I could walk it , just like i walked this g37 a few times
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ1hCg3Ymlc
This is a 13.8 run I did at 103 somethin with a high 2.3 0-60ft.

 

Oh I know, that's why the fat camera man needs to be in the G.

 

Stop it. All TL's are dogs. Don't you read the magazines?

 

And this is the truth! Starting to seem once again that every other thread is against how do I etc do against a VQ35/37 "Nissan" MFG'D product from 02-11.......So many other cars out their, jus' sayn'..........

 

The issue is, that is only one set of data, those cars could run again and we get a different set of data, then change the tester or driver and we get yet another set of data. Also all that test info is from zero, there is nothing from a roll.

The data also doesn't account for things that happen in real world scenarios. In a street race, reaction time does not get taken out of the equation and all factors are not necessarily made to be as equal as possible.

And I wouldn't doubt that the G is faster, especially in a 1/4 mile but some of you guys act like no TL can beat a G in real life race situations when it happens everyday, since it's usually a driver's race. Cars don't run any kind of time or trap without a driver. Therefore when two cars perform similarly enough based on certain types of information yet the biggest deciding factor is still the driver, the info doesn't mean a whole lot more.

In this case, stats, data, 1/4 mile this, and trap that mean nothing unless it's a controlled test situation and environment. No one is arguing how much data suggests car A is faster than car B but that is the farthest thing form the point of the thread yet some of you guys seem to always make it about that. May I ask why?

 

Show me the ultimate best reported 1/4 mile times for NA TL/TLS and I assure you there will be many NA Gs and Zs going quicker. It's not all about the mags, but how can you really argue with 60mph to 120mph data? It takes no skill to do a run like that. The fact is the VQ35HR and VQ37HR are just more powerful and flexible motors.

 

No doubt driver plays a huge roll here. ET is largely driver and traction dependant. MPH is not and is hardly variable, regardless of driving. MPH shows available power and ET potential under ideal driving. If car A goes 14.0@101mph and car B goes 14.2@111mph, we can safely deduce that car B is the faster and more powerful car, but it's clear driving and/or traction was a problem.

At the strip, I've beaten LS1 F-bodies and other fast cars to the finish many times. These cars should be going 13.4s@105mph easily. However, the driver had a much slower reaction time (.8s vs my .5s) and they pussy-footed the launch (2.3s vs my 2.1s). If you were sitting on the sidelines, it would appear as if my G was the faster the car. It's not though, not by a long shot. Even with the bad driving, the LS1 cars would still post quicker ETs and faster MPHs even though I was to the finish first. I'm not going to kid myself into thinking my G is an LS killer.

 

for a car that starts at $37,000 for a base model.. they god damn better be quicker than a honda.

if i bought a base model corvette with an LS3... i would hope it would shit on G's as well...

i dont think the original question was "is my acura faster than said G on paper"
its more of a "can i beat him" and the answer to that is yes, with either superior driving skills or minor modifications..

/

 

^i'm happy for what the TL is.

 

I'd agree 1 second is a relatively big difference from 60-120. But an 8 car difference? Come on Dave. The G is the faster car and should win, but 8 cars from 60-120?

First off, the G is at the very bottom of 3rd at 60 since 2nd ends at 69mph, judging by the graph. If anything, the G will have 1 car by 100, and maybe 2.5-3 cars by 120.

I think a 50mph roll would be worse than a 60 though. That's right in the G's powerband in 2nd, which stretches to almost 70mph. When the TL shifts to 3rd, the G will be pulling hard in 2nd. The same for the 3-4 shift for the TL, except the G will still be in 3rd.

This is a drivers race, not a 2011 GT vs a TL 6MT. In no way, shape, or form will there be an 8 car difference, unless you miss 3rd AND 4th.

 

Who's arguing any data? I must have missed something. My red post was directed at the general opinion that G's are so ridiculously fast that a modded 6MT TL can't beat one which is hardly the case. Some people act like they're Z06 fast.

I agree the G is the quicker car overall, but in stock form at a 101-103 trap they're not really that fast.

