swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ almost all the places that sell gas have that 10% ethanol in em....

there is only 1 shell gas station in a 25 mile radius of me which sells 100% and it is 20 cents more than the usual gas stations which are around 25-30 cents more than sams....I am certainly not paying 45-50 cents more for pure gas for an extra 0.1 mpg....

dannyz

I stay with Top Tier providers. They're not the only good gas retailers (i.e. BP & Mobil are good too), but they do ensure good quality.

Their marketing says: "TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is the premier standard for gasoline performance. Six of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and Audi recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance."

USA Top Tier Retailers: 76 Stations, Aloha, Chevron, Conoco, CountryMark, Entec Stations, Exxon, Hawaii Fueling Network (HFN), Holiday Stationstores, Inc., Kwik Trip / Kwik Star, MFA Oil Co. Mileage Stations, Mobil, Ohana Fuels, Phillips 66, Quik Trip, Rebel Oil, Road Ranger, Severson Oil, Shell, Texaco, Tri-Par Oil Co., U.S. Oil

http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html

Swoosh only buys two gallons at a time--why listen to him! :-)

(Ok Swoosh, I'm going to try Sams...)

powdbyrice

for those wondering about costco gas
http://www.costco.com/gasoline-q-and-a.html

Jackass

MO state law.

Premium is exempt, although many stations that sell 100% for sure like to charge a premium. The stations also are no longer required to put the 10% notice on the pumps.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

I am offended....I get 5 gallons at a time

haha...but as I mentioned since I log all the parameters that matter to me, and since I have seen no difference in how its running with the different gas, I think its fine to get sams gas....

also, I am running at 168K miles and I got the car when she had 62K miles....not sure what gas was used before but I have been using sams gas for 100K miles....

I do run seafoam (not sure if it does anything but the peace of mind is good)....I run 2 cans of seafoam every 15K miles....

WOW i wasnt aware that premium was exempt...all the gas stations I have been to in MO or KS, have 10% ethanol stickers even on premium gas....

I hate cars

I think some of the manufacturers freaking out over the gas is them trying to put the blame of the DI engines tendencies to seriously gum up on the gas. My guess is they will continue to blame the gas until they find an alternative to traditional EGR and PCV. Luckily EGR is on its way out.

dannyz

Good observations. The top tier guys have a specific standard they meet for detergent quality, which I understand is what keeps the exhaust valves from gumming up. I know this has been a real problem for BMW in the past. This doesn't mean other retailers don't have good detergents, they just haven't agreed to the top tier formula. There is junk gas out there, I like top tier cause I know what I'm getting--it's not worth saving a few cents a gallon and screwing up your engine or MPG.

The only fuel additive I'll occasionally use is Techron by Chevron--I have seen independent test results. I've never tried seafoam, but on Swoosh's recommendation (with a healthy engine at 168K), I may need to try it.

I hate cars

There's rarely if ever a need for Seafoam. Maybe if you have an "event" such as a tank of bad gas or you went 30k on an oil change n or a car that's been maintained well and used too tier fuel, there's never a need for that crap. Especially in the combustion chamber, piston carbon deposits are so low, there's just nothing to be cleaned. People were seafoaming their 15,000 mile TLs back in the day. Any gains are purely in the users head because if there's nothing to clean, it can't make a difference.

DI engines present a new problem since no fuel hits any part of the intake tract. Fuel hitting the intake port and intake valves keeps that area clean in our cars. With DI they have HUGE problems with the intake valves and bowl and port are getting more clogged up by 40,000 miles than I've ever seen with more than 300,000 miles on a port injected engine. The buildup is from oil via the PCV system and EGR. Theyre semi secretly looking for an additive that will survive the combustion process or change into a useful additive by combustion and enter the intake tract as blowby scavenged by the PCV system.

In my opinion the only way to fix the problem is to eliminate the EGR which some are doing. Use a catch can for the PCV. Last, add a secondary port fuel injector for light throttle use.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Matt,

my PCV system is capped off and am running a dump tube as compared to a filter....my EGR is blocked off...I still run some seafoam every 15K miles (just for some peace of mind) and NOT for any GAINS/Increases in mpg or power....

about gas, I feel getting 91oct from a reputed place (top tier or middle tier), you will be fine...

AZP-TL

I use BP premium for the most part since it's the cheapest in my area. Sometimes I use QuikTrip. Never had any issues with either. I've used Shell and Chevron a couple times and noticed no difference in power or fuel efficiency. All the gas pretty much gets piped in from the same couple places and whether or not the additives actually do anything I have yet to notice. I just use some fuel injector cleaner every now and then.

Jefferson Vuong

i feel like i get the best mileage with chevron

I hate cars

Not good, thats a lot of money down the drain. I would do the opposite and not run it for peace of mind, it will do more harm than good. Without EGR or PCV there's nothing that can build up in the intake tract. It's bad to use in the oil as it drastically lowers HTHS and in the fuel system, not necessary if you run premium and you can bet it will lower the octane.

