BUD001

Infinitis are suffering from Nissan's cost cut blitzes in my view.... the G feels blah and i found a suspiciously low rent rear air outlet in the new M (Sentra, anyone?).
The truth is that Acura has slipped (most manufacturers suffer quality problems when they move plants from 1 country to another, the Mercedes ML being a prime example) but other manufacturers are doing no better. Lexus is an exception but i have no interest in them except the new IS and possibly the GS. I used to have a ES (97 ES300) as my first car. It drives ok but doesnt impart any dynamic qualities that i look for.

Otter

I just hopped into my friend's new Lexus. It's nice, but it's not NICE! I drive a 2nd gen TL, and she has a new Lexus. If I had to choose between a 3rd Gen TL, there's no comparison. The Lexus just looked tame and boring.

vtecracer

Lexus may be ranked highest in quality, but the quality of Lexus isn't as outstanding as some may believe. It seems like ALL manufactureres have dropped in quality these past few years as cust cutting becomes a must in order to keep their cars competitive. Lexus has just done the cost-cutting the best. If you go over to the Lexus forums, you'll see that a bunch of the guys there have issues and complaints about their cars too. You'll constantly read about the tranny problems with the RX and ES that have plagued the car for several years now with Toyota not releasing a single working fix. The GX's air suspension has been problematic for a while now with one side always sagging down lower than the rest of the car. The SC430 owners are complaining like no other about all the creaks and groans and rattles the car has (and yes, I know it was voted by JD POWERS as the best quality car. But just because it was voted to have the best quality of any car on the market still doesnt mean it has the immaculate quality that it may lead you to believe that it has). The current IS, well tranny failures and rattles because of a cheap interior with lots of hard plastics seem to be the number one complaints about that car. The new GS seems to be having rattle issues as well as headlights which build up condensation on the inside. Lexus had the same problem with the last GS and even with a totally new design, they didnt fix a headlight condensation problem.

Point is, be happy with what you drive. No car is problem free. If your Acura has a rattle, than his Lexus has a buzz. They all got something.

Steel

Not after posting 6.1 0-60 times.

Although It should do better. (Low 14's in the auto, lol!)

Steel

You must not read the infiniti boards, otherwise you wouldnt post such non-sense.

You can go to g35driver, and find numerous complaints about rattles, driving, etc.


Read before you post bullshit.

mio

Lexus = luxury, right?

but I don't know why some of the material inside a Lexus is so cheap.

apwalsh

5 years ago this statement was true, but now with alot of cheaper cars approaching some of the quality, power and features that the higher class cars come with, you can now compare cars like the TL or G35 for instance to a higer class car. The only thing you cannot really compare is the prestige or perceived prestige.

a_bu_lo

Agree
I almost pop my eyeballs out when I see the new IS250 not 350, with almost the same price as TL
But TL is still awsome

a_bu_lo

Hey, remember this,
"The higher the price, the better the quality"
who would spend more money to buy Lexus if Acura has the same quality as Lexus.
Overall, TL is very valuable(with all its equipments) at that price

Bobzmcishl

When it came right down to it, I felt the TL had a much more quality feel than the G35, so we went with TL, in spite of my misgivings about fwd. After 17,000 miles the TL still feels like a new car. I still don't like fwd but have learned to live with it. And Acura is finally putting quality tires on TL's. Us 2004 owners got screwed with the Bridgestone OEM tire. Theyare already wearing out.

vtecracer

Same price as a TL? I'm sorry but insider info shows that a comparably equipped IS350 costs almost $8,000 more than a TL w/nav. Only the IS250 will be able to compete with the TL price wise when both cars are equipped the same. Add $8,000 to the TL's price while keeping the equipment level the same and Acura could hand build the car for you using the finest materials. Then you'd have your quality. For the price premium Lexus is charging over the TL, I doubt the quality of the IS is going to be so substantial that the price will be justified, especially considering the only major option it offers that the TL doesnt is climate seats.

Steel

If you're going to compare top of the line to top of the line you have to use the A-Spec TL w/Navi, not a non-Aspec.

Suddenly they are priced the same.

Tunerman

Oh really? There where is the cost cutting on the 05+ models? 03-04 yea I understand but Infiniti fixed it. TL still has its issues with cheap build quality and you can't deny the fact that it has a lot of issues for a 35k car.

Tunerman

I do read them, I also read this forum. This forum has a dedicated area for problems. The Infiniti forum does not. And they do not have NEAR hardly any issues or complaints. I rarely see any everyday and I see a ton here.

Maybe you need to open those eyes some.

