Auto vs Manual
it's me, Alan Rickman.
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: noitacol
Originally Posted by I hate cars
I understand what some are saying. There's no doubt manuals are more fun to drive. There was a time when I said I would never own an auto and now that I'm older I would not own a manual for my daily driver. Being that my faster car has a 1-turbo and 2-over 620lbs of torque, that too has to be an auto. Maybe I've just gotten old lol. I just look at the TL as a way to get from point A to B. I don't want to think about driving or being connected with the car. All I care about is the AC and the radio. It's not fun for me to drive so why bother with a manual. Besides that, after driving a highly modded 944 turbo with aluminum flywheel and VERY heavy 3 puck clutch for a year, my left knee has given up. Even in a car with a light clutch my knee will start to hurt after a few days of driving.
Well duh!
If I had a car with that much power and torque the TL would be my daily driver and I probably wouldn't have an interest in getting a manual. My last car was an auto (Corolla...) and i'm sure you're aware of the speed on those. It was nice not having to shift, but I missed not having the control, there were times I really need all 100 hp
For me the TL 6MT is the perfect combo, i'll get:
- Refinement, quiet cabin, good interior quality
- Nice gadgets (i'm a computer guy) so nav and bluetooth are awesome
- Blue lights (I LOVE BLUE LIGHTS..!)
- A powerful engine (for me anyways)
- 6 Speed transmission to make more of a "sport" oriented vehicle
The one thing that still lingers in the back of my mind is me getting tired of shifting; I'll have the TL for a few years (my last two cars were gone roughly 1 year after I purchased them), but do I see myself still enjoying rowing through the gears in 2-3 years? I don't know.. Do I want to deal with a manual on a long trip? I don't know..
I do know that there's also a automatic 4 runner in my garage and my friend works at Toyota so I could just rent an auto.. and save the miles on the TL... I think I just convinced myself. =p
I was VERY close to getting the manual. But ended up getting the 07 TL-S auto. I think the torque steer with 286 HP and manual would be TOO much IMO.
Many days I wish I had the manual.
Many days I am very happy I got the auto.
When the new 09 TL-S comes out with SH-AWD, if the HP is AT LEAST 320HP, I think I will get a loaded one with a stick...
Many days I wish I had the manual.
Many days I am very happy I got the auto.
When the new 09 TL-S comes out with SH-AWD, if the HP is AT LEAST 320HP, I think I will get a loaded one with a stick...
it's me, Alan Rickman.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,312
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From: noitacol
Originally Posted by JD TL-S
I was VERY close to getting the manual. But ended up getting the 07 TL-S auto. I think the torque steer with 286 HP and manual would be TOO much IMO.
Many days I wish I had the manual.
Many days I am very happy I got the auto.
When the new 09 TL-S comes out with SH-AWD, if the HP is AT LEAST 320HP, I think I will get a loaded one with a stick...
Many days I wish I had the manual.
Many days I am very happy I got the auto.
When the new 09 TL-S comes out with SH-AWD, if the HP is AT LEAST 320HP, I think I will get a loaded one with a stick...
I thought the steering angle sensor and updated ESP/VSC/Stability program helped correct that in 2006 .. ?
Team Owner
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From: Bakersfield
Originally Posted by Timmahh
I thought the steering angle sensor and updated ESP/VSC/Stability program helped correct that in 2006 .. ?
'06 6MT WDP
Joined: May 2006
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
Sorry but the automatic TL is just boring to me. Never would have bought this car if it didn't come in a 6MT. The Brembos and stiffer anti-roll bars are worth it alone.
For me it's not about how fast the car is because in reality it's not fast at all. It's a nice quick sedan and nothing more really. I've had many other cars that would smoke the TL in a heartbeat including a modded '99 C5 vette fixed roof coupe which was a monster on a road course. With my TL it's about control, being connected to the car and having a little fun on my daily commute. With a manual you drive the car...with an auto you're just along for the ride.
As for track duty (not sure who would track this car really) it's true that an auto is going to be more consistent overall especially in a straight line. However, there is no way in hell any traditional automatic is going to be faster around a road course than a manual in the hands of capable driver. Drag racing, sure, you can make your argument.
For me it's not about how fast the car is because in reality it's not fast at all. It's a nice quick sedan and nothing more really. I've had many other cars that would smoke the TL in a heartbeat including a modded '99 C5 vette fixed roof coupe which was a monster on a road course. With my TL it's about control, being connected to the car and having a little fun on my daily commute. With a manual you drive the car...with an auto you're just along for the ride.
As for track duty (not sure who would track this car really) it's true that an auto is going to be more consistent overall especially in a straight line. However, there is no way in hell any traditional automatic is going to be faster around a road course than a manual in the hands of capable driver. Drag racing, sure, you can make your argument.
it's me, Alan Rickman.
