Road Rage

There was a letter in either MT or R&T this month from a guy who bought a Mitsu Evo for his kid used, and it turned out the car was already "warranty denied" on the powertrain, because Mitsu had found that the car had been modified and auto-x'd or tracked on an Internet Chat Room!!! The guy said that Mitsu admitted it as the source. Now, this may be an urban legend, buit I for one would find it sobering to think that if i decided to use a 10w30 rather than a 5w20 that Acura would deny warranty coverage "flat out" because they saw something on this Forum!

Most mfr's that encourage performance in their advertising will walk away from a repair in an instant if they found you did, whether or not the racing caused. I have to give due props to Ford SVT - they sponsor all sorts of track events, and will not deny a repair for a car used properly in those events - unless the owner does something idiotic, like hitting 2nd rather than 4th at redline.

Anyone had an experience with AHM based on web postings?

Do not even get me started on the issue of computer forensics based on the "black boxes" incorporated into nearly every car's ECM, ABS, and stability assist. I am working on a device that will sweep clean all that data, but mark my words, this will be a coming thing for both trial lawyers and mfrs - I have heard reliable sources state that good ol' BMW does this - they can tell if you went 1 RPM over redline EVER, and will bust your ballz - the Ultimate Prosecutorial Machine! (I have had so many bad experiences with that company and seen so many engineering disasters that I would never buy another).

roadman

Tracking a car that has a Navigation system is a piece of cake, thus recording it's speed and or abusive tactics. The NJ Turnpike Authority experimented with giving speeding violations to drivers who passed between the tolls to quickly a number of years ago. That idea went right into the swamps

If a car has a rev limiter that will shift the car into the next higher gear, then where is the abuse. Why put on WR rated tires (168mpg) in a driving environment that even going 75mph will get you a lighter wallet in a heartbeat.

In any scenario Big brother is always watching

Drwaz99

That story is not quite right, if you have time (I mean a while, as it it like 20 something pages) here the link to the story off of evolution.net: http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=83525

caball88

navigation is passive and you cannot track a car's position from a remote station. the satellites simply feed longitude and latitude info to the car and the onboard system does the rest. there is no communications feedback to any of the satellites. can you imagine the network traffic nightmare that can occur if satellites received signals back. not to mention the possiblity of DOS attacks against the satellites rendering them useless and remember most of these are military satellites use to guide weapons. i don't think uncle same would ever risk that possiblity. OnStar however is a celluar service and your vehicles position can be tracked from a remote location much like LoJack.

fast-tl

ditto on what caball88 said. Our cars only *receive* GPS info...they don't transmit back. Some husbands should be thankful for this ;-)

geminis2

Cell Phones Do...They recieve and Transmit

PhilB

Any decent lawyer would rip Acura a new hole if they tried to say that you were abusing your car because your cell phone was accelerating too fast. Try to prove the phone was in the car at the time.

-phil

rescueswimmer

not to mention how would mitsu know about that specific car from a chat room. The only way is if somebody was posting there vin. Urban legend. But big brother does want to watch.

GunnmeTaLCURA04

so let me get this straight. .. i knew this guy who did leases. and paid someone to put back miles. new cars. with didgital not those counters.. they can find this out right.. i told him its bull shit...that they can find out and that he will get in trouble one day. i dont know were the hell he is now. but he currently has a 350z.. and he is in his 1st year last time i saw him and he was at 28,000, so so he says.. but can this be done? i think not.

Aegir

Not an urban legend: http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...._code=02612566

If it is, it's a really elaborate one.

caball88

rolling back digital displays are even easier than the old school dials. the older dials were usually rolled back manually and when done right no one could really tell. the new digital ones all obey OBD II protocol and can be programmed through the diagnostics port. there are people offering this service and its completely legal. they state that they aid owners who have had an engine swap/replacement and want to reflect the vehicles actual engine miles. i do not support this and think its a complete fraud most the time when people actually use the services like these. so your friend that rolls back the odometer is probably ripping off some other poor sap who will end up with his car.

Tread

I know for a fact that Acura reads this site, my regional knew about my posts, post count, and what I was saying about the car (and handed me print outs of the posts).

We all make the mistake of giving a range of our vin, and it is not hard to use the search tool to search for a vin range.

I was not turned down for anything, but it did bring me into the real world that they watch and know.

I guess the regionals have a lot of time in hotels, so they check things out (one regional even started posting in direct response after an owner started posting about their bad experience with a dealer and that regional)

So yes, they do watch and can figure out who you are by some keywords that we say among several posts (like dealer, vin range, approx date purchased, car color/interior, navi or not, problems reported, etc).