There is a reason why Infiniti was rated higher than Acura in tests

Steel

Marginally higher doesnt mean shit, and that's all it was.

Just because this site has a problem section doesnt mean shit. Any true enthusiast forum from ferrari to kia has a fucking problem section.

Marginally higher in tests = more accurate than message boards bitching.

And notice the complaints on this forum, oh my deck lid rattles a little, oh my door rattles. Guess what all cars do that, does the TL leak water? Nope, but the g35's do. Heck the day my buddy picked his coupe up it leaked in the car wash. Ridiculous to judge a car just by that huh?

vtecracer

Actually, I don't consider the A-Spec package as an option. It is more a dealer add on than anything. You can't even add it to the Acura when you build it on Acura's website. Even if you did want to compare an A-Spec TL, suddenly, they are NOT priced the same. With the A-Spec package costing $5,000 from the dealer, that would make an A-Spec w/Navi TL still $3,000 cheaper than the top of the line IS350.

vtecracer

I agree with Steel. I have a feeling that the lack of complaints about the G35 has more to do with people just expecting it. Tunerman, your perception about quality is all wrong. If you read about all the people posting about tranny issues in the 2nd generation TL forum, you would think that the TL has the worst tranny in the world. But would it surprise you to know that the G35 actually has MORE reported transmission problems than the 2nd generation TL? The G35's problems just weren't as pronounced by the media and everything else. I think I read the numbers on NHTSA or something like that. Perception is one thing, facts are another.

noychris

Lexus is better than Acura, dealership wise! for instance, compare an Acura dealearship to a Lexus, you'll see the difference.

IMO, Lexus is for old people!

Steel

You're comparing MSRP from Lexus and "average" price here.

Msrp on an A-Spec TL (which regardless of whether or not you count it, it counts) is over 40k.

vtecracer

Well I'm glad we can both add here. But with subtraction, you'll see that when you subtract the A-Spec TL navi's price from the top model IS350 price, you have $3,000 left over. $5,000 is not the average price for the A-Spec package, it is the MSRP. $35,000 MSRP of TL/Navi plus $5,000 A-Spec= $40,000. $43,000-$40,000= $3,000.

Steel

MSRP is actually over 6k for the a-spec.


(At least at all the dealerships in Chicago.) Of course you dont pay that.

vtecracer

Can you tell me where you found the MSRP for the A-Spec? I can't seem to find it on the Acura website since the A-Spec package is not an actual TL model offered from Acura, just an accessory package. But for arguments sake, lets say it is $6,000 MSRP. Thats still a $2,000 difference. But hey since were adding accessories to the TL, shouldn't we add them to the IS also? Like the upgraded 18 in rims? Like I said before, if Acura considered the A-Spec package a model or actual option, they would let you add it to the car when building it online. It's as much of a dealer add-on accessory as a leather front nose mask is. Maybe I should have worded my comparison a little differently... The most expensive model you can get a TL from the factory vs the most expensive model you can get of an IS350 from the factory (DEALER INSTALLED ACCESSORIES EXCLUDED)? Now whats the price difference there? Are we back at $8,000?

Steel

It's an Acura Product is it not? I dont care if it's not sold on the website or it's a dealer option. It's something you can get on the car FROM ACURA whne you buy the car. THere is nothing more to discuss. The price difference isnt 8k because you're not adding an aftermarket product, you're adding ACURA.

Steel

Again, if we're comparing MSRP, which you are in the IS350, the TL is 36.5+6K.

vtecracer

So then in that case, should we compare an L-Tuned IS350 to an A-Spec TL? Add $10,000 to the IS's price for the L-Tuned package and then compare it to the A-Spec TL. There is nothing you can say about the IS350's price. It will cost THOUSANDS of dollars more than a comparably equipped TL. Let the consumers justify the worth of those extra thousands. They have in the past even when comparing the 1st gen IS vs 2nd Gen TL.

vtecracer

Ah, so then in that case, should we compare an L-Tuned IS350 to an A-Spec TL? Add $10,000 to the IS's price for the L-Tuned package and then compare it to the A-Spec TL. With the L-Tuned package you get everything you do with the A-Spec package, except the L-Tuned also comes with an exhaust. There is nothing you can say about the IS350's price. It will cost THOUSANDS of dollars more than a comparably equipped TL. Let the consumers justify the worth of those extra thousands. They have in the past judging from sales numbers even when comparing the 1st gen IS vs 2nd Gen TL. The IS350 will always costs more than a comparable TL with nothing extravagant to justify the huge premium.

