TwinTurbo335

Does it necessarily mean that a korean has to support their own product? That car is a pos. What race are you? If your not japanese then your not supporting your own product.

Eoanou

I personally like the Genesis, I think the interior is great the exterior styling is alright, but the interior is phenominal.

What Hyundai should have done is created a "luxury brand name" ala Toyota/Lexus and it would have helped rid of the stigma of buying a Hyundai. I'd get it, but the exterior doesn't appeal to me enough to want to buy it.

However if it's only 30K, it would be a great alternative to the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, and the Chevy Malibu.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Think about it this way, not all Americans support American cars too right?

juruki

iTrader: (2)

Hyundai always copies other cars or thats what it looks like to me. Like the one that looks just like the Accord (dont remember the name). This Genesis looks like a mix of a lot of cars together.... zero points for originality

Costco

Buying it because its Korean is as stupid as not buying it because its a Hyundai.

I think it looks good, not as good as the 2G RL but it has several things that Acura will never have: RWD, and V8 with tire-smoking power. They're no different from Acura.... hell, Acura even copies its own brand, Honda. We've all heard how the RL looks like an Accord. I never agreed with that but the 09 RL is looking like an Accord. The only unique car (not SUV) in Acura's current lineup is the 3G TL, the TSX is pretty much an Euro Accord with an upscale interior and the RL is a Honda Legend.

Me too... Honda and Toyota were a joke in the 70's, no different from where Hyundai is now but Hyundai is making leaps and bounds. I'm not Korean and I won't be buying this because its not the car I'm looking for (big huge luxury sedan) but if it does well it will prove that Hyundai can be a contender.

Simply because its a Hyundai, it doesn't deserve a chance.

Costco

I also forgot to mention the 6-speed automatic, which is pretty embarrassing on Acura's part that they still haven't come up with a 6-speed auto. In terms of racing in a straight line, the Genesis looks like it pretty much will blow away the RL and be a good match for the TL-S.

RWD V8 with 375 hp and 325 lb/ft of torque... that's Hyundai. No production car from Honda/Acura has made that kind of power, and I doubt there ever will be. Make excuses and hate all you want, Hyundai is advancing and Acura is regressing. The 09 TSX doesn't look as good as the 04-08 TSX and 09 RL is simply put, ugly. I'm afraid of what they have in store for the TL

Manual Transmission

Yep, it is disappointing that the TL Auto comes only in 5spd. Don't know about the next gen '09.

The weight on the Genesis isn't too bad either. It weighs just barely less than RL (for the V8 version Genesis).

Hell, even the V6 version of the Genesis has 290 HP & 264 ft/lb Torque, which is more powerful than the TL. It also only weighs about 80~ 90 lb more than the TL.

Manual Transmission

So did Japan. They have done a lot of copying in the past. THey have to copy and make refinements and learn from it.

Manual Transmission

Not really.

The TL's interor (and exterior) build quality is rather aweful. The door lines and seams are not perfect. They are out of alighnment. Also the way the dashboard is mounted doesn't look alighned either. The dash material is cheap, and use lots of plastic. Yes, I have the '06 TL 6MT and it's nothing great about it in terms of build quality. You want better built quality cars? get the Acura TSX or RL! Those are made in Japan, the entire car. I sat on the TSX and felt much better quality overall. The RL, of course, is good. I wouldn't be surprised if the Genesis build quality is far beyond the level of TL. It may come close to, or on par with the RL. Do not compare your TL to the RL, there is a huge hunky dunky ass jump in quality. The TL is made in America.

Manual Transmission

Hell, even the guys at Lexus forums are talking about the Genesis and how good they think of it. It's all over the place, spreading out.

Manual Transmission

Quoted by ES350Bob from the Lexus forum;


Toyota Chairman Views Hyundai as "Strong Enemy"


I think this is a serious compliment paid Hyundai by Toyota.


(...Hyundai got to enjoy this distinct pleasure today when Toyota's chairman Fujio Cho told a group of Korean journalists that it was a "strong enemy".)

http://www.autoblog.com/category/toyota/page/9/


PWNed?

