I've noticed a lot of TL'ers are ex-s4 ppl. Im considering both a used S4 or a new TL, those of you who've driven/owned S4s, could you comment on the differences and experiences with both?

Thanks a lot.

--Alex

 

I also considered a used S4 but discovered that they are EXTREMELY small cars. The newer S4's are a good bit more roomy (still smaller than the TL but larger inside). Since they are also changing the body style on the A-series, the older ones are starting to look dated. I went back to the Audi dealer about 6 times (Benz dealer 3 times, BMW only took once to realize the 5-series was over priced) before I made my choice for the TL. If the S4 had been $45K instead of $54K it might have been a tougher decision but working with a self-imposed $35K budget got me a great car in this new TL. Hope this helps!

 

Being an ex-S4 owner and a current owner of a TL should tell you something. The 00-03 S4 is a small car but fast car, especially with the 6-speed. The 6-speed is a little notchy but better than the automatic for performance. If you are considering automatic then go with the TL, they are about the same performance figures.

I liked the interior looks and quality of the Audi and living in the Snow Belt I appreciated the Quattro all-wheel drive. Audi’s are very pricey to fix and very hard to work on. Open the hood and see how they shoehorned the engine into the car. If the car’s is near 60K in miles be warned that Audi’s have a timing belt that needs to be replaced around that time, again pricey.

If you are considering buying a used one be wary of cars that have been modified they may have abused or raced. The S4’s twin turbo chargers are susceptible problem areas on raced or abused cars.

There are times I miss the S4 but on the whole I like the car I drive now. I drove my Audi for 80K problem free miles but I religiously maintained mine.

Check out the forums at

Link to Audi World forum

 

I agree that the performance is close, but I was very disappointed durring my test drive at how hard it was to launch it without wheel-spin and how, unsporty, for lack of a better term it felt compared to the 5 series. Its also nice that with a chip and nothing else you can get over 300HP. The car im looking @ is a 2001 S4 with only 14k miles on it. Does that seam weird to any of you? They are asking $33k for it and it will be under warrenty for 6 years 100k miles. What do you guys think? This or the TL?

 

With the S4 chips it's not so much the bump in horsepower (250hp->318hp on 93 octane) that's important as the bump in torque (258lb-ft->382lb-ft!!!). With a simple chip you can get the previous S4 close to current M3/S4 range. With a few more mods I've seen videos of guys just about (but not quite) keeping up with Lambos and Vipers!

To me at least, it's obvious that Acura based portions of the new TL interior on Audi's interiors--and that's a great thing--specifically the atmospheric lighting but also the quality of materials. Both cars have great interiors, though as several have mentioned, the TL's is more spacious.

The trade-off for the larger car/interior is inferior handling, both from the size of the car and the fact that you're comparing FWD to AWD. I've driven both and personally think the S4-6MT, even in stock form, is much more fun to drive.

Oh, and in the spirit of trying to cover as many points as I can, if you want a factory navigation system, don't even try with the Audi! Even if you find an S4 with their stock nav, it's terrible. That's not to say that you couldn't slap an aftermarket nav in the car that wouldn't make you happy, though.

If you do get one, try to get Audi's certified pre-owned plan with an extended warranty so you don't have to contend with the higher cost of ownership. That should eliminate most of the concern with out of pocket costs, though it won't necessarily mean your car spends any less time at the dealer. Having said that, I have three friends with S4s and none of them have had any problems to speak of.

Either way, you're going to love the car. Go with the one that really grabs you.

 

I chipped my car at 26K and achieved on the dyno about 65hp and 108lb-ft. I also put in a K&N air filter and purchased a spare ECU so that I could swap them out when going in for warranty work (15 minute chore). Out of pocket expense was about $1100.

I purchased my GIAC chip from AWE Tuning.

Link to AWE

Another reason in getting the Audi is the switchblade key.

 

Well, the major drawback to that sweet key was it's limited range. Both my keys wouldn't work beyond 10 feet from the car.

