ragin

This is my 3rd MT car. Although my last MT car was a good while ago, I don't recall having this problem.

When WOT you sink back in your seat (esp when VTEC kicks in ) and then you hit the clutch to shift. You predict this and counter the force, but your passengers will not and jerk forward. I find that the faster I shift the less they will jerk forward. The problem with this is the RPMs haven't dropped when shifting so fast. The shift isn't as good when the RPMs aren't matched and there's going to be more wear and tear.

I guess I'm looking for tips and pointers. But l really don't recall having this problem with my 5.0 Mustang or 240 SX as the RPMs dropped fast. I'm guessing drive by wire is playing a factor?

HiTEC

I don't know... I think you just need to get used to it. I've been driving manual since I was 16 and many cars over the years (I always buy manual trannys), and I find the TL one of the hardest cars to drive smoothly.

Mylriahd

Definitely the hardest manual I've ever driven. When driving hard, theres no way around it that I've found. But when I'm driving my in-laws around... no problems there, because I drive it pretty sterile. Not fun, but no neck problems.

SouthernBoy

Our clutch actuating system (hydraulic) has a built in "feature" to protect it and rest of the down stream drive train from the shock which results from "aggressive" shifting. In other words, when you shift very fast, it will slightly delay full engagement commensurate with your shifting action as a cautionary guard to the other components. Of course, this can and will increase clutch wear.

Now I have to say, I have not experience this when I turn my VSA off, though I don't think there is a connection between the VSA and the hydraulic clutch system. Anyway, with my VSA off, my '04 manual TL will break traction when aggressively shifting, up to and including 3rd gear. First gear is all wheel spin.

SouthernBoy

Oh, and by first gear being all wheel spin, I don't just mean at launch. If I launch for traction the nail the throttle once I have full engagement, it breaks traction as long as I stay on the throttle up past 6000 RPM.

yohan81718

question (no mean to hijack your thread)

when wheel spins at full throttle, instead of the tire screeching (trying to get a grip), it kinda bounces on the ground...
anyone know why this happens?

Adobeman

.Yeah, I think its the clutch damping device (CDD) too.

As far as VSA is concerned I agree about no connection to the clutch components. My "working theory" is that it senses the onset of slip and dials back the throttle a bit. That combined with the CDD and you probably notice it. With VSA off I theorize the throttle is not compensated by the car's electronics.

+ I usually find that anything annoying is quickly far behind in the rear view mirrors without even needing to speed shift at WOT.

Adobeman

Not sure why but every FWD car I've had did it.

kobi2002

If I understand you that is called wheel hop and not a good thing for your axles. Are you in a turn when doing this. I know when i had my integra it did it to me and found out the the suspension needed to be more stiff. got tiens and never did it agian.

TL CHROMETIDE

This always happens when I try spin the wheels too. I rev it, drop the clutch, and the front just starts shaking and bouncing like crazy. I just thought I was a bad driver but can anyone help us out?

ragin

I think a suspension upgrade might be my answer too. Less head banging by my passengers while I'm working the gears.

Eoanou

That's known as "wheel-hop" just about every FWD does this, I know the Volkswagen Jettas and Golfs had a problem with this and same with the SRT-4s. Any front wheel drive car with a good amount of torque will experience this, and if you are in reverse going up hill, you may experience this in a RWD car as well, it actually happened to a friend of mine. Its just the torque causes the wheels to lift a bit when you are giving it full throttle, it doesn't mean your car is broken or damaged it's natural for high torque FWD cars, but you should avoid doing it, its not very good for your car.

As far as possible remedies, I think some suspension work can help, but I'm not to sure on this. Of course not flooring it off the line helps too.

SouthernBoy

With RWD cars, it's caused by "spring windup". This is one of the main reasons to use traction bars for RWD when drag racing. With a FWD car, it would be the same thing, though a tradition traction bar setup is not going to work with FWD of course. However, I would bet that there are after-market products out there for FWD cars setup up for drag racing that eliminate this problem.

6spMike

I think ragin's question was misunderstood.
He's asking why it takes so long for the rpms to drop when you push in the clutch and let off the gas.
I agree that it longer in the TL than any other manual car I have driven.
I'm guessing it has something to do with drive-by-wire, and maybe something to do ULEV II, too.
I found that it helps a little (but not much) if you let off the gas a split second before pushing in the clutch.
The only way I've found to be smooth in the TL is just.............................wait.
It's kinda disappointing that you can't drive it 'sporty' and smooth at the same time.
Mike

SouthernBoy

Mine never causes me any concerns. Granted, the RPMs do not fall as fast as, say my '88 Mustang LX 302CID, but it poses no problems at all for me.

