doggydog

MAybe not the best, but I use HONDA 0-20 every 3500 miles. So far so good.

darksom1

Now when you use it with the EA-013 oil filter from Amsoil. Combined, you can go 25K or 1-yr. I do less than 15K a year. So it deoesn't make me a difference one way or the other. I put it in January, and I have had no problems with Stella since then!

aznboi2424

iTrader: (10)

so your saying you would use a higher quality filter period, for any interval.
have you ever heard of a fram filter failing? sure its crappy when you open it up but ive been using them on my mom's 92 camry and its running strong at 216k. but personally, i think that if your running 3-5k intervals then you should be using dino oil anyways unless you are under real severe conditions.
my full synthetic oil changes are 10k and i use a good filter for those long intervals since they will catch more.

short intervals: dino oil and any filter that will meet/exceed OEM specs.
long intervals: syn oil and high quality filter.

ChrisQ1980

Old, dirty, worn out oil does not flow, clean, cool, or lubricate as well as new or still in good condition oil causing the engine to work a little bit harder.

With that being said, if you changed your oil at 7,500 (recomended) change intervals you shouldnt notice or see any HP gain. BUT if you changed it at 15k there would probably be an increase.

Just as spark plugs don't make more HP, they would over a set that had 150k on them. So by keeping all of your fluids fresh and clean along with all the other wear/maintence items you will never lose HP. The engine/trans will always be operating at it's best.

BEAR-AvHistory

You not supposed to ask questions like that because everybody will have to say no, they have never personally seen a catastrophic failure of a fram filter.

Thing is its the stuff you can't see.

If the bypass valve jams you will be circulating dirty oil but will not know it. Same with the cardboard filter media end caps or the media itself. The filter will fill up with dirt faster because it has less material inside.

The filter can fail internally in a number of ways you can't see unless you cut it open after the fact when its too late. Any of these things happen & you are passing dirty oil around your engine for X miles.

For a few dollars more ($5more at Auto Zone) if you are going to crawl under the car anyway why not be a premium filter that is less likely to have these problems.

BEAR-AvHistory

Good answer.

Does anyone know if the TL has a windage tray in the oil pan?

snavarrette

Your right I forgot, I don't feel a diffrence and the whole world is paid by Royal Purple to make up a story of more HP. Me alone would buy Royal Purple and give my on how good it works for me. So I alone would promote it. (even though I have received no money.)

You figured it out! We're all against you trying to brain wash you in to buying a certain oil!

BEAR-AvHistory

You can believe whatever you want, just explain your belief. The flip side of the coin is if your statement was valid & with all the manufactures getting trashed by the US government CAFE requirements forcing them to discontinue hi output engine packages in some car lines & needing every edge they can get, why is RP oil not standard equipment in every car sold in the US?

I am just looking for a rational answer other then some manufacturers marketing puffery.

Finally, there is no way at all that an oil change from brand A to brand B will give you so much power that you can feel it seat of the pants.

You have a good case of the placebo effect if you think it does.

cleex024

id go with mobile 1...seems like that would be the best choice imo

snavarrette

Your right it's not the world trying to brain wash you it's everyone with the placebo effect

Yea and the whole after market performance parts are part of the placebo effect because the were not OEM.

And the goverment forces manufactures to make low performance cars. Not the consumer market.

Funny I thought the whole reason manufactures made vehicles was to make a profit. Your right you really do have everything figured out.

Thanks for setting us straight.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Royal Purple or Mobil One.....accept no other.

mista.huynh

iTrader: (4)

Would it hurt to use just regular Mobil oil, but changing it every 3000kms ??
Just so there isn't any crap build up in the crankcase...?

BEAR-AvHistory

Lots of words but still no answer to the basic question.

Try some words for this one.

Acura's HTO-06 motor oil standard is very difficult to meet.

PP and Mobil 1 are the only brands clearly meeting it.

Amsoil claims it's SSO-0W-30 meets it. It's other synthetics do not. It's unclear why if it does meet the standard they won't print the HTO-06 standard on the SSO-0W-30 label.

