nymrulez

Well ladies and gentleman, after being one of the lucky victims of the "rats ate my wires" phenomenon, I got lucky again today; a cracked wheel rim. For those of you who don't know by now about the rat situation - it is a commonly damaged wire inside the hood that is reported by Acura dealers across the country as having been "eaten by rats." When I brought my car in for the rat problem, I was told that it was not covered by warranty, but they would do my a favor by fixing it just this once and then when it happens again (which they assured me it probably would since I park my car on the street) that they would gladly make me pay $400 to fix it. Of course they didn't propose any other way to prevent it from happening, and denied my requests to insulate the wire with metallic tape even if i provided it to them. And of course, no normal person has ever heard of rats having a sweet tooth for car wires, even those who have parked old wrecks on the streets of Manhattan for countless years as we have. I guess the Acura wires are tastier.

So today my dad gets a flat tire. But after taking it to a local shop to get the flat fixed, the shop reports that the tire is fine, but the rim is cracked and therefore the tire is leaking air. Nobody in our family who has driven this car recalls hitting any noticeably large potholes in the last several weeks, so it's completely inexplicable. But of course, Acura says that cracked rims as always, are not covered by warranty.

The bottom line is this; what exactly is this warranty good for? The reliability of this car has been anything but stellar. (In addition to the problems I described above, we also recently had to have an in-warranty reprogramming of the ECM reprogrammed to solve a problem with the car shaking at 60 mph. ) It seems to me that Acura is doing everything in its power to insulate itself from covering the more pressing issues that people have with this car. And after the rat fiasco, how can I trust that Acura won't blame an engine failure on my driving style? Or blame a transmission failure on my acceleration style? This company has set a bad precedent, and is continuing to invent innovate new ways to wiggle out of warranty repairs that clearly shouldn't be needed in the first place.

mickey3c

Well the car is warranteed against defects in workmanship. Now while I share some of your frustration in some matters. The car was not necessarily tested as well as I would like to see how it holds up under everyday driving. The old find out where it breaks and either accept a certain level of repairs or improve the car or its parts should apply.

Is the rim dented at all? Was it purely a structural or manufacturing process defect?

rats, brakes, wheels... can add up much worse than anything else. ECM for shaking at 60... that's a new one.. What was shaking the engine?

I know lots of manufacturers rush to meet market demand... The value of the product reflects the amount spent on QA or parts. Just remember that parts in cars as well as weapons in the military, were made by the lowest bidder.

cM3go

The rim being cracked would fall under the tire warranty if anything, in which you would have to contact Bridgestone or Michelin (depending on which tires you have). The tire caused the subsequent crack so they would have to cover it, not Acura.

KilroyR1

If Acura fixed the "rats ate my wires" problem once, how is the warranty useless? Drop the drama meter a notch or two.

If a rim is cracked, probablility suggests somebody hit something. You have to agree that, while your crack may have mysteriously appeared, most requests to have rims replaced are due to people hitting potholes or other obstacles.

Just because a problem is not your fault, that does not mean it's Acura's problem.

Don

mickey3c

I am sure the tire company would laugh at you and say sure a rubber tire cracked your rim...

There are road hazard warranties for tires and some car companies offer them for rims as well. Once you get under a certain aspect ratio e.g., 60 or 55, you start seeing many more tire and rim issues from road hazards. A fact of life when you are driving a sports oriented car of any kind.

ndx2

Sorry to hear you had the wire problems - quite a few people posted about this, too. The reason the dealership service department refused to apply the provided electrical tape (or anything that you bring in) is because if anything should go wrong, they would be blamed & be held responsible for it. Pay some local shop for the job, if you really want it done.

Where is the rim cracked? Unless it's cracked in an unusual place, that points towards manufacturer defect, you can't seriously expect the warranty to cover that. On top of this, you got a flat tire! Which means what normally would've been a small pothole/bump, could've easily become a major one.

