When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
After 14 years of faithful and trouble free driving my beloved '07 TL Type-S 6MT will soon be moving on to a new owner. It's covered a good bit of the US East of the Rockies on various driving vacations. North to Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia, across the Midwest to Wyoming, and pretty much everywhere East of the Mississippi down to New Orleans.
I had been looking forward to replacing it with the new Type-S, but disappointment with it's lack of popular features, poor color combination choices and somewhat anemic performance by modern standards has caused me to move on to another brand. It's the first time since 1988 that we will be purchasing anything other than a Honda or Acura as a family car.
[QUOTE=sockr1;16766115]
(snip)
how do you feel overall about switching from manual to auto after all these years?
[/QUOTE/
It'll certainly be a life change. My first car was a '59 MGA and every car since has been a manual. My daily driver before the '07 Type-S 6MT was an '88 Jaguar XJ-S V-12 convertible. It came with a GM TH400, a dreadful choice for that car. I replaced it with a Tremec 5speed and swapped the 2:88 rear gears for a 4:54 set. These days with all the transmissions and engines interoperating electronically that level of hotrodding is no longer feasible.
(snip)
what color combo did you end up getting? and please put up pics when it comes! (or maybe some teasers from your build configurator...)
Honda/Acura have a long tradition of comparatively anemic performance numbers, and low grade tech, but at a lower price point than the competition.
Your Type S wasn't a complete outlier to that statement in 2007. But look at how well its aged and how much you've loved it for its usability and engagement.
Acura's almost always turn out to be fantastic cars to actually drive.
I would go drive a new Type S before deciding it is disappointing. Most reviewers that have actually driven one say positive things about it.
Congrats! 14 years is a long time in car ownership!
I'm at 12 years of 2006 TL ownership!
what brands were thinking of moving to?
I ordered a BMW M550ix with some Individual choices. (If you don't like the standard paint or interior choices you can pick from a library of 100+ paints and many leather types and colors. If you don't like those choices and have a fat wallet they'll paint it any color your want and make just about any interior you can imagine.)
I just received approval for my requests from the M Studio yesterday. In addition to the three weeks to send the request to Germany via BMWNA and get approval the car will be shipped from the Dingolfing plant to the M Studio for the Individual items and back to Dingolfing to finish up. That will take up to another month, so some patience will be required on my part.
Honda/Acura have a long tradition of comparatively anemic performance numbers, and low grade tech, but at a lower price point than the competition.
Your Type S wasn't a complete outlier to that statement in 2007. But look at how well its aged and how much you've loved it for its usability and engagement.
Acura's almost always turn out to be fantastic cars to actually drive.
I would go drive a new Type S before deciding it is disappointing. Most reviewers that have actually driven one say positive things about it.
I did go drive one, since I had been waiting through a couple of years of breathless marketing hype and fully intended to purchase one. I drove the 2021 right after I drove my '07 to the dealer.
After all the performance bragging the actual HP numbers were low compared to what I expected for a 2021 performance sedan and the "butt dyno" feel was not what I had hoped for. But I was unprepared for its size and especially its weight, which eats up some of that new HP. The car is also a bit off at higher speeds. The ports are very small,, no doubt engineered that way to keep the Turbo spinning faster at lower rpms. Clearly that part works well, the torque curve is very flat, with the turbo kicking it immediately. But while it helps the 0-60 (but not enough to overcome the weight) it strangles the engine at the top.
But that wasn't the deal breaker. The limited color choices didn't appeal to me, ones that did appeal are on the regular TLX and Accords, but not the Type-S. It also lacks tech that is found on the regular TLX with the Advance package as well as the upper level Accords. No heated steering wheel or 360 camera, both of which are standard on the Canadian ones. (Yeah, I know the heated wheel is a dealer accessory, but go read the installation instructions. It requires a lot of disassembly, more than I want done to my brand new car. Plus the kit isn't inexpensive. No HUD, which in the TLX Advance pkg and higher level Accords (e.g. the Touriing)
All in all, I was disappointed. When I left the dealer in my '07 Type-S I drove straight to a local BMW dealer and drove a BMW for the first time, a 540ix, which is almost identical in size and weight. My wife and I were both impressed with the 5 series. We kicked the idea around for a few months and decided to buy a BMW M550ix. I actually ordered it the 28th of Sept. It's considerably more expensive, largely because I just couldn't resist the temptation of a powerful V-8 and 523HP.
