Neilg1958

Here's a little bugaboo that's driving me ape.

I have a moderate case of color-blindness that makes it difficult for me to discern certain colors. Red and Green chief among them.

The red speedometer needle against the black background of the guage is very difficult for me to see sometimes. The needle totally blends in with the guage.

With the headlights on and the dasboard illuminated, the problem goes away. It's during daylight driving that the problem is worst. Especially if I'm wearing sunglasses.

My question is in two parts:

When I mentioned this to the service manager he looked at me like I was from another planet. I thought for sure someone had the same problem and inquired. So, have any of you guys -- and color-blindness is mostly a 'guy thing' -- noticed this problem?

I doubt the needles could be replaced with a more contrasting color. So, is there an easy way to get to the needles so I can simply apply a coat of paint to them? If this could be done can anyone speculate if the paint would impact the functioning of the needle?

In the final analysis, I'll probably just live with it, but if there's a relatively easy and not too expensive way to remedy the problem, I'll consider it.

Thanx in advance

Neil in Florida

1nePhatTL

just get some fine glasses.

ayethetiense

i think you are incorrect about the dash....

the dash is brighter when the headlights are off and they are darker when the headlights are on....

you can always hit the MAX button when the headlights are on so that the dash is always on full intensity

KJSmitty

It's been many a year since I have torn into a speedo cluster but the answer to your question "should be": yes.....

Most speedo units are replaceable and once accessed the needle could easily be "repainted" etc... Now, the only problem is you would have to handle it extremely carefully.. The paint/surface of the instrument gauges is/are very susceptible to skin oil etc. We usually wore surgical gloves for any type of handling. Once you get a finger print etc. you couldn't get it off. Any attempts resulted in an even worse "predicement".....

My brother & father in-law have the same color blindness issue... Either way, if it's worth the money for ya it should be do-able.

Novice

I have a colleague in our medical research lab who had a similar problem. This is no laughing matter as it is related to your safety. I hope you find a way that will make you happy. I've seen in car TV shows in which people replaced the speedo needles.

Good luck!

03CoupeV6

If I'm not mistaken, only males can be color-blind.

Jerky

NOT true

they issue color blind tests to male and female, i clearly remember that in school

KJSmitty

True,
But it is more pronounced in males due to the higher chance/probability of it being "handed" down from the male side of the gene equation etc.

TampaMike

I am color blind and so is my mom. True it is more common in men than women. There are also varying degress of color blindness. And poorly termed, as we all see colors, just in variations from non 'color blind' folk, and discerning some colors may be influenced by the background. For me, primary colors are OK, but colors in similar shades can be difficult, such as pastels or lighted colors. A traffic light reads orange, yellow & white to me, but I have learned to respond to them as I see them, or by the position of the light. Where it gets troublesome is with a single flashing red or yellow light. I have to treat it as red.

Personally, I have no problem seeing the needles on the TL. I drive with MAX brightness, primarily that I drive with daytime running lights. However my MOM can barely see the needles! She asked me how I knew my speed (she kept leaning over to see the gauges). She thought there was a heads up or digital display supplemental to the gauge display (not bad assumptions for a 75 year old, eh?)

It was a problem I noticed driving the Mazda 6s. I could read the gauges at night, but could barely see the red needle in daylight. It was the #1 reason I decided not to pursue that car in my new car search (I liked it very much otherwise).

I would expect a modification with white luminescent paint on the needles would solve the problem. Who cares if the dealer thinks it is odd, he'll take your money anyway.

Drive Safe!

TerminaderTL

Just press the TALK button and ask 'how fast am I driving now?'

neuronbob

You're not nuts, you just can't see....for you the solution is a few posts above mine. Just drive with the dash lights at "max". I'm not color blind but like the dash lights enough that I drive with the lights set close to "max".

Ron A

I also like the lights so much that they are set to max unless I am driving at night (which isn't very often), and then I have them preset down to about 3 bars (not those kind of bars).

Someone else said it first here, but I also open my doors sometimes, especially in the garage at night, just to see the dash lights come on.

Absolutely beautiful.

jmn4667

If the needles were painted, couldn't the added weight from the paint through off the needles' performance?

JohnDoe2

I would have to concur with your Service Manager's Assessment.

DMZ

.
You're not nuts Neil !!

Then again neither was The Shrink, Bruce Willis's character in the movie THE COLOR OF NIGHT. He couldn't see red either, especially when he found himself in a pool of blood from one of the patients from the Monday night group therapy session.

crazymjb

I have 2 questions spawned by this thread:
1. Can you really ask the car your speed?
2. Why don't more cars have a digital readout of the speed either alone(like in 90s lincolns) or under the guage(like in some caddies)?

kosh2258

A certain portion of the population is "color blind", to be sure. Whether the service manager is aware of that statistic or not is another matter.