Yes, the slower fall off would be due to emissions, as in serving as a aid to burn off residual fuel pudding in the intake manifold.

03sixer

Don't believe it has anything to do with ULEV or DBW. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the reason for the RPMs staying up between shifts is the Dual Mass Flywheel. The Dual Mass Flywheel is in place to dampen vibrations between the Engine and tranny that are normally felt on sports cars. It is essentially, two flywheels bound together, with some sort of dampening in between. I would assume the additional weight is what keeps the RPMs up. Ours, being a Lux coupe, seem to have that dampened. I know that my friend's 03 NSX acted in a similar manner.

ragin

Well we can rule out ULEV or all other common components by answering this question:

How fast do the RPMs drop on the auto? Maybe because of the torque converter and just the nature of the tranny we can't make this comparison.

My 03 TL-S RPMs seemed to drop fast.

6spMike

I'm thinking it wouldn't be apples to apples, because the nature of the auto's torque converter and clutch pack allows it to force the RPMs down while minimizing jerking. Although you still get a jerk when the auto shifts.

Not sure about the dual mass flywheel. From another post, 'dual mass' apparently refers to the flywheel being 2 pieces, with rubber between them to damp vibrations. It doesn't necessarily have to have more rotational inertia than a one-piece flywheel.
Choosing flywheel mass (actually rotational inertia) is a trade between ease of 1st gear starts and acceleration. A heavier flywheel means easier starts, because you can use some of the stored energy in the rotating flywheel to get the car started. But, the heavier flywheel takes more power to increase it's speed, so you lose in acceleration.
If the outer piece of the flywheel is really heavy, that could be it.

The RPMs come down slowly enough that I'm guessing the throttle butterfly is not closing completely for whatever reason when we let off the gas.

Anybody have a 6mt that doesn't seem different in this regard than other manuals?

Mike

Rpappi

suspension upgrade will help
and also an engine damper. kinda like the damper for your suspension but keeps your engine from bouncing. when you get wheel hop your engine also shakes and installing an engine dampner would keep your engine from doing it as much. your tires would spin more and bounce less.

onsknth

It is called wheel-hop as many have already mentioned.

BUT, nobody has provided the correct answer as to how to remedy the situation.

The reason why a spring kit limits or "eliminates" wheel-hop is because it limits weight transfer which is the primary cause of wheel-hop.

Someone was close using the FWD vs RWD and going forwards or backwards, a RWD car will wheel-hop in reverse because all the weight of the car is transfered to the front... Just the opposite is true for a FWD car, it will not wheel-hop in reverse.

Ever see them drag races with Honda Civics and wonder why they're running wheelie bars on front wheel drive cars?

Well, now you know.

meowCat

The real good manual drivers don't make jerk forward.

You want to keep the RPM up when you shift, keeps the car accelerate steady. You should be glad that the Acura TL RPMs drop slowly. That's a momentum, baby. Keep that momentum up. I just beat the crap out of a Lexus tonight. My car is so fast it's not even funny.. God I love it. My driving skill is near perfect. meow? meow?

kobi2002

I think i mentioned a stiffer suspension does the trick. I had a 400+whp integra that did it before i got tiens. problem went away.

PoochaKannInc

At least you aren't full of yourself.

ml3456

I agree that the Acura clutch is also one of the worst I have ever driven.

I am wondering if getting some additional low end torque by adding a CAI and a standard size aluminum pulley may help this without a dramatic mileage impact. Thougts?

ML

SouthernBoy

How is it bad? Granted, it's not up to the standards of a mid-60's American supercar, but then again, few are. For most purposes, it is a fine unit.

As for the mods you asked about increasing torque, yes to a small degree.

Kostyan

if you're saying that TL's's 6spd is one of the hardest to drive, try out '00 Nissan Maxima in 5spd that I had. I am actually enjoying TLs 6spd.

Ragin- to answer your question, every car will jerk if you're going to upshift at WOT, and this is not a problem with the car but the driver. Slow down especially when you have passengers in the car.

TL's drive-by-wire makes it much easier for a smooth downshifting. When you blip the throttle, the RPM's will stay on for a bit, allowing for shifting time, it is a very nice feat.