Some days I shift really well, other days its like I have never driven my 6MT before. Sometimes it is really frustrating. Some days my downshifts are like silk while other days its like I have never dowshifted before. Just venting. I know that it takes alot of practice to really drive an MT well and it is a skill and an art. Sometimes I just find it is really tought to match the revs on a downshift, but just then, I'll downshift without really thinking about it and it is smooth as silk with good rev-matching.

 

you'll get better. Try to work on downshifting and maintaining the car at a constant speed without any jerkiness. When you've got it right its like you never shifted.

 

the 6MT is kinda different than other manual trannies i have driven but its not that hard to get use to. i think with auto-match upshift shifting is super smooth. downshifting is pretty easy as well i just blip the throttle a bit and release the clutch.

 

It took awhile and yes- practice - but I have pretty much conquered the 6MT. Only if my mind is on something else and the radio is loud do I occasionally have a problem. (I find that not hearing the engine causes most of my difficulties.)
Because of some comments from my wife before I bought the TL like "please don't get a manual shift car- they are so jerky", I have made an extra effort to develop smooth shifting techniques. Now that I have gotten the car, she has not made any more comments. Nobody said that a manual would be as easy as an automatic.

 

Sometimes I find that i don't get the rev match close enough. Sometimes I don't balance the clutch and throttle evenly enought. I try not to look at the tachy when I'm downshifting. I've been varying the point at which I blip (i.e.: before moving through neutral, after moving through neutral). What do you do for smooth downshifts.

 

Yes, the "auto-match" upshift does make it smooth. But when I down shift I find it hard sometimes to not over-blip or under-blip. But sometimes I hit it right on. Do you look at the tachy when you down shift ?

 

I do really enjoy the challenge of the MT and when I'm operating it well, it is awsome. In fact, when I get into an automatic now, I fell like I don't have control of the car. What is your technique for smooth down shifts?

 

How bad do you guys think buying a 6MT would be for someone that's never driven a manual before? I'd like to learn, but there is no one to teach me, and I figure this way I'd learn fastest. Is there anything a newb could REALLY screw up?

 

You could shift from say, 5th to 2nd and overrev the engine! Most people are careful enough not to do that though, even newbs. There isn't really anything worse you can do. I drove manual for 6 years, and the biggest problem I encountered was stalling in first in the winter when the engine was cold. Probably the hardest thing to do is to get going in first...I always give it a little gas to get going. Once you figure that out, downshifting is the next hardest thing. Upshifting is a breeze. Some tips for maintaining your manual:

1. Don't ride the clutch. Once your shifting is over, release the clutch fully. If you're in slow traffic, you can partially release it and then press it back in all the way to move a little bit while staying in 1st gear.

2. Don't grind the gears. Make sure the clutch pedal is fully depressed before changing gears.

3. Don't let gears slip. Make sure the gear is all the way in before releasing the clutch.

4. The closer to the 'recommended point' that you shift, the less work the synchros have to do, which will make them last longer. (not 100% sure on this one, but it's what I've seen so far. Anyone correct me if I'm incorrect.)
That's about all I can think of for now. Good luck with the 6MT! Manuals are MUCH more fun to drive! Sadly I settled for auto because 1st gen TL's never came in manual, and I was too poor to afford a 6MT CL-S or an '04 TL.

 

If you can possibly use something with fewer gears and less power for practice (say, an old 4/5-speed Corolla), do so, so long as the clutch is in decent shape. You can probably teach yourself gearshifting, but like other activities that require tactile finesse, it's better to have a sympathetic teacher. You could, in theory, REALLY screw up the clutch, or even chip a gear or two, but that's not likely if you just push the clutch back in if the car starts bucking or making ugly noises.

 

I wonder if there are any driving schools that will teach how to drive manuals. My roomie bought a WRX and learned to drive manual on that. I don't think I know anyone with an old manual though, only friends iwth a WRX or a 330i. Maybe I should buy a wheel and practice on Gran Turismo 3

 

I wish I bought mine in 6MT . Oh well.

 

I have posted this several times already but here goes again. Please note that it is a collage of writings I did on another gearhead website.

Hope this helps and you are encouraged to request clarification if needed.