The question is did he react the way he did because of your color blindness, or was it more of a OK, you're color blind but what do you expect us to do about that? reaction.
Is the car defective? No, it isn't. The problem is your eyesight, which the dealer has no control over, or Honda for that matter.

Don't misunderstand, I sympathize with your situation.
But I don't think it's realistic to expect a manufacturer to have a solution to a circumstance only a very small portion of the population has - it's just not reasonable. It would be like expecting car manufacturers to offer precision ground windshields on their cars because a customer has poor eyesight and doesn't want to wear glasses. That's just not going to happen.

Neilg1958

The service manager had not heard of this issue until I brought it to his attention. Since he was not color-blind himself it was difficult for him to understand how much of a problem it is for me to see the speedometer needle. In all fairness to the guy, he was sympathetic to my plight once the initial shock wore off.

Now, on to the larger question raised in Kosh's reply above.

If you asked me what level of responsibility Acura / Honda has in all this I'd classify this as a 'design oversight'. Color-blindness is not some rare, exotic malady that affects only a small percentage of the human race.

Statistics vary, but about 2% of the population suffers some form of the condition. That translates to 6 million people +/-

If they were to switch to a high contrast needle/background combination, this whole matter would be nonexistent. In fact, there might be some added benefit to the NON-color-blind population if the needles stood out a bit more.

I have no clue how these kinds of decisions get made in the design and manufacture of cars and their components. However, I would like to think that if someone, somewhere had brought this up BEFORE the color scheme was decided upon, that they would have used a different color from the get go.

kosh2258

You had the opportunity to test drive the car, and you are aware of your situation, so you had the chance to check out the gauge cluster for readability. You also had the option to take a pass on the vehicle.

So what I'm saying is that you have responsibility for your decision.

You can argue that Honda botched the design, but using that logic then every color television manufacturer has botched their design too because their sets don't accomodate your condition.

It's purely a matter of statistics and cost/benefit. They have little choice but to design for the 294,000,000 potential customers with average color vision.

Put another way, Honda manufactures about 65,000 TL's per year, 2% of which would be 1300 vehicles. Considering the total pool of potential customers for the TL what fraction might have this condition? Would it be 1300?

I mean no offense, I understand that this is important to you but it has to be looked at in the larger context. That may or may not be fair but that's the way it is, unfortunately.

Neilg1958

Yes, the decision was mine. Of course it was. In the scheme of things the speedometer matter ihas up until now been a minor annoyance. Not a big deal. Hopefully it stays that way.

Your analogy about the TV manufacturer is way off target for at least two reasons.

#1 -- If there was a color issue it wouldn't be the TV manufacturer's fault. It would be the people who produce the shows that get broadcast on the TV sets. BTW: I have rarely ever had an issue with the color schemes of movies and TV shows. Some websites use awful combinations, but none I've ever noticed on TV.

#2 -- If a speeedometer is hard to read, there could conceivably be life or death consequences in extreme circumstances. A speeding ticket in less extreme cases. This puts it in a whole different category than a TV show.

Let's say that a car has a faulty brake system that shows up in 2 out of 100 cars. Do you think the car company would issue a recall? You can bet your assets they would.

Now, I'm not comparing the seriousness of a brake problem with the speedometer needle. What I am saying is that if Honda was aware of the color matter I would like to think that they would make a simple and probably zero-cost adjustment in future models.

I didn't start this thread to get Acura to re-do the dashboards. I simply wanted to know if anyone else had this problem and to get ideas how to fix it.

crazymjb

Can you ask your car the speed?

TRK9

Wow, I never realized that colour blindness could be as severe as not being able to distinguish red and black. A friend of mine is colour blind and cannot distinguish shades of green and brown...

Another friend of mine is a usability expert, and when I was working on a website with her she made sure I didn't make colour references on my pages, such as, "Red Fields Mandatory".

So I agree with Neil that if more people are aware, they will accomodate for colour blindness in their design.

kosh2258

Defective brakes are defective for everybody, not just folks with special circumstances. Sorry, but I don't see your point.

Why wouldn't the TV manufactures be responsible? If they can provide settings from the factory for various picture characteristics, why not one for people with color blindness?

10% of the population is left handed too, but when was the last time you saw a vehicle with a interior that was totally mirror image available as standard in the US? And that is definitely a minimal cost thing to offer for any company that exports to Japan or Great Britain - the engineering is already done.

None the less, I hope you are able to find some solution to your problem.

Brewmaster

Kosh - I'm not sure what the issue is here?? If I've read this right, Neil only asked the service manager to see if he had other people approach him about this, or if he could suggest a viable solution ..

As far as I can see here, he hasn't asked for a recall, warranty work, admission of guilt, or even a free cup of coffee. He has recognized a concern and is looking for suggestions for a mod that will make this vehicle more friendly for him.

Why can someone replace all interior lights with blue LEDs but Neil can't ask about making his speedo higher res???