Honda Motor Corp has chosen Mobil 1 as the factory fill for its turbocharged RDX motors which are much more highly stressed then the TL ones. Hey, but they are only factory engineers so what do they know, they are not oil experts like you.

Of course if they screw up with their oil choice & the warranty claims pile up they are the ones that will get canned.

As for my use of OEM vs. after market parts I built my first race only engine, qualified for both NHRA & SCCA competition licenses before you were born.

dwest1023

There IS no best. If you want good value with a known good product, use Mobil one. If you are not going to keep the car 7years, use any good quality and change on a regular basis. I use Royal purple cuz it makes me feel good. My cars seem to be smoother with it, but at 8 bucks a pop that may be my mind.

ChrisQ1980

LOL, guess I was being tested.

BEAR-AvHistory

Nah, I was just curious what you were going to say since some of the positions taken in the oil & octane threads are very interesting to say the least.

Your answer was very thoughtful.

As for some of the others, lots of 'feelings' & not much quantifiable data.

We see some of the same 'feeling' stuff in my AvHistory site when we build something that does not fit the conventional stereotype.

BEAR-AvHistory

Some of this car is still OEM but very little is after market because there were no after market parts to do what I wanted to do.

So I had to either fabricate them or modify the OEM parts from this car & another one (TR-8).





It was built in 1982 when you were about 11 or 12 & was donanted to Make-A- Wish about 3 years ago. It ran Dino oil the whole time.

avs007

Actually, whenever I've used Fram filters before, I always got valve-train chatter on startup. I've never had this problem using Puralator or Mobil-1 fliters.

Not in my opinion... My dad happens to have a car with the same engine as my other car. He always uses dino oil (Havoline I think), and a fram filter. I helped him replace the intake LIM manifold gaskets. I also replaced the LIM gaskets on my own car a few months prior to that. I only use Mobil-1 oil and filters. When I did my engine at 140,000 miles, the engine was as clean as a whistle on the inside. No varnish, no sludge, etc....

My dad's engine, which only had 100,000 miles... Everything on the inside of his engine had a layer of sludgy stuff on it... I went and pulled as much stuff out as I could with the top half of the engine off, and cleaned all the parts. Keep in mind his Buick has the same engine as my Grand Prix (same platform and same model year even), so it's not engine specific....

So anyways, I would not say that using any oil and any filter on standard intervals is the equivalent of using synthetic oil and high quality filter. And we both have the same habits with regards to maintenence....

I don't use synthetic and high quality filters because I want to change the oil less often and do longer change intervals... I use it, becuase I want the best lubrication for my car's engine.

Bearcat94

I am against the senseless slaying of innocent vegetables in ordeer to render them for oil. That's why I continue to use products that utilize our naturally occuring resources.

For you people who continue to kill and consume defenseless vegetables, I am not preaching. I am just saying this is the life-style choice I have made.



:wink: (for the slow ones out there)

avs007

3000km or 3000miles? Changing it every 3000km is a bit excessive in my opinion. I use Mobil-1 and change it about every 4k-5k miles, and I have never seen any kind of build-up over 150,000 miles.

avs007

Reminds me of a cartoon I remember seeing on the cartoon network with brocolli people invading the earth......

Bearcat94

You shouldn't be so definsive. Look at it this way:

- The car gained 36WHP. Good Gain.

How much was from:

- The Exhaust?
- K&N Air Filter?
- K&N Oil Filter?
- RP Oil?

Because the way the info is presented here, there is no way to tell how much from each individual change.

It is however very likely that most of the gains came from the Exhaust and Air Filter. It is unlikely that any BIG gains (maybe a few WHP) came from the oill *alone*.



Actaully, to the extent that the government is independent of it's constiuency, this is correct.

The CAFE standards require each manufacturer to have it's ENTIRE Product Line/Product Production meet a minimum average MPG.

In other words for every "low" MPG performance car, the manufacturer (Ford, Chevy, Acura, etc) MUST produce enough "high" MPG cars to meet the CAFE standard average.

CrazyNurse

I agree Castrol Syntec FTW!

I get it at Walmart.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

This thread fails....lol. As all the "oil" threads do.