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: noitacol
Originally Posted by I hate cars
Is that just with the manuals? I look like a retard if I floor it with the wheel anything but perfectly straight.
The 2006 TL received TPMS (Tire Pressure Monitoring System), a new computer (for manual transmission models only), and an active system to control torque steer. The new horserpower rating of 258 hp is due to a change in testing procedures, despite the engine remaining the same since 2004.
Now reading that is somewhat confusing, because it looks like it could be interpreted two ways:
1: Does that mean the manual transmission model TLs have a new computer, and all TLs get the torque steer control, or
2: The manual TL gets a new computer and the torque steer control
o_O
Can anyone clarify? Does anyone know why the manual received a new computer ?
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Abington, MA
An automatic would put me to sleep. I had an RL rental for a day. I damn near fell asleep. Having control is nice. No worries on long trips since you're usually in one gear with cruise on (just like auto). It's the stop and go traffic that is tougher with manual.
If I wanted an auto, I would have gotten a Camry.
Pete
If I wanted an auto, I would have gotten a Camry.
Pete
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From: Batavia, IL
Originally Posted by JD TL-S
I was VERY close to getting the manual. But ended up getting the 07 TL-S auto. I think the torque steer with 286 HP and manual would be TOO much IMO.
Many days I wish I had the manual.
Many days I am very happy I got the auto.
When the new 09 TL-S comes out with SH-AWD, if the HP is AT LEAST 320HP, I think I will get a loaded one with a stick...
Many days I wish I had the manual.
Many days I am very happy I got the auto.
When the new 09 TL-S comes out with SH-AWD, if the HP is AT LEAST 320HP, I think I will get a loaded one with a stick...
JD, I feel for ya.
Maybe you'll just have to get another TLS with three pedals so you can deal with your 'sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't" issue. For me there is never a time when I wish I had an auto. I never get tired of shifting and find myself missing the clutch when I'm behind the wheel in a car without it. Not that it's boring, it just seems like the trans doesn't do what I would do or when I would do it. THAT's why I like the stick.
Now that my 6MT TLS is broken in I finally punched it yesterday...not off the line, but in second gear after I was rolling and got a view of some open road around a nice sweeping curve. HOLY SHIT...this car LURCHES forward. I was a little surprised! Knew it would be quick but it goes from mild daily driver to a screamer in a heartbeat. I have to tell you this...honestly...seat of the pants observation after driving the AT and the MT...No matter which one is faster on the track or on paper, there is no comparison between them when it comes to the FUN FACTOR. The 6MT is off the charts! Yeah there is some torque steer, but it's not uncontrollable or unpredictable. I have had a lot of FWD cars with sticks and this one is far and away the most predictable under heavy acceleration, even in a turn. Simply put, it's a hell of a lot of fun.
The only tough part for me is not having anywhere to drive this car to it's potential once in a while. I was doing 50 in second, upshifted to third gear when I spotted a cop. SHIT the speed limit was 45. Had to back off in a hurry.
One of these damn days I'll get a chance to run this car through it's paces. Damn suburbs are just loaded with Barney Fife's with nothing to do but write tickets.
~Da Nocturnal Cheetah~
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Germantown, MD
Originally Posted by I hate [url="#"
cars[/url]]Again, why would anyone want to have "control" over a 250hp semi luxury car? You save a couple tenths over the manual version in the 1/4 mile. Who here can properly heel and toe?? Many probably think they can when in reality the car would be faster around a course with an auto too. Who really gets excited over racing a mid 14 second car? I wouldn't admit to that.
Oh, btw...I get excited over racing a mid 14 second car. Just the fun shit, not drag. Everybody knows it's not going to win the Indy. But, I could give a shit who doesn't like it...I pay the mofo note...ya heard!
Peace2fingaz
~Da Nocturnal Cheetah~
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From: Germantown, MD
^WTF??? Why does my post look like that? All bold and the quote text is not the guys name who I quoted, nor is it all of what he said? Weird...but I meant what I said...just weird...it should look like this:
Why is it so hard to see? Hell, why ask why...just drive your lil auto to and fro if it's too much work/excitement for you to shift gears! If anything, I don't get why anyone that seriously considers themself a driving enthusiast, doesn't understand the basic connection that comes with a manual and controlling the experience of the ride home, versus just another car on the asembly line called highway? If this is a Yugo or Metro, with a lawnmower for an engine, ok, I can understand that, but just because it is not a Buick GN, doesn't mean it has no spark either. The TL is a fun car to drive, and you either get that out of the experience or you don't. But to say it's semi-luxury is to say it's also semi-sport...and that sport side is the bad side I like! Everybody doesn't have a change-up or second car. So the TL is a good feel for both worlds.
Oh, btw...I get excited over racing a mid 14 second car. Just the fun shit, not drag. Everybody knows it's not going to win the Indy. But, I could give a shit who doesn't like it...I pay the mofo note...ya heard!