Congratulations, now you will find out that 1 quart of oil consumption of 1000 miles (sometimes 600 miles) is the norm according to the BMW factory specification, and it costs more than $ 6000 to replace the timing chain every 100-150 thousand miles. I also like BMWs, but unfortunately their modern resources are limited to 100К. miles.
OP totally understand your points. To me the TLX-S was a half ass design car, looks like someone trying to work on it and be like.... nah its good enough.
The weight is one and the fact that 10spd has a death spot at launch are stupid. Not to mention that 6200 RPM redline
I did go drive one, since I had been waiting through a couple of years of breathless marketing hype and fully intended to purchase one. I drove the 2021 right after I drove my '07 to the dealer.
After all the performance bragging the actual HP numbers were low compared to what I expected for a 2021 performance sedan and the "butt dyno" feel was not what I had hoped for. But I was unprepared for its size and especially its weight, which eats up some of that new HP. The car is also a bit off at higher speeds. The ports are very small,, no doubt engineered that way to keep the Turbo spinning faster at lower rpms. Clearly that part works well, the torque curve is very flat, with the turbo kicking it immediately. But while it helps the 0-60 (but not enough to overcome the weight) it strangles the engine at the top.
But that wasn't the deal breaker. The limited color choices didn't appeal to me, ones that did appeal are on the regular TLX and Accords, but not the Type-S. It also lacks tech that is found on the regular TLX with the Advance package as well as the upper level Accords. No heated steering wheel or 360 camera, both of which are standard on the Canadian ones. (Yeah, I know the heated wheel is a dealer accessory, but go read the installation instructions. It requires a lot of disassembly, more than I want done to my brand new car. Plus the kit isn't inexpensive. No HUD, which in the TLX Advance pkg and higher level Accords (e.g. the Touriing)
All in all, I was disappointed. When I left the dealer in my '07 Type-S I drove straight to a local BMW dealer and drove a BMW for the first time, a 540ix, which is almost identical in size and weight. My wife and I were both impressed with the 5 series. We kicked the idea around for a few months and decided to buy a BMW M550ix. I actually ordered it the 28th of Sept. It's considerably more expensive, largely because I just couldn't resist the temptation of a powerful V-8 and 523HP.
Totally understand your point in regards to the TLX-S. Drove one when it first dropped at our dealerships and was not impressed. I had high hopes as I wanted to potentially lease one if I enjoyed it. Acura makes good cars but there's definitely other brands that are more performance oriented and offer a better range of options.
Congratulations, now you will find out that 1 quart of oil consumption of 1000 miles (sometimes 600 miles) is the norm according to the BMW factory specification, and it costs more than $ 6000 to replace the timing chain every 100-150 thousand miles. I also like BMWs, but unfortunately their modern resources are limited to 100К. miles.
I ordered a BMW M550ix with some Individual choices. (If you don't like the standard paint or interior choices you can pick from a library of 100+ paints and many leather types and colors. If you don't like those choices and have a fat wallet they'll paint it any color your want and make just about any interior you can imagine.)
I just received approval for my requests from the M Studio yesterday. In addition to the three weeks to send the request to Germany via BMWNA and get approval the car will be shipped from the Dingolfing plant to the M Studio for the Individual items and back to Dingolfing to finish up. That will take up to another month, so some patience will be required on my part.
what a badass car!!!
congrats and enjoy it in great health!!!
when you do get it, dont forget to update us with pictures!!!!
Let he telling that BS story. Isn't Honda consider normal for the 3.7 burning about a quart per 1200 miles? But then what do i know.....
Acura said anything up to 1 quart for 1000 miles is normal. But at least for a time they rebuild for free the engine with new parts for any 3.7 regardless of age or milage if it burnt more than that. Pretty sure such a policy would bankrupt BMW lol.
Acura said anything up to 1 quart for 1000 miles is normal. But at least for a time they rebuild for free the engine with new parts for any 3.7 regardless of age or milage if it burnt more than that. Pretty sure such a policy would bankrupt BMW lol.
