Xpditor

James:

I am one of the most obssesive, nit-picky perfectionists around. I sound off when I am not pleased. With my previous, older car- I have been known to run it through the car wash six (6) times because the wheels weren't clean to my liking and I paid extra for wheel cleaning. But, I must report the following:

I took delivery of my TL one week ago. I told the dealer not to touch it but to call me when it came in. I responded to the dealer and got my car with the plastic still on it. I took a lamb's wool mit with me and gave it to the detail man telling him: "hand wash only with this and NO polish". I took the car home and put it in the garage and began to detail it. 9 and 1/2 hours later, I had been all over, under, and through the TL with this result.

It has ZERO defects. It doesn't vibrate or rattle. Everything works. When I thought it didn't, it was because I was doing something wrong or had not read the manual. I have yet to find a blemish, a ding, a paint run, a grease dollup, a nick, a scratch.... NADDA! I couldn't have expected more of a $350,000 Rolls-Royce. It drives like a dream. It is dead silent. It is quick. It smells like a tack shop (leather), and is intuitive and operator friendly. On top of all that, it is a work of art sitting still just to look at it. I say this after polishing the underside of the TL and the inside of the wheels that no one ever sees. It has excellent insurance ratings and gets good gas mileage. It's 0-60 and quarter mile times are a bit better than a 1969 Hemi Road Runner or 440 Magnum. It has six (6) audio sources including one that can't be had on any other automobile including a Rolls-Royce M-B Maybach: DVD-Audio.

Like anything else, when you produce 45,000 of these, they can't all be 100% perfect. But mine is and I needed to tell you all that.

XP

boltjames

Bravo, Mr. President. Bravo.

It's a fantastic car. I've owned so many others.....this one is just special. I take her out every night at about 11:30 to go get a large decaf iced with creme and two Splenda's at the not-so-local Dunkin' Donuts. I park right under my office just so I can stare at her under the window. She handles like a dream, the navi is a life saver, and the XM radio / CD sounds so good I've completely stopped listening to AM/FM.

All in all, it's a phenomenal car. My first lease and it figures that I'll want to keep it, balloon and all

BJ

Acurich

From what I've experienced or read, the problems folks are complaining most about (we'll leave aside scratched rims from hitting the curb) are not failings of assembly, but rather design, materials, or insufficient development testing before Job 1, e.g. airbag retainer clips hitting metal, inadequate adhesive on the headliner retainers, noise from headliner clips, peeling paint, flatspotting tires.

Xpditor

Since there is so much man-made material (read: plastic) in all new cars, I am wondering if many of the rattles or squeak problems might not be attributable to the cold weather in the northern areas. Do two pieces of cold plastic make more noise than warm ones? I suspect that is true. As plastic cools, it becomes less flexible and also shrinks thus changing gaps between parts.

I'm trying to find a reason that my TL doesn't have these noises that others have been plagued with. In order to fully explore this possibility, we should have everyone drive their new TL's to my place in Ft. Lauderdale so that we can test and compare. I'll throw some shrimps on the barbie. You bring the beer.

XP

KeithL

I doubt any car is perfect and forgive us if we are having problems, and maybe if Acura stepped up to the plate we would be happier. They waffled on the tires, and the interior quality sucks, sorry my gf has 2000 Mirage with 77k miles that has less squeaks crekas and buzzes than my TL and they have had it 3 times for 6 days and evry one they quiet another shows up and the original ones come back as well. Acura's answer to me on tires was call the BBB, some concern they have! As for the interior, they said just keep taking it to the dealer. Hmm now thats a thought maybe I'll let the dealer keep it and use his loaner car for a few months then I'll have a 6 month old TL with less than 3k miles on it! I wish I woudl have seen these posts before I bought mine and I would have done more digging and either bought it knowing and shut up, or moved on to something else.

neuronbob

I am of the belief that there are few generalized problems on the TL, and I believe I represent the silent (OK, I am not silent, but anyway...) majority who have minor or no issues with their TL. This is not to minimize anyone who's got an issue--If I had issues, especially like need4spd's and others, I'd want to vent or at least compare. That's one reason the site is interesting and enjoyable--it alerts me as to what to look for on my car.