TL_BLUE

i am a semi-happy '04 acura tl owner. Great price and a great car for that price. But when it comes to quality (cabin vibrations, crackling, horrible suspension) - lexus makes acura look like just another honda.

i have serious complaints about the two things i mentioned above. i drive around a 2000 ES300 for errands and the smoothness of that car really makes me feel like i should have bought a ES330. i know the TL is supposed to be more sporty than the ES series, but even still. the suspension could have been a little better!

just one example of many i am sure.

Acura is a good brand and has cool cars, but lexus is doing a better job.

Steel

Let's compare a kit from Lexus Racing, to a kit put together by ACURA, great idea.

Tunerman

Leak water? That's the first time I ever heard of a G35 ever leak water. Making up stuff now eh.

Steel, your such a commedian. I have owned many products and Acura CL-S was one of them. Would I own one again, sure, but the TL didn't do it for me TWICE when I looked at them.

Tunerman

That's a BS lie when I owned a 2ND GEN CL and know for a fact Honda/Acura has a enourmous amount of tranny issues. Way more than the 6MT issues that Nissan has. That is a FACT.

Back your statements up, because I am waiting.

Legend2TL

And likewise back up your so-called facts.

Many of your postings claim to be factual, if so indicate the source with a URL.

And just because you owned a Acura means you know it either,
I've owned and mantained three and that only qualifies me as a repeat owner and shade-tree mechanic

Tunerman

I don't have to back mine up, its easy. Do a search on this forum or the CL forum or the ODY forum or the v6 accord forum or the CL forum. You will see that every V6 model Honda has produced has had failures in the tranny department. FACT.

You can't deny the fact Honda has quality issues and they are not up to part with Lexus or Infiniti. Honda use to be really good back in the late 90s to early 2000, but thats it! Since they have gone down hill.

Boosted_2gz

How come I never see this thread,
anyway to back up Lexus as a loyal customer, try to match this.

Can Acura turbocharged their car at 20psi with stock internals and still come out with zero problems and zero rattle even after 25k mileages and 55k on the odometer?



In all seriousness, both Acura and Lexus are great manufacturers, Lexus may win a little in term of reliability and quality, but Acura is not that bad either !

Legend2TL

Let's try again, back it up with simple facts and actual statements made by sources within the auto-press and consumer industry not from your rambling and ranting.

So unless you back it up with actual factual statements, it's not easy.

Steel

Go search "water leak" on a g35 forum, it's there.

And even if you dont like what you see, I was sitting in one, IN A CAR WASH, that leaked through the trim on the driver door. Of course it was replaced by the dealership at no cost, DEFECTIVE.

I guess I'm lying.

a_bu_lo

Okay,
I just want to say. If I's to rank all the brands in Jap cars
I would rank them as:
1. Lexus
2. Infiniti
3. Acura
4. Toyota
5. Honda

Anyone agrees?
I can't believe so many people compare their TL with Lexus.
I personally drive an 04TL with Nav.
And sometimes I drive my dad's RX330 wth Nav.
Lexus is a better brand compare to Acura.
Consider the cheapest car in Acura(EL), and the Cheapest car in Lexus(ES).
There's a BIG difference in their prices.
But the quality, I would say pretty much the same, maybe lexus is abit more luxury.
And the Acura dealership is so much different compare to Lexus's.
Today, I just went to pick up our RX at the Lexus dealership.
it's our 4th or 5th service, I can't remember actually.
But we ordered the RX330 from Jap in 2003.
Anyways, and every time after we done services, they always give us small gifts.
Today it was a very GOOD fountain pen.
And their attitudes are so much better!! compare to my original dealership
Overall,after driving my 04 TL for a year.
I am very satisfied with it, and I wouldn't compare to other cars.
If you are satisfied with what you have, why do you want to compare to other cars? Just to show it's superior than others?
JUST SHUT UP AND ENJOY OUR TLs!!!
stop arguing back and forth!

Steel

What's an ACURA EL?

By the way, TL isnt the cheapest, you have RSX, RSX-S, and TSX.

Clown.

Tunerman

Many articles have been released from Honda themselves if you do a search instead of being a idiot and trying to deny Honda has had many issues.

I mean, Honda has spent millions doing recalls on trannys. hmmm.

Tunerman

Well, it was rare to see a issue of that type pop up. But its not common unlike the TL issues.

Tunerman

Yea, and thats what hurts Acura. Luxury cars don't come with 4 bangers, or cheaper 25k- cars. If you want the prestige look of a real luxury manufacture like Lexus or Infiniti, you ditch the 4 bangers.