BMW M550ix is like $100k
and that is just the BASE version.
they aint going anywhere even if they did have to replace a few engines.. lol
congrats!! that's such an amazing car and you've had your time with the type s so it's well deserved for sure. how do you feel overall about switching from manual to auto after all these years? it's still hard for me to give up a manual after driving one for 22 years (truck was manual prior to my current type s). i agree with everythign you said about the new type s, it was a disappointment for me as well, if it's the type s it should have all the bells and whistles and be the top car like it was back in 2007-2008. i wish it had the 360 camera and the HUD as well. the back seat seemed a little small for me to fit 2 car seats in as well.
i've been heavily researching bmws to replace my 08 type s manual that i bought new back then, and the m550 at one time was on my radar. it's a phenomenal car and bmw has greatly changed it's reliability the last few years!! i am currently settled on replacing my type s with a manual 2017 m3 but the used car prices are insane right now so i'm fixing small items on my type s until the m3's come down to about 40/45 (currently 55-60). hopefully by late 2023 i can join you on the bmw side haha
what color combo did you end up getting? and please put up pics when it comes! (or maybe some teasers from your build configurator...)
Acura said anything up to 1 quart for 1000 miles is normal. But at least for a time they rebuild for free the engine with new parts for any 3.7 regardless of age or mileage if it burnt more than that. Pretty sure such a policy would bankrupt BMW lol.
I guess the time for "regardless of mileage" already expired tho, so if any one here on out gotta rebuild their engine its on the owner (unless those still under the mileage limit) but then again Acura didn't sell enough of these 3.7 to begin with hence why they perform the recall.
At one quart per 1k miles why even changing oil? Just keep driving 5k miles equal 5 quarts that more than the entire oil change =X
they aint going anywhere even if they did have to replace a few engines.. lol
oh yeah it's a totally different class of car for a totally different class of person. Even when compared to the new type s and that's a great thing to upgrade to. A lot of ppl are hung up on Acura vs Audi, Japanese vs German but it's really just a natural upgrade for people who are advancing in their lives and careers. Younger people will gravitate towards the perceived more reliable Japanese and naturally upgrade as they are able. Which Acura does not offer much in that direction.
I'm just pointing out that Honda did a huge amount to fix their mistake around excess oil consumption. Obviously BMW wouldn't literallty go bankrupt. But I'm not sure what exactly they do about excess oil consumption.
They are like any other auto manufacturer, they will fix mistakes too.
Oh well I don't know much on the BMW oil consumption subject so I may have missed all their warranty extensions where they rebuilt engines for free for burning oil but I thought they generally just said it was normal.
Congratulations, now you will find out that 1 quart of oil consumption of 1000 miles (sometimes 600 miles) is the norm according to the BMW factory specification, and it costs more than $ 6000 to replace the timing chain every 100-150 thousand miles. I also like BMWs, but unfortunately their modern resources are limited to 100К. miles.
You may like BMWs, but you don't know what you're talking about.
Since the big disappointment in May I spent four months researching them since I had never previously owned or even driven one. Like most manufacturers, the timing chain is a "lifetime" item. According to the BMW mechanics on the top two BMW websites the only issue is very high mileage cars will sometimes stretch the chain enough to reach the limit of the tensioner. Only one reported an actual break and that was a result of over revving a "tuned" engine.
BMWs certainly have problems, like every other car manufacturer. The usual problems are related to the abundance of modern gadgets.
[QUOTE=sockr1;16766115]
(snip)
how do you feel overall about switching from manual to auto after all these years?
[/QUOTE/
It'll certainly be a life change. My first car was a '59 MGA and every car since has been a manual. My daily driver before the '07 Type-S 6MT was an '88 Jaguar XJ-S V-12 convertible. It came with a GM TH400, a dreadful choice for that car. I replaced it with a Tremec 5speed and swapped the 2:88 rear gears for a 4:54 set. These days with all the transmissions and engines interoperating electronically that level of hotrodding is no longer feasible.
