Bent Valves Update...Acura Client care is useless!
10-23-2006, 09:35 AM
#81
Instructor
Thread Starter
NO it didn't pop due to poor engagement, it popped because there is somthing wrong and it shouldn't have. If you read the previous posts, I've had a problem this whole time. Apparently I'm not the only one with trans problems on the 6MT. I'm blaming the problem on the trans. If it never kicked me out I would have never mis shifted. YES, i messed up and put it in the wrong gear thinking it was 4th, but if the car shifted into 4th the way it was supposed to I wouldn't have had to try to get it back into gear.
10-23-2006, 10:30 AM
#82
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Just cause I wanna...
2nd gear from 3rd gear would mean pull the stick left and down... 4th gear would be straight down from 3rd gear. I'm under the assumption that "experienced" MT drivers know when their gear is in neutral, otherwise shit happens.
All the complaining aside, I'd stop and ask Acura if they can do a goodfaith repair. Reconsider getting AT if you really believe Acura is at fault. There are MT cars that are worse then Honda's MT.
2nd gear from 3rd gear would mean pull the stick left and down... 4th gear would be straight down from 3rd gear. I'm under the assumption that "experienced" MT drivers know when their gear is in neutral, otherwise shit happens.
All the complaining aside, I'd stop and ask Acura if they can do a goodfaith repair. Reconsider getting AT if you really believe Acura is at fault. There are MT cars that are worse then Honda's MT.
10-23-2006, 11:36 AM
#83
One on the right for me
Originally Posted by drtoth
I'm using that above example because Acura didn't tell him to shift into 2nd, but they did expect him to know better and intervene on the situation rather than actually do it.
Going to the above example, if the person did not shoot the paranoid schizophrenic, and called the police or mental institution, the situation would have been fixed. Same as this case, if the person shifting the car had not done something he should KNOW will bend his valves (manual all his life he should know that) and called or went to Acura before it happened and actually told them again, then MAYBE this situation would have been fixed.
Ok, but Acura did not tell him to shift into 2nd whereas the schizo told the actor to shoot. I agree that it is not Acura's fault, I am not sure your example makes sense. As I recall he did go to Acura about the 3rd gear problem.
10-23-2006, 12:19 PM
#85
Registered User
Originally Posted by Papaman677
NO it didn't pop due to poor engagement, it popped because there is somthing wrong and it shouldn't have. If you read the previous posts, I've had a problem this whole time. Apparently I'm not the only one with trans problems on the 6MT. I'm blaming the problem on the trans. If it never kicked me out I would have never mis shifted. YES, i messed up and put it in the wrong gear thinking it was 4th, but if the car shifted into 4th the way it was supposed to I wouldn't have had to try to get it back into gear.
10-23-2006, 02:25 PM
#86
Instructor
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by rbf351
still, 4th gear is straight down, what made you push the shifter to the left, then down?
10-23-2006, 02:33 PM
#87
AZ Community Team
The thread that just won't fade away...
Isn't it time the moderators lock this thread or move it off to problem area.
Isn't it time the moderators lock this thread or move it off to problem area.
10-23-2006, 03:11 PM
#88
I love cars!
Originally Posted by Papaman677
NO it didn't pop due to poor engagement, it popped because there is somthing wrong and it shouldn't have. If you read the previous posts, I've had a problem this whole time. Apparently I'm not the only one with trans problems on the 6MT. I'm blaming the problem on the trans. If it never kicked me out I would have never mis shifted. YES, i messed up and put it in the wrong gear thinking it was 4th, but if the car shifted into 4th the way it was supposed to I wouldn't have had to try to get it back into gear.
Tell me how you explain that part? You keep skipping righ tover that..
10-23-2006, 03:19 PM
#89
I love cars!
Originally Posted by Papaman677
After it sounded like a damn shot gun went off and my trans fell on the ground along with a grinding sound, cars coming up on me in the rear i just ended up grabing the shifter as fast as i could and put it into gear, the wrong one, but a gear. As for shifting to 5th or 6th like some others said, why would I upshift to 5th when I was actually going to 4th to accelerate? I took pictures of when I brought my car in for my trans. Not that it really matters but I figured I'd post it anyway...........scratch that, just tried to upload the pics through photobucket and it's not working.
1. 4th popped out
2. You already used 3rd, though I guess you could've gone back to it
3. going to 2nd would grenade the engine, which it did.