Legend2TL

I've been using Castrol motor oils (GTX, SynBlend, Syntec) for 25+ years on all of our vehicles (including my parent's and brother's Honda's) and always recommend to others. No engine lubrication problems at all, extremely little varnish and no sludge whatsoever on internal engine parts even on engines with over 250K and two decades of use.

$20/gallon for Syntec 5W-20 at my local Walmart.

Legend2TL

All so true, discuss oil is like discussing sex, religion, politics, microprocessers, operating systems,....

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Cause more than not....its all opinion....as you know what they say about opinions....everybodies got one, ect ect. People should just realize that....fact is....I want to stop even coming to this thread cause it just makes me want to beg the question at times.

Here are some facts that I do know.....

Being in the industry a number of years ago....I have probably installed over oh....say.....10,000 - 15,000 Fram oil filters on cars without ONE issue, failure, or problem related to the oil filter whatsoever using Quaker State motor oil to boot. Dino oil changed regularly will do just fine in most instances changed accordingly at 3,000 miles.

Now....do I do this on my own car....no. I use Royal Purple as mentioned and Honda oil filters as thats what I like the best personally.

Legend2TL

I know this is off-topic but I must tell my favorite engine oil story. In college I worked part-time in a liquor store (great place to work BTW while in college!). Another part-time worker had a mid-70's Ford Mustang II four cylinder, she was a single mom with another full-time job (French teacher). She mentioned her oil light coming on one day so I told her I'd take a look at her car's dipstick. NOTHING came up on the stick, she had no spare oil in the trunk so I walked over to a local auto parts store and dropped 2 quarts into it. Even after that it just barely covered the bottom of the stick (not even close to the bottom of the oil range on the stick).

I felt some pity on her so I offered to change her oil and filter for her. The next time at work I brought my tools and went over and got the oil and filter and changed it on my break in the parking lot. When I removed the drain plug, this black tar like thick goo (like the Beverly Hillbillies TV show intro) comes dribbling out of the pan. Once in a while some lumpy thing also came out. I replaced the filter, drain plug, and added the new oil. Started up and ran fine. I gave her back the keys and asked her when was the last time she changed her oil just for amusement. She said she owned the Mustang two years (bought it used) and said she didn't remember having ever changed the oil and filter. She was going through a bad divorse, raising a teenage son, and had two jobs so her free time was literally non-existent.

I'm still amazed that little 2.3L Ford four ran as well as it did considering it's state of lubrication. I know this was off-topic but it a cute oil change story. My best guestimate is that old oil was over 2 years old and ~30K miles for early 80's probably dino oil no less!

saltypants

Redline 10W-30, Amsoil 10W-30, or Amsoil 0W-30 for those that want the absolute best.

I personally wouldn't put Mobil 1 in anyone of my vehicles. It has a terrible reputation for sub-par quality on BITOG.

avs007

How would you associate the problem with the oil filter? Just because you install a fram filter on a car, doesn't mean if the guy has problems they'll come back to you guys to fix it. How do you know that guy will even still own the car if problems arise? Nobody was saying that if you use a fram filter, your engine will blow up the next day.

We were just saying that it can't be good for longevity. It's like washing your face with laundry detergent..... Sure, it'll work, and your face will be clean. You can probably go for a while doing that... Eventually tho, it'll show itself when your skin starts drying out and cracking in the future.

Or on a more related note... It's like putting Armor-All on your car.... Sure it'll look nice and pretty, but that doesn't mean it is actually doing anything beneficial. Petroleum distillates WILL dry out rubber/plastic/etc. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but it will.... Similarly, a fram filter may work fine for you now and tomorrow... But rubber does not seal well against paper, and that deficiency will eventually show itself. Kinda like smoking... Some people get cancer and some people don't.... I can point out all the friends/family I know that smoked their whole lives and didn't get lung cancer, but that doesn't mean that smoking doesn't cause lung cancer.

avs007

Just to add a little more... If problems do happen years down the road, I doubt the owners/mechanics/etc will instantly think it was their oil filter that caused their problems.

