ABKN

So says consumer reports...

http://money.cnn.com/popups/2006/autos/reliable/3.html

Music to my ears since I just picked up a 2006 TL....

enigmaos

iTrader: (4)

can't get enough of Acura.

Mr. Hill

Very cool. The Crown Victoria should be under reliable family car.

Man I had one, you needed a bazooka too kill it.

dampfnudel

What else is new ?

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

Heck yes they put that ugly ass 300 under least reliable

Desert_TL

I had a free trial subscription to consumer reports when i was new car shopping. Lexus was listed as the most reliable brand overall. Second was Toyota, third was Acura, and forth was Honda. Inifniti was 8 and Nissan was 11, I think. Kia and Hyundai were both listed as more reliable than BMW, and Mercedes was dead last (28th out of 28)

shayan

iTrader: (1)

Aewsome

Lexus/Toyota is like number one through most of those categories. Im glad Acura/Honda was up there with Lexus/Toyota.

Did you see all the Mercedes and BMW's under the least reliable cars category

SouthernBoy

Keep in that Toyota recalled more vehicles than they sold last year.

berite100

hyundai azera is higher in rank than the tsx and the tl? damn.

wilsel

I honestly don't see how toyota/lexus was at the top of every list. I know they make some reliable cars, comparable reliability to honda/acura. But the top in almost EVERY category?

Never mind more like 6 out of 10.

pimpin-tl

They sell more cars than anyone else, so that might have something to do with it.

ReWritable

Actually it is 7 out of 10, the Pontiac Vibe is the same Toyota Matrix (Toyota Voltz JDM), produced by Toyota at their NUMMI plant..

TLyoung'un

As a South Korean citizen and previous owner of a Hyundai, it's been a lot of fun keeping track of the company's progress and seeing how many people they have been surprising over the years. Bang for buck (more in terms of quality not hp) Hyundai is probably way up there and I hope they launch their own luxury brand soon.

wilsel

Well when you offer a 100K mile warranty... I guess you have to make sure it will be reliable.

jimmyl729

No, General Motors still has the largest share in the market. GM having Buick Chevy GMC etc, and Toyota having Lexus Toyota Scion.

chill_dog

Even being a white guy who's never owned a Hyundai, watching them has been fun. If they keep going in the direction they have over the last five years, they will be a major player, particularly with the American brands faltering as much as they have of late. A friend of mine has almost 150k miles on his Santa Fe and has only had one problem, which they fixed under warranty (wasn't even major).

Desert_TL

Now THAT would be interesting. I might be interested in that, depending on how well they execute it. Pretty much all of the car mags (CD, MT, R&T) gave the new Sonata V6 good ratings for the amount of money it costs. I never test drove any hyundais though, due to the stigma still associated with them

gotjesus

Yes, hyundai has improved a lot. REally...
they are slowly growing in us market. Kia also is slowly getting more into the market. with that new plant coming soon in georgia, where i live. I probably gonna get a hyundai next time. But I love my TL.
Good to hear that TL is on top of reliable cars, and i feel the same way too and that's why i bought this car as well as you guys, rite?
Have fun guys.

MR1

They are doing just what Japan Inc. did with their autos back in the 1970's. Main problem is that everyone one that I've driven so-far handles like a floaty boat.

When they get that taken care of watch out.

Desert_TL

No doubt. I didn't even test drive a single American car. They're all pure crap. I didn't even want to waste my time on any of them. I test drove a few german cars (BMW Z4, BMW 325i, Audi A4, Mercedes C350) and I thought they were all overpriced for what you get. Plus it costs like a mofo if you want to option a BMW up with power everything, navi, seat side bolsters, etc. If you try optioning up a 230hp 328i with leather seats, 17s, leather-wrapped steering wheel, steptronic auto, xenons, bluetooth, autodim mirrors, and satellite radio, you're over $40k with no nav. All that for a car that is in the lower half of the reliability scale with the rest of the American and German brands. Yeah the overall performance will be somewhat better but I test drove all of these cars and I actually think the TL feels very athletic and nimble for such a large FWD car.

• Lexus ES 350 (3 times)
• Lexus IS 350 (twice)
• Audi A4
• BMW Z4 (twice)
• BMW 325i
• Acura TL (twice)
• Acura RL
• Infiniti G35
• Mercedes C350
• Toyota Avalon
• Subaru Impreza WRX STi

I chose the TL out of those for its impressive performance and handling, low price for what is basically a "fully optioned out" car, and great reliability history. I know lots of people complain about little things like rattles, but when was the last time your engine failed? That's what really matters. My neighbor got a Mercedes C230 at the same time I got my TL and she has already had to take her benz in to the shop 4 times for engine problems. As much as my one rattle annoys me, I think I beat her in the reliability category.

realfresh

Touche, the Azera isn't a bad lookin car either, also something like 263hp? for like 25,000, not bad. We don't even have rear sunshades or power folding mirrors

xavier25

Yea, I saw a commercial on TV for the Azera with power steering wheel, power folding side mirrors and rear shade...was like, wtf, a Hyundai has that. They're definitely stepping it up.

SuperStar

I find these to be funny. This TL has been less reliable than any of the Grand Cherokee's I have owned, and those things are rated dog shit.

It's luck of the draw I guess.

Tim L.'s TL

toyota makes better cars than honda. I would've gotten the lexus is250 if the car is little bit bigger, so I went with the TL. TL is a great car, and I am loving it!