Peace2fingaz
Oh, btw...I get excited over racing a mid 14 second car. Just the fun shit, not drag. Everybody knows it's not going to win the Indy. But, I could give a shit who doesn't like it...I pay the mofo note...ya heard!
Peace2fingaz
^^^
~Da Nocturnal Cheetah~
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,798
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From: Germantown, MD
Fuck it...I thought I was losing it...I had to do it again...sorry, must be the work day, and I don't even work hard! 
Why is it so hard to see? Hell, why ask why...just drive your lil auto to and fro if it's too much work/excitement for you to shift gears! If anything, I don't get why anyone that seriously considers themself a driving enthusiast, doesn't understand the basic connection that comes with a manual and controlling the experience of the ride home, versus just another car on the asembly line called highway? If this is a Yugo or Metro, with a lawnmower for an engine, ok, I can understand that, but just because it is not a Buick GN, doesn't mean it has no spark either. The TL is a fun car to drive, and you either get that out of the experience or you don't. But to say it's semi-luxury is to say it's also semi-sport...and that sport side is the bad side I like! Everybody doesn't have a change-up or second car. So the TL is a good feel for both worlds.
Oh, btw...I get excited over racing a mid 14 second car. Just the fun shit, not drag. Everybody knows it's not going to win the Indy. But, I could give a shit who doesn't like it...I pay the mofo note...ya heard!
Peace2fingaz
(That's better)
Originally Posted by I hate [url="http:///#"
cars[/url]]Again, why would anyone want to have "control" over a 250hp semi luxury car? You save a couple tenths over the manual version in the 1/4 mile. Who here can properly heel and toe?? Many probably think they can when in reality the car would be faster around a course with an auto too. Who really gets excited over racing a mid 14 second car? I wouldn't admit to that.
Oh, btw...I get excited over racing a mid 14 second car. Just the fun shit, not drag. Everybody knows it's not going to win the Indy. But, I could give a shit who doesn't like it...I pay the mofo note...ya heard!
Peace2fingaz
(That's better)
07 tl-s in
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,946
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From: NORTH NJ
Originally Posted by darksom1
Fuck it...I thought I was losing it...I had to do it again...sorry, must be the work day, and I don't even work hard!
Why is it so hard to see? Hell, why ask why...just drive your lil auto to and fro if it's too much work/excitement for you to shift gears! If anything, I don't get why anyone that seriously considers themself a driving enthusiast, doesn't understand the basic connection that comes with a manual and controlling the experience of the ride home, versus just another car on the asembly line called highway? If this is a Yugo or Metro, with a lawnmower for an engine, ok, I can understand that, but just because it is not a Buick GN, doesn't mean it has no spark either. The TL is a fun car to drive, and you either get that out of the experience or you don't. But to say it's semi-luxury is to say it's also semi-sport...and that sport side is the bad side I like! Everybody doesn't have a change-up or second car. So the TL is a good feel for both worlds.
Oh, btw...I get excited over racing a mid 14 second car. Just the fun shit, not drag. Everybody knows it's not going to win the Indy. But, I could give a shit who doesn't like it...I pay the mofo note...ya heard!
Peace2fingaz
(That's better)
Why is it so hard to see? Hell, why ask why...just drive your lil auto to and fro if it's too much work/excitement for you to shift gears! If anything, I don't get why anyone that seriously considers themself a driving enthusiast, doesn't understand the basic connection that comes with a manual and controlling the experience of the ride home, versus just another car on the asembly line called highway? If this is a Yugo or Metro, with a lawnmower for an engine, ok, I can understand that, but just because it is not a Buick GN, doesn't mean it has no spark either. The TL is a fun car to drive, and you either get that out of the experience or you don't. But to say it's semi-luxury is to say it's also semi-sport...and that sport side is the bad side I like! Everybody doesn't have a change-up or second car. So the TL is a good feel for both worlds.
Oh, btw...I get excited over racing a mid 14 second car. Just the fun shit, not drag. Everybody knows it's not going to win the Indy. But, I could give a shit who doesn't like it...I pay the mofo note...ya heard!
Peace2fingaz
(That's better)
big f'in
you just have a way with words, very well said.fyi: i was excited to race my modded saturn sl(17 sec car).
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From: Bakersfield
Originally Posted by darksom1
Why is it so hard to see? Hell, why ask why...just drive your lil auto to and fro if it's too much work/excitement for you to shift gears! If anything, I don't get why anyone that seriously considers themself a driving enthusiast, doesn't understand the basic connection that comes with a manual and controlling the experience of the ride home, versus just another car on the asembly line called highway? If this is a Yugo or Metro, with a lawnmower for an engine, ok, I can understand that, but just because it is not a Buick GN, doesn't mean it has no spark either. The TL is a fun car to drive, and you either get that out of the experience or you don't. But to say it's semi-luxury is to say it's also semi-sport...and that sport side is the bad side I like! Everybody doesn't have a change-up or second car. So the TL is a good feel for both worlds.