That leaves you 5th if you needed to keep accelerating, unless you wanted to try 4th a second time to be sure it engaged. Now you're starting to sound like you were out of options.
It may be time to lock this puppy up, since no lessons have been learned.
10-23-2006, 05:46 PM
#90
K-Fed's Stunt Double
Not only that Fast-tl, He continually denies fault.
Didn't his other post say he was revving the life out of 3rd gear? I don't see how you could be "spirited driving" your TL and then all off a sudden cars are in the back and front of you and it's traffic time...
Talk about inconsistent story, he'd fail as acriminal
Didn't his other post say he was revving the life out of 3rd gear? I don't see how you could be "spirited driving" your TL and then all off a sudden cars are in the back and front of you and it's traffic time...
Talk about inconsistent story, he'd fail as acriminal
10-23-2006, 06:36 PM
#91
Senior Moderator
Regions Leader
Regions Leader
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
The thread that just won't fade away...
Isn't it time the moderators lock this thread or move it off to problem area.
Isn't it time the moderators lock this thread or move it off to problem area.
well it is pretty interesting. there really hasnt been much flame throwing in here. Im surprised. That alone should be enough to keep this thread going...
10-23-2006, 09:42 PM
#92
WDP Director of R & D
Originally Posted by fast-tl
But SINCE YOU **DID** have to shift, it was on YOU to shift correctly. Whay do you keep glossing over that point? The other gears were not bloced ffrom your choosing.
Tell me how you explain that part? You keep skipping righ tover that..
I really AM starting to believe this is your 1st manual tranny. You would go to 5 because:
1. 4th popped out
2. You already used 3rd, though I guess you could've gone back to it
3. going to 2nd would grenade the engine, which it did.
That leaves you 5th if you needed to keep accelerating, unless you wanted to try 4th a second time to be sure it engaged. Now you're starting to sound like you were out of options.
Tell me how you explain that part? You keep skipping righ tover that..
I really AM starting to believe this is your 1st manual tranny. You would go to 5 because:
1. 4th popped out
2. You already used 3rd, though I guess you could've gone back to it
3. going to 2nd would grenade the engine, which it did.
That leaves you 5th if you needed to keep accelerating, unless you wanted to try 4th a second time to be sure it engaged. Now you're starting to sound like you were out of options.
So let me get this straight,,,,, All you folks that have had your 6MT's kick out or grind going into 3rd have stopped using 3rd due to your 5 other "choices"...? Most likely not.
Papaman was shifting from 3rd to 4th, 4th kicked him out. Like many of us would have done he attempted to select 4th again, yet "inadvertently" found 2nd. You 6MT masters can't tell me that every-time your trans pops out of a gear or grinds (for whatever reason) you think to yourself: that gear didn't work, I best try a different one... No, you attempt to shift into the gear again.. You may double clutch, shift in another gear then back and/or methodically think about your process, but non the less you try the gear again. This person did the same yet quickly, and ended up in 2nd..
Nothing here is so hard to understand.
- The question here isn't whether or not he screwed up.. That answer is surely yes - he shifted into 2nd. The question is whether Acura should foot the entire bill. From my experience - I would say partially.
- This then brings you to the next question: Why is Acura partially liable? -after all, it was Papaman who inadvertently shifted into 2nd, over-revving the engine.. BUT, you must think about the simple "fact" - he wouldn't have ended up in 2nd if the trans hadn't of had an issue with 4th, the root cause..
Why did I feel compelled to post again.... Not quite sure... Did I mention my TL's an automatic (my first).
10-24-2006, 07:23 AM
#93
I love cars!
^^ You haven't read closely the whole thread, I can see. To "inadvertantly find second (down and left) requires MORE effort than going from 3rd to 4th (striaght down.) This point has been raised a few times.
I *DO* agree that the pre-exisitng transmission problem contributed to the whole situation. The root cause of the bent valves is the misshift, not the trans issue. If the faulty trans was the root cause, then ALL transmissions that pop out of gear would have the same result: missed shifts and bent valves. Again, I say your cause>effect logic is weak.
I *DO* agree that the pre-exisitng transmission problem contributed to the whole situation. The root cause of the bent valves is the misshift, not the trans issue. If the faulty trans was the root cause, then ALL transmissions that pop out of gear would have the same result: missed shifts and bent valves. Again, I say your cause>effect logic is weak.
