acuraddict

Tomorrow morning my Turanzas will be gone and replaced by Michelin Pilot Sports, thanks to the combined efforts of the regional rep from Acura and my dealer. I thought it might help some if I shared the steps I took to get this accomplished, and I hope that those of you who wish to get the same results are successful at doing so.

There is, however, one jerk member of this website who calls himself "eneg" who, if I could, I would keep this information from. This guy has been lurking and pestering me for a couple of days, insisting that those of us who share problems with our cars on this website have all been wasting everyone's time by bringing up (or joining in) discussions about things like loss of memory seat settings, tire vibration, loss of radio presets, etc. He insists that using this website to complain about little problems is pointless. What an assanine thing to say. I just wish I could make this guy go away, but I can't, so I'm blocking all of his posts so I don't have to read them anymore.

Contrary to eneg's contention, this website has had a non-trivial impact on Acura's decision making process. Just the fact that over 27,000 times, people have looked at a single "sticky" in the 3rd generation section is proof enough that this website makes a difference, and Acura Customer Service is very aware of the importance of the internet, and particularly this website's impact on consumers.

Anyway, here is a basic recap of what I did to get what I wanted. For those of you that are interested, I hope it helps you to get what you want from Acura.

1. Print out as many comments from this website that document other Acura owners that have problems with the EL42s. One example is jimmyz, who has some comments about his dealer in Murietta GA. They seem to have been one of the first to replace the ELs with Pilots with the help of Acura's rep in that area.

2. Print out the tirerack.com reviews of the EL42s to show how poorly these tires have performed over the last couple of years. Dozens of consumers rate these tires far below the competition and describe hydroplaning, vibration and flat spotting.

3. In addition, the cumulative consumer rating of this tire is approx. 2.8, where practically every other tire in the same price and performance class as the standard models used on the complete line of 2004 TLs have an average rating of approx. 8 (scale of 1-10). Print out this chart as well, and that of a few of the other tires on tirerack as an example of the discrepancy. This helped me to show how Acura really missed the boat by selecting the Turanza EL42 for the 04 TL.

4. Take your service manager for a drive in your car and show him the vibration at 50 mph and 80 mph, and make sure to put the car in neutral to show that the vibration persists when the transmission is not engaged.

5. Talk to the regional rep in your area, and if possible meet with him face to face to discuss your feelings about these tires. The chance to meet with him will help you to gain his support.

6. Write a letter to thank your service manager (and copy it to the GM at the dealership) to thank him for his attention to your problems.

7. Follow-up, be insistant without being pushy, and be patient. It took several weeks for me to get a final answer from my dealer.

8. In my case, I have owned several Acuras and I emphasized that point to the rep and my dealer. If you are a loyal customer, don't forget to emphasize it to everyone involved.

I hope this helps people, and I hope that all of you can take this thread in the spirit in which it is intended: To provide some potentially helpful information to other members of this community of Acura enthusiasts.

Some of you may remember that I posted a thread early in December where I mentioned that Acura was working closely on this problem and would be taking steps very soon. Obviously they are still working on possible solutions, and in the last couple of weeks, other members of this site have shared some of the updates that I have also heard. I still say that I believe Acura will address this vibration issue on a larger scale, but clearly there are at least three different scenarios that exist, so the whole picture is not completely clear yet.

Eneg, go ahead and flame away, but just know that I'm not going to bother unblocking you just to see more of your pointless comments.

rets

First of all, Congratulations. You will receive the new tires. Great efforts & great works.

I guess acur8ly in Maryland, 12/10/03, is the first guy reporting tires changed from the dealer with Michelin Pilot Sport A/S, and yes jimmyz in Atlanta, 12/30/03, is the first with Michelin Pilot Sport.

Thanks for providing your lists as you've promised, it should be very helpful.

need4spd

You will now be in the land of the vibration free - Congrats!

Thanks for all the info and insight, well appreciated!

partagas

Don't for get the jammies, they are the real secret to a smooth ride.

svtmike

To acuraddict's points:

1-3. I don't think my service guys cared one whit what I had to say about other owners experiences. Two of those tire rack reviews are mine. The newer of them includes the word "heinous". Glad it helped!