 

there is a guy that eats breakfast across the street from my shop every morning.

he owns a stock g35 sedan.

he religiously writes in white window paint between "12.3 - 12.5" 1/4 mile times.
it has been confirmed his car is factory.

it gives me the lols

 

who ever thinks g35 are fast need to take a look at some more drag slips like go to dragtimes and browse some slips. Most g35 6 manual trans stock trap about 100. look at modded 6 speed g35s and they are trapping about 103. I can trap 103 with about the same modds. our engines just need to breath. Also I have raced a few 350z 6 speeds that I have put 2 or 3 car lengths on them to 100.

 

.

 

What data is that? Yes I will argue that data if you are talking about the R&T comparo because it doesn't start at 60 mph then go to 120 mph, it's start at 0. You are only comparing the 60 to 120 numbers from a dig not a roll.

 

No one said they are fast. What they are saying is, for the most part, they are faster than the TL 6MT. This is in fact true.

Dragtimes doesn't have all the data available. There are many people on forums that don't post on Dragtimes. I don't think I'm on there myself. Also, the sedans are lighter than the coupes.

Your trap is very good. You should get a tune (J&R) and watch the trap numbers climb and ET drop With equal drivers though, the G will win 9/10 times.

LOL @ Rockstar. That's great. Tell him to run an LS3 Vette and report back to you with the results.

 

it happens with every car...

but since we're talking about G's i thought it was relevant

maybe i'll race him someday and when i beat him i'll say "yea, im high 11's most of the time so thats why i beat you"

 

Generally yes, you can safely assume it is the faster 1/4 mile car, but trap speed indicates how fast the car is going when it crosses the line (actually it happens before which creates more of a problem), it doesn't measure anything more or after the fact and acceleration differences do in fact happen after that point. If we had 1/2 mile tracks we would see a lot of this, it's just a concept people are not used to.

That is not as solid a rule as you think and everyone needs to come to terms with it. An example I am all too familar with is that my TL SH 6MT is a better trap and 1/4 mile car than my old TLS 6MT but it will lose to it from a roll eventually and also any speed to 130 mph (equal drivers and what not) and not because of the limiter differences either. Clealry it is due to the AWD and weight but nontheless it doesn't fit the traditional timeslip assumptions.

Also ET and traps are affected by staging and I can quote you as having said so yourself. RWD's can manipulate this process the best due to launching, giving them an even further or double advantage than AWD and FWD. The whole process of drag racing and the way things are timed or measured, lends a big hand to RWD but it's represented much better on paper than in real life.

Depending on the degree of staging, one can create a significant mph head start before any measuring or timing is being done. This lengthens the track, can shorten ET, and raise trap speeds. Someone who knows how to create the best running start possible without triggering the clock can manipulate their car's on paper abilities. RWD does this the best, AWD would be the worst, followed by FWD.

But, and it's a big but, the effective launching and staging that can be done to reflect better numbers usually comes at the expense of reaction time, at least that is how it is represented anyway, which would otherwise kill one in a real race.

We all know in the drag and magazine world the focus is on the time, not the race, so reaction is rarely taken into account but while a car like a G can acheive those numbers because it is quick but also with the help of this process or manipulation, a car like a TL that performs similarly but based on the numbers is a little behind, will already be off and running in a real race, not a time race.

That is why we often see a discrepancy between times and real races when comparing these two cars, sure there are other variables as well and I am not necessarily saying the car is not as fast as it is made out to be, just that there is a grey area here when dealing with times and magazines, and when the focus is to race and beat the guy next to you and not to just achieve the best time, things change and we wouldn't see such glorified numbers as we do, they would be a lot closer.

 

I agree the g will win if it is stock vs stock but I dont believe a g35 or 350z will beat me if we were equal driver and similar mods. I would say The only way would be from a dig since I cant launch for shit with out wheel hop. Now if we had equal 0-60ft times I would say i could take them.

 

The race is tonight. I'll post the video tomorrow.

 

Awesome. Be safe!