Manual Transmission

Here is a member LexBob2 from Lexus forum said;


When the Genesis actually hits the market, it will be a good opportunity for CL members to meet each other in person.

There's going to be a lot of us (pro & con, as well as neutral on the car) at Hyundai dealerships checking out the new iron.

Soseductivesf

What are you a hyundai salesman?

Manual Transmission

Hmmm.... no. I don't sell cars.

But I say this car is getting a lot of attention from the public.

P.R.E.A.M.

I'm assuming that everyone that is on this site is not supporting American cars..and don't say acura is American car...

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

^lol, "I Go To Costco" has a Camaro, "I hate car" has a Buick GN....but probably most don't like them..

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

But then one could also argue Lexus is copying Toyota too....LS = Celsior, ES = Windom, IS and GS = base on Crown, RX = Harrier, LX = Land Cruiser...same goes for Infiniti, Q = Cima, M = Fuga, G = Skyline. These are simply rebadged cars, they don't even have upscale stuff (perhaps even downgraded).

I wouldn't say Honda is "regressing," at most it has stopped growing in terms of engine power and number of gear ratios. It seems like Honda didn't see the hp war coming and it reacted rather slowly. If I remember correctly, it was the first one to start the hp war, with its 2001 CL Type S, followed by TL-S, then Altima and G35 joined. And within a few years, BMW, Lexus, Cadillac also joined. In other areas, I think Honda/Acura has improved, SH-AWD for one is a very sophisticated and effective system. But I do hope that they would react faster to the competition, and also work on their marketing.

SSMTL04

yep, hyundai's come a long way...i think this genesis will be hot!!!!

Bearcat94

3G TL designed in Torrance California, built in Marysville Ohio, Sold primarily in North America (China also, but not elsewhere in Asia or Europe). If that's not an "American Car", what would you call it?

P.R.E.A.M.

Japanese Car

Costco

Now thats saying something. Its also pretty sad that most of them look down on Acuras. I won't mention any names but some of us know a very outspoken Lexus owner who got banned here on AZ.

I agree. A lot of the materials on the dashes/airbags don't match, not to mention a lot of TLs have mismatching bumpers. Every used 3G TL I've seen has a mismatching dash/door panel color. And while the TSX is made in Japan, there is a rattle issue, from what I've heard. A moderator from the TSX forum mentioned that his TSX rattles like hell in the Automotive News section, I think it was dom.

sbuswell

Hyundai has stepped up their game big time. This car will be a winner IMO. It's got all the credentials to do so. But for $40k you could buy a new Challenger or Camaro, which I'd take over the Genesis or if you want 4 doors a SRT-8 Charger, which is much more powerful.

erick3

I may be Korean, but C'MON...seriously...seriously..................... .........seriouslyyyy
I HATE Hyundais...sorry HAHA

Sometimes even my own kind...so damn LOUD... especially during LECTURES wtf...
sorry...again haha

Costco

You bought an American car, that's a good thing. Your supporting our economy. What is wrong with an American car anyway? I could care less where it was built as long as the final product is what I want. My car was built in Canada, technically still is American.

If anything, your 3G TL is more American than most Fords. They don't even offer the 3G TL in Japan. Be proud of your nation once for Christ's sake. If you're that embarrassed and so JDM, then move to Japan.

Yup, that's an American car. Not even the engines or window labels say "HONDA MOTOR CO" anymore, just the Acura badge. The only thing Japanese about it is the heritage and influence, nothing else. Acura started in the US, so that would mean its American anyway.... just like how Honda is Japanese because it started in Japan.

If you can give me a good reason why an American-built car is garbage, then I wanna hear it. And keep in mind your Acura is pretty much American unless its a 1G TL, RL, or TSX.

Bearcat94

It's an American car; It's a Japanese owned company.

By your logic Saab, Vauxhall, Jaguar, Volvo, Land Rover and Opal are American Cars. If that's how you see, I'm betting you're the only one.

