Treblig

Has anyone swapped out their 5AT single piston front brake calipers with the 6MT 4 piston Brembo calipers?

captain

Search other threads... this can't be done without significant cost due to mounting points.

New2004AcuraTLman

why don;t you pick up the rotora big brake kit which comes with 2 new LARGE cross drilled and slotted rotors, 4 piston aluminum calipers, high performance ceramic brake pads and stainless steel braided brake lines. The kit cost $ 1495 direct from Rotora and comes in red and blue metallic. It cost me $ 1100 shipped from a connection I had which i cannot divulge but it is on my car right now and it is SWEET! They don;t have it listed on the rotora.com website specifically for the 04 tl because they have not updated the website but the 03TL kit is the same exact fit and you can call them to order the kit and it will fit like a GLOVE.

Greg

Aegir

Yep, a couple months ago some of us estimated the parts and approximate cost to upgrade to the 6MT Brembos. I don't remember the total, but the conclusion was that an aftermarket brake kit was a better option. About the only way to make it cost effective would be if used 6MT Brembo parts were available at a reasonable price.

LVSBB6

There is a Brembo brake kit for 5AT. It might stell be a cheaper way than to go with 6MT brake swap.

New2004AcuraTLman

That kit IS $ 2495! rediculous! Buy the high quality rotora kit for $ 1495 direct and save the cash! It's sweet I tell you. Honestly Brembo kinda sucks arse and there are always problomes with it. It's like paying $100,000 for a mercedes with terrible build quality and reliability problems when you can just get our Car for $ 33,000 and have all the features and more of the mercedes with much higher build quality and reliability and save $66 grand. Do the math, brembo is OVERRATED! Just ask all the 6mt owners how much their brembo setup squeals like a pig

LVSBB6

Does the Rotara from 03TL fit perfectly on 04TL? And do they fit under stock rims without spacers?

Pics would be helpful

EmuMessenger

Where are the pics of your rotoras? I cannot believe how many people diss Brembo these days. Porsche does not seem to mind slapping them on their cars!

caball88

dude you are the first person to say that brembos suck. i have a 6MT and it did squeal in the beginning but went away when it was broken in. but there is no argument that brembo is the benchmark for brakes. they are the leader and supplier for brake technology in just about every motosport racing out there. their product and technology is tried and true backed by years of success. their products are innovative and cutting edge offering new brake systems such composite ceramic brakes. rotora which seems like a pretty decent company but cannot even manufacture ceramic brakes. when you pay for a set of brembos you do pay a little more for the name sake but you are also paying for the R&D they set forth and other companies benefit off of. i do not see alot of other brake manufacturers coming up with new products, just cheaper versions of the same ones.

New2004AcuraTLman

I will say that brembo has come along way in their manufacturing processes but in no way are they better than any other major brand name company for the money they charge. They charge it because they can and sell their "name" for hundreds if not thousands more which in my book is disgusting just because they "can". Also, Rotora DOES manufacture their own ceramic brakes. If you have an unlimited bankroll and it makes you sleep better at night buying the psychological aspect of the big brembo, then they played you like they play everyone else who is willing to spend their money on them and they are HAPPY to take it. I will give credit to them for their engineering and development but give me a break their systems are not that great worthy of the money they ask.

I will post some pic tomorrow and you will SEE what I mean why I say the Rotora kit is HOT and when you see them in person you will fall in love, they are that good. Beautiful does not give it justice and you can;t tell me that brembo can make a better designed kit for nearly a grand more!

New2004AcuraTLman

Good question!. Yes the 03 kit fits PERFECTLY on the 04 TL with the stock wheels in every aspect according to rotora. You can call rotora and ask if it makes you feel better. The kit has been tested and measured on the 04TL and rotora will be adding it to the spec page on their website shortly. IT IS THE SAME EXACT KIT. I happen to have the 18" A-spec wheels and the kit clears everything with tons of room to spare as well in case people wnated to know. I will post pics tomorrow! It took me about 3 hours taking my time to install. It's a piece of cake and if you have a few simple tools, you can do it no problem A 2 ton floor jack placed in the center of the front crossmember will allow you to jack both wheels at the same time as well.