With that said, I don't believe that a petition is the way to go here. The participation would likely be spotty and Acura is selling so many of these that they frankly don't give a shit what we think anyway. The best approach is to keep calling ACS because that is apparently how Acura judges whether there is a generalized problem with TLs

Oh yeah, to the guy who dissed Ohio.... :thefinger You must be from West Virginia.

cypwood1

I've been thinking of you the last few days. I am so happy that your car is perfect. Maybe later production dates worked to your benefit ? I bet your car was made late March - mid April ? If you get time. Read the e-mail on what really happened with the Juan Coffee caper from 1986. I sent it to you last week. RE: HONDA, they do log in cutomer complaints and respond. I had a minor issue with my 2001 Civic EX ( no gas cap holder at all ) When I bought a 2003 Civic EX for my other son. The gas cap problem was solved. I am sure Acura CS works the same way.

Talk to you soon and enjoy your new toy.

Cypwood,
Don
(AKA: Juan Coffee )

TLGator

I've been leasing for a few years now, always 3 year leases. The first car I leased I thought the same thing as you just said. In fact, as the lease was winding down I thought to myself, damn, I love this car and I've kept it in mint condition, maybe I should just buy it?

But in the end I was lured to another new car, and afterwards I was glad. My attitude is, you only live once and there are lots of cars I want to drive. Truthfully, if I were rich I'd probably lease cars for one year (yes, they have one year leases, and yes, they are outrageously expensive).

So although you feel this way now, bolt, and may even still feel this way towards the end of the lease, when all is said and done and you're driving another (hopefully excellent) new car, if you're like me you'll enjoy the experience of moving on as much as you enjoyed the TL while you had it.

Then again, leasing is financially stupid and you've got kids.

TLGator

No offense, Keith, but IMO this is the sort of statement that I think scares newbies on this forum. YOUR car evidently has interior quality issues, but this statement makes it sound generalized. And that's just not so. My TL's interior is of excellent quality, at least so far. Now, if three months from now I have the drooping headliner AND several rattles AND the leather is messed up somehow, then I might change my tune. But I have no issues so far. I've driven enough cars to know high quality when I see it, and IMO the TL interior is of very high quality - in general.

BrandHdriver

First, it's good to hear from an assembly line worker, and to hear the pride in his comments above.

Second, I for one have a zero defect vehicle to date, if you'll excuse the EL-42's flatspotting when cold. No, I'm not excusing Acura on the EL-42 issue and I'll be shocked if this car is sold with EL-42's in the 2005 model year.

Lastly, if you don't think that American Honda engineers and quality control employees aren't lurking on this website, wake up and smell the coffee!

I've been in Hondas for 20 years, and this car is on par with other Hondas that I've owned. FWIW, the best I've ever owned was a Japanese-made 1994 Accord EX-L. That car never had warranty service.

boltjames

Is it financially stupid? For years, I'd purchased Acura Certified Preowned cars that were 3 years off-lease with about 30k miles on them. Three Legend's and one RL were obtained that way. Problem was, I was putting them on 5 year loans and bailing after being bored in Year 3. Getting crushed on the financing / transferred debt on the previous car.

So to me, as long as I'm within milage and service limits (as with this TL) I'm paying the same thing to drive a brand new car for the same monthly payment. I wasn't seeing any 'residual value income' as I'd never make it to the end of Year 5 anyway.

You are correct.....after having fun with the TL I am most likely going to move to a 5-Series BMW or E Benz unless the new RL is universally acclaimed, in which case, I'll keep the 15+ year Honda/Acura streak alive.

I am dying to try a Euro car, though.