I think you should realize now that cars need constant maintenance and some just aren't covered by the warranty - read up on it and maybe you can see exactly what's cover under what condition.

Road Rage

Rodents chewing wires is not uncommon - there are all sorts of theories about how to stop it:

1) Moth balls
2) Best seems to be broken ceramics in some sort of bag or sleeve - rodents hate to chew through ceramic material like flower pots. This is an old trick we used for car collections, when mice and thigns tried to nest in the safety of exhaust systems. They would eat through metal mesh, but not a canvas bag filled with broken chards of plant pots.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but one ought to research things before pointing the finger at someone, or some company.

Your homeowners may cover this damage - get creative with your underwriter, not assailing a company - or its warranties. How is this any different than damage from hail or lightning?

I once hit a porcupine in Hew Hampshire when i was at college - quills ruined the Firestone tire - did I claim a defect in the tire?

snapfisher

When I purchased my '05, I was offered a $200 add on warranty that covers tires and rims up to 5 years or $2000 total replacement cost. Since I have previously damaged the rims often (enough) on my wife's Saab, I thought this was a bargain.

scrb09

Again if rodents eat your wire Acura cant help you much...thats like getting into an accident (not in the literal sense) and asking Acura to fix it. Sorry but the rodents are you problem not Acura's even then they gave you $400 worth of repairs for free. Now I am with you on the dealership not agreeing to do something so that this does not happen again comment.

I guess my feelings on the Rim cracked issue is the same, the rim was not cracked when you bought the care, I just dont see how one fine day you get a flat and the rim is cracked, you have to hit something in order to do that. I dont think Acura has to cover that.

Hugh9269

Very well put, I agree Acura has certain limits to waht they can do in warranty, I dont think acts of god, rodents or highway debris qualify. I had a damn golf tee stuck in my sunroof inner frame, which I thought was a rattle, they removed it for an hour of labor, very generous in my book.

Acura has always treated me well that is why i bought another one...

bluenoise

I suppose it's possible to crack the rim through improper tightening of the lug nuts, but I don't know where your crack is. The rats problem is not uncommon. We had rats chewing insulation off the wiring in our old house. They ate through the braided shield on our coax cable, too. It's best to find a way to get rid of them, not blame the wiring for being delicious.

It's a bummer your Acura experience has been so disappointing. Perhaps you can buy a new rim and also pick up a protection plan to cover any future problems.

empathy

wheels are a wear and tear item. imagine how people feel when they crack 5-600 dollar wheels.

stop hitting them potholes or curbs :P

nymrulez

You have all raised some very good points regarding what is a fair amount of liability in a warranty. However, when it comes to the rodent issue, I cannot agree with you that it is circumstantial. When hundreds or thousands of cars across the country are brought into dealerships with the same specific problem, that is a defect, not a coincidence. If a seatbelt breaks only in a serious accident but not a minor one, a recall is still in order. Likewise, if a car is parked in a seriously rat infested location, it is still defective if it has an overwhelmingly higher tendency to have its wires eaten by rats than what is reasonable.

All of this doesn't change the fact that with just 20,000 miles and 1.25 years of age this has already been the most unreliable car my family has owned in 15 years. (since our 1986 Nissan Maxima, if I remember correctly, in which the transmission died before the lease expired.) We had leased 3 different Subaru Legacy wagons in the years prior to this TL and even with my dad's horrible maintenance habits the car's reliability was impeccable. Never a rat problem, never a wheel problem, never a serious engine or transmission problem. And that's despite his tendency to change the car's oil every 50,000 miles and put tune-ups off until the end of the lease! This car, on the other hand, is maintained by me not him. And I watch it like a hawk and take it in to the dealer when even so much as a light appears on the dash. Now you can say what you will, that a luxury sports sedan is "supposed" to be more unreliable than a Subaru Legacy wagon, but it is certainly perplexing to me that I am seeing problems with this car that I barely knew existed before it. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my TL and I can't imagine driving anything else. But that is the very reason that I am so disappointed that it has not lived up to Acura's great reputation for service and reliability. Even my friend's 1999 TL, which has 130,000 miles, is in the shop far less frequently than my 2004.