For a street car I would never disable the PCV system completely. You need to evacuate those contaminates and the PCV does it with engine vacuum one one side pulling fresh air through the crank case from the other side. A dump tube gives pressure a place to go but there's no fresh air circulation. I don't want to put your setup down because I know you've put a lot of work into it but I would enable the PCV but with a separator and no more Seafoam.

For what it's worth I change my oil in the other car every 1,000 miles because of no PCV mainly and the meth secondary but that's changing soon. I don't know what oil type you run and what your interval is but I would go no more than 3k with no PCV.

powdbyrice

pardon my ignorance, but I have a hard time figuring out the direct correlation between brands of gas and mpg. it's strikes me as there are far too many variables in play to make an accurate measure.

but assuming you were able to replicate exact conditions, is there a direct correlation?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

HOLY HELL !!!! now that makes a lot of sense....

I will definitely look into a simple catch can....

I used to use Redline 5w20 but recently went back to M1 EP 5W30....OCI is 5000 miles....

maybe I will dump the seafoam and run a catch can....btw about Seafoam, whenever I ran it, I made sure I changed the oil within 100-150 miles of doing seafoam....

Also found this interesting article...so I guess my next mod will be a catch can....another bill coming your way Matt

http://www.redline-motorworks.com/kb_results.asp?ID=8

RenoTL

I agree. So many variables go into calcuating a historical and accurate MPG. Comparing one tank to another is really an apples & oranges game. I have always stuck with tier-one gas. It is worth it to me to spend the extra buck or so on each fill-up.

kpc2593

Living in the southeast I put Quiktrip and Kroger fuels. Shell occasionally. Chevon is always 10-20 cents more.

I hate cars

How does an oil catch can work and why is it beneficial?
Last Updated: 10/15/2010 There is a large debate as to whether or not oil catch cans are worth the money or not. This article is dedicated to providing a very detailed explanation showing why a catch can is highly recommended in direct injection engine applications.

First, let's go over what is currently happening in your engine without a catch can installed. All internal combustion engines that run off gasoline are 4 stroke engines.


This means that the piston has to go up and down a total of 4 times to complete a cycle.


The piston first goes down with the intake valves open creating a vacuum. This draws in the cool dense air for combustion. At the same time, fuel is injected into the cylinder. The intake valves close and then the piston rises up towards the top of the cylinder. This compression creates an immense build-up of pressure in the cylinder. The only things containing this high pressure are the cylinder itself, the piston and the piston rings that seat against the walls of the cylinder. The intake and exhaust valves are obviously closed as well. The pressure is so high that a very small amount of the air escapes around the piston and piston rings into the crankcase. This is called blow-by. The amount of blow-by increases as the engine RPMs rise. Also, an engine with more cylinders will have more blow-by. Obviously not all of the air escapes or else combustion wouldn't take place. A diagram of the 4-stroke cycle can be seen below. Only the first 2 steps are relevant in regards to the catch can.

Inside the crankcase, you have the crank which is turning in the oil pan which is full of oil. This keeps it properly lubricated.
PCV or positive crankcase ventilation is necessary to ensure there isn't a build up of pressure in the crankcase. This would cause the crankcase to possibly crack under the pressure and create a huge mess of oil on the street.
So the PCV system removes the pressure from the crankcase and reverts it back through the intake tract via crank case vents.
This pressure isn't made up of 100% air. It will also contain a very small amount of oil as well since there is so much in the oil pan at a high temperature. This air and oil mixture is then entered somewhere after the intake system, passes through the intercooler (if you car is turbo or supercharged) and then re-enters the combustion chamber (cylinder) through your intake valves to be re-burned. The oil will actually coat everything on its way back to the combustion chamber. It will develop in the intercooler, boost hoses, intake manifold and intake valves. Just on the other side of these valves is where the combustion is taking place where the temperatures are extremely high. This is what actually causes the oil to solidify on the valves. With the oil passing through the intercooler, it can actually coat the cooling fins which will hinder the intercooler's ability to cool the air therefore lowering the efficiency.
The caking on intake valves is only a problem with direct injection engines. For all other engines that use port injection, the gas is introduced before the combustion chamber which means it flows over the intake valves and enter the combustion chamber premixed with the air. This action of the fuel flowing over the intake valves actually cleans the valves from any oil that make already be on there. The oil never has the chance to cake on the valves in port injection engines.

Having oil caked onto your intake valves can cause the following symptoms:

• Knocking
• Pre-ignition
• Loss in power
• Loss in fuel economy

This is mainly due to the fact that the air that comes through your intake system and goes into the combustion chamber won't just be air. It will contain some oil particles which cause the combustion process to be slightly less efficient.
You might ask why do car manufacturers revert this crankcase pressure back into the intake tract? Well, for starters there isn't anywhere safe to revert it to and you can't expel it into the atmosphere because it's not environmentally friendly and is considered to not be street legal.
Another question that arises is why isn't a catch can included from the factory? Well it's pretty simple actually. Most people don't even change their oil (scary but true) so will they think to empty the catch can regularly? The answer is obviously and unfortunately, no.