================================================== ============



Note: As it says, this is a collage of various postings I have made over the past one and a half years on the altimas.net website. So you are likely to see redundancy as well as a few other items of disarray. But enjoy and I hope you learn something.




PROPER MANUAL TRANSMISSION DRIVING TECHNIQUES

What follows is a collection of writings which I have posted at various times on this website in an effort to help answer some questions regarding the proper manner in which a manual transmission should be operated. While there are certainly many ways to drive a car with a manual transmission, there is really only one correct way. I was most fortunate to have learned these techniques while I was still in my teenage years. In so doing, I was able to avoid developing entrenched habits before they became really bad habits and difficult to correct. It is my hope that this helps you learn what I have learned and perfected over the years. If you do, you will reap the rewards, both financial and in the knowledge that you have mastered a technique that few do in their lifetimes. Have fun!

Under normal driving situations (not racing), when you start out from a standing start, you do so with the lowest possible RPMs, get the clutch out to full engagement as soon as you can while adding throttle. If you do this correctly, the transition will be smooth and seamless, and the wear on your clutch disk, pressure plate, release bearing, and flywheel will be minimized.

If properly designed (sufficient size and clamping pressure, etc.), and properly installed with no defects (correct torque, non-faulty equipment, alignment, etc.), then the next, and most important, factor to the life of the clutch assembly is the operator.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHY A CLUTCH CANNOT LAST THE LIFE OF THE ENGINE UNDER NORMAL DRIVING CONDITIONS.

When I speak of engine life here, I am referring to life before a serious teardown or part replacement such as a timing chain (200,000+ miles) or headwork. If you cannot get at least 100,000 miles out of a clutch, you are doing something terribly wrong. Obviously, racing and other extreme conditions such as towing constitute a whole different approach and, as such, do not come under this.


Don'ts:

Do not use any more engine speed (RPMs) than absolutely necessary to get the car rolling in first gear.

Do not hold the car on a hill with the clutch.

Do not wait for a traffic light to turn green with the transmission in gear and the clutch depressed.

Do not rest your foot on the clutch while driving.


Do not ride the clutch in any gear (obviously you will to a small degree in first to start off).

Do not down shift by just removing your foot from the gas, moving the shifter into a lower gear, then releasing the clutch slowly.


Do's

Start off smoothly and with low engine speed, and shift in such a manner that if you had a passenger on board, they would not even notice the shifts.

Hold the car on hills with the brakes.. that's what brakes are for. NEVER hold a car on a hill with the clutch. The amount of heat generated by doing this is incredible.

While waiting for a light to change or while sitting in heavy traffic, put the transmission in neutral and get your foot completely off of the clutch petal. Leaving it in gear for extended periods heats up and shortens the life of the release bearing. The normal condition of a clutch is fully engaged so it stands to reason that's where it should be most of the time.

Resting your foot on the clutch petal while driving engages the release bearing.. see above.

Avoid riding the clutch as much as is humanly possible. You will extend its life significantly.

If you do not know how to properly downshift, DON’T. Use the brakes (should do this anyway), and avoid downshifting any more than necessary. Improper downshifting is analogous to riding the clutch because that is what you are actually doing. Learn how to properly downshift first and save yourself the frustration of premature clutch failure.

Clutches are wear items, heavily affected by heat caused by friction. In a front wheel drive car, they are costly to replace, so unless you like shelling out a lot of money periodically for the replacement of these components, learn the correct way. Learn it until it becomes second nature like breathing.



I spent some time teaching a lady with whom I worked 10 years ago these techniques when she purchased a new '92 Honda Accord LX. When I last spoke with her, she had well over 140,000 miles on the original clutch with no signs of slippage. So I'm not jerking anyone's chain here. Learn to operate a manual transmission correctly and you will reap the rewards by saving a lot of money. Plus you will be one of the few who know how to do this right.