4. My service consultants and manager never set foot in my car. The second time I got it back, I even asked before picking it up if he had verified it was fixed, and was told yes. It wasn't. When they swapped the tires, the service manager didn't even have a test drive performed. He just handed me my keys and told me to have a good day.

5. I was told by a service consultant before the holidays that he would arrange for me to meet with the regional rep. He disappeared from the dealership between that time and Jan 2. I asked the service manager about such an appointment and was told that there was no such appointment, that there would be no such appointment, and that the other guy was probably "run out" of there for saying things he had no authorization to say.

6. I thought my service manager's performance was very poor. I was treated with complete disrespect. My reasonable requests (like please take it to your sister Audi dealer here in town and balance the tires on their Hunter Roadforce since you don't have one) were written in my service notes and then summarily ignored. He handed out diagnoses from on high without ever driving my car.

7. My service manager's "final answer" was that the vibrations were normal. He even got the regional guy to tell ACS that even though neither of them drove my car. That was before I got the sales guys involved. Then I got a better final answer and a resolution to my specific complaint. Had I not followed up with someone else, I'd have gotten nowhere with the service dept. and ACS.

8. I've got a Honda and an Acura, but these are my first (I had two Fords prior, but there's nothing in their stores that remotely interests me). The service department at my Acura dealer is no better than the local Ford dealer's. Our Honda dealer service department has been top-notch. That's something that really bothers me; the upscale marque should have the better service, but in this case it doesn't.

Mike

youngmic

Why the Michelen's? Why not the Pirelli PZero's? They're rated no. 1 on Tirerack.com.

Also, what about those of us who are not experiencing the vibration but are simply unhappy with the fact that Acura chose such a poorly rated tire? Any suggestions?

svtmike

I've got friends and a brother who have had the Michelins and have nothing but good things to say about them. I've ridden in their cars, and found them to be plenty quiet. That ranks a little higher in my decision-making than the minor difference in ratings on Tire Rack.

I have also had the Pirelli P7000 Supersport (actually had two sets on my previous car) and my only complaint was they got noisy when the tread started to wear. I thought snow traction was better than reported on Tire Rack, and they are reasonably priced, I wanted quieter for my TL though. They also didn't last nearly as long as their 320 treadwear rating suggested they might. I got the same wear out of them as the 220 treadwear rating Eagle GS-C's that were stock on that car. My brother has had Pirellis and found that their tread life was very short as well.

Mike

P.S. I'll add that one of my friends bought the Pilot Sport A/S's based on his impressions of them in use on the cars at the Skip Barber Racing School cars at Road America.

svtmike

Get new tires if you don't like them; I don't think Acura claimed to have put tires on the car that are rated highly on Tire Rack.

If you really don't mind the tires, but only mind what others think of them, then don't worry be happy. They'll wear out eventually and you can put something else on then.

Mike

TZVECL

Acuraaddict:

I assume you are getting the Pilot Sport and not the Pilot Sport A/S is because of your location?

Per tirerack, the price diff is not huge (183 for Sport and 199 for Sport A/S).

COULD you have gotten the A/S if you wanted? Or did the dealer pick for you, giving you no choice?

acuraddict

The regional rep approved the non A/S Pilots and I'm totally fine with that decision. I had Goodyear F-1s on my Type S TL and they were awesom summer tires.

youngmic

Good comments Mike. I'm not so concerned about the opinions of others. My concerns would rate as follows:

1. Safety
2. Noise
3. Cornering and traction performance

Unless I'm missing something, though, I'm not experiencing the vibration issue. So I'll most likely have to wait until the EL42's wear out.

acuraddict

Hydroplaning is pretty bad with the EL42s, so yeah that is a concern.

Tripp11

Nice work, AA!!!! Your persistence and hardwork paid off, that's for sure!

Thanks for your informative posts and hopefully it will help others on this forum!

eneg

I didn't "pester" you at all! What did I write, 2 or 3 notes to you?
To quote a great actor "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"

I never said that problems shouldn't be discussed here. You are just trying to make a point and since you "can't handle the truth," you have to make up your own facts.
I won't repeat what I have already said about posting about ridiculous problems, such as losing radio presets, etc.