Costco

Yup, same thing really. The problem with Honda is they innovate things, then they sit back and let it stagnate until profit margins start to dip, then they get back to work. SH-AWD is impressive, but it pretty much is a knock off of Mitsubishi's S-AWC system which has been on Evos for years before SH-AWD was ever introduced. Acura was one of the first to bring that technology to the States, but now they're just falling behind.

I don't blame em though, they're a small company compared to Toyota. The problem is like Mom and Pop shops vs. big retailers though, once the Mom and Pop shops can't compete they get phased out. Its not that extreme of a disparity between Honda vs. Toyota but its still there and clearly evident. Toyota, GM, Nissan and other companies are pumping out new powerplants, new platforms, new innovations left and right. What has Honda done lately that was really meaningful?

Manual Transmission

For just power, yea, if that's what you want, suit yourself, go get the Camaro or SRT-8 Charger. If I were to get a car and want something descent luxury, comfort, and outstanding handling I would get the TL Type-S 6MT. It has even better lateral G skidpad performance and [u]will[/b] mop the floor with SRT-8 Charger in the curvy race tracks. Of course, that is if I want good handling from a sport sedan and at the cost of less than 40k.

For Genesis, it provides more on the luxury segment and more comfort, and more power than its competitors.. Best value, best bang for buck and yet the design is beautiful, so refined..

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

About the only thing Hyundai will ever "own" is possibly Kia.

I mean seriously, this car looks decent on paper but I bet it'll be lacking in the real world. What ever happened to the XG350???

And what about when they re-designed the Sonata for '05 with all the speculation that it would equal the Accord and Camry? It still lagged way behind those two in all comparisons and resale on Hyundais will always suck, so I fail to see the value. People will likely still end up buying a used Lexus, Acura or Infiniti over this 40k car.

Costco

The SRT-8 Charger is a pig. The G8 on the other hand will pretty much destroy the TL-S curvy track or not, its handling has been compared to what BMW has to offer. The Camaro and Challenger can only improve on their sedan counterparts.

We'll have to see how the Hyundai Genesis does though. I know Hyundai Tiburons were used to rally back in the day but they don't have much to show for it recently.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Agree. But I think the SH-AWD is unique by the fact that it is more like a combination of ACD and Super AYC. ACD and AYC, from my opinion, work separately, and this is where Sh-AWD comes in. And in the ACD, the driver choses the torque split, while in SH-AWD, the computer does all the things. Now the S-AWC is similar to SH-AWD too, but I think it came out in 2007, as opposed to SH-AWD, which came out in 2004/2005.

Other than that, yea, Honda is a small company compared to Toyota and Nissan, and yet it tries to focus on many areas, cars, bikes, power equipment, boats, and even planes. Nonetheless, they came up with great products such as the new Civic Type R in Japan, and the TL-S. As far as Toyota goes, the only new things that worth mentioning are IS350 (and its new V6 that's used in many Toyotas now) and IS-F. Nissan has help from Renault and its boss Carlos Ghosn is simply one of the smartest men on Earth (and good at psychology too - as in he knows what the market wants). GM has been slipping a lot but no doubt, its new products are much better. Again though, GM is a big company, they don't really have to innovate much. For instance, the G8 is simply a rebadged Holden, Aura is a rebadged Opel Vectra, and the Astra, well it's simply an Opel Astra. So in the end, the only innovation GM has recently is the CTS (and its V version).

FiveLiterCheater

Besides rattles, the interior in the TL is extremely well built. I've never heard or come accross doors not lining up. I've had the TSX rental car and if you honestly think the TSX interior is better than the TL then you must be smoking something. Even the TSX guys will disagree with you there. And guess what, the made in japan TSX had rattles.

The RL's interior looks like its on another level than the Hyundai. I wouldn't even compare the two, especially since the RL has an original design, whereas the Hyundai ripped off several manufactures. The exterior of the Hyundai looks like a clash between the Acura RL, Lexus LS, Infiniti G35 (side profile) and BMW 5 Series...I don't see any original design cues in this car....at all. The only thing decent about it is the V8 under the hood, but at $40k for the V8 version, I think i'll go with something a little more proven.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Keep in mind the TL-S has destroyed its RWD rivals on a track before too, it might only be on one track, but at least it shows the TL-S is no slouch

Other then that, the Holden is pretty good indeed in terms of performance and handling. May be its refinement is still lacking, but it has also improved greatly from the past. For that kind of money, and if you don't mind the fuel consumption, I think the G8 is an excellent car.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, agree on the RL's interior, pure luxury.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

The 3rd G TL has gotten nothing but rave reviews for its interior quality. I don't see how anyone can call it or the exterior build quality awful by any means.