Any other questions just ask...oh and NO I don't work for Rotora!!!! I just bought Cassandra ( my TL) the end of june and wanted to give her a nice upgrade

Aegir

The Brembos on the 6MT are very good. Mine did squeal for a few thousand miles, but I haven't heard a peep in months. The stopping power is great, the braking feel and modulation are exceptional, and they have never faded on me - and I have pushed them pretty hard for extended periods. Brembo has a good reputation and it seems to be well earned.

I do know a couple guys with Rotoras on second-gen TL/CL's and they are very happy with them. They are a good product and seem to hold up to heavy use without any issues.

caball88

i am in no way putting down rotora, just saying its not justified for you to blame brembo for a bad product due to price. if you are arguing price/performance that is another argument. my point is that brembo makes a good product and they back this by years of success and experience in brake technology.

by the way where do you see on rotora's site that they make ceramic brakes? i'm talking about the rotors and not the pads.

LVSBB6

Great to hear! I have a set of Work VS-KF wheels that have more clearance than stock TL rims, I guess the Rotoras should fit under the rims w/o problems. What about the brake lines? Do they fit perfectly as well?
Brake upgrade is my favourite mod, I have Spoon calipers on my Prelude and they work wonders. Can't wait to see some pics installed, host them up asap

New2004AcuraTLman

Ok, I guess I was a little harsh on Brembo. They do make OK products but in no way do they justify the price that they charge when there are many other competitors that make them as well and are just as good if not better for much less. The fact that the brembos on the 6mt squeel like a pig for thousands of miles on a brand new car and THEN become silent is rediculous and downright embarrasing for you and brembo. Since day one of the install of rotora kit, I've had nothing but pure silence and pleasure to stop on a dime.

Just my 2 cents but in this case, you do not get what you pay for with brembo.

New2004AcuraTLman

Yes, the stainless steel braided brake lines fit identically to the stock ones as well. Everything on this kit is a perfect swap! I will post some pics today after I go out and wash her. It is absolutely beautiful out today after all that terrential downpours the last few days due to the hurricane. I will post asap!

captain

The brakes make noise during the break-in period because of the formulation of the pads combined with the stopping power of the calipers. My brakes made noise for the first 1K miles only.

Sounds like New2004AcuraTLman is trying to make himself feel better about buying an inferior product because he couldn't get the real deal... and anything else he says just furthers my point.

New2004AcuraTLman

Sounds like you are just trying to justify buying the 6mt car with brembos that are defective when us 5at guys can have some fun now that the only one's on the block with high performance brakes are not just YOU any longer. Sounds like jealously and 5at TL envy to me. Oh by the way, you can't even swap out those for rotora without major madification so you are stuck and can't even have anything else! I'm sure alot of people are very content with that because they like brembo and would never think of changing them but it is NICE to have OPTIONS. What is this Microsoft? lol


Oh, and I do not mean to piss off any 6mt owners with brembos, i'm just trying to let everyone know that there is an awesome kit available for us 5at owners that is equivalent or better and much less money than brembo who rapes you like Bill gates.

By the way, were you the first born or last born child in your family? lol

cM3go

I just want rear brembo calipers on my 6MT... i wonder if a kit will ever be available, I know its somewhat useless to have em in the rear, but I don't mind some "look" mods once in a while

captain

Like I said, you are just furthering my point...

Second best is still better than last, except when there are only 2 options... ooops, sorry

BTW, I wouldn't have bought the TL unless I could get it in a 6MT.

Last born, only 2 of us.

Where in Strong Island you from? I grew up in the metro area.