BJ

TLGator

bolt - No question leasing is not quite as stupid as buying and then selling while you're still upside down. What I meant was that leasing is financially "stupid" in general - it's a luxury way of owning a car, which is fine for those of us (including you, evidently) who are willing to pay to be in a new car every 3 years or so. But most of my friends with kids just don't have that kind of dough - they're saving for college, etc. - so they are driving their cars 8-10 years. Keeping them well-maintained, of course. And living their car fantasies vicariously through me.

casooner90

After reading all the posts here, I came up with one thought (hear me out). Most of the TL buyers are people that are probably in mid to upper income range (guess from car price). And, generally speaking, most of are probably overly anal about details. For example, someone buying a hyundai isn't going to bitch about the quality of the interior because 1) they expect the car to be cheap and 2) they don't really care and 3) they probably aren't overly critical about their cars.

So, back on this thought, could some of us be overly critical about the car and that is feeding our emotions towards finding (or searching) every nit picking flaws? For example, the vibration thing for most probably isn't real, but if you hold the steering wheel hard and long enough and you have absolute silence, you'll feel (or imagine to feel) the vibration and therefore the forum was right all along. Therefore, you then become one of the vibration guys and bitch about what poor quality Acura slapped together. This is same as some people making them selves ill by thinking they are ill.

And then there are those others that bitch about the small things (don't like the blue light, the gap in dash is too wide, the rims scratch easily, the tires spin too easily, etc...). These folks could easily be ignored, but just get tired of hearing them.

Finally, I do belive that there are some cars with real problems. This fits in statistical average (I get a good car, some one else must have a bad car), but the percent of those are probably still very small if Acura quality is still in check.

My thought is still the same. The negative reviews of the car, although small in population, is louder in this forum than the positives. This bias unfairly directs the new and potential TL owners into the above categories ("someone mentioned the shake so therefore my car must shake also"). Although humanly impossible, we all need to just have our own unbiased opinions about the car and use this forum to net work the solutions and not turn this into a bitch and moan session. Sorry for the long post and hope there is a point in there somewhere for the readers.

dq1522

Thanks for the vote of confidence for the American assembly line worker. I realize that the problems are design problems too but everyone has to know the first year of a new model change is difficult for every car manufacuturer and it takes a while to get the bugs out. And just a note I am a female.

Xpditor

I see that you are from Marysville. Is it possible you work at Honda/Acura? Maybe your husband or boyfriend? If so, I have some questions I've been wanting to ask:

Are Hondas and Acuras made in the same factory? The same lines? Is there a difference in the quality of assembly between the two? The speed of production?

Are running changes made either to the assembly process or to the "just in time" componant parts and sub-assemblies made by others? IOW, are there mid-year adjustments based on feedback from the field? Changes, say, in an adhesive to anchor the headliner for example? Do the workers sometimes make suggestions which are then implimented to enhance build quality?

Lastly, as to the American assembly line worker: Americans vote with their pocket books and wallets. For some15-20 years, that vote has largely gone to Asia and Europe because of QUALITY issues. I don't think this is reflective of the worker so much as it is the policies of the manufacturer. It took Detroit a long time to understand this and I think they're just starting to get it.

I must admit that if the TL had been made in Japan, I would have been more confident in buying it and probably would have done so 4 months earlier. That attitude is based on my personal experience with Japanese cars vs. American built cars. I consider the TL to be an American car. So I worry about it. To me, it was a big factor and one I had to overcome to make my purchase decision.

XP

BeenersTL

Hmmm....Town Car ?

Xpditor

I forgot to tell you something very important:

My TL is the first car made in any country that I have purchased or othewise acquired new, to be delivered to me without flaw. Nadda. No runs; no hits; no errors.

I find that amazing for a mass produced car with so many components and so many people working on it. I think Acura is nailing Quality Control. I'm sorry for the few people here who are having problems with their TLs.

"I, myself, cannot." -Hannibal Lector

need4spd

xpditor42 , see her first post in this thread for some answers:

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=12

dq1522 - I wish I had as good an experiance as xpditor42 did, however, most of mine were design flaws, but some were assembly and paint.