It is easy for them to finger print us since they have access to all this information on their side, and our wonderful search tool!

So make sure you change some facts to protect the innocent

Tread

Most newer cars have a secondary system that records miles independent of the odometer, and can be accessed by dealers. The first digital systems did have faults, but it is a cat and mouse game, that now they have the one up on.

BMW uses a key reader when you bring in the car, it tells them the milage of the car (not from the odo), the system monitoring outputs (what failure codes have come up, and what svc is required) and even more on the newer cars (they have been doing this since at least the late 90's, maybe longer, with each year additional info is recorded in the key (has it's own flash memory built into it).

Like Rage is saying, they are watching.

caball88

oh i don't doubt that there are new measures which they take to ensure the odometer is not tampered with. but only the dealer can tell if its been modified because the protection is not always uniform across the board. i am not aware if the inspection stations at your non dealer service center reads the odometer off this "key" that you are talking about. in fact in jersey the mileage is not recorded when the car is due for inspection. so visually the odometer is a lower mileage and the buyer has no way of telling(even carfax reveals nothing).

Xpditor

They don't have to transmit. They record. For later debriefing in the svce dept.

XP

ravi

no doubt about it that acura and acura dealerships read this site
i had a situation where i bought the TL from another dealership locally instead of the dealership i went to first... (since they had it on the lot)
well a a week or two passed and i got a call from that first dealership.. guy didnt sound too happy hehe..but hey my money my choice.

neuronbob

I'm positive that the systems in the car monitor basic information such as speed, gear, etc. over a certain past interval. Not sure what that interval is.

Further, I'm positive Acura monitors this board (hence my occasional refrain, "Acura, are you listening?"), and they should, they need to know what issues bother us as customers. Proof of this came when early in the run of the 2004 TL, an engineer from one of their suppliers came around asking for comments on the interior trim. I'll find the link later for you. After all, this is the busiest board devoted to their current flagship car (until the RL gets here). I'm sure they keep track of the tire complaints, and my tri-monthly quality updates.

roadman

I was thinking of "On-Star" as the realtime vehicle tracking, but my NAVI does keep track of my destinations it is not unrealistic that it keeps detailed info on the time it took to get from points A to B. There is an on-board PC that can easily gather this information, it does not need to trasmit it back via GPS.

Aquineas

I'd be very surprised if Acura didn't keep an eye on this site, not necessarily because they're spying on us, but in order to gather unobstructed feedback from the owner community. Such a medium like this has many advantages over market research as it was done in the past.

I know that when I owned my 1999 Cobra, SVT monitored www.corral.net and a couple of other mustang sites. SVT is awesome, btw. They were right on top of things with the low hp fiasco that Ford dropped into their laps (Ford engineered the 1999 Cobra, not Special Vehicle Engineering, the engineering arm behind SVT). Needless to say, after the hp fiasco, SVT has done all the Cobras since. With the 2003 Cobras dyning in the high 300s at the wheels, it's safe to say that the 390hp they report is underrated, and so long as John Colletti is running things, you'll never again see a Cobra that doesn't have advertised hp.

Anyway, Acura, if you're reading this, I'd love for one of your folks to ride in my car and help with a fix for the squeaking, popping, etc. My wife's 04 Accord V6 is much quieter on the inside, and that just shouldn't be.

GaleForce

I don't think a warranty could nor should be voided for driving a car like a car should be driven. Any car that HAS to be driven slow and carefully (I don't mean doing things stupid, I mean making sure the car stays in one piece) doesn't deserve to be on the road.

Pug

I can't believe there aren't more Acura sales people trolling this forum for business.

kosh2258

It's perfectly acceptable for any car company to read boards like this and use the information. Most boards are open to the public and are, in effect, public records.
Posting here isn't like speaking with someone one to one, it's like speaking at a public forum, and you're liable for what you say in a public place.

People post complaints about their cars here knowing full well that Acura is reading this board. The posters do it with the idea of getting Acura's attention and some sort of response to the posters benefit. Why shouldn't Acura, or any other car company for that matter, be able to use what's posted here, or other boards, to their benefit if need be? :sneaky:

And more over don't think for a minute that the competition doesn't troll these various boards seeing where their competitors have weak spots or what potential customers think about their particular product. I'll bet money that some of the postings here in support of Chrysler, and other cars, have been made by these monitors. (note to Chrysler trolls : :pfawk: your cheap, crappy, products - Der technik ist kaput)

Don't want your words used against you? Then think about what you're saying and who the audience may be before you say it.

rescueswimmer

Tread, I dont want to call you al lier but . Unless your name is Tread in real life there is absolutly no way your reginal rep could possible know who you are. Why would they waste there time and print out your 150 posts. Unless you call them up and say hey Im Tread on the acura forum. Does acura read the site absolutly. Customer feedback good and bad help them make business decisions. The vin number is the only means beside your name to say its you 100%. a vin range like 14xxx does not help.