Manual Transmission

Just because how XG350 performed the Genesis will do the same? How do you know? Have you driven the Genesis? You can't just make assumption like that. Like the other guy in the previous page said, just watch it and see how this thing will turn out. Many predict that this could indeed become successful. The Hyundai seemed to have paid extra attention on the detail and build quality on this project. Even the reliability and quality has been good with late model Hyundai predecessors, such as Sonata, Veracruz, and Azera. They have been actually very reliable over the years. This Genesis is suppose to have a big jump in every aspect, power, handling performance, and build quality.

Costco

The S-AWC system has been on JDM Evolutions for several generations now... way before 2007. It may not have been called S-AWC but its still based on the torque-vectoring principle. And some prefer to dial in their own settings instead of being nannied by the computer.

The CTR is truly impressive, the one true new Honda/Acura product - a small FWD sedan thats a track beast. However, its pretty moot considering that its ONLY available in Japan, not even Europe. The TL-S is just another FWD sports sedan, more of an evolution from the standard TL than anything with the RL engine and sport suspension and chassis tuning.

While Nissan does have the financial backing of Renault it still doesn't matter. They simply are coming out with new great products. They just came out with the GTR which used the new PM platform, and along with that introduced the new VR37TT. That's 3 innovations in just 1 product.

A rebadged Holden, yes, but at least it has new sheetmetal and different fascias and interiors instead of just a different grill and name. In the end, again, it still brings the L76 over to the US, which correct me if I'm wrong isn't in any new US GM cars except the G8.

The CTS-V engine is a marvel itself, a modern day small block Chevy engine with the four-lobe Eaton SC, the first of its kind. Not to mention the Malibu which is quiet as hell inside, has a surprisingly nice interior, and is pretty fast too in LTZ trim.

Acura meanwhile is trying to make due with previous iterations of J-series engines, or barely updating them and it shows. Power output is among the lowest in the class, compared to the VQ which has undergone constant, big changes and Toyota's GR engine is better than both the VQ and the J-series.

Manual Transmission

Don't know about G8 "destroying" the TL Type-S 6MT in the curvy tracks... I will have to find out. If you were referring to the BMW 335i then it's a close call with the TL Type-S in the tracks. Don't even try to argue with me on that....


Hyundai did very well in WRC with that little Accent. It's amazing car for such application.

Costco

I got very similar mileage in my 2G TL-S with my Z28. With a heavy right foot, I got around 22mpg in my TL-S, around 30-40k miles. In my Z28, with a REALLY heavy right foot, I get 19mpg.

The L76 can only improve, power output is about the same as an LS1, with more torque, and it has cylinder deactivation so it runs like a 4-cylinder on the highway. And that's another innovation for GM which Honda has yet to implement.

rimz

you need to state all the facts before you start spitting out whose better than who...

the 3.8-liter V6 puts out 290 HP and 264 ft/lb Torque...the 3.3-liter puts out 268 HP and 233 ft/lb Torque...so of course the 290 HP version is better than our 258 HP TL... 3.8-liter > 3.2-liter...

now, the new Type S is a 3.5-liter putting out 286 HP...if they up the engine to 3.8 or more, it'll beat your beloved Genesis...

Manual Transmission

It's due to cheaper parts used on lower-end luxury brand cars. It's the same way with the cars like Lexus IS250 and 350. But the overall build quality and craftsmanship is still better on these cars, including the TSX. The Lexus GS/LS series and Acura RL do not rattle because they use more expensive parts on the dash and other interior parts. They also apply extra padding from the factory, that is why you don't hear rattles on those cars. Rattling doesn't automatically mean it's a POS car. I look at things other than just rattling.