I don't mean to set myself up here as some kind of guru because I am not. But I have been driving vehicles with manual transmissions for over 40 years. I have spent the time to perfect the process into an art form because when done correctly, that’s what it is. When I sold my '88 Mustang LX 302CID, it was 6 years old and had 77,000 miles on it. When the buyer drove it, he asked me when I replaced the clutch because to him, it felt very positive. I told him that I had never replaced it and that it was the original unit. I added that it wouldn't make any sense to replace a clutch after only 77,000 miles since that is not very much wear. He had a little bit of a hard time believing this, but he did buy the car. Three months later, he called me up to let me know how much he liked the car and to tell me had had not wrapped it around a tree. He again asked about the clutch and I again told him that it was the original clutch.

I used to own a 1966 Chevelle SS396/360HP. I was the original owner of the car. For a period of about 2 years, I was street racing the car frequently on the weekends. At 83,000 miles when I sold it, it would still break traction in all four gears and the clutch had no slippage. It was tight and strong. Now granted, American cars have traditionally had stronger clutches than Japanese cars. This is changing because the Japanese are putting larger and stronger (torque) engines in their cars.



Downshifting

Ah yes, downshifting. If I had to name just one facet of manual transmission errors-of-operation, this would probably be it.

To understand how to operate a manual transmission, you have to know how the clutch assembly and transmission work, and I am going to take the assumption that most do on this forum. I will only clarify synchronizers. They serve to match the speed of the gears in the transmission as the shifter is moved to a given gear. Now for downshifting.

Let's say you are in fourth gear and you are approaching a stop sign, so you decide to downshift from fourth gear into third. What most people do is just remove their foot from the throttle, depress the clutch while moving the shifter from fourth to third, then start releasing the clutch slowly until they achieve full engagement. If you do this, what you are actually doing is riding the clutch in third gear. After all, the engine has returned to idle (or close to it), you get into third, then just ease the clutch out which pulls the engine from idle up to the RPM's at which it will operate at whatever speed you are traveling in third gear. Here is the correct way to do this in steps that I will break down in a moment.

Raise your foot off of the throttle.

Depress the clutch.

Start the shifter up into third.

As you pass through the neutral gate, let the clutch out a bit (doesn't have to be all the way) while at the same time blipping the throttle to increase engine speed BEYOND that which it will operate in the chosen lower gear.

Depress the clutch again.

Engage the chosen lower gear.

Let the clutch out while adding throttle.

As the engine RPM's decrease they will be met by the engaging clutch and opening throttle.

This should be a simple, smooth, fluid motion and you will know you've done it right if there is no jerking as the clutch comes out in the last step. Now for some details.

As you move into the neutral gate with your foot off of the throttle, the engine RPM's will be returning to idle. This is the point at which you want to blip the throttle a bit while at the same time engaging the clutch some. You want to get the engine turning faster than it will when you are in the lower gear you have chosen. The reason is that you want to spin the gears up to a speed that equals that at which they will be operating when you finally release the clutch in your downshift. If you do this right, there is no clutch slippage because the engine and the gears in the transmission will be spinning at the same or nearly the same RPM's. No slippage means you will get into gear with full engagement of the clutch sooner and with virtually no wear. To best understand this, you really need to know how a clutch assembly and transmission work together to deliver power from the engine to the drive wheels.

This takes a lot of practice, but if you get it down, you will be heads and shoulders above just about anyone else who drives a car with a manual transmission. You will begin to notice the mistakes other are making when they drive. Learn from their mistakes and it will both save you money and make you a far better driver.

So it's in with the clutch, start the shifter into the chosen lower gear, while passing through the neutral gate, blip the throttle and at the same time engage the clutch a bit to spin up the gears, then back in with the clutch as you get into the chosen gear, then finally release the clutch in one smooth operation.

Here's another little tip. Say you are waiting at a light for the green and your transmission is in neutral like it should be with your foot completely off of the clutch petal. When the light turns green, instead of just depressing the clutch and pushing the shifter up into first, pull the shifter partially into a higher gear first, such as second or third. The gears in those selections are not spinning as fast as the gears in first. By starting the shifter into a higher gear before you go to into first gear, you will cause less wear on the synchronizers and they will last far longer because they do not have to stop gears which are spinning at a higher speed. For cars which do not have synchronized reverse, definitely do this and you will not experience the grinding affect when shifting into reverse.