Oh, btw...I get excited over racing a mid 14 second car. Just the fun shit, not drag. Everybody knows it's not going to win the Indy. But, I could give a shit who doesn't like it...I pay the mofo note...ya heard!
Peace2fingaz
Oh, btw...I get excited over racing a mid 14 second car. Just the fun shit, not drag. Everybody knows it's not going to win the Indy. But, I could give a shit who doesn't like it...I pay the mofo note...ya heard!
Peace2fingaz
~Da Nocturnal Cheetah~
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From: Germantown, MD
Originally Posted by I hate cars
What exactly are you controlling on the drive home? Are you always racing yourself? Shifting is not too much trouble for me. I can probably shift better than you and most of the people on this board who have never actually timed theirselves on a road course or dragstrip. Just don't go to a track and you'll never burst your little bubble and in your mind you will always be a badass "racer". Have fun racing your 14 second car just be careful not to fall asleep in the process. I would love for the GN to have a manual but a big turbo and little motor just don't go well with a manual.
it's me, Alan Rickman.
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From: noitacol
darksom - the /quote code was either at the end of your post or maybe the close tag didn't get inserted?
I hate cars - you control the car when you drive home. Rather than letting the transmission decide what it wants to do (don't chime in about SS anyone..), you have 100% complete control over what speed the car and engine are going in 6 different gears. Even in SS mode on the AT you still have no control over it in 1st and 2nd (you CANNOT sport shift in those two right?)
THATS controlling the car, I would say most 6MT drivers aren't looking to go street racing (I would hope not), the manual is more engaging to drive - it requires interaction from the driver.
Now let's set aside the comments and not start flame wars, because.. 3rd time this is being said.. its all about what YOU prefer to drive. But you absolutely cannot deny that the 6MT offers a more engaging drive than the 5AT. It's not about racing, this isn't an evo or sti, it's about driving and enjoying Acuras excellent job at making a balanced(ish?) sport and luxury sedan. The 6 speed lets you enjoy it a little more if you opt for it - not because of performance gains - but because you are connected to the car.
Think of it like this..
5AT = you at home watching some pr0n
6MT = you at home with the hot neighbor chick making you ignore the pr0n
They both get the job done, but one is more fun.. for some people. mmmmk?!
I hate cars - you control the car when you drive home. Rather than letting the transmission decide what it wants to do (don't chime in about SS anyone..), you have 100% complete control over what speed the car and engine are going in 6 different gears. Even in SS mode on the AT you still have no control over it in 1st and 2nd (you CANNOT sport shift in those two right?)
THATS controlling the car, I would say most 6MT drivers aren't looking to go street racing (I would hope not), the manual is more engaging to drive - it requires interaction from the driver.
Now let's set aside the comments and not start flame wars, because.. 3rd time this is being said.. its all about what YOU prefer to drive. But you absolutely cannot deny that the 6MT offers a more engaging drive than the 5AT. It's not about racing, this isn't an evo or sti, it's about driving and enjoying Acuras excellent job at making a balanced(ish?) sport and luxury sedan. The 6 speed lets you enjoy it a little more if you opt for it - not because of performance gains - but because you are connected to the car.
Think of it like this..
5AT = you at home watching some pr0n
6MT = you at home with the hot neighbor chick making you ignore the pr0n
They both get the job done, but one is more fun.. for some people. mmmmk?!
~Da Nocturnal Cheetah~
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Germantown, MD
Originally Posted by Timmahh
Think of it like this..
5AT = you at home watching some porn
6MT = you at home with the hot neighbor chick making you ignore the porn
They both get the job done, but one is more fun.. for some people. mmmmk?!
5AT = you at home watching some porn
6MT = you at home with the hot neighbor chick making you ignore the porn
They both get the job done, but one is more fun.. for some people. mmmmk?!
it's me, Alan Rickman.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,312
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From: noitacol
Well i'll say no because there's a throttle and clutch on the chick but i won't say where -_-
IM TRYIN TO KEEP THIS PG! =p don't make me describe things
edit: I REALLY cannot type worth a damn tonight
IM TRYIN TO KEEP THIS PG! =p don't make me describe things
edit: I REALLY cannot type worth a damn tonight
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From: Bakersfield
Originally Posted by darksom1
LOL...dude, it ain't you against me...it's manual against auto...you will never know if you can shift better than most of the people here, and if they argued the point, their point would be just as dumb as yours! I don't race myself, don't race a lot at all really...just tear ass up once in a while...but it ain't that serious...what my post was referring to, was the general experience of controlling the speed of the vehicle as you drive it, much like breaking it down for exhilirating turns and stuff like that...but it's up to the individual how they enjoy the experience...however, you don't have to race to enjoy it...a driver enthusiast would know that and appreciate it...thanks for proving my point...