New2004AcuraTLman

lol, so I guess you are admitting that yours is second best then? Great! It seems to me that you had no options or else you wouldn't have bought the 6MT TL because they come with the brembos whether you like it or not and actually you are stuck with those whereas the 5AT people have several options for the brake upgrade. You just proved MY point. Lets me mature about this and stop with the antics already because we both do have amazing cars regardless of the brake setup. It's just that mine is better than yours How did we end up getting on a bashing contest anyway? lol

Oh and I am located in deer park and please don't call it "strong island" that is just sickening

Aegir

Some information has been left out of this discussion that should be considered. Brembo uses a wider two piece rotor in its kit, the Rotora rotor is 5mm thinner and a one-piece design. This difference in rotors alone represents much of the cost difference. I've seen both installed on TL's and I believe the Brembo caliper is larger - it appears to be the same caliper used on the 6MT cars with 'Brembo' letters instead of 'Acura'. Having seen both products, my impression is that the Brembo components are higher quality (materials, construction, appearance) and more substantial. I'm not saying that the Rotora is not a good value. As I said, it's a good product and seems to hold up to heavy use without any issues. However, buyers should not get the false impression that they are paying less for the same thing or that Brembo buyers are just paying for the name.

New2004AcuraTLman

if you saw the rotora kit in person you cannot possibly say that is a lesser quality than the brembo. The rotora kit does use a 1 piece rotor which is the SAME size as the brembo kit even if it is 2 piece. It has to fit the exact same specs on the car for mounting inorder to insure proper alignment and the rotors cannot be bigger or thinker unless the calipers or pads are smaller to compensate or it will interfere with mounting the wheels and so fourth. The rotora rotors are MASSIVE. If you saw the rotora calipers, they will blow you away and are in no way smaller than the brembos. I think i'll stick with my awesome setup and save the extra grand which is just smoke and mirrors on brembo's part. Ever hear of brand name drugs and their generic or store band counterparts? The price is VASTLY different for the SAME chemical formulation and ingredients and what you are paying out the nose for is the brand name's marketing and recognition. Some people who do not think logically think it's a better product just because it's a brand name and that ios exactly what the company is hoping for. It means NOTHING. Same goes here so I don't feel like paying $ 1000 of my money to help Brembo advertise.

You guys can do what you want with your money of course but if you order the kit and install it, you will THANK me for it guranteed. I always do my research before buying anything to get the best ther eis for the least money and you cannot go wrong with this setuo so if anyone wants to upgrade their 5AT with the kit, you will be very happy. I am not here to argue with others , jut to provde information to those who are looking for an incredible brake upgrade kit for a great price. Lets leave it at that and lets others who order judge for themselves!

willz822

Just a side note.....those generic drugs get there formulas from the major brand names. Drug companies are given a patent for their drugs. When this patent expires, any company is free to copy the formula and create these so-called generic drugs. With that said, congrats on your Rotora's but if someone feels more comfortable with Brembo's then so be it. Who cares. Both companies obviously make great brakes for our cars. Personally, I'm happy with my 6MT, not because they came with the Brembo's but because it's a "MANUAL"

6Speed Anthracite/Ebony

Aegir

What's so hard to believe? I have seen both and provided my impressions. The Rotoras are not as nice as the Brembos.





Your 'generic vs. name brand' analogy is not valid because it makes an assumption of product equality. The Brembo kit uses a 328x28mm two-piece rotor. The Rotora kit uses a 330x23mm one-piece rotor. Having seen both in person, my impression is that both are very nice, but the Brembo kit is nicer. $1000 nicer? Depends on how deep your pockets are and what you're looking for. Personally, I think the Rotoras are a very good selection and a better value - but they are not as nice as the Brembos.

Nodoze2004

I have seen a number of 5at owners bashing the Brembo's on this forum, and in all honesty I do not understand why? My question to you would be have you ever used Brembo's?? I am not trying to discount the performance of Rotora here, but Brembo products have a rock solid reputation (with the exception being high levels of dust and occasional squealing)! The brakes grip is absolutely viscous on my 6MT and I have NEVER encountered fading, even under repeated hard driving (saved my ass more than once as well).

My previous Hondas were prone to warped rotors (similar to the threads here about the standard 5at rotors already warping) and were horrendous!! I for one am glad they stepped up and put them on the car and sincerely hope they continue to do so!

And for the record, mine have not made as much as a peep....although my front wheel is a bit dark from all that dust (a trade off I will make any day)!!!