10-24-2006, 09:18 AM
#94
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You have to deal with facts:
a. The transmission did not pop out of 4th gear because it was never in 4th gear. The grinding sound was the engagement dogs not engaging. This causes a kick back into neutral.
b. There are three possible reasons for not being able to engage 4th gear:
1. Driver error - poor timing on the clutch and gear selector - very common.
2. Bad syncros on 4th - would still allow a rough shift to happen - would also be felt on all shifts to 4th (if badly worn) and on all fast shifts (if mildly worn).
3. Loose of bent shifting forks in the transmission - this can cause grinding if the dogs are not pushed in far enough and pop outs. Loose or bent shifter linkage does the same thing.
If Papaman feels Acura has any role in this problem he should have his dealer disassemble his transmission and shift linkage to determine if reasons #2 and #3 exist and if they do are not the result of blatant user damage.
If #2 and/or #3 exist and are attributed to defect you now have a leg to stand on and I would fault you less for slamming it into 2nd gear because bent forks and /or shifter linkage can lead to mis shifts.
BTW I would make a deal with my dealer that I would pay for the work if the linkages, forks and syncros were in spec and they would pay for it if they weren't (assuming no blatant user damage).
Bottom line show the dealer you're prepared to back up your claim and ask them to back up theirs.
a. The transmission did not pop out of 4th gear because it was never in 4th gear. The grinding sound was the engagement dogs not engaging. This causes a kick back into neutral.
b. There are three possible reasons for not being able to engage 4th gear:
1. Driver error - poor timing on the clutch and gear selector - very common.
2. Bad syncros on 4th - would still allow a rough shift to happen - would also be felt on all shifts to 4th (if badly worn) and on all fast shifts (if mildly worn).
3. Loose of bent shifting forks in the transmission - this can cause grinding if the dogs are not pushed in far enough and pop outs. Loose or bent shifter linkage does the same thing.
If Papaman feels Acura has any role in this problem he should have his dealer disassemble his transmission and shift linkage to determine if reasons #2 and #3 exist and if they do are not the result of blatant user damage.
If #2 and/or #3 exist and are attributed to defect you now have a leg to stand on and I would fault you less for slamming it into 2nd gear because bent forks and /or shifter linkage can lead to mis shifts.
BTW I would make a deal with my dealer that I would pay for the work if the linkages, forks and syncros were in spec and they would pay for it if they weren't (assuming no blatant user damage).
Bottom line show the dealer you're prepared to back up your claim and ask them to back up theirs.
10-24-2006, 02:21 PM
#95
WDP Director of R & D
Originally Posted by fast-tl
^^ You haven't read closely the whole thread, I can see. To "inadvertantly find second (down and left) requires MORE effort than going from 3rd to 4th (striaght down.) This point has been raised a few times.
- Hence why I said "inadvertently" - no argument "he" was in the wrong gear. But once again, completely understandable given his "described" scenario/heat of the moment etc.. I would bet he also knew near immediately that he went into 2nd yet that bit of info wasn't transmitted from brain to left foot in time for the clutch to NOT be engaged... :-)
I *DO* agree that the pre-existing transmission problem contributed to the whole situation. The root cause of the bent valves is the misshift, not the trans issue. If the faulty trans was the root cause, then ALL transmissions that pop out of gear would have the same result: missed shifts and bent valves. Again, I say your cause>effect logic is weak.
Your first sentence completely contradicts the rest of your paragraph (and by the way your, basically stating its the root cause). Reading/writing comprehension is key..
Would every-ones transmission popping out of 4th result in bent valves? Not at all. Like most mishaps, its situational given the variables of different drivers and scenarios..
- Hence why I said "inadvertently" - no argument "he" was in the wrong gear. But once again, completely understandable given his "described" scenario/heat of the moment etc.. I would bet he also knew near immediately that he went into 2nd yet that bit of info wasn't transmitted from brain to left foot in time for the clutch to NOT be engaged... :-)
I *DO* agree that the pre-existing transmission problem contributed to the whole situation. The root cause of the bent valves is the misshift, not the trans issue. If the faulty trans was the root cause, then ALL transmissions that pop out of gear would have the same result: missed shifts and bent valves. Again, I say your cause>effect logic is weak.
Your first sentence completely contradicts the rest of your paragraph (and by the way your, basically stating its the root cause). Reading/writing comprehension is key..
Would every-ones transmission popping out of 4th result in bent valves? Not at all. Like most mishaps, its situational given the variables of different drivers and scenarios..
Just a bit of analyzing - of which I truly believe way to much has been put into this topic..
Hopefully it will work out for both parties involved.
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