(snip)
what color combo did you end up getting? and please put up pics when it comes! (or maybe some teasers from your build configurator...)
great choice! Hope she brings you lots of joy! As you can see many can't live for the happiness of others have have to bring them down. My 760 goes through a quart every 1K miles after I've got about 5K on the oil. Either way not that big of a deal vs a quart every gas fill up!
Congratulations, now you will find out that 1 quart of oil consumption of 1000 miles (sometimes 600 miles) is the norm according to the BMW factory specification, and it costs more than $ 6000 to replace the timing chain every 100-150 thousand miles. I also like BMWs, but unfortunately their modern resources are limited to 100К. miles.
<--------- This guy owns a 2009 BMW E93 335i with 175k miles and a 2014 F10 M5 with 110k miles...it seems I'm not properly living up to your imagined 100k mile limitation.
<--------- This guy owns a 2009 BMW E93 335i with 175k miles and a 2014 F10 M5 with 110k miles...it seems I'm not properly living up to your imagined 100k mile limitation.
None of the cars listed by you listed have an N63 engine
(snip)
how do you feel overall about switching from manual to auto after all these years?
[/QUOTE/
It'll certainly be a life change. My first car was a '59 MGA and every car since has been a manual. My daily driver before the '07 Type-S 6MT was an '88 Jaguar XJ-S V-12 convertible. It came with a GM TH400, a dreadful choice for that car. I replaced it with a Tremec 5speed and swapped the 2:88 rear gears for a 4:54 set. These days with all the transmissions and engines interoperating electronically that level of hotrodding is no longer feasible.
(snip)
These are from the BMW Individual configurator:
Aventurine Red Full Carmel Merino leather
Congratulations again! you made a very fine choice. BMW's are such incredible vehicles. I own two of them. Hope you and your wife enjoy it!
Congratulations, now you will find out that 1 quart of oil consumption of 1000 miles (sometimes 600 miles) is the norm according to the BMW factory specification, and it costs more than $ 6000 to replace the timing chain every 100-150 thousand miles. I also like BMWs, but unfortunately their modern resources are limited to 100К. miles.
OP ordered a brand new M550 so he will own the N63TU3 engine, which is on it's 3rd revision. It's reliable and his BMW is way better than the TLX-S which is an overpriced joke of a vehicle.
BMW N63 vs N63TU vs N63TU2 vs N63TU3
Posted by: Zach Mayock / Updated on: October 4, 2021BMW is showing their commitment to the N63. The N63 was released in 2008 and remains in production as of 2020. However, the N63 is almost a completely different engine compared to 12 years ago. Really, the only thing that hasn't changed is the 4.4L twin turbo V8 design. Let's dive in and examine the differences between the various N63 engines. Pin
BMW N63 Engine Codes
To avoid any confusion, the breakdown of N63 engines is as follows:
N63B44O0 - (N63)
N63B44O1 - (N63TU)
N63B44O2 - (N63TU2)
N63B44M3 - (N63TU3)
N63B44T3 - (N63TU3)
Let's just focus on the last two characters rather than doing a full examination of BMW engine codes. The second to last characters represent output as follows:
S - Super
T - Top
O - Upper (Obere)
M - Medium (Mittel)
U - Lower (Unterste)
K - Reduced (Kleiner)
In this case, the N63 only features medium, upper, and top "power levels". Finally, the last digit represents technical updates (TU):
0 = original design
1 = technical update 1 (TU)
2 = technical update 2 (TU2)
So on
You get the picture. The number simply represents the number of technical updates since the original design. Sorry to go off track for a moment, but hopefully this helps some differentiate the various N63's. Now, back on track.
BMW N63B44O0 - Original N63 DesignN63B44O0 Horsepower: 402 hp (300kW)
N63B44O0 Torque: 443 lb-ft (600 N-m)
Years: 2009-2013
Many are probably familiar with the original N63. It's almost a horror story. Actually, it is a horror story. The original N63 may be one of, if not, the least reliable BMW engines in history. BMW went as far to offer a "customer care package" for N63 owners. The N63 customer care package had dealerships look into the following issues on ALL N63B44O0 engines:
Timing chain
Fuel injectors
Mass air flow sensors
Crankcase vent lines
Battery
Vacuum pump
Low pressure fuel sensor
The above issues were essentially recalls even though BMW gave it another name. As such, these issues were fixed on BMW's dime, regardless of warranty. BMW also shortened the service/check-up interval to every 1 year or 10,000 miles. BMW dealerships even offered extra incentives such as trade-in cash bonuses. Long story short - these N63's had some serious common problems. Fortunately, BMW did their best to mitigate and resolve issues and keep N63 owners as happy as possible. Still, we can't imagine this was fun for original N63's.