Parrothead

On a related topic... I'm not color blind and I find that the red needles on the TL, as well as the white lettering, against the pitch-black background stand out quite nicely, but I do wish the red print on the guages stood out equally as well. When glancing at, for example, the fuel guage, it appears that the "full" position is marked with a white "F", but unless I really look discerningly, the "E" for empty appears to be non-existent. Same thing with the "H" on the temp guage and the red zone on the tach. I'm surprised this design passed Acura's QC.

ericajackhannahjamie?

Which planet are you from ?

bluenoise

As I understand it, the gauges are illuminted with LEDs. I don't know what color the plastic needle on the gauges is, but there may be a way to replace the LED instead of altering the needle itself. For instance, if you can see amber clearly, you may be able to replace the red LEDs with amber ones. If the needle plastic is red, this would make them look more orange. I would think the LEDs are in the back of the cluster, too, so you wouldn't need to risk damaging the face of the gauges with fingerprints and dust by opening them up.

need4speedny

cant you just place a tape mark or a small something where the 30/55/ whatever common speed limits are until you learn where they are... it may be as simple as changing a lightbulb to alter the color a little bit as well... they often sell little "condom" like things that go over the light bulb to change colors... goodluck sorry didnt read the led post before this one..

matlack

Well since we are talking about colors blind, I have a questions for you guys. Just bought my 05, Silver with Ebony. The day after I bought it I started noticing that all four doors seem to be a different "shade" of silver than the rest of the car.

Took the car back into the dealer Saturday and asked them about this. While I was there I looked at four other silver 05's. All of the cars looked the same with the identical look as mine.

Anybody noticed this on there car? Or am I really going to the nut house???

Contivity

How bout getting a light installed into the cluster so that it might give off other hints of color (i.e green light)?

kosh2258

No offense to him intended. Here's the deal.

I'm not saying he can't ask or act on his own. But the people replacing the stock lighting with alternatives are doing it on their own and accepting the liability if anything negative happens as a result - whether they know that or not.

Honda has designed the car, good, bad or indifferent. In doing so they accept the liability, if any, of defects or shortcoming in the design and so on. Although most companies try to disclaim a portion of it.

Typically this indemnifies the dealer from liability, unless the dealer modifies the vehicle in a manner not sanctioned by Honda. That would be the case here and probably the biggest reason the dealer is not being responsive to the inquiry. They probably also don't have clue one as to what could be done in as much as they're mechanics, not physicans.

If they did modify or suggested a modification to the cluster and it wasn't 100% effective and could be proven to have resulted in some sort of accident or injury then they're on the hook and Honda can say don't blame us, the dealer modified our design without permission. The dealer is probably looking to avoid any liability issues, simple as that. Especially in a situation as gray (no pun intended) as this one is for them.

So this pretty much leaves Neil on his own to find a resolution.

My questions and dialog were intended to probe his thought process here and ended up being terse, my apologies for that. And, obviously, my point behind them wasn't apparent either.

Some of my commentary was intended to point out that humans suffer from a myriad of shortcomings and at what point does the line get drawn expecting products, any products, to compensate for those. In short, what's a reasonable expectation? I don't have a definite answer to that other than probably when the cost to do so makes the product so expensive that nobody can afford to buy it.
That's what I meant when I said it's a statistics cost/benefit game.

I hope this clears things up regarding my intent.

As I said before, I do hope he can find a resolution for this.

kosh2258

The clock ran out on editing the last post. When I was referring to products above I was talking about general consumer products.

Obviously with purpose built things like glasses, hearing aids and so on that are specifically designed to address a problem, a level of specific performance can be expected.

avs007

Personally, I think this case could be the exception, because blue on black, is scientifically proven to be the worst color combination, as it actually promotes fatigue, and can cause headaches, etc.

Changing the color, could actually be deamed a *good* thing. But anyways, it is pretty simple for somebody to change the color of everything. On other boards I've seen people change every piece of illuminated equipment in their car to some other color. Simple yes, but very tedious, as many components will require soldering.

KJSmitty

Wow,,
Quite the discussion over a such a benign request/issue.... Just have the speedo needle painted in color you can see best.

bluenoise

A few problems with painting the needle:
- It's lit from inside, so paint would blacken it for night driving
- High risk of getting paint on the speedo face
- High risk of fingerprints or dust on speedo face
- Additional weight of paint may affect the needle's ballistics
- It would likely look like crap
- It may reduce the trade-in/sale value of the car

I think the best bet is to change the color of the LED in the speedo.

crvlvr

if you cannot distinguish between red and green, how do you observe traffic signals? I thought those colors were chosen becuase its is not impacted by colorblindness..

bluenoise

I know a few people who are blind to red/green as they both look grey to them. To answer your questions, though, red is on top and green is on the bottom of every signal I've seen, so I'd think that would be clear enough to someone with that form of colorblindness.

Edit: According to this page, red/green colorblindness is the most common type affecting 99% of the people.