What kind of soap do you use? Do you have dry skin? Lots of people have dry skin, that didn't used to have dry skin. Do they just have dry skin, or did their soap actually cause it? I know lots of people that had dry skin or dandruff until they started using better soaps/lotions/shampoos. (ie, not using stuff like Dial, Suave, Head & Shoulders, etc)

Note: I'm not saying these things cause dry skin, I'm just saying that just because you installed 15,000 fram filters and didn't see anyone complain, doesn't mean there is nothing wrong with using fram.

snavarrette

Like I said "THANKS FOR SETTING US STRAIGHT!" We should use only the oil you recommend-oh mighty one.

To bad tech. has grown more in recent years then it has your whole lifetime.

But thanks to you, oh might one, will stay with OLD Mobile1, because u said too.
I'll just have to learn to not belive my eyes and all the dyno test result. For give me Oh-mighty. I'm just a young and Dumb.

BEAR-AvHistory

You are forgiven. I will not hold your relative youth & inexperience in the world of oil marketing against you.

Love all those vids on the RP site made by Hot Rod TV aka Speed Shop Infomercials 'R Us

I like the vid were the guy with the 4X4 truck got a 23% increase in MPG went from about 15 miles per gallon to 21 miles per gallon with a refill of purple. The words they used were real slick too.

"The truck got 15 mpg around town then we put RP in it & took it on our Hot Rod tour. 5,000+ miles later it had returned 21 MPG."

You expect those 5K miles were also around town or mostly highway miles? Some apples & oranges there in the big MPG increase claim?

As I said earlier you can believe anything you want but with all this new age tech only two oils meet the new age Acura HTO-06 motor oil standard, Mobil 1 & Pennzoil Platinum.

Only 1 grade of Amsoil made the cut which is one more then Royal Purple.

Thats not me giving an opinion & its not the opnion of the guys trying to sell you oil, its the opinion of the guys who built your car.

aznboi2424

iTrader: (10)

What was the oil change interval for both cars?

avs007

I change my oil every 4-5k miles depending on the oil-life guage on my car. (I always change it when it gets below 35% or so, which usually translates to 4-5k miles)

My dad is more strict and actually changes the oil on his cars every 3k miles or 3 months, whichever comes first.

Vernito24

I have used synthetic oil in my 04 Tl from day one 6/16/2004. I have used Honda, fram and mobile1 filters. I have not noticed any difference between them, hp or mpg. I would suggest you go to a non-bias site, and let logic take you to a happy place. That's what I did. I researched using Edmunds, MT, NASCAR AND CP. I have made 10 trips from Cally to GA, during summer, and I have not had any problems. Don't get caught up in the commercial hype, trust yourself.

I hate cars

Hands down, nothing better than the Amsoil EAO line of filters as backed by tons of independant tests. Nothing else comes close.

I hate cars

Amsoil and others usually don't apply for the "specialty" formulation specs as it's too expensive for a small market. Pennsoil Platinum is an awesome oil for it's price and is hard to beat but make no mistake Amsoil does show better wear numbers on average.

Royal Purple is crap if you're looking for protection as is proved with numerous UOAs. It has a much lower HTHS number than most oils in the same grade so you may get 2-5hp with it but you sacrifice wear for a couple hp.

I hate cars

I pretty much agree. If I were to run M1 in the TL, I would definately run the 30wt since it's already on the light side of a 30wt to start with. I'm running the Amsoil ACD 30/10-30 and love it. My UOA was amazing.

ChrisQ1980

In the past, I have had one Fram oil filter fail on me PH8A. It was on my Ford 3.8 V6. Everytime the car stopped at a light the oil light came on. Chatter on startup. I figured the motor was just old, and the oil pump was failing. Decided to change the oil and filter sooner. I used a Motorcraft filter and I believe Castrol GTX. Oil light went away, no start up chatter and the car was fine a year later when I sold it.

My friends mother had a Toyota Corolla. I believe it was a 1991. Same problem as with my Ford. So I suggested he change the oil and filter. We get under the car and sure enough it was a Fram oil filter. Put on a Toyota filter and the problem once again went away.

So on all my cars, I use either an OEM filter or now as of late Amsoil oil and filters. Wix is a good quality low cost filter if you don't want to spend big bucks on a filter.