There isn't much else to say here. Many of the original N63's on the road should be 'cured' by now. Nonetheless, be cautious if you're looking to buy an N63B44O0.
BMW N63B44O1 - N63TU Technical UpdateN63B44O1 Horsepower: 444 hp (331kW)
N63B44O1 Torque: 479 lb-ft (650 N-m)
Years: 2013-2019
Following the disastrous start, BMW began producing the N63TU in 2012. Though still an N63, the N63TU is almost an entirely different engine. It remains a 4.4L twin turbo V8 but sees a 42 horsepower increase. However, the power gain seems to be mostly on paper. Dyno testing has shown the N63 and N63TU put down similar numbers to the wheels. The N63TU engine does show a nice boost in torque, though. Aside from the power differences, other notable changes include:
Updated VANOS, adopted from N55
New valve cover with updated crankcase ventilation
Pistons updated
Forged rods and crank
Timing chain updated
Oil spray nozzles for piston crown cooling
Intake manifold updated
MAP and charge air temperature sensors updated, adopted from N20
Low pressure fuel sensor deleted
New fuel injectors and HPFP
Second coolant pump added
Vacuum pump updated
New turbochargers
Addition of Valvetronic
This is far from an exhaustive list of the changes on the N63TU. Nonetheless, as we stated, this is almost a completely different engine. The list is already insane as is. Nearly every part on the N63TU was re-designed compared to the N63. As you can see, all of the problematic areas on the original N63 were updated with new components and/or designs. Additionally, the N63TU receives stronger, forged rods and crank.
Despite the similar power numbers from the factory, the N63TU should be better suited to mods and increased boost. Additionally, this was a massive reliability improvement over the N63. The N63TU is not an unreliable engine with tons of common problems. Still expect the standard BMW problems such as gasket oil leaks, cooling system, etc, especially as the N63TU ages. However, the N63TU is a pretty reliable engine overall.
BMW N63B44O2 - N63TU2 Technical Update 2
N63B44O2 Horsepower: 444 hp (331kW)
N63B44O2 Torque: 479 lb-ft (650 N-m)
Years: 2016-2019
Given the N63TU was a drastic improvement, the N63TU2 did not have too much to improve upon. Peak power and torque remain the same, however the N63TU2 benefits from a wider power band. This is primarily due to the switch to efficient twin-scroll turbochargers. A few of the updates include:
Twin-scroll turbochargers
Exhaust optimized for minimal back-pressure
Oil/Coolant heat exchanged moved to "V" of the engine
Partial integration of intake and cylinder head (weight savings)
VANOS taken over from modular B series engines
Again, this is not an exhaustive list. There are some other minor updates, mostly to accommodate the above changes. Expect N63TU2 reliability to be more or less the same as the N63TU.
The N63TU2 takes another step in the right direction when it comes to modding, tuning, and increasing boost. When modded, the efficient twin-scroll turbos should add a bit of peak power with a more impressive power band. Overall, the N63TU2 is an excellent engine.
BMW N63B44M3 - N63TU3 Technical Update 3N63B44M3 Horsepower: 456 hp (340kW)
N63B44M3 Torque: 479 lb-ft (650 N-m)
Years: 2018-present
Looking at the middle output version of the third technical update, the N63TU3 receives a few performance and emission related updates. The middle output version features the same twin-scroll turbos from the N63TU2. However, it receives an "over-boost" function. This is basically BMW's way of saying the ECU is "tuned" for an increase in boost pressure. As such, the N63TU3 sees a minor bump in power. Other notable updates include:
New higher-pressure fuel system
Improved thermal shielding
Valve stem seals updated
Forged rods carried over from S63TU2
A few other updates accommodate the above changes. The higher-pressure fuel system is intended to support just over 5,000psi (350 bar), compared to the previous 2,900 psi (200 bar). Thermal shielding is intended to provide better cooling. Additionally, valve stem seals are updated with new materials to help prevent hardening.