Somebody also asked about the ECM reprogram I had - I looked at my service receipt and it turns out the ECM was done to eliminate the car's check engine light from coming on. Then at the bottom of the receipt it also said:

WHILE ACCL. ABOVE 60 VEH SHAKES AND EMISSIONS LIGHT COMES ON
CAUSE: 05-017A
2180A1 5TH GEAR VIBRATION OR DRONE S/B 05-017

No idea what all that means, but maybe some of you would.

bluenoise

If a car has thinner sheetmetal and, therefore, gets dented in regions with hailstorms more than other cars, it's not a warranty issue or even a design flaw. It's just that the car is not as well-suited for those conditions as others might be. The fact that rodents like the TL's wiring is neither a design flaw nor a manufacturing defect.

My car has been very reliable and trouble-free, save the problem of some peeling paint where the dealer had repainted the bumper. It is unfortunate that your car is giving you this much grief, so I can understand your frustration and disappointment. Your situation, though, doesn't sound like the norm.

mondesi99

Mice/Rats dont just like Acura wires. In my old Supra, they chewed through my washer fluid line and coolant line. I even saw some teeth marks on my spark plug wires. And this happened with my car parked in the garage.

nymrulez

Ouch.. that must've been even costlier to fix. What did you do to resolve this issue? The moth balls that everyone has been preaching or something more sophisticated?

bluenoise

frenchnew

Acura must be using that new Cheese Flavoured Wire Insulation for their cars.

No wonder I had a strong urge to chew on them.

Some areas it's a rat problem, some other is squirrells & chipmunks.

I see this several times a year up here and it is not limited to any specific makes of cars.

I guess we should just all start to send letter to car manufacturers requesting them to equip their cars with rodent traps as standard equipment

Newly proposed Car Advertising;

New for 2006

Slow as Hell

Comes Equipped with 257 Rodent Traps as standard equipment to prevent them from mulching on your wires, your interior etc...


Best regards

frenchnew

HEK

My mother in-law lives in Brooklyn and the rats are as big as some racoons here in MA, BTW you should invest in some traps and place them around your vehicle if parked outside, I have sensor lights that go off and scare away the local cats that tried to keep warm on the hood of my cars....

nymrulez

You're right about that one, they are awfully well-fed, and must be finding much more than just car wires to munch on to get that way. In any case, the traps aren't a bad idea; it could get costly since my car is parked on the street every night, but it is definately a method to consider.

MichiganRich

waaah waaa waaaaaah waaaaa waaahhhh

Since it won't cover my totally whacked out one-in-a-million problems that are specifically not covered in writing ot's worthless

ayethetiense

ya, quit whining.... at least they fixed the rat wire problem for free.....

i had to pay for mine

MR1

Sorry but I think you should invest some time into reading the warranty. Everything that happens to your car is not their problem.

mondesi99

Peanut butter and a mouse trap is about as sophisticated as I get. Got him pretty quick though.

mbwmn

fortunately mice are aparrantly squishy enough so that they do not bend valves when you suck them out of the nest in your airbox and shoot them out the exhaust of your CBR900rr...they like spark plug wire insulation, and will eat all of it leaving a bare wire-wound carbon core connected to the plug. i think the antifreeze from them eating the coolant hoses probably killed them before they got sucked into the motor (if it makes any of the tree-hugging bunny-humpers out there feel better).

i would expect that if this bike were under a warranty at the time this would likely NOT have been a covered item-

fasttl

There is no problem with the warranty, whats wrong is your expectations. Cracked rims are due to accidental damage whether you remember it or not. Thus you get to pay for it. Nuff said.

apwalsh

LOL, obviously you've never seen a NYC rat up close and personal. The rats are the predators up here!

