I have the 04TL/5at/Ant/18"Aspec wheels and would like to upgrade the front brakes from the 5mt. Has anybody done this? and does it not only require the caliper/rotor replacement but possible require changing brakets or spindles?

 

I have gone online and ent out inquiries to salvage yards in the area to purchase the calipers-Rotors but dont know if it requires anything else, Plus the yards never responded back.

 

If you have the 5at then it's not worth getting the Brembos of an 6mt. It's just not a bolt on iteam. Your best bet is to go with an after market kit. I think Stoptech makes one.

 

Wow, thats alot of cash, 4500+ I had no idea to upgrade would cost that much. I would rather spend the money on alot of other things

 

it is not a bolt on item from 6MT to 5AT for the brakes. it would be cheaper to get the brembo gran turismo kit for about 2300 or a stoptech kit(not sure if they have one yet), but they usually cost about 1800.

 

I'm working on a deal with a company that uses Wilwood brake components, to make a rear and front big brake kit w/ 6 piston rotors, cross drilled and slotted rotors and the like. I should have a group-buy ready by the end of the week with all the details. In order for us to get the prices I want, signifigantly lower than a Standard $1500 rotora front brake kit, we need to order in groups. I will make a thread about it as soon as I discuss this with the mods.

 

Wouldn't an upgrade on the 5at (or 6mt rear Brembo conversion) require a new master cylinder? I was under the impression that it would as the current layout for the 6mt is 2 pistons on each front wheel and 2 shared between the rear. As such to upgrade to say 4 pistons on the front and 2 pistons on the rear would require a significant re-working of the braking system.

I am not a brake expert, but this was my impression. Anyone care to enlighten?

 

You realize by installing larger brakes and rotors you are losing hp at the wheels. In fact, you will probably lose up to 8% total. Just food for thought...

IMO the stock brakes are fine, upgrade the pads and upgrade your suspension!

 

Excellent point, FORSITE. The 6MT gets aways with this through the use of aluminum Brembo calipers and a thinner (but larger diameter) rotor.

dsc888

 

That's why I decided to go with aftermarket stock size rotors and upgraded pads.

 

Thanks! I just learned this the other day watching Speed channel. They were modifying an RSX and noticed that after the brake upgrade they were losing 7% hp.

 

That's why you get a supercharger as well.

 

i did not know that you lose hp with a brake upgrade.... thanks for the information

 

That's because it's considered "unsprung" weight. That's why you lose acceleration when you get bigger rims. The increased weight of the rim and tire requires more HP to turn them even though the difference may be only a few pounds. Drag races usually get smaller and very light weight forged aluminum rims to maximize acceleration. Also, increased unsprung weight can also affect handling too.

dsc888

 

i agree with what you wrote on the rotating weight causing a loss.... i didnt think it was a large as 8%.....

but the aluminum calipers make no difference in your example as they dont rotate... there fixed and the rotors rotates between the two side. but the thinner rotor would keep the weight in check... smilar to what most bikes are doing now....

 

ONAGER,

Thanks man! You are definitely right about that. It's rotational mass that matters.

dsc888

 

however the aluminum calipers are a big plus when it comes to handling though... here they are still a factor and the lighter the better. as they are unsprung weight...

technically big brakes hurt turning as well, simple physics show a body in motion tends to stay in motion, ie: doesnt like to change direction... bikes are very prone to this, cars arent...

they technically even hurt the very initial point when the brakes are applied, as they weigh more and are harder to stop.... but their increased abilities far outweigh that.... and its only for a split second.... the best of all worlds are carbon fiber or ceramic dics... but those are only on super cars or race cars....

 

Everything stated about unsprung weight and loss of horsepower is generally correct. Its not an issue if you are tracking your car because your track time may be the same if not a little better with the upgrade because your braking power is far better. If you track at all or understand the difference between spirited street driving and track/race driving you know its night and day. Its not always about horsepower numbers. lightness, unsprung weight, rotational mass, suspension setups, brake fade.... it goes on and on. The ability to stay on the power and brake in the zone later in all the corners makes a big difference in track time and setting yourself up to pass or not be passed. Someone mentioned watching the "Project RSX" buildup on Sport car Revolution. That's actaully a really good series. No bling bling crap. If you watched the whole buildup, they mentioned the track time and braking relationships. They also made back the horsepower loss through the concept of unsprung and rotational mass tweeking; ie: better designed clutch plate where the rotational mass was more centre on the unit. They used a lighter flywheel to, again, deal with the horsepoer loss in the system. These things all helped them get "more respectable numbers" for all the people who look at those, but more importantly, better track performance and track times.

Those of you who want Big brakes for bling bling, go right ahead, but if you really want to understand the concept of braking performance, you must do much more homework and research then only reading an article or two. You have to understand that bigger isn't always better for your particular application. Most people who want better performance for the street will benefit hugely on just a better brake pad. There is little or not brake fade situations on the street unless your commute involves significant grades up and down and highway speeds with lots of traffic. Big Brakes are all about eliminating brake fade which is what you get doing countless laps and corners on a track; not so much with the quick jaunt to 7-11.

Hopefully this will shed some light on this topic. I don't want to see people spending big bucks for something that doesn't really match what their expectations are. Its a lot of money for those kits and not all kits are created equal. There was a thread about the whole Rotora vs Brembo deal. I generally agree with Rotora being slightly lower in performance thus a more affordable system. that's perfectly fine. To me, they are in different markets. Brembo, AP, Stoptech, Alcon. These are guys who let their racing heritage speak for themselves. Rotora, and a few others are in there for those guys who want the bling of big brakes and are not necessarily going to do laps on the track. They may be better than stock in some respects, but i would hesitate to group them in the same quality level and performance level as the above mentioned. Project U, Endless, HP; i can't speak of their quality, but i used to be crazy about JDM projucts but have learned over the years that they are also using Brembo, AP and Alcon as stencils for their product. That shoudl say something. I grew up wanting to use Endless brake pads, but really, the domestic products are just as good or better. To each their own i guess.

cheers

 

Here's an excellent article on what can happen if you only upgrade the front brake. http://www.socalrsxforums.com/forums...read.php?t=544

 

http://www.zeckhausen.com/Acura/TL_Gen2.htm

talk to dave he has posted here before, hes a really straight forward cool guy....

and he knows brakes like the back of his hand

 

If they installed larger and perhaps heavier wheels along with the brake upgrade that would also contribute to the increase in loss of HP. Larger wheels even if they are the same weight will have higher rotational inertia (due to larger mass radius) which requires more work to spin up and spin down.

So while larger wheels will allow lower profile tires for better handling performance, the larger wheels will require more energy which means slightly slower acceleration and longer braking distances.

That's why it's important to note wheel weight when upsizing wheels, forged wheels may be expensive compared to cast but can be up to half as light.