I loved my chipped S4. I would probably love the TL except for occasional feeling that I'm driving on square tires.

 

Good point. There seems to be a generally progression of sorts. For me it was Honda Civic, E36 M3, B5 S4

 

I agree they have a limited range but I found you could increase the range a tad by holding the fob at roof level or above. I believe the pick up for the signal is embedded in the rear window.

I still found the switchblade key more preferable to the Acura arrangement; it was unobtrusive and didn't put holes in your pockets.

 

I do not know if you can compare an A4 1.8 t to an S4...probably not as far as performance goes...although my car was chipped to 190 hp and it really scooted. I was EXTREMELY dissapointed with all of the maintainance of the Audi. I sold my A4 with 31,000 miles on it with a list of problems.. my feelings is that Audis are great performing cars and if you have a fat bankroll and don't mind all of the problems go for it... I sure like my TL..so far.. good luck my friend.

 

Thanks a lot guys, I really appreciate your input. I still cant decide, but this post definitely does help!!

 

hey the new a6's have cleared headlights?

 

I had a 1998 A4, 2000 S4 and now my 2004 TL.

I can't compare - the Audis were more "special." Dealers and national organization is sh!t, but cars are more linear in power delivery and drivability (as are German autos and Saabs in my experience).

A chipped S4, though, is one fast car. Great in rain, snow, etc. and good (but a notch or more below an M3) in the dry.

You have to drive both and make your decision.

I would say that the new S4 (~53k) isn't worth it - I saved $20k and got a better car (once again, in my opinion).

-josh

 

I too am a former S4 owner and they are great cars. The TL is significantly larger then the S4 so if you need a bigger car the TL is the way to go.

To me the biggest question would be how long you plan on keeping the car. Audi's are very expensive to maintain and the 2.7TT engine is not the most reliable thing in the world (check the boards but they have turbo failure issues stock) and if you chip it you lose your warranty in the process.

I loved my S4 and would have love a new S4 but 50k is just insane. The TL is not nearly as sporty as the S4 but has a much higher luxury factor to it, oh and the TL nav is amazing.

So in an effort to be as longwinded as possible it really just depends on what you are looking for. The S4 is a great car but has some reliability issues with it and lacks the gee-whiz electronics. On the other hand it performs fantastically and with Quattro is rock solid no matter what the weather.

 

Amen to that! I just traded in an '01 A4 2.8 Quattro Tiptronic for my TL, and I had a bunch of maintenance issues with it, mostly electrical. I had to have the ignition cylinder replaced twice, and the damn thing nearly stranded my gf & me in Pittsburgh over Thanksgiving weekend.

I know it's not quite an S4, but by the time I was done with it, I wanted to go "Office Space" on it... :bigun2: My experience with that car has definitely scared me off of German cars in general, and Audis in particular, for a good, long time. Buyer beware!!!

 

Didn't know that there were this many ex-S4 owners on the TL board.

kovi19, to add to the S4 vs. TL debate.......

The S4 can be made much faster than any TL (at this point, and probably for the entire span of the new TL; turbocharged cars can be made faster quite easily).

The drawbacks for the S4 are simple. It's an expensive car to maintain and modify, but when it's running well it's a damn fun car to drive. I just have a APR chip on my S4 and the difference from stock is dramatic. Lightly modified S4's (chip & exhaust) can run low 13 1/4 mile times consistently.

Honestly, if you plan on having more than 2 people in the car often, the TL is the choice. The TL will be more reliable, be more accomodating, especially with the Nav, and it's plenty fast.

The S4 is more fun though.

For you old S4 guys, check out what happened to my S4 while parked in my driveway (the TL was inside the garage) this past Sunday night.

Somebody tried to steal my headlights. Sad indeed, they damaged the part they wanted to steal.

 

limit for attachments?

Here's a link to the pics from my post on Audiworld.

http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/1564998.phtml