New2004AcuraTLman

Thsoe are not 04TL pics number 1 and number 2, the brembos that are all cross drilled as opposed to cross drilled and slotted are MUCH more prone to cracking and warping as opposed to half the amount of cross drills on the rotoras + the addition of slots which make for a much stronger rotor that is far less prone to cracking. Tell me why a $ 2500 set of brembo's is like this..oh wait, maybe because they actually don;t care if it does crack ( or even warranty it for that matter) because they know that they same suckers will just go ahead and replace it because they have an unlimited bankroll. Give me a break, they are more for look and name recognition than anything else and they think they can charge whatever they want for no better of a kit than the other leading manufacturers. I'll take my DUSTLESS and NOISELESS STOP ON A DIME ROTORA kit anyday for nearly half the price thank you!

New2004AcuraTLman

so you are saying that "tylenol" is much better and totally different than "acetominiphin" when in fact that is all that so called brand name tylenol is! Look at the ingredients. It is the same drug with a brand name. It does NOT mean that because it is tylenol and you pay double the price for it that it is in any way better than the generic CVS brand. Funny but I can buy both of these at the same time as well. I understand what you are saying about patents, but in my opinion that just leads to price gouging and antitrust laws that need to be established to prevent then from taking advantage of consumers, which brembo is doing with their kit for no better quality or performance. Dont bash something until you try it because you may be more surprised than anything that there ARE other companies that can make and even IMPROVE upon an original for a lot less money

New2004AcuraTLman

Yes, I have used brembos before and all they did was make noise and warp only to have to replace it with another brand name for half the cost that gave me NO problems. case and point. There is no need for brembos unles you drive a race car and change then out after every race because they are worn out. Brembos are mainly for the track and real racing because people don;t care about nose or longevity there. They just want something to stop the car in a hurry which they will do but dollar wise, they can't compete in price VS quality to other major brand names that are less known because Brembo has their advertising agency to pay

PoochaKannInc

Your brakes are dustless? That's impressive. I've never seen any disk brakes that are dustless.

By the way, the Rotoras that are cross-drilled and slotted are more suceptible to cracking than the Brembos on the 6MT. The benefits of cross-drilling and slotting are slim at best, and they are only realized on a race track, not in regular driving.

I'm not trying to argue that you have not gotten a great value with the Rotoras. You have indeed. However those that pick Brembo are not "suckers with an unlimited bankroll." They are also discerning consumers like you, except that they think the Brembos are worht the extra $. You don't think it is worth it, which is fine...but Aegir does bring up good points about Brembo vs. Rotora that can be considered in the decision making process.

willz822

Like I said.....good for you....enjoy your Rotora's....I have nothing against them...or Brembo's...you're entitled to your own opinions....But the fact of the matter is.... who cares....we love our Brembo's and you love your brand...As long as we're happy and the brakes live up to our expectations.....Does all the BS really matter???....Get a grip...

6Speed Anthracite/Ebony

New2004AcuraTLman

Yes, the are 99% dustless and i'd like to see the documentation that you have that states the crossdrilling and slotting are MORE prone to cracking when just about EVERY study and review website have verified and proven that when you drill out a hole in a rotor it loses structural integrity and rigity whereas slotting leaves the structural integrity intact while providing looks and performance. Please get your facts straight or stop talking!

New2004AcuraTLman

Exactly! Could we all just drop the "which brand is better" nonsense already . I'm just trying to tell owners of the 5at that the rotora kit is a high performance , high quality kit available for a mere $ 1495 which is a LOT less than the brembo kit for the same style /features, quality and because the OP asked a question and I gave an answer that he will be very happy with as am I. That's all!

Aegir

Agreed. I just looked and the Rotora kit is available for $1345 from autocarparts.com. The guys I know with Rotora kits are also very happy with them.

BTW, the pics above are a second-gen TL and CL. As you stated earlier, the kits should be the same for '04.

