PA-TL

Driving today in our first really cold spell (15 f) and I realize I missed my turn. So I slow down and turn right into a housing development. As I turn I realize I have begun to tread upon black ice. With the curb fast approaching I try all...brakes, no brakes, no brakes & turn, brakes & turn, pray and turn, being to curse...finally I nail the curb (but only going about 20mph).

After the obligatory curse tirade I venture out to see that I missed my bumber and rapped the tire. Seeing little more than scrapes I sigh relief and drive away. About 30 seconds into my drive I realize my steering wheel is at a constrast 30 degree left turn as I drive straight ---- SH*T!

Take it to the dealer and I've got about 2k worth of damage to the drivers wheel area.

I don't have any pix (really not much to see w/the naked eye). I love the winter...

Sympathy only please!

GUMP

I also live in the Philly area and it was really bad in my neighborhood this morning. The roads were a sheet of ice. I just took my time and had no problems. Do yourself a favor next time and watch the news before you leave home. They said a lot of black ice was out there and too be careful. Good luck with the repairs and be carefull out there in the Philly area.

J RIDE 81

Damn, all apart of being in these cold areas. I know how you feel. G'luck!

Thorin78

Sorry to hear that PA-TL. lucky you weren't one of those that was in the 30 car pile up last night on 322, 20 in one direction, 10 in the other with a van flipped over and slid on its roof on black ice until stop. I wasn't either luckily.

I did get my new LS-Z tires this morning. YAY.

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

SRRY!!! we live in DE and it was really bad yesterday ev. it snowed and we came out of target... 30 to our house, i heard the front left tire splash hard for the whole time while the front right tire was quiet. i tyhought my door was open but didnt find anything wrong..... srry again

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

srry, forgot 2 ask, what tires do u hav?

SouthernBoy

This is one of the worse reasons for cars to have FWD. Not because of the loss of control, but because of the very real possibility of hitting a curb as you did.

Serious damage can be caused to everything from CV joints to ring and pinion gears to you name in in the transaxle. Make sure you have whoever is fixing your car to do a thorough check on your drivetrain components.

Thorin78

can't you do the same thing in a RWD? if the car is going to hit the curb by sliding on black ice, I don't think even AWD will help. Accidents happen and it's even worse when it happens to you.

sebounet2005

Here in Montreal today it was -10°F (-23°c) I took a picture of my MID but i think during the winter i could break this record.

There was a lot of black ice. If you have good winter tires and drive carefully it's not so difficult.

May be in Philadelphia they don't put anough salt on road.

I found that the VSA is usefull as it alerts you of what you cannot see.

When the triangle light on that means it's slippery so be carefull

miiipilot

Thorin, I think SouthernBoy was hinting at the more complex a FWD system is compared to a RWD. All our drivetrain components are connected to the front wheels. This = more $ and more damage when you impact something with them.

I live in Cleveland and just got our first few snowfalls of the year YAY and I have run into this scenario already. My solution: Rip the emergency brake up (keep your thumb on the button) and point the nose in the right direction and feather the throttle through the slide to bring u back on track. This is fun too :-) Might throw ur tires off balance, but what's worse 30 bucks or 2k?

Practice in a big parking lot :-) Reverse donuts anyone?

miiipilot

Nukeman

Had the same 'first time' ice/snow experience here in NY also. I wasn't sure how the car would respond especially with the reputation that the lousy tires have. Well, took it easy, traction was so-so at best, but what did notice was the ABS brakes sure keep the car straight as an arrow even under hard breaking. I wonder how the Michlin & Perrielli people did.....any input???

coop1018

Live outside of philly...in King of Prussia. I have the high performance tires and the flats spots kill me in the morning. Have to start out in second gear most of the time in the winter. Dont do the HPT's. Anyway, sorry for the damage that you have...take it super slow in this god awful weather!

SouthernBoy

To miiipilot;

Yes, that's exactly what I was referring to.. perhaps I should have been a little more clear. With all of the "goodies" up front, serious damage can occur in a FWD that wouldn't even be a consideration in a RWD car.

Your description of using the emergency brake is correct. The affect is somethinkg like a parashoot by keeping the front of the car in the front and the rear in the rear. Also, in just about every former car I've owned, when we get the first snow fall that is not crushing, I take my car to an empty parking lot and practice taking it into and out of spins. I want to see where its limits are reached and how it handles under such conditions. Since I have no plans of driving this car in the snow, I will not be doing this with the TL.

RJANACONDA

iTrader: (1)

uhh isnt the VSA supposed to prevent things like that? im just asking or do you think that it would have been worse if you had it off of course your fine and that is what truly matters

sebounet2005

I think the VSA works if it's able to find grip again. Without grip you just have to wait and pray, whatever electronic system you have.

That's why you absolutely need good winter tires to have the best of your car in winter.

For example a four wheel drive car,with all the tires on ice won't do much better than a RWD or FWD in the same situation. Unfortately most 4WD driver don't believe it and on the first ice storm or snow storm they are the first in the field.

PbPedis

Parking brake might have helped, but I guess it really doesn't matter at this point.