ANTHONY741

A buddy of mine is a cop. He told me that last year a brand new Lexus was stolen that had GPS. Lexus was able to provide the car's location to the owner (they wouldn't relay it to police). The cops then went to the location and the car was therea nd saved within an hour prior to being chopped. How is this possible if the info doesn't feed back- The car didn't have LoJack- just NAVI

Aquineas

Not entirely true bro. SVT knew me when I called them, and told me as much. In fact, I was the first person in Austin to get the famous "hp" fix. They did a test run of fix installs before they rolled it out. I made a post on The Corral with a title of: "Whom do I have to sleep with in order to get on the sample HP fix list?" That night I had a message on my answering machine, telling me that they'd sent my stuff to my dealer and that I needed to make a point of getting it installed. The service manager at the dealership couldn't believe how much attention my little Cobra was getting from corporate, because he had no idea what the 'fix' was until he received it and was told to install it on my car. They knew me from my name and info which I had public in my profile on The Corral.

Sherlock

I find it interesting that a dealer would have the BALLS to deny someone anything and hand them proof from a forum, then at the same time all the dang dealers will say "oh, you heard it on the internet, we don't go by that". Or tell you crap like "don't believe anything you hear on the internet" We all know that some dealers have done that.

They can't have their cake and eat it too. Seems they like to use it to their benefit when and only when it IS to their benefit. Pretty damn cheap to me.

I seem to recall a while back that some guy heard from his acura shop that they were told to dismiss anyone who said "I read on the Internet...." claims.

What a load.. but based on the way I am being treated by Acura, I wouldn't doubt it. Minus the very friendly treatment that J.D. at Ed Voyles Acura is giving me.. he's trying to do what he can within Acura's limits and I'd have to say he's the only one I can't fault for being a dipwad at that company.

Tread

rescueswimmer, listen, you don't have to believe me if you want to stick your head in the sand, but they do know.

They do not know everyone, but if you are causing them some grief, or if you post something they want to have a record of, they will figure it out.

All I can say is trust me, if you don't want to, that is fine , but all I can say is that if they want to figure out who you are, they can. I know this first hand.

As you can see, Aquineas has a similar story.

And if you have been reading this forum long enough, you would have seen one (it is not likely to see a acura person post and admitt they are from Acura) rep post back and forth with his customer he saw that day.

You do the math.

rescueswimmer

Tread, I understand were your coming from. but can you explain to me how the reginal rep knew who you were and printed out your posts. Im just not seeing how he could possible know it was you unless you posted personal information or were corisponding via email using the name tread. Could you enlighten us non believers. Thanks for your time

Tread

It is simple, if you post you picked up the car (now they know delivery date), you indicate your vin range (mine was in the 03xxx range so not too many digits when I posted that), and you indicate what problems you are having (some which are specific to you), which match your service records, plus you say where you are from (I no longer do that), your profile or signature says the colors of your car and any mods, sometimes you complain about your dealer, or recomend them, it is simple, I hope you can see the easily indentifiable pattern here. This was not all in one post mind you, but over a period of time, so you put the puzzle together and it is easy to tell who you are from the factory side (they know your purchase date, they know your problems, your vin, and your purchase location, your color and options, etc), people do not do this on purpose, but a trail is formed.

Wake Up and smell the coffee, it is easy to do if you want to.

I still suffer with my car though.

napalm_RENAMED

If you're right too bad they didn't help poor Mazda RX-8 out! hahaha. Also I believe the Miata was overrated on hp as well at one point.

Tread

Neuronbob,

Here is the thread you are looking for - the interior designer for the TL:

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showt...threadid=63309

pianoman41

If the Lexus had OnStar then this could be done. The navi systems in the 2nd/3rd gen TLs without OnStar are completely passive and cannot transmit anything. They also do not record telemetry data either. In other words, our navi units (without OnStar) are not Big Brother and cannot be used as such.

pianoman41

Unless you are talking about those TLs equipped with OnStar, the navi units do not have any transmitting capabilities--cellular or otherwise.

ANTHONY741

The article said the car had a system "similiar to OnStar" that Lexus customer service used to provide the car's location