Desert_TL

Yeah. I would have purchased an IS350, but the number one thing that turned me off was that it was just a bit too small for my tastes. Every now and then I regret not getting the IS350. It has a lot of power, interior is very nice with a LOT of standard equipment, looks really nice (IMHO). Just a bit too small. And plus, have you seen the sunroof controller on the IS? It's this stupid plastic dial that you have to turn in order to open the sunroof. I thought it was retarded. I felt like I was operating a sunroof on Kia. And since I open the sunroof every time I drive, I need my sunroof contols to be better. *shrug* ANYWAY

Yeah, the Azera has that plus power tele/tilt steering wheel and some other things.

But what it comes down to for a lot of us (perhaps most of us) is that brand recognition was a pretty big factor in our decision to buy an Acura. For example, if you option up a Toyota Avalon with nav, air conditioned seats, etc., you can get it up to about 99% of a Lexus ES350. But a fully optioned up Avalon costs about $39k, while a comparably equipped ES350 is $40k. For an extra thousand, I bet everyone here would buy the Lexus if for no other reason than brand recognition. You pull up next to someone and they see you in a Toyota, they don't know how much you optioned up your Avalon and they may not even know that the Avalon is higher than the Camry. So they just see a Toyota, probably $20k car, and they've probably driven by a hundred Toyotas during the day before they saw yours. BUT If they see you in a Lexus, they automatically and immediately know that you spent at least $35-$40k and there is no doubt that the Lexus is a nice car, and it will be one of a few lexuses they see in the day. It's similar with the Accord and TL (although not quite as much - I see a lot more TL's than ES's in general).

That's the problem Hyundai will undoubtedly have with the Azera. 99% of people don't care and/or are unfamiliar with the Hyundai "structure" (Accent<Elantra<Sonata<Azera). They just see a Hyundai and think "dime a dozen", "$15k at most". I personally would never spend $25k or more on a Hyundai for that reason. Hyundai is universally viewed as the "economy car" and even if you drive the Azera, you won't be able to shake that "econo" image.

If Hyundai introduced a luxury brand, I think it would go a long way to fix/help that image. A Hyundai luxury brand would offer distinction and a "no-mistaking-this-for-an-econocar" attitude. Furthermore, a luxury brand wouldn't be "restricted" by the Hyundai economy image so they could take the Azera and run with it, option it up even more (maybe give it a 300+hp V6), give it options and equipment that would make it comparable to an Acura RL or a Lexus GS or an Infiniti M45, charge $30k for it, offer the Hyundai 100k mile warranty, and it would sell like crazy. Hell I'd buy one! As long as they were very careful about the styling and made it different enough from the Azera/Sonata that you wouldn't mistake it for a Hyundai.

Bammyz

Well, that does not surprise me, since there are not many reliable cars being made nowadays. I hope that Honda/Acura can teach the other car manufacturers how it is done, right!!

It also does not surprise me that BMW makes the bottom of the list. BMW and MB are notorious for having problems! Many consumers "assume" that because they are expensive, luxury cars and they are "German" engineered, that that makes them the best cars around! Not so.

Furthermore, Toyota may sell more cars, but that does not makes them the "best" cars. As another poster stated here; Toyota had more cars returned than sold, just speaks in VOLUMES about Toyota's quality. Toyota sells "high volume", and people just "assume" that they are the best cars, so that is what they buy.

Interesting thread!

goswald80

Be careful about making generalizations. You are absolutely right about the reliability issues german cars have, but you cannot fault their driving prowess. The few times I drove my mom's SLK320 was a blast, not b/c of cool gagets/options (it actually didn't come with much considering how much the car was), but b/c that thing handled like it was on rails even with the top down. It was just FUN to drive top down, and I could put it down with the temp outside in the 30-40s and still be comfortable with the heat and seat warmers on.

I actually bought my TL outright, and don't think I didn't consider putting that as a downpayment towards an SLK350, M3 etc., but I know the kinds of issues those cars can have, especially down the road when they're out of warranty. I'm relatively young and can't afford to be dropping X-thousand here and there on repairs etc., let alone the hassle of making arrangements if the car has to go in the shop. I know if I take care of my TL, statistically there's a great chance it won't give me a problem for as long as I own it. It had just about all the features and gagets I could want (ventilated seats would be nice for shirtless driving on hot days though :P), the price is fair, and it has brand recognition to boot. For my move from import junkie to "sensible auto" it was a no brainer. The only issue I had was "well, a 25k car will get me where I want to go in the same time"... but eh, I'm happy.

ABKN

I agree with the comment about generalizations. As a new TL owner, I am overjoyed with the reliability ratings. However, I test drove a 325 i on the same day as the TL , and for sheer driving pleasure BMW was number one. Why did I get the TL? The package I was getting for the money! And throw in the reliability factor, and it is very , very hard to argue against a 'loaded' machine with enough power, looks, navigation for 31K when it would cost atleast 40K to get the same kind of package in a bimmer. Ofocurse, compaints about bimemrs being in the shop frequently didn't help their cause.
I would though, not hesistate to buy a BMW at some point in the future when a 10+K (maybe 20K with all the cost of ownnership thrown in)differential does not make as much of a difference to me.

NJSGTI

I noticed the same thing, but it has a little star next to it that says based on one year, the Acuras and Lexus were based on a longer period of time. I think that Hyundai is moving up, but I think they are still seen as cheap cars like Kia. I also don't think the Lincoln Zephyr will be on that list much longer since it is a Ford.

hotdish

I heard a couple yrs ago in a management class that Hyundai Group generates roughly a quarter of the GDP of Korea. As separate business entities since 2003, I can see a luxury line possible on the horizon. Whether it will penetrate the market though remains to be seen.

laidback93

I see it taking quite a long time before the stigma that Hyundai has in the U.S. wears off. I too have heard their quality has been getting better. That Accord look alike doesn't look too shabby either.

Hyundai can at least be proud that Kia takes the POS car status now!