New2004AcuraTLman

Hooray! That's a great price that any 5AT owner should jump on if they want the kit. I will post some pics tomorrow so that everyone can get a real look at what they will look like on ou 3rd gen car with the a-sec wheels I have. sound good? . I know I promised today but i had an emergency with my dog twice today and had to bring her to the animal hospital I am so tired and stressed out today because she is older and I thought there was something seriously wrong with the way she was acting. She was limping and everything. My poor dog. She is at home now next to me and seem to be Ok. She is 16 year old and I had her since she was 2 so I would do anything for her. Can't say that much for my previous girlfriends!

ONAGER

First i have to say anyone who bad mouths brembo doesnt know what they are talking about. I will not say Brembo brakes are perfect, they are extremly dusty, and they will squeal until they are bedded properly, can take longer several thousand miles of easy driving to do so. The brakes have to be heat cycled to complete the process, several back to back hard stops with the proper cooling periods will do it, or many miles of easy normal driving.

Brembo supplies almost all major forms of racing, they are factory issue on porsche and ferrari (what parts manufacture wouldnt want to claim that?) brembo is the leader in braking technology, all others follow in their footsteps.

the reason race car brakes are rebuilt all the time is safety and wear, if your are going to trust brakes to stop a 300 mph indy time and time again, lap after lap, do you want it to be fresh rebuilt brakes, or brakes you think will get the job done? also brakes on race cars are absolutly pounded to the utmost extreme, f1 cars have the ability to produce 2+ Gs during braking with every lap and over 3 Gs in a straight panic stop, scrubbing of that kind of speed causes a massive amount of heat upwords of 1000 degrees. i wouldnt want to trust them for 3 or 4 races, no with my life. and either way brembo is still the choice no one else.

any time you "cut" a rotor you are taking the chance that the rotor will warp. there are several reasons for this, two of the most important are the fact that you are removing mass from the rotor (mass equals ability to aborb and xfer heat), and you are creating stress points with in the rotor. now cross drilled/slotted rotors do have benifits (not that most people will ever use them) they allow the gas thats being created from use an additional avenue of escape. just as tires hydroplane on a wet road, the brake pads may not bite as good while that gas is trying to escape. this however would take extreme circumstances to induce. and you wont in everyday driving.

being the fact that the rotara discs are thinner means that they cannot absorb or transfer the same amt of heat. although most people will never even reach their stopping ability, the plan fact is the brembo has the ability to stop more consistently. now notice i said ability, as this has more to do with the entire brake system, then just the size of the rotors. pedal ratio, pad surface area, # of pistons, master cylinder volume, caliper volume, swept area, and many more have to be figured to get the true abilityof th brakes...

in either case i dont know... personally i bought the 6mt, because i wanted the manual. getting the brembos was icing on the cake. the fact is, i got outstanding brakes and i didnt have to pay extra for them. all automatic owners, yes you got options, and you get to pay for everyone one of them. also 6mt get a limited slip differential, and the ability to put power down when you need it most both were "thrown" in, as manuals are "drivers cars"

im glad every one likes the rotora brakes, im sure their awsome, if you have an automatic, i would seriously look at them as a replacement. but i would also look to brembo, baer, wilwood, and nyther high quality brake compny to find wat better fits my needs and expectations

caball88

very good post and informative. i've tried stating this in my earlier post but i wasn't able to make it quite so clear. another fact that i want to add is that cross drilled rotors are not necessarily drilled and casted instead. this usually provides stronger rotors and are less prone to cracking. the brembo rotors i believe are cast and not drilled. i dunno if the rotoras are cast or drilled. also how can the rotoras be 99% dust free? how does it grip without fade?

ONAGER

first off i hate this computer im using, the keyboard sucks and makes my post not come out right...

brake fade has more to do with the ability to absorb additional heat. brakes take forward energy (rotational energy at the wheels, forward energy to you and me) and scrubbs it off. in doing so that forward energy is turned to heat. for brakes to be effective they have to absorb this heat and xfer it into the air. essentially once a brake system has absorbed all the heat it can take, this is xfered back to us as brake fade. the brakes cannot stop as effectively as they cant cool fast enough to be effective. higher quality brake components xfer heat far better then lower quality units. that why if you buy cheap replacement parts, dont expect high quality performing brakes. even if they are the same size, lower quality materials wont shed heat as well. also casting flaws will effect brake peformance (brembo wont accept large casting flaws) look into the vanes of a cheap rotor (down the vented portion) alot of time in a cheap rotor you will see extra metal or slightly off passages. although in most situations you will never notice this, in hard braking situations it could affect performance (less cooling ability)