Once again, you make statements that make me doubt your credibility.
Such as: "Acura Customer Service is very aware of the importance of the internet, and particularly this website's impact on consumers."

Exactly where do you get your information?
There are maybe, what, 50 people that post REGULARLY on the forum. You think that that will have a big influence on Acura's future decisions?
This website (as much as I like it, BTW) will not have any impact on consumers. NONE! If it influenced 10 people in their purchasing decision, I would be shocked!

Oh, that's right, you won't see this as you have "blocked" my posts. What a shame. . .

Eneg

Linnley

dude...AA is right, customer feedback is a BIG deal!!!! Especially when it comes to a new model. I could go on and on about this topic, but why, if you understand sales and marketing then you will already know. If you dont understand then - like your self - your not going to learn it from me.....too bad, so sad.

PS: I was sooooo close to signing on the dotted line for a base 04 TL .... I waited to checkout the NAVI version, and in waiting read all about the "BUGS" in the 04 TL, I have now decided to wait indefinetly!!!!!!

Thus I know of at least one SALE that ACURA has missed out on.....ME.

CHEERS ALL..................

eneg

"DUDE",

That's your loss!
Go out and spend a couple of bucks and buy the current issue of Comsumer Reports.
You're the one that needs to learn something!

You'd take the advice of some Doe-Doe bird on a web site to stop you from buying a car?
Yup, then I guess I don't understand sales & marketing. . .

Remember, stay away from Acura. Very unreliable car. I read it on a web site!!!

Eneg

VTEC=happiness

I have always prided myself iin never agreeing with anything eneg has to say...however, I will have to make an exception. Though I have grown a bit tired of the constant whining on this site, much of it is potentially helpful for those who are new here...my biggest problem is the repetitiveness that is caused by people not searching and finding out their problem has been discussed. I think that the people on this site have a lot of info to give, but I also agree that I would not decide whether or not to buy a car based on the words of a few people.

As I noted before, congrats to AA for the tire change...I do believe that this tire thing is an important and critical issue that does deserve some discussion. Congrats to eneg for the most sane and balanced commentary I have ever seen him provide

Linnley

Easy turbo.....my point was that the forums that exist are very informative to, "could be" buyers. I am one of them, and yes it is the internet and each person vents there own issues. Some are positive and some are not so positive (also, I do realize some could be made up - not so real etc etc).

Just like the CR review of the 04 TL has its opinion and the C&D has a slightly different opinion. This to me this is the whole deal - its just an OPINION! Mostly, people are good, they dont lie, they relate there own experiences...I find this informative and I think ACURA would to. IE all the sales people I have talked know about this and the VTEC web site.

Thus, I take it all in a make an INFORMED decision. And, for now I will keep my perfect 2000 3.2 TL.

To blanket everyone, on forums like this one, as a "DOE-DOE BIRD" is just crazy talk. Perhaps you have had bad experiences over the internet, I dont know. Lighten up a wee bit.....cheers.

Teh Jatt

thats what i'm going to do... wait till they wear out!

eneg

(Turbo?) First of all, I could never take magazines such as Car & Driver, Road & Track, etc, seriously as they need and accept advertising dollars to stay alive. I have no idea how much Honda/Acura has donated to this cause, but it must be kept in mind while reading their reviews. I don't have that problem with Consumer Reports. While we may disagree with them, I don't doubt their motives.
You want to give me thousands of dollars every year? If you do, I'll gladly change my opinions about everything that AA has to say!
Secondly, you state that all of the sales people that you have spoken to know about this site. How many is that, three or four?
Not very impressive.
Third and most importantly, I HAVE NEVER STATED THAT PEOPLE THAT WRITE ON FORUMS SUCH AS THIS ARE "DOE-DOE BIRDS." I was speaking about one person. Either you are changing things to suit your opinion, or you just misunderstood me. If that's the case, you have my apologies. If it's not the case, then I recind the apology

Eneg