 

a TL-S 6MT, fully bolted on (even one minus exhaust) will slowly walk away from a stock G37S 6MT. trust me. haha

YOU HAVE A SHOT!

 

Yes, about 8 cars. This race is really no different in terms of time than a 1/4 mile race. Obviously cars accelerate slower as the MPH pile on. Regardless, the cars are covering a large amount of distance at the higher speeds. .8 seconds is huge no matter how you cut it. A one second difference in the 1/4 mile is about 7 to 8 car lengths when talking about 12 to 14 second cars. It's most certainly not 2 to 3 cars. 8 cars really isn't that much distance (~120'). At 100mph, you're covering 146' feet per second. At 120mph, you're covering 220' fps. So, if the G has a .8 second lead when it hits 120mph, then that means the TLS is about 175' behind at that moment in time. That's certainly over 8 cars.

People often misjudge distance when they're in a race. One car would be if you were on their bumper. That feels like nothing but that's already 15'.

 

G37 needs a major driver mod. Even all the bolt-ons can't make up for crappy driving and slow reaction times.

 

Dave,

http://myg37.com/forums/intake-and-e...k-and-hfc.html

With bolt ons, that G37S 6MT put down 320whp / 265wtq with high flow cats / catback. These mods yielded a solid 18whp / 12wtq gain ..

So baseline, the car puts down about 300whp / 250wtq give or take.

Look at this thread:

http://www.tl.acurazine.com/forums/s...d.php?t=690686

2008 TL-S 5AT putting down 293whp / 233wtq with full bolt ons.

The 6MT is going to give you a lot more torque and more power to the ground, why is it hard to believe a TL-S 6MT wouldn't keep up with the porky G37S? Lets not forget the G37S 6MT weighs about 150lb more than the TL-S.

 

That must be a freak TL-S auto or an optimistic dyno. That's more than the TL-S 6spd dynos I've seen?? Either way that's a nice number for a 5AT.

 

I understand that dynos need to be calibrated constantly since they're used so much / very fine tuned instruments, but this is as accurate as we can get it.

I'm more pointing towards the gains he got .. 235whp is normal for a 5AT TL-S to put down.

"I've been using the same exact dyno, every time i pulled my car

239 whp Stock
249 whp + CAI, Pulley, P2R TB spacer, OE IM gaskets
261 whp + ATLP Catback Exhaust
272 whp + ATLP J-Pipe
293 whp + RV6 PreCats & Innovative Mounts"

It's about a 60whp+ gain with bolt ons .. add that to a higher baseline dyno with less drivetrain loss of the 6MT and we're approaching 300whp territory.

 

I've seen a few G37s put down ~300whp stock. These must be on high reading dynos. 10% drivetrain loss? On RWD? Not happening. I'd expect more like 275-285 (depending). My buddy saw one put down 248 stock, and another one with 100 shot not break the 300 mark. Clearly I think something was wrong with that car lol. With bolt ons/tune I could definitely see 320+ from that car.

Tyler, don't forget the TL-s 6MT with CAI/Jpipe/3in exhaust/tune that put down 292/27x. With the PCDs and another tune I could see 310/285. I think that would surely give a G37 6MT a good run.

I've never seen a modded TL-s 6MT at the track. I've yet to see any timeslips of even stock ones.

Teteux said the race was gonna happen last night. So I guess we should just stay tuned and wait to see what happened.

 

Guys, I have a good and a bad news.

The bad news is there's no video, our cam guy couldn't come to the meeting.

The good news is we raced, with no passengers.

Before the race, I tried his G35S. It definitely felt faster than the TL no doubt, engines pulls good all the way to the redline (7500 rpm).

We did 2 races, both from 2nd gear around 40 mph...

1st: Since I was a little bit scared of his VQ35HR I took the slight jump after the 3rd honk, so I get 1/2 car instantly and kept this lead all the way till end of 3rd gear...

2nd: I wasn't scared anymore, I purposely gave him the jump to see if my car could keep up. 2nd gear he gets the jump, 3rd gear he stills has 1/2 car on me, 4th gear im coming back even and HE shuts down around 125 mph...