~Da Nocturnal Cheetah~
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From: Germantown, MD
Originally Posted by I hate cars
And a driver enthusiast would know the TL is not an enthusiasts car. I do a fine job contolling the speed with the gas and brake. I understand why some people would want a manual over an auto, I just don't think it fits a car like the TL. To say I'm not an enthusiast because I drive an auto is crazy. This is coming from a guy who drives a 250hp FWD car. Going from the GN to the TL is like having your balls cut off.
What do you add to the experience? And why do you have to keep putting down the TL? In this thread alone there are enough people to substantiate the claim that it is a satisfactory product for both luxury and sport type owners. If not in this one, surely in the one referenced in my first post.
it's me, Alan Rickman.
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From: noitacol
It's certainly not an M5 but I have yet to read a review on the TL that says it's not an enthusiasts car. It depends on what you are enthusiastic about.. If only get excited when a car has 400hp then the TL is going to a peice of crap in your eyes and there will be nothing exciting about it.
4th time: It's all about what you like and what you prefer to drive.
What's sad is I have completely forgotten what the original post was, and why are we going back in forth with on you about being a car enthusiastic crazy whatever?.. i'm so confused now
I need a drink
4th time: It's all about what you like and what you prefer to drive.
What's sad is I have completely forgotten what the original post was, and why are we going back in forth with on you about being a car enthusiastic crazy whatever?.. i'm so confused now
I need a drink
it's me, Alan Rickman.
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From: noitacol
Originally Posted by medicshane
Just woundering what most are taking..I like the idea of the paddle shifter but in all honesty will I use it much?? I have an A-spec now but dont use the tiptronic much just when I "race". I was also told by the dealer that the manual is so much more aggressive, responsive "a monster" I was sold, I am picking it up on Friday...I was just woundering what you all thought.
Most people are getting manuals because the automatics are better than the manuals because the manual has 6 speeds but the automatic has 5 with sport shift but the manual has a limited slip differential with big brakes like the auto does not have that but does have paddle shifters on the 07 type s which does not come with the 6 speed because it's a manual and you cannot paddle shift with a clutch because the automatic does not use a clutch because its an automatic with paddle shifters.
We can totally close this thread now
~Da Nocturnal Cheetah~
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From: Germantown, MD
Originally Posted by Timmahh
This should fix it.. i'll use the Chewbacca approach
Most people are getting manuals because the automatics are better than the manuals because the manual has 6 speeds but the automatic has 5 with sport shift but the manual has a limited slip differential with big brakes like the auto does not have that but does have paddle shifters on the 07 type s which does not come with the 6 speed because it's a manual and you cannot paddle shift with a clutch because the automatic does not use a clutch because its an automatic with paddle shifters.
We can totally close this thread now
Most people are getting manuals because the automatics are better than the manuals because the manual has 6 speeds but the automatic has 5 with sport shift but the manual has a limited slip differential with big brakes like the auto does not have that but does have paddle shifters on the 07 type s which does not come with the 6 speed because it's a manual and you cannot paddle shift with a clutch because the automatic does not use a clutch because its an automatic with paddle shifters.
We can totally close this thread now
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From: Bakersfield
Originally Posted by darksom1
I think you are equating what I said to meaning that you aren't because you drive an auto. I didn't say that, I said that because you act like you don't understand why someone would want to drive this car in a manual. But truth be told, I can't see how it is not the same if you are just braking and accelerating during your drive (auto). What do you add to the experience? And why do you have to keep putting down the TL? In this thread alone there are enough people to substantiate the claim that it is a satisfactory product for both luxury and sport type owners. If not in this one, surely in the one referenced in my first post.
What do you add to the experience? And why do you have to keep putting down the TL? In this thread alone there are enough people to substantiate the claim that it is a satisfactory product for both luxury and sport type owners. If not in this one, surely in the one referenced in my first post.
~Da Nocturnal Cheetah~
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From: Germantown, MD
Originally Posted by I hate cars
I'm very happy with my TL and I think it's a great car. My friend was going to sell me his 2 year old CL55 Mercedes for the same price I got the TL for so that should tell you I like the car. I understand why a manual is more fun. I've never disputed that and this past year is the first time I haven't had a manual in the garage. I guess where we differ is you're looking for the "experience" and I'm just looking to drive home after a long day at work. After being forced to drive the GN 210miles round trip to work everyday for 6 months, it sort of beat wanting the "experience" out of me.
Oh yeah, I only work 15 mins from home. (Don't hate - congratulate!) Hahahaha!
Thread Starter
Cape Breton Type-S
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From: Cape Breaton Nova Scotia
1 word....WOW!! just got home with my new baby...I am so glad I got the Type S MT its amazing, and everything I had hoped for. the dealer even surprised me with tinting my windows for me no extra charge!! thank you all!!
