partagas

Well, the 3/36 service got me 2 oil changes. The new ones are 4/48, that'll get you 3 oil changes and a pair of wiper blades. But, this is way better than Lexus with $200 each 5k and $450 each 15K. I don't think it's much of an issue with Acura, as I will change the oil myself. The aftermarket support is great. The people on boards are all enthusiasts; they try everything out there; aftermarket people abound. The panache is cool too. Yep, give me a 530i with the performance, handling, steering and interior goodies I want for even $45K and I'll stay.

vtechbrain

The day an NSX is a sport sedan I will eat my shorts after spending a week without a bath!

neuronbob

I finally read the article in full today, having received my copy of C & D. It wasn't as negative as the articles in the same issue on the BMW 530i, on which they basically ragged on the Bangled style and the hobbled and still useless iDrive, and the X3, which they just plain hated. I retract my statement several pages ago about BMW bias, as when BMW f's up, C & D WILL take it to task, and both these cars were f'd up.

The author did spend waaaay too much time, as we have here in our tidy little corner of the world, talking about torque steer and FWD vs. RWD. They probably should have tested a 5AT without the LSD, which they seem to feel subtracted from the handling. I totally agree with their comments on the steering. It IS overboosted and is my only major gripe about this car. Other than that, driving this car is a dream because I don't drive above 6/10s (which, if I did it on a public road, I'd deserve to be in jail or without my license).

By the way, the Barry Winfield, in his Counterpoint, DID like the TL for all the reasons we frequently state on this site...great value....sheetmetal gives it a handsome character....equipment levels are extraordinary....then he talks about how the torque steer is a "fatal flaw". Sigh. What torque steer? And has he driven a blood Maxima lately? Anyway, I'm thankful for the positive comments in the article.

Just my $0.02. I'll go back to driving my car now.

vtechbrain

Hey neuron docs have one of the highest ticket rates, dont kid yourself about never going above 6/10ths.LOL

partagas

Fatal flaw is a bit much. My disappointment with the 5 series is why I'm here. Yes, the Bangling is fatal; the idrive is critical, but the computerized steering with the sport package is damning.

MarkItZero

I am in KC. I have a black/black 2003 Audi A4 Qucstlsattro 6 speed with sport, premium, bose and cold weather package. I have tinted the windows, added the rear sunshade, Lltek exhaust tips and the S4 lip spoiler. The car has 11,300 miles, is in great shape. I am asking 32K for it.

deandorsey

i dont know if this came up already but on the last page of the review inoticed 2 errors...they state the epa gas milage for the 5at not the 6spd they reviewed...also on their epa city bar graph they thow the audi a4q having the best city estimates(i believe it was around 24)--however the city epa for the a4 6 spd is 17mpg...thats all ive found so far......

a

GalantT3

To be honest I think Car and Drive are the most truthful out of all the Car Reviewers. And when it comes to BMW I dont think they favor them they pretty much state the truth, owesome cars but the price is too expensive and not worth it unless its an M series. They also bash it for making a CD a option when it should come standard.

SteVTEC

LOL, some of you guys are reading into these stupid mag reviews way too much to be good for your own health. Chill out and relax and just enjoy the ride. If a mag really pans a car from every possible angle and says it's garbage that doesn't mean it's garbage. You might love it. One person's trash is another person's treasure. Likewise, if they give overwhelming praise to a car and talk about how it's the greatest thing since sliced bread and that no other cars can compare, that is still no guarantee that you're even going to like it in the first place. One person's treasure is another person's trash. If you buy one, you could very well end up hating it. And just because a car is or is not on the C&D 10Best list vs another in the same class doesn't mean that it is or is not worth buying....for you. Anything but that, IMO.

I've owned a car that has been on C&D's 10Best list literally forever and has won darn near every comparison test it was ever entered in in multiple mags. I ended up really not liking the car very much at all, to be polite. Then I tried another car that was largely dismissed and ignored and ended up loving it. For me at least, all this shows is that you need only depend on yourself as far as determining what is and what is not good for you and what will suit your needs best. I let all of my subscriptions expire, but I think I'm going to resubscribe to C&D just because it's a good read while on the throne.

My thoughts on the new TL is that is is an EXCELLENT car. Finally they put the bloody 6MT in it. I probably would have bought a TL-S about two years ago if I could have gotten a 6MT- didn't want the troublesome 5AT. I hope they've fixed all those issues. Anyhow, the car is a great CRUISER, not a sport sedan. From what I've gathered, Acura has positioned the car as a 330i/530i killer, but I think the review is right. It's not a killer, it's an alternative to those that don't RWD. No nose heavy 3500 lb FWD car is ever going to be as nimble as a much better balanced RWD car. I think the Acura marketing spinsters must be running at full steam trying to fool everybody into thinking that the car is something that it is not.