An oil catch can does just that. It catches or prevents the oil from re-entering the intake tract. A catch can is placed right after the PCV and before the intercooler. This means that a more pure (sometimes 100% pure) air mixture will go through the intercooler and intake valves. A more pure air mixture entering the intake valves means no caking and none of the symptoms listed above.
An oil catch can typically uses steel wool or a baffle system that removes the oil from the air-oil mixture. Higher quality cans use the baffle systems since it is less messy and better at separating the mixture. The oil falls to the bottom of the can where it is stored until the can is emptied.

An oil catch can doesn't add any power or make any cool noises so it is often overlooked when modifying vehicles. However, a catch can will ensure you are always running the most power possible by having a cleaner intake tract free of oil.

Copyright © Redline Motorworks

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ +1 on the website since I thought of it as a reliable source as well....

now i know better....what do you think about these 2 links:

http://www.saikoumichi.com/SPLIT_DC3_page.htm

post#20 on this link:
http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/9668...oil-catch-can/

I hate cars

I don't know another way of saying this but most of those S2k guys know nothing about a PCV setup yet they give advice as if they do.

The catch can should go on the PCV valve (vacuum) side. This will be 90% of the oil vapors. When you go full throttle and your naturally aspirated you may get a tiny bit of reverse flow from the larger fresh air hose. If you feel it's worth it or you spend a ton of time at full throttle you may consider a catch on that side too.

Just don't do what some of those guys were doing and basically routing the manifold vacuum to the fresh air side which is so unbelievably pointless it actually bothers me. They're just looping fresh air from the intake tract and dumping that fresh air through the PCV.

I wish I was able to draw up a diagram of the airflow through the engine and PCV under normal driving and under boost. Once you see how it flows, you can decide exactly what will work for you.

I hate cars

Looking at your links of the dual catch can, that is EXACTLY what you want. Proper baffling and a steel mesh. Two tanks for both the vacuum and fresh air side. It may be overkill but that looks like a very nice setup, the best I've seen. That's something I will probably buy sooner or later, thanks for the link.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ you like the DIY one or the saikomichi one? I am looking into both actually LOL

I hate cars

They both look nice. I was talking about the Saikomichi one before but the other looks nice as well. For some reason the pictures weren't popping up on my phone that day nor were the post numbers.

I honestly don't think the TL needs one on the fresh air side because we don't spin 9,000rpm or spend much time at full throttle where the fresh air comes into play. It won't hurt a thing so do it if it gives you peace of mind or if you track the car and it sees a lot of full throttle time. I know when I took mine off, it was bone dry. An oil with a super low NOACK value like Redline will really help with any vapor coming out fo the fresh air side and even the vacuum side.

If you do it, just make sure to treat the two sides separately. One can between the PCV valve and the intake manifold. One can betwen the large fresh air inlet at the intake tube and the rear valve cover.

You can also just run a breather on one side of the fresh air tank instead of routing it to the intake tube.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

This is exactly what I was thinking of doing...

run 2 catch cans, one between the PCV valve and manifold....and this will be a "closed loop"...the other from the rear head to the catch can and a air filter as compared to running it back to the intake....

PS here is the post which am talking about....I think this guy made a great DIY for cheap:

bbergero1181

I always use shell when available but i did use Mobil and Chevron for a while and it wasn't bad. i filled up with BP the other day and my car felt like it was trying to use syrup for fuel, it was noticeable. i always use 93 octane but i couldn't believe how bad the BP gas was...

Hess wasn't on the list that i saw for top tier gas but i havn't had issues with their gas feeling different the couple times i have used it...

i try to fill up at the same stations once i find a good one with good gas and the results are the same every fill-up.

i have an aunt who always fills with the cheap Costco gas and has killed 3 cats on two different Honda cars...she still remains stubborn to change gas brands.

The other thing i do since there are times of the year i don't drive very much or very far (college student) is only fill half a tank, it saves weight for better pickup and gas mileage and prevents the gas from sitting in the tank for long periods.

DMZ

Shell V-Power IS the ticket. The difference in the throttle response versus any other brand is clearly noticeable.

As for BP, I'll only use them in an emergency situation where I'm practically out of gas. They deserve to be put out of business for what they did to the gulf. I'm still boycotting all their brands which include am/pm and Castrol, and you should too!

Exxon/Mobil can also go fuck themselves. Why is their gas always typically around 10¢ more a gallon than everybody else? They make more $$$$ than any of the other oil companies while gouging us at the pump. Alternatives to Mobil1 are just as good if not better.
.
.
.

antlive

Stay away from Exxon Gas. The detergent clogs fuel injectors.

I hate cars

Hey! That's my livlihood lol. So is Shell for that matter and I don't even get a discount on gas with the company card.

As far as Shell giving better throttle response anything noticeable is very rare and honestly the only way there's going to be a measurable difference is if the ethanol content is changed and even then it's all but impossible to feel a difference. Maybe the other stations are lower traffic and have older gas on average.