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Originally Posted by SouthernBoy
Looks like I got picked apart a bit there, but I stand by my statements. As for the commenter's remarks that noboby could ever shift a manual in under 1/10th of a second, I guess he never had the pleasure and honor of watching the late Ronnie Sox from really close up.. as did I.
Watched Ronnie Sox, Butch Leal, Arnie "Farmer" Beswick in his Pontiac, Don Nicholson, etc. We'll never know how fast they could shift, but we *do* know those were fully and lovingly massaged gearboxes...
Got to spend about an hour with Dyno Don back in '93 or'94, in the pits up at New England Dragway. He was on tour and scheduled for the full show on Sunday, but this was Saturday (a test and tune day), and he was there to check things out, I guess. I had no clue at all (not far from the norm) when this older gent shows up as I'm sitting in my '93 LT-1 six-speed Vette in the pits, analyzing timeslips. He checks the car out and starts asking me questions about the car, and then a fair bit about my driving techniques. I have no idea who the guy is, but am somewhat used to guys showing curiosity in the pits, as the car was very fast for a pure stocker - so I'm politely answering.
Then he introduces himself. OMIGOD! Dyno Don is asking me about my driving techniques! Turns out he had a '91 six-speed with some mods, but it wouldn't hook up without drag radials. Seemed like a regular guy who was in love with cars, just like most of us - except most of us aren't legends.
Thanks for the trip back memory lane.
Hey there Bruce, how's it going? Happy belated July 4th.
Backatcha.
My remarks about autos and manuals and life expectancy, I am just going on my own experiences and observations. Basically, there is just about nothing in a manual (inlcuding the clutch assembly) that is going to go wrong as long as the design is solid, the installation is to spec, and it is operated properly and with knowledge.
True also with autos - they're all good nowadays, but manufacturers routinely have more warranty problems with sticks.
My Chevelle was ordered new by me to my specifications. It had the L34 360HP engine with a 4-bolt main block, Holley 660 single feed carb, and the medium rise cast iron intake. The cam was the same as that which was installed in the 427 390HP engine of the same year and was a hydraulic unit with .4615" intake lift and as I recall (hope this is right), 280 degrees duration. This was the only year this engine was ever offered in any Chevrolet product. The transmission was the Muncie M21 4-speed close ratio box (2.20 first), and the pumpkin contained 3.73 Posi gears. I also ordered a rather rare option; sintered metallic brake linings. Incidently, I still have the original order form for this car.
Nice car! Had those linings on my '64 TriPower Goat. Part of a "Ride and Handling Package" for around twenty one bucks, if memory serves. Unbelieveable brakes!
Launching GM supercars of that day was not really that hard.. much easier than my 1988 Mustang LX 302CID. They came from the factory with traction bars, though GM called them trailing arms. I used 10" Mickey Thompson street tires with Monroe LoadLeveler rear shocks to counter the natural chassis twist to the right from engine torque.
After several years, I installed an R3310 780 Holley dual feed center pivot carburetor, Hooker equal length headers with Walker straight through mufflers, and stronger valve springs (LS6). I also reworked the ignition a little to gain full advance early on. Plus, if you are familar with Holley carbs of that time, you probably know about the little tricks with small bolts in the secondary throttle arm and easing up on the vacuum-operated secondaries.
Launching was done around 3000-3200 PRM with a little slipping of the clutch as the throttle was nailed. About 15 feet of some partial burning and the rest was pure acceleration. I never power shifted.. just speed shifted, since it was my daily driver.
In stock trim with tires and the aforementioned carb and ignition turning, it was good for sub 13.3's. After the headers and the 780 Holley, the engine really woke up and managed 12.8's. The stock exhaust manifold that Chevy used on their 396 Chevelles was VERY restrictive.. it was a "log" design if you know what that refers to.
Yeah. The only manufacturer who spent a lot of time and effort on the exhaust back then was Chrysler. Those cars ran hard in pure stock.
Great car and strong as can be.. as were the rest of the GM supercars of the day. I remember a 1966 442 street machine running consistent 12.4's. You could set your watch to the guy.. he knew how to drive that machine. Saw some Goats hit the lower 12's. too.
Watched Ronnie Sox, Butch Leal, Arnie "Farmer" Beswick in his Pontiac, Don Nicholson, etc. We'll never know how fast they could shift, but we *do* know those were fully and lovingly massaged gearboxes...
Got to spend about an hour with Dyno Don back in '93 or'94, in the pits up at New England Dragway. He was on tour and scheduled for the full show on Sunday, but this was Saturday (a test and tune day), and he was there to check things out, I guess. I had no clue at all (not far from the norm) when this older gent shows up as I'm sitting in my '93 LT-1 six-speed Vette in the pits, analyzing timeslips. He checks the car out and starts asking me questions about the car, and then a fair bit about my driving techniques. I have no idea who the guy is, but am somewhat used to guys showing curiosity in the pits, as the car was very fast for a pure stocker - so I'm politely answering.