Although power sees a bump, expect mods to have similar effects as with the N63TU2. The higher-pressure fuel system may support a bit of additional power. However, the new fuel system is mostly geared towards emissions benefits.
The top tier version of the N63TU3 is quite impressive. It produces a staggering 523 horsepower and 553 torque. Notice, this is the same torque output as the impressive S63 M engines. Updates are similar to the middle output version. Although, the upper output version gets some stronger, beefier components to support the power. Updates include:
**Also includes above TU3 updates, but we do not mention them here to avoid duplicates
Electric arc wire sprayed cylinder walls
Piston skirt coating
Crankshaft re-balanced with new main bearing shells
Forged rods from S63TU4
Larger turbochargers with electrical blow-off valves
Updated ignition system, taken from modular B series engines
The top power N63TU3 receives a few extra updates over the middle output version. Cylinder walls receive arc spraying for strength and durability. Pistons are coated to accommodate the cylinder walls update. The crankshaft is lightened and strengthened. N63TU3 forged rods are carried over from the 591 horsepower S63TU4. Larger turbochargers are responsible for the significant increase in power and torque. Finally, the ignition system is updated to support the new found power.
As evidenced, this update is almost all to do with power. New, larger turbos produce impressive numbers. The N63TU3 is mod happy and is a strong engine designed to handle the power and torque. Excellent update and beautiful engine.
BMW N63 Final Thoughts
From one of the least reliable BMW engines to one of the most underrated BMW engines. BMW experienced early issues with the original N63. Fortunately, customer care packages dampen the troubles. Furthermore, issues were resolved with the release of the N63TU. This engine was basically a complete re-design of the N63. The N63TU2 takes another step forward with the change to efficient twin-scroll turbos.
Finally, the newest N63 is an all around excellent engine that doesn't get the respect is deserves. The top output version makes highly impressive power with the strength to back it up. We're surprised BMW didn't put the N63 name in its past after the tragic start. Original N63's and updated N63's share few parts. However, BMW has shown their commitment to the N63. Today, it is one of the most impressive, underrated BMW engines.
No, I just have a N54 and a S63...read up on those.
Good for you, N54 is a good engine. I know a lot of mechanics in Russia who make a lot of money rebuilds the N63, this engine is the most unreliable garbage that BMW has ever made.
Congrats! 14 years is a long time in car ownership!
I'm at 12 years of 2006 TL ownership!
17½ years. 349K miles and STILL on the original engine and trans. Not burning a drop of oil to boot!
I think I've you both (and most here on AZine) beat.
.
.
Congrats on the M550Xi order, post pics when you take delivery.
Nice color combination
[QUOTE=mike03a3;16766174]
Originally Posted by sockr1
(snip)
how do you feel overall about switching from manual to auto after all these years?
[/QUOTE/
It'll certainly be a life change. My first car was a '59 MGA and every car since has been a manual. My daily driver before the '07 Type-S 6MT was an '88 Jaguar XJ-S V-12 convertible. It came with a GM TH400, a dreadful choice for that car. I replaced it with a Tremec 5speed and swapped the 2:88 rear gears for a 4:54 set. These days with all the transmissions and engines interoperating electronically that level of hotrodding is no longer feasible.
(snip)
As to BMW oil consumption here's my very brief experience. Rented a relatively new (~500 miles) 2013 F01/N55 740i in Miami.
After ~1k miles and a week of driving the maintenance/infotainment display indicated it needed a quart of oil.
I did like the online electronic owners manual , but was annoyed there's no manual dipstick to check level.
So that's one sample, YMMV
My brother's has/had 6 BMW's, so curious how his 2015 Alpina B6 will hold up (those two turbo's in the back of the V), BMW reliability has gotten alot better from the 2000's and early 2010's
10-20-2021, 09:27 AM
Pin
No, I just have a N54 and a S63...read up on those.
, but was annoyed there's no manual dipstick to check level. 