Say you are driving normally, shifting up through the gears to the one in which you wish to be for cruising. As you disengage the clutch and move the shifter to the next higher gear, you might notice a slight resistance just before you finish the shift. What you feel is the synchronizer for that gear forcing the drive gear(s) from the input shaft and the gears selected to "mesh". That is to say, their speeds are forced to equalize so that as they engage, there is no grinding and no damage to the gear teeth. That said, we can move to double clutching.

Double clutching was a technique that came about when earlier manual transmissions did not have synchronizers. If you did not double clutch, you would experience some serious gear grinding when shifting.

If you did not have synchronizers in your transmission, you would have had two choices when shifting gears: (1) put up with some really serious grinding and damage/breakage to gear teeth, or (2) manually match the speed of the gears in each selected shift so that you would eliminate the problems just mentioned in #1.

Suppose you are traveling in second gear, the engine is turning at 2500 RPM, and you are getting ready to shift to third. At the road speed you are going, let's say that once in third, your engine would be turning at 1800 RPM. When you remove your foot from the gas, the engine is going to loose RPMs quickly and by the time you get into third, the engine might only be turning 1200 RPM. Without synchronizers, you would need to raise the engine back up to 1800 RPM in order for the gears to mesh. By blipping the throttle and at the same time letting the clutch out some when you are passing through the neutral gate, you will both increase engine RPM and increase gear speed. As the engine RPMs fall back off, they will reach a point at which you will be able to complete the shift.

Since for years, manual transmissions have been fully synchronized, there is no need whatsoever to double clutch when upshifting and I definitely recommend against this practice.

Now downshifting is much like this, only in reverse. In other words, you are going from a higher gear to a lower gear so if your engine was turning at 2500 RPM and you wanted to shift to second, You would want to blip the throttle enough to raise engine speed to perhaps around 3200 - 3500 RPM.

When you are upshifting, the RPMs fall off and most people find it pretty easy to adjust to this and to add throttle at the right time so that when the clutch comes back out, they have the proper RPM's for the gear selection/road speed.

However, most people downshift by (1) removing their foot from the throttle, (2) moving the shifter into the next lower (or chosen) gear, then (3) slowly releasing the clutch while adding little or no throttle. This is NOT the proper manner in which to downshift. What you are doing in effect, is riding the clutch in reverse. In other words, you probably wouldn't dare attempt to start your car off in third gear because you would have to add a lot of throttle and really slip the clutch to get the car moving. When you downshift like the example I just gave, you are doing something similar to starting off in a higher gear, though it does take more energy to get a car moving from a dead start. Now if you double clutch during the downshift, you are spinning up the gears and the transition to the next gear will be quite smooth.


Junkyard asked a question about the concept of “passing through the neutral gate”. You don’t stop or stay in neutral. You are just passing through, so to speak. In your second question, you said I had mentioned to put the car in neutral when downshifting. Not exactly. Try this with the engine off.

Put the car in fourth. Depress the clutch and shift to third and let the clutch out. Now do the same thing, only this time as you pass through the neutral gate, let the clutch out some or a good deal and blip the throttle, then clutch back in, get into third, clutch comes out for the final time. That is the movement you want.

Incidentally, blipping the throttle is just a little stab at the petal, enough to raise RPMs to the desired level. You do not want to be on the throttle long because you will be in the process of shifting. Yes, this does take a lot of practice and may not come easily for many, but it is the best way, in fact the only proper way, to downshift because it very significantly reduces clutch and synchronizer wear (especially clutch), and once you get the hang of it, you will be able to do it quite fast.

The bottom line to all of this folks is to match engine speed to wheel speed in a given gear, and to do it in such a manner as to eliminate undue trauma to your drive train. I do this all of the time and have been downshifting like this since my late teens. I actually learned it from a magazine article (as I can best recall). If you know how a manual transmission and clutch assembly operate, all of the components and how they perform together, you will understand the beauty of the process.

Oh the grinding noise Junkyard hears when he starts letting up the clutch too quickly is most likely due to not having fully engaged the gear teeth and they separate (pop out of gear). That or he actually begins engaging the gear teeth before the clutch is fully depress so there is still some flywheel/disk/pressure plate contact.