I think the entry-lux market really should be divided up into different sub-segments based on the drivetrain, because it really does define the character of the car. The RWD is definitely sportier and caters to a sportier audience. FWD is more relaxed and a better cruiser and able to handle weather better. AWD is a little of both but much heavier and often lacking in performance unless you have a manual and are doing 6k clutch-drop launches.

When you put the TL in its own element and compare it to other similar FWD cars you really can't get any better than the TL with the Maxima being a lower-cost competitor for those that either don't see the extra value in the TL or don't want to spend the extra money in the first place. The Maxima, which is an almost identical car, does not compete with the 3-series or IS300 or G35. That's what their own G35 is for. The Maxima competes in a different market (large FWD) and the TL ought to be too. I'm not fully up to speed, but if Acura is positioning the TL as 3-series killer I have no idea why. Makes no sense. But that could explain the angle of the review. Acura spinsters spread the hype and C&D responded to it with some ownage. If Acura instead positioned it as a Maxima/I35/other-FWD competitor I think the review would have been much different and much more positive to say the least.

So anyways, buy a car for your own reasons and enjoy it, and if some mag says they don't like it then who cares. They have their own biases and so do you. If you love a car but a mag hates it then all that shows is that their mentality and bias is different than yours so take it like a grain of salt and don't get too worked up over it.


Peace out.

JonDeutsch

One quick note re: Maxima. It's essentially the same price as the TL:

$35,140 with the "Elite Package" (which is every possible feature including NAV, power and heated steering column, and rear heated bucket seats), VDC, sunroof, Xenon lights, XM Radio)

Arguably, it's actually better equipped than the TL at the same price, but I'd say that it's just a different set of features.

In any case, they are actually quite comparable. The Maxima is about 3 inches larger, but other than that, they are quite similar from the spec department.

I wonder what Nissan compares the Maxima to?

Jon

acuraddict

Where and how has Acura positioned this car as 3-series killer? I'm not fully up to speed on this either. I see C&D mentioning this concept, but I don't know where it all comes from. Personally I would never buy a German (or European) car because I think they're too expensive and too costly to maintain, so I'm not concerned with whether or not the TL can "kill" the 3 or the 5 series. But I am curious as to where this all began.

JonDeutsch

It was reported that Acura set out to provide a driving experience similar to the 530i.

That's the extent to which I believe Acura marketing was targeting Germany.

I think that when you look at the price of the TL, a reporter probably feels required to compare it to the 330i as well, since they typically compare cars in the same price band.

That's about all I can figure out.

Jon

SteVTEC

http://www.hondanews.com/forms/acura...h+currentacura

Introduction Section

Throughout the rest of the technical notes they make comparisons to all of the following cars...

- BMW 530i (RWD)
- Cadillac CTS (RWD)
- Lexus ES300/330 (FWD)
- Infiniti G35 Sedan (RWD)
- Mercedes C320 (RWD)
- Audi A4 (AWD)
- BMW 330i (RWD)
- Volvo S60 (FWD)


Hmmm.... If one of Acura's primary targets is the G35 sedan (RWD), then the 3-series comparisons by C&D start to make sense because the G35's primary target is in fact the 3-series. Infiniti's M45 is what goes after the 5-series, and the Q45 the 7-series. Their I35 would be the TL equivalent but that car is currently a lame duck.


Bleh...who knows. Acura is trying to make the TL take on too darn many cars. If they truly want to compete with all of these RWD cars then they really do (IMO) need a mid-sized RWD platform of their own like everybody else. But the TL is still one of the best "FWD class" touring sedans out there.

JonDeutsch

Hmmm... the term "TL" did stand for "touring luxury."

But, at 0-60 in 5.7 and a focus on stiffer suspension for the 6MT, Acura is clearly looking to redefine it as a "sporting luxury" sedan.

One must now wonder why even even kept the name the same?

Jon

paddiwakk

RWD might be as good as FWD (okay or better) in California weather but last nights' snowfall left the highways in Ontario a mess with plenty of Caddys, BMWs and Mercs etc littering the highway ditches, especially on the incline parts of the highway. That, for many of us, is reality - not racetrack stuff. My AT TL with standard tires sailed thru the mess with no problem at all.

XJKEN

Living here in the Cincinnati area I have grown to prefer FWD layouts over RWD. Before I would have Acura go to a RWD platform
with the TL I would rather see AWD.

As for the auto mags like Car and Driver once a car has been on the market for two years it has out lived its usefullness. It does not matter how much they liked the car when it was introduced, after two years its time for a redesign.

Sclass88

... I'd rather see the TL go to AWD before RWD. Hopefully the next gen TL will have SH-AWD...

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

damn this thread is old........

XJKEN

That's OK, so am I.