PA-TL

Second generation EL42's

Acuracy

hey

i had my expierance with black ice this morning too...i live in the NYC area and this morning was really bad with alot of ice....i was making a left turn from a stop light..i was going through tthe turn pretty good then the car jus let loose and i slid straight into a parked van.....the vsa didnt kick in or anything....as i was sliding i touched the brakes and the car jus locked up...steering did nothing..the car kept going straight....cracked the front bumper, bent my license plate. in all 750 dollars worth of damage and labor, totally sucked btw i have the A spec wheels with the yokohama es Tires

Travis

PA-TL

Guys:
Thanks for the comments and sympathy. I was suprised that I did not notice any help from ABS or VSA. During the incident I wasn't thinking about that stuff, but afterwards while playing back in my head I realized that I felt no different than skidding in a '73 Subaru.

Good thing I was going real slow.

SouthernBoy...I will make sure that the dealer does a detailed look at the drive train. I was worried about that too and mentioned it and he said it was OK, but I'm not convinced. On the drive home tonight the acceleration felt sluggish. Will see what happens (thanks!)

Formula 350

Sorry to hear about that.... as they always say, at least it was only damage to the car and not you!!


it is supposed to get cold here in Houston for Christmas (below freezing). and my baby will stay in the garage... my old Monte Carlo gets to do the work!!!

BarryH

FWD, RWD, AWD doesn't matter on ice. It's all about the tires. Spending about $1K on winter tires/wheels that'll last three seasons is a lot cheaper than doing $2,500K worth of damage sliding in to a curb. Where I live it's hilly and icy. SUV's slide out all the time because M+S tires with 4WD still aren't enough. Dedicated winter tires exist for a reason.

SouthernBoy

To Formula 350;

Yeah, we had a threat of snow on Sunday night and the salt trucks were out on some of the roads. My TL stayed in my garage at home while I did Christmas shopping in my Ford Ranger pickup (a fine little thing, it is). The TL will never see snow or salty/sanding roads it I can help it.

SouthernBoy

To PA-TL;

And I should have said how sorry I am to hear of your unfortunate mishap. I really hope it all turns out Ok for you and your baby.

PoochaKannInc

PA-TL: Hope everything turns out ok.

Acuracy: Take off the summer tires. They can be downright dangerous in winter climes.

leeherman

Yay for alternate vehicles!

We had a bit of snow (and SALT) Sunday night. I used my '99 Toyota Solara (FWD and ABS) for my commute yesterday, and I'm back in my '87 Dodge Diplomat "station car" today (RWD and no ABS). The TL won't be driven 'til the salt is washed away by a good rain storm or two.

The Solara was my garaged vehicle 'til the TL came along. Yesterday was the first time the car ever had salt on it...



Regards,

SpecialFX

PA-TL,
I'm very sorry to hear about your incident. Hope all goes well and there's not too much damge. We had some of the white stuff Monday morning. The worst part was the ice. Not much snow. I drove the TL yesterday and it was not great. But I doubt any other car would have been much better on A/S tires. Winters may be in order. (I'm on 2G El42s)

That's why the TL is at home now and I sent the wife out in the Nissan.

Good luck.

Whiteowl

PA-TL,
Sorry to hear about the slip and slide crunch, Ouch!!!
It sure makes me feel good that my TL is in the Garage for the Winter months!!
No Snow, Ice, Salt and Mud ...
That's not even speaking about the other possible evils that are out there!!!
I hope she get well soon!!!

miiipilot

I dont think spending 1000 on winter tires is a complete necessity. I live in Cleveland and the lake effect snow can be brutal.

My last 3 cars all had high performance tires (M3 = Mich Pilot Sport, GS-R = Nitto 555, and G35 cpe = Mich Pilot Sport) These were daily drivers and I got through winter alright. Hills were a problem only in severe snowfalls. But as far as normal A > B transportation. I did fine. Know your car, know your ability in that car. Every so often, when safe, test the road surface (break, swerve, accelarate)

ONE WORD: PATIENCE
&
ONE PRHASE: PAY FUCKING ATTENTION TO THE ROAD --- not your cell phone, not your Chipotle burrito, not your make-up, and certainly not your fucking newspaper.

LOL i actually saw someone reading a full newspaper spread out over his steering wheel.

Sorry for the rant there, I just cant believe the NERVE of some people sometime.

Relax everyone, leave 15mins earlier and enjoy winter. I moved back from Florida for it.

miiipilot

eazyc10

I had a similar incident in my eclipse. It was never aligned properly after that and always seemed to pull to the left.

Sorry to hear about it!

jdone

Under the same conditions an awd car will have exactly 100% more traction than the same car with rwd or fwd. Unfortunately, in some situations, 2 X 0.0 still equals zero.

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

dang, i better switch our el42s....

sebounet2005

If all the ice is under the four wheels no tractions for a FWD or RWD = no traction for the four wheel. Sorry but physics law are the same for everything and everyone on earth. That's why here in canada a lot of people don't know the physics laws. For example a 4WD can accelerate faster on slippery condition and run faster than a RWD or FWD but when you need to stop the laws are the same, when you have a four wheel drive you are too confident and don't feel enough the quality of the road in terms of grip. That's why so many 4wD are the first in field here.

May you have seen a race on ice and the all wheel drive car needs too have big "nails" on their tires.