Formula 350

My two cents... mostly like other but with some explanation...

You have wires that are 'not working'... You need to determine why they do not work... if they do not work because they separated because they were built wrong, warranty... if they were melted because of a hot engine, warranty... eaten by rats (or any other varmat), no warrenty... sorry.

Now for the rim... If there was a crack when delivered, you should have been losing air all along, not just after you had a flat tire.. Also, was the flat 'sudden'? If so, then your rim would have hit the pavement hard and could have cracked... So, to me, if no history of losing air, no warranty... again sorry.

Mike_TX

Well, there IS something to the wire insulation issue with certain cars. The story going around is that Acura (and a few other mfr's) use a wire with a soy-based vinyl material for the insulation. I guess no one thought about the fact that animals eat soy (Doh!).

Given that the problem IS widely reported, I would at least expect Acura to switch to another wire type that isn't so attractive to vermin.

And BTW, count yourself lucky ... some posters are saying the mice/rat damage has cost them as much as $700-1,000.

nymrulez

THANX Mike, for clearly wording what I've been saying all along. This is not a "one-in-a million" as one reader who accused me of whining in another post claimed. This is a VERY COMMON problem. So common, that when I got to my dealer (who is located in WESTCHESTER by the way, not New York City), he said he had to ORDER the wire because there were "so many cars being brought in with the rat problem." In fact, if someone were to do a formal inquiry on this, they would probably find that a very high percentage of Acura vehicles in major metropolitan areas are affected by this. So while you can accuse me of having overly high expectations for a warranty, you can't accuse me of having overly high expectations for a car and company that has a spotless reputation. If they want to keep that reputation, they will have to address the pressing needs of their customers and not point to fine print that vindicates them so they can save $$$. Also, I do consider myself lucky, and it is for that very reason that I am campaigning about this issue so much; to bring it to the forefront so that nobody else will suffer from it again.

fast-tl

NYMRulez, as for the comparison to your friend's Acura being in the shop less frequently, you said yourself you watch your car "like a hawk" and take it in 'if so much as a light comes on in the dash', so that would easily explain why your car sees the dealre more often...it's YOU, not the car! As for rats, you can do preventive maintenance based on list suggestions, but no way can you expect Acura to agree the car's wiring is defective against rodent abuse. Your rodents are your problem. Terrible thread, and inaccurate title!

JetJock

I've had good luck with my car. It's never been into the shop except for routine work. I did ask for new seats (buttprints) and my dealer swapped the covers with the '05 style without asking any questions. It did require new cushions to fit the new covers which weren't covered under warranty. I paid out of pocket for the cushions and seat heaters. The service manager said they would pay half the cost which ran me around $300 for both seats. I have nothing but good things to say about my dealer and Acura in general. The car has been perfect so far. No rattles, just absolutely perfect except for the seat issue.

Toasterthedog

Actually if a light comes on the dash then it's the car, not the driver. A cracked rim appearing after 1 1/2 years is the driver, whether they admit it or not. <<< Maybe someone in the family is afraid of losing TL privleges.

Formula 350

Hey NY...

You are probably right that there is a PROBLEM that should be addressed. But, I do not think that it is a warrenty job (in Acura's view), so, what to do... class action lawsuit!!! If it is a design flaw, then it would be proven that it is and then Acura would have to replace all wires and maybe design a better wire set.

KillerB

I can't remember if I've driven over any potholes today, let alone in the last 1 1/2 years.
I can understand that the rat problem has left a bad taste in your mouth, but that doesn't mean Acura is to blame for everything. You should give your dealership the benefit of the doubt, or seek a second opinion.

mickey3c

well I think it has more to do with acura just replacing the part and not geting a perm fix. I would be upset that I had to shell out several hundred for this problem, but when it is replaced and I will be back maybe 6 months later for the same thing... well that is not as acceptable.