Then he introduces himself. OMIGOD! Dyno Don is asking me about my driving techniques! Turns out he had a '91 six-speed with some mods, but it wouldn't hook up without drag radials. Seemed like a regular guy who was in love with cars, just like most of us - except most of us aren't legends.
Thanks for the trip back memory lane.
Hey there Bruce, how's it going? Happy belated July 4th.
Backatcha.
My remarks about autos and manuals and life expectancy, I am just going on my own experiences and observations. Basically, there is just about nothing in a manual (inlcuding the clutch assembly) that is going to go wrong as long as the design is solid, the installation is to spec, and it is operated properly and with knowledge.
True also with autos - they're all good nowadays, but manufacturers routinely have more warranty problems with sticks.
My Chevelle was ordered new by me to my specifications. It had the L34 360HP engine with a 4-bolt main block, Holley 660 single feed carb, and the medium rise cast iron intake. The cam was the same as that which was installed in the 427 390HP engine of the same year and was a hydraulic unit with .4615" intake lift and as I recall (hope this is right), 280 degrees duration. This was the only year this engine was ever offered in any Chevrolet product. The transmission was the Muncie M21 4-speed close ratio box (2.20 first), and the pumpkin contained 3.73 Posi gears. I also ordered a rather rare option; sintered metallic brake linings. Incidently, I still have the original order form for this car.
Nice car! Had those linings on my '64 TriPower Goat. Part of a "Ride and Handling Package" for around twenty one bucks, if memory serves. Unbelieveable brakes!
Launching GM supercars of that day was not really that hard.. much easier than my 1988 Mustang LX 302CID. They came from the factory with traction bars, though GM called them trailing arms. I used 10" Mickey Thompson street tires with Monroe LoadLeveler rear shocks to counter the natural chassis twist to the right from engine torque.
After several years, I installed an R3310 780 Holley dual feed center pivot carburetor, Hooker equal length headers with Walker straight through mufflers, and stronger valve springs (LS6). I also reworked the ignition a little to gain full advance early on. Plus, if you are familar with Holley carbs of that time, you probably know about the little tricks with small bolts in the secondary throttle arm and easing up on the vacuum-operated secondaries.
Launching was done around 3000-3200 PRM with a little slipping of the clutch as the throttle was nailed. About 15 feet of some partial burning and the rest was pure acceleration. I never power shifted.. just speed shifted, since it was my daily driver.
In stock trim with tires and the aforementioned carb and ignition turning, it was good for sub 13.3's. After the headers and the 780 Holley, the engine really woke up and managed 12.8's. The stock exhaust manifold that Chevy used on their 396 Chevelles was VERY restrictive.. it was a "log" design if you know what that refers to.
Yeah. The only manufacturer who spent a lot of time and effort on the exhaust back then was Chrysler. Those cars ran hard in pure stock.
Great car and strong as can be.. as were the rest of the GM supercars of the day. I remember a 1966 442 street machine running consistent 12.4's. You could set your watch to the guy.. he knew how to drive that machine. Saw some Goats hit the lower 12's. too.
One of these days, I'll take my TL-S to the drags on a test and tune day, to see what's what. It'll also see a couple of road courses, which is where I spend the vast majority of my track time nowadays.
That aforementioned Vette ran a best of 12.97 at 108.95 in as-delivered condition, right down to the 35 psi (factory spec) in the Goodyears. I was on a Mission From God back then, trying to find out just how quick a pure stock Vette could go.
Bruce
Cruisin'
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by DonP
I really wanted a stick but the wife can't drive a stick, so it will be an automatic. But I really like to have full control of what gear I'm in.
Registered Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 8,342
Likes: 163
From: Suburb of Manassas, VA
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.
My Goat wasn't in that league. I ran in the "Pure Stock" classes, where you couldn't do anything with the car. It ran in the 14.1 - 14.2 range at around 100 mph or a bit more on the factory 775-14s. Collected a ton of two-buck trophies though. The hydraulic lifter oval-port 396s typically ran in the 14.5 range in my class, and they all seemed to have some trouble getting a clean launch.
One of these days, I'll take my TL-S to the drags on a test and tune day, to see what's what. It'll also see a couple of road courses, which is where I spend the vast majority of my track time nowadays.
That aforementioned Vette ran a best of 12.97 at 108.95 in as-delivered condition, right down to the 35 psi (factory spec) in the Goodyears. I was on a Mission From God back then, trying to find out just how quick a pure stock Vette could go.
Bruce
One of these days, I'll take my TL-S to the drags on a test and tune day, to see what's what. It'll also see a couple of road courses, which is where I spend the vast majority of my track time nowadays.
