me.

I have a limited amount of experience with track racing. SCCA in the late 80's and early 90's. All of this experience was in RWD cars. I have owned both RWD and FWD cars. In my opinion torque steer has been the key detractor of FWD, Acura has done a great job of limiting the torque steer in the TL, it is minimal, easily overcome, and only lasts an instant. Aside from that the only disadvantage is on the ragged edge of handling. FWD cars are inherently more stable in truns, but in less agile. If you are not sliding through turns or running a slalom course FWD is an advantage not a disadvantage. The problem with C&R is that they rate cars on how they perform on the track and not on the road. They place verturally no value on erganomics, fit and finish, or 30mph to 80mph times (passing). Take onto account that 99% of drivers will not even come close to pushing any of these cars to the edge of their performance limit, other than 0-60 time, which the TL won in C&Rs review, the only number that counts is price.

It's C&D's way of telling Acura: Look, you're onto something really big here... you just missed one thing: a true sports sedan platform.

They're saying: This car is a grand-slam home run Bimmer 3 & 5 killer if you move the drivetrain to the rear (or go AWD).

Yes, you can get away with smaller, less powerful FWD sports sedans (RSX, TSX, Integra), but at the TL's size and power, the FWD is a limiting factor for driving enthusiasts who currently own Bimmers or similar cars. And C&D will say over and over (and over) again: they are not normal drivers. They are extreme drivers who enjoy exploring the limits of the machines. The current TL will not provide the enjoyable limits in good driving conditions that the G35 or 3 can provide.

This is my read on the situation.

Jon

Yeah, but FWD get a class weight advantage in BTC (as with most sanctioned racing). If you're RWD you have to carry ballast. But, you get a pretty big choice of where you carry it.

Wait, what do you mean the TL is FWD? When did this happen?

Well put. It'd be nice if folks stopped worrying about what others think of their vehicle so much. I realize that it's human nature to a degree to justify a rather large expenditure (my largest to date save education), but let's move on.

I've been reading this forum for several months now, very excited about the TL. I've test driven it four times, and I currently have one in my possession as an over-night test drive.

Unfortunately, after spending about 12 hours with the car, driving in all conditions here in Chicago (snow, dry roads, day, night, stop-and-go, high speed, e.t.c.), I've decided the car is not the right one for me. I just can't get past the FWD torque-steer and overall feel of FWD. Additionally, the steering is too light for my tastes, especially on the highway. In my current car (275HP, RWD), I can make it in/out of my condo parking garage space in one turn. With the Acura (and the M45 I also drove) I have to make a three-point turn, which is disappointing.

Anyway, I just wanted to point-out that some people who are used to RWD or AWD, FWD just can't compare. (I had a FWD once and swore I'd never go back, but I had hoped the TL would convince me otherwise). So, to those of you who claim you can't tell it's FWD, or that it's not a limiting factor, you have to remember that is your opinion, and obviously many people (almost *every* review) despise FWD. I hope Acura figures this out, as even the American "Big 3" have realized it, and are switching many of their platforms *back* to RWD. The TL is a great car overall, I just hope they switch to RWD one day, or at least offer an AWD version.

Thanks to all of you on this forum for providing so much helpful information over the last several months. It looks like replacing my '97 MB E420 won't happen until I get to drive the 2005 Lexus GS when it comes out next January...

Randy in Chicago

For starters, in the C/D test, the TL would have won, hands down, if "gotta have it" and "fun factor" were not included in the judging. Also, Honda has been making an ongoing progression into the realm of safety. They want to be as prestigious(from a safety standpoint) as Volvo in the near future, and however you look at it, a FWD is safer than a RWD. And, finally, the marketing team at BMW said that they make their vehicles RWD for performance reasons, and always will, because if people want safer, all weather vehicles, they can afford to buy another car AND the BMW, and let the bimmer sit in the garage on some days.

~Z

C&D will coninue to bag on the TL until Honda switches it to a a RWD or AWD platform. Having a TL is like having a Hot girlfriend that has Genital Herpes. Looks great but is terrible in the performance deptartment

You guys can justify all you want about FWD. The fact of the matter remains is that FWD is tricky to launch, plows in the corners then loses traction on the inside wheel as you exit the turn. The turning radius sucks especially when the intersection is tight and you end up having to make a three point turn when cars are waiting behind you.

High horsepower motors and FWD trannies don't mix. Honda found this out on their previous versions of the TL. Eventually the tranny will die if the car is driven like it was intended for

People brag about it's snow prowess but really, how many days of the year is there acutally snow on the street where you need it? Maybe 25 out of 365? Most of the time, the snow has been plowed away.

The TL is a great car but it's FWD. You bought it and you have to live with that fact.

hot girlfriend who has genital herpes? I dont think so. its like having a hot girlfriend who isnt the right race for the critics. no one is complaining about it being fwd except car and driver so stop saying stupid things about OWNERS complaining. considering whats out there for true high horsepower machines I am sure that if anyone wanted or could afford the 300+ category they would buy them. why is it that so many of these threads get taken in completely the opposite direction the author intended? its because people think they are reading something instead of comprehending what has been typed. GENITAL HERPES? you must have been on elimidate.

Digital_b,
LOL.
And I couldn't agree more.

Shodog,
"The TL is a great car but it's FWD. You bought it and you have to live with that fact."

Do you really think anyone didn't already know this information? And, you are right...I bought it, I live with it & I have absolutely no remorse.

~Z

I am sure everyone knew this car was FWD. The comment was made because many on this list fail to recognize the faults of the FWD power train. So when C&D bags the TL for having a FWD drivetrain, everyone comes to defend it. Take your lumps and shut up

hey moron learn to read and go pollute some other board. and take some shots for your herpes or what ever you do for that. and shut up.

It's too bad you couldn't think of anything intelligent to say so you had to resort to name calling.

Not being RWD is a legitimate demerit considering that most of the cars in the same class like the G35 and 3-Series are RWD.

Does it being FWD matter in daily driving, no, but Car and Driver is geared to the sport side in these sport sedan comparisons. I experience bump steer and something feeling like torque steer (feels like it but it's not) as well as overcompensated "mushy" feeling in the steering (I'm guessing to torque sense). If I were making a comparison between the 3-Series and G35 sedan, I wouldn't put the TL on top either...IF I was comparing them on their handling characteristics.

Some people make handling and driving characteristics their priority, a priority over price, fit/finish, standard features, size etc...which in my case WERE the priority. Consumer Reports grades cars more like I did...more balance. With Consumer Reports, they put the TL on top of the 3-Series and Infiniti.

thats why in the current issue of car and driver people are complaining about the inclusion of the prius as a 10 best. a car that has no characteristics the typical reader cares about.

But it's not always about the car, but what the car represents. The new Prius is really the first mainstream hybrid and 10 years from now when hybrids are very common, people will point the finger at the Prius (not Insight) as the first "usable" hybrid.

The same could be said about the 64.5 Mustang, the Tucker or other cars. It wasn't that they were all that "special", but they represented the first of new classes of autos.

It's as much about influence over the industry as it is performance and value.

if you heard what they said on the replay of the 10 best show on speed tv last weekend you would see that what you said is diametrically opposite of what they said. also read the reader responses in the april issue of car and driver.