It was his first day with the car, rematch with cam tomorrow.

The TL/Accord 6MT are strong from a roll

 

Thought this was interesting.

TL-S 6MT vs IS350

I know the IS350 and G35S are a good drivers race. This guy in the TL-S can drive!! Doesn't take much skill to drive a auto IS350.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gtqk...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a_Ec..._order&list=UL

 

Impressive

I kept forgetting you have more than just SRI. Good job on the run. I trapped 100.82 with CAI/Jpipe, you look to be doing similar. Especially considering you trapped 100 with just SRI! If the camera guy is in the G35, you may need a passenger as well to even things out

 

Nice runs man! Very impressed with the TL 6MT! Can't wait for the vids

 

Dave, there's something wrong with your reasoning here.

Yes, at 100mph, you are covering 146' pers second. But at 120mph, you are covering 176' per second, NOT 220' per second (check your math on this). That would be 141 ft in 0.8 second.

If a car is around 16 ft long, yes, 141 ft = 8.81 car lengths.

However, it doesn't mean the G will be 9 car lengths ahead of the TL-S. the G WOULD be 9 car lengths ahead if the TL-S is sitting still at 0mph. Think again, the G is doing 120mph = 176ft per second = 141ft in 0.8 second = 8.81car lengths in 0.8 second. So at 120mph, the G would cover 8.81 car lengths in 0.8 second.

The TL-S is not at 0mph when the G is at 120mph. The TL-S is probably traveling at 118mph (so I'm assuming it takes 0.8 second for the TL-S to get from 118 to 120mph). at 118mph, the TL-S is traveling at 173ft per second, or 138ft per 0.8 second, or 8.65 car lengths.

So, 8.81 car lengths vs 8.65 car lengths.

But this doesn't tell us the difference between the TL-S and G from 60mph to 120mph. Because the above analysis only looks at ONE speed. We need to do some calculus (integration) to find out how much distance each car covers from 60mph to 120mph. We also need to know the acceleration rate of each car, and it's NOT constant.

 

Guys, it doesn't matter what you show Dave. He's just highly pessimistic when it comes to the TL's performance. If you show him a video of a TL beating a G, the G must have had a bad driver, if you show him a dyno, the dyno reads high, if you show him a time slip, the timing equipment must have been faulty etc.

 

i'll run my measly 240 HP accord against a G with a "driver mod"

i aint scurred

 

That's Church's dyno out in SOCAL. That dyno is notiously optimistic. On a Dynojet, same mods, same car, it's going to put down about 290whp. Maybe less.

There are overly optimistic dynos and there are overly optimistic tracks. The good thing about mag times is the numbers are corrected and the times are an average of 10 best runs. On a typical track with excellent driving, you should be able to beat mag time by .2 to .3 seconds and 1mph to 2mph. I pay little attention to cars that record 1/4 mile times or put down numbers way outside the norm.

 

It's really maddening visiting this section sometimes but humorous and entertaining at the same time. All the numbers and times, dynos, etc don't and can't translate 100% to real world steert races and situations. They never will be more effective than what they were intended to be used for, which is how your car compares to your car. Also never as effective than just lining up and leaving the stopwatch and magazines at home.

Sure there are variables but they exist in the numbers and times as well, if not more. At least the street race is a real race and it's done in person, you can be a part of it or watch it with your own two eyes. Often times you can eliminate many of the variables that will always exist in the measuring methods of magazines and tracks (which are generally the same), and dynos as well. That's done through multiple head to head runs under quite a few different race situations and different and/or swapped drivers. It does in fact give you the best idea of how two cars compare. Not condoning that but it is what it is.

 

Nice run! Your buddy have any plans for his car or keeping it stock?

 

 

Impossible! Nothing can hang with the almighty VQ35!


Just kidding Dave.

Just as I predicted all along, good driving! The J-series motor may be down on torque .. but the power up top, 6mt gearing and the weight savings really goes along way.