That aforementioned Vette ran a best of 12.97 at 108.95 in as-delivered condition, right down to the 35 psi (factory spec) in the Goodyears. I was on a Mission From God back then, trying to find out just how quick a pure stock Vette could go.
Bruce
I also recall a '64 white Goat running at 75 & 80 and turning 13.08's. My guess is that he had his headers, maybe blocked heat risers and a few other goodies. GM supercars of that period were a ball to drive at the time. Factory hot rods.
The 07 TL-S Auto does go pretty good if you manually shift it and rev the piss out of it. I did some merge runs yesterday and she cranks.
Many people who love my car ALWAYS ask, IS IT A STICK? When I say no, they hesitate and say, I would of gotten the stick. The last car I bought with a stick, I sold in 1 year,
I found myself beating it TOO much. Always reving more and when in bad traffic, I would do a holeshot when I got FREE. The auto lets you relax when things get tough/bad in heavy traffic.
My nephew got the 07 Civic Si and had to have the ENTIRE drivetrain replaced. HE WAS SO PISSED. His first NEW car and FIRST stick, which he always wanted.
Many people who love my car ALWAYS ask, IS IT A STICK? When I say no, they hesitate and say, I would of gotten the stick. The last car I bought with a stick, I sold in 1 year,
I found myself beating it TOO much. Always reving more and when in bad traffic, I would do a holeshot when I got FREE. The auto lets you relax when things get tough/bad in heavy traffic.
My nephew got the 07 Civic Si and had to have the ENTIRE drivetrain replaced. HE WAS SO PISSED. His first NEW car and FIRST stick, which he always wanted.
~Da Nocturnal Cheetah~
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,798
Likes: 4
From: Germantown, MD
I don't think that anyone can argue that the Type-S is better suited for those of us that like to drive manually!! An auto in that car is, while just as fast obviously, certainly not as much fun! No way you jump up to the TL-S and you want just "luxury" or "to lay back and enjoy the ride home". It's a beast and must be man-handled like one! I wish I had one, I would drive it just like TLFourplay does his!!!! With the engine screaming like a BANSHEE!!! Damn, and TLFourplay has a SC in his, too! Big pimpin'!! 
I always drive it easy until its up to temp, but sometimes I feel I drive it a little hard. But red-lining it now and then shouldn't hurt it? I am going with synthetic oil ASAP. Just need to decide if Mobil 1 full synthetic is good enough. Thats what Acura by me uses.
I have raced quite a few cars around here and NEVER lost. Its not a muscle car, but it can really go. And IMO a car that runs in the mid 14 sec 1/4 mile is NO dog. Thats pretty fast. I know if I had a manual the tires would be worn MUCH MORE by now!
My 1st car @ 17 years old was a 1971 Chevelle LT-1 with aprox 375 HP with a muncie 4 speed and a Hurst competition plus shifter. I WAS smokin the tires ALL THE TIME! It ran mid 13's and it felt VERY FAST TO ME
I have raced quite a few cars around here and NEVER lost. Its not a muscle car, but it can really go. And IMO a car that runs in the mid 14 sec 1/4 mile is NO dog. Thats pretty fast. I know if I had a manual the tires would be worn MUCH MORE by now!
My 1st car @ 17 years old was a 1971 Chevelle LT-1 with aprox 375 HP with a muncie 4 speed and a Hurst competition plus shifter. I WAS smokin the tires ALL THE TIME! It ran mid 13's and it felt VERY FAST TO ME
Cajun Asian
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
From: California LUV
Originally Posted by MRP Pete
An automatic would put me to sleep. I had an RL rental for a day. I damn near fell asleep. Having control is nice. No worries on long trips since you're usually in one gear with cruise on (just like auto). It's the stop and go traffic that is tougher with manual.
If I wanted an auto, I would have gotten a Camry.
Pete
If I wanted an auto, I would have gotten a Camry.
Pete
Pro
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 666
Likes: 19
From: Connecticut
So heres my thought.....I had an 05 5at for almost 2 years now....and when i first bought it....i bought it for pure luxury....just to drive around a cruise...but that only lasted a few months....then i started to mod it....and then regret that i bought the AT, even though it was pretty quick....off the line its a dog....so i kept that around...and bought the 07TL-S in a 6MT, and that was probably the best thing ive done....i dont beat on it...but its just in my blood to drive a MT. Its not for everyone....some people prefer the AT over the MT...and most people who argue that the AT is better...either can't drive MT...or they're in denial and wished they bought the MT....i was like that....the 5AT gets better highway mileage...but driving around town in the MT is great....and i dont know why people say driving a MT in traffic sucks...cause no one i know has a problem with it....maybe they can't drive a MT...o well...all i can say is its all about prefernce...why do you think the NSX has an option for MT or AT...its what you prefer....
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