Brake dust is more of a pad issue, that why if you change the pads you can get rid of a brake dust issue. different pad formulations will cause different amts of dust (some of this dust can bad for you, as asbestos is one of the best pad materials, but deadly if you breath enough of it. most brake companies dont use it any more) i wont say that dust free are bad pads. as i dont know enough about the brand and materials used. but i will tell you that if you watch any kind of motorsports you will note that there brakes all produce dust, lots of it. from all materials i have read for maximum braking performance you will hve to put up with at least a little dust. not saying dust free are bad, as most people will never reach the abilities of their brakes to begin with...

if you want a cheap and effective way to lower fade, go to your local auto parts store, buy carburator breather hose (the hose that feeds carbs from the wheel well, 2" is about right) jack up the car, and route cooling air from the front of the car to the brakes. use bundle ties to hold the whole thing together. and make sure you leave slack for the suspension to work, and watch what you tie it to (no drive axles if you please) the better they cool the less fade. now this wont make you car stop faster, it will just give the ability to stop more and to stop more consistently

PoochaKannInc

My statement was that if we were looking at: 1. the 6MT Brembo rotor and the other 2. the same rotor (in terms of thickness, and overall diameter) but cross-drilled and slotted, the 2nd one would be more prone to cracking, because the 6MT Brembo rotors do not have holes or slots in them, it is a smooth surface with no surface weaknesses.

I don't have to prove anything to you. You stated yourself that cross-drilling reduces structural integrity. It does. Slotting a rotor takes away some mass that could be absorbing the heat produced by braking (some even claim that it causes uneven and rapid pad wear). The purpose of the drilling and the slotting was to allow gasses that built up between the pads and the rotors to escape. The pads now do not have that "gassing problem" at least street pads, in street driving do not. To me it is more of a visual upgrade (not the thicker or larger rotors, the drilling and the slotting).

I do not claim to be an expert in braking systems. Therefore, you can choose to correct me, although from all that I have researched and read, I believe I'm correct in my statements.

Either way, g'luck with the Rotoras, and I hope your dog gets better...keep us posted.

New2004AcuraTLman

I slightly misunderstood as I was referring to the aftermarket brembo grand turismo full cross drilled kit VS the Rotora half crossdrilled and slotted kit. I wasn't referring to the Brembo rotors on the 6MT car VS the rotora kit . The slots in the rotora actually help when the brakes are put under heavy use because the rotors natural tendency is to glaze up undet the heat dissapated by the brake pads. The pads will also glaze and what the slots do is actually reduce this greatly because the rotors actually scrape/score the pads slightly keepoing the surface clean and glaze free. This allows for the pads to perform theor job and stop the car without overheating, thus keeping the fade down as well as keeping the rotor in better condition over use. The heat can be absorbed by the pads better and wear more evenly. It will also greatly reduce brake squeel from glazed pads and rotors. That is a pure performance benefit to having slotted rotors first as well as the additional visual benefit second. The cross drilled rotors alone cannot do this and when you are talking about an all cross drilled rotor, even if it is slightly thicker, it still is prone to cracking more because the holes go through the vanes to the other side. This decreases the structural integrity of the rotor and will cause it to warp faster. Casting a rotor makes it stronger as well and the rotora rotors are also cast as i'm sure the brembos are. The price VS performance comparison and advantages VS disadvantages over the 2 brands are objective and subjective at the same time. Personally, I am very happy with the look, feel and performance of my rotora kit for the money spent. I'm not saying they are better or worse than the brembos, but a much better value for the same quality and engineering in my opinion for what you get.

Thanks for asking about my dog too. She seems a lot better today thankfully and I will kep watching her over the weekend I think i will take her out to watch me wash my car so i can take those pics I promised!

Greg.