One of the things I noticed right off the bat on my SE was that the clutch began to engage much too close to the floor for me (a contributor to the problem Junkyard has had). It was starting to engage about 1 inch from the floor, so I adjusted it out to 2 inches and it is fine. If you do this, just make sure you have the required toeplay, otherwise you will prematurely wear out your release bearing.

The purpose of letting the clutch out some as you pass through the neutral gate is to spin the gears up in preparation for the speed at which they must be at for the lower gear selection. This will allow you to get into that gear very easily. When you depress the clutch, you disengage the crankshaft from the transmission. The gears in the transmission will begin to slow down. By letting out the clutch some (or completely) in the neutral gate, you once again, MOMENTARILY, engage the full drive train and get the gears spinning. Only this time since you have blipped the throttle, they'll be spinning faster. As they slow down from the higher speed, your clutch will be coming out for the final time with the transmission in gear and the mesh will be smooth.

Try it both ways. Do it first the way you do it and notice that you have to add a little bit of force to get the shifter into gear. That's because the synchronizers are doing their job of gear speed meshing. Now try it the way I outlined and if you do it right, you will have virtually no resistance as you slip the shifter into your chosen gear.

Instead of going right into first as the light starts to go green, try starting the shifter into second gear.. don't have to go all the way into gear, though it won't hurt. This slows the gears down just as though you had gone on into first, but it's much easier on the synchronizers. And you won't get the "crunch" you mentioned when you have to move quickly.


To prevent rollback; practice, practice, practice, practice.

One way to do this is to find a nice little hill someplace where you won't be a bother to anyone. Take along some masking tape and mark off two sections with the tape a foot apart. Your goal is to keep the car from coasting back more than 1 foot.. of course you do not use the clutch to hold the car.. use the brakes. As you learn to do this, find another hill a little steeper. And so on, and so on.

 

It all sounds so complicated :P

 

I understand how MTs work and I have absolutely improved over the past few months (prior to that, 9 years ago I drove a fiat 5 speed). All I'm saying is that I'm finding it tought to get 100% of my downshifts with absolutely no lurch or buck (to much blip...or...not enough blip).

I mean, everyone says that you should not even feel the downshift. I'd say about 2/3 of the time that is how I downshift but that 1/3 is still not there. Maybe that is a good average...I don't know.

By the way, how often do you downshift and when?

 

I just test drove a TL 6MT over the weekend and came away with a few impressions...

1. Awesome car
2. Most difficult clutch to modulate when taking off.

I have to say, I've been driving an 89 Integra 5 speed for 9 years now (my first car in high school, so I basically learned on it) and have put over 150,000 miles on it. In addition, I have test driven many new cars with manuals, as well as driving friends manual transmissioned cars. The TL made me feel like I was learning a clutch all over again.. I was embarrased by how bad. The clutch either picked up too fast, or I would end up slipping too much to overcompensate.

I'm sure that over time I would learn it, but it shouldn't take this much effort.. Perhaps it was the fact that engagement height was too high, or that the clutch hadn't been broken in yet, but still. Perhaps I'm just spoiled by my Centerforce clutch.

As far as up and down shifting once underway, typical Honda precision.. I was quite able to make imperceptible shifts..

 

OK...What is your downshift technique for imperceptible downshifts.....take me throught the steps please. How do you get the 1000-1200 blip right each time (for one gear downshifts) each time? Do you watch the tach? Is it balancing the throttle/clutch?

Thanks.

 

SouthernBoy. I have read your post before and it was really helpful to me...especially in understanding how MTs work. But how do you get an accurate "blip" each time on the downshift? How do you modulate it?

 

Here's a good article on the subject of MT shifting techniques, especially down-shifting:

http://www.318ti.org/notebook/shifting/

 

seamg, I can't say I am a master a downshifting, but I do have one "rule" that I tend to follow. It is "when possible use your brakes rather than your clutch and gearbox." First off it is much cheaper to replace brakes (even Brembos) than clutch and transmission components.
If you are coming to a stop, leave it in the current gear until the rpms are near idle and then push in the clutch as you stop. If you are just slowing down and need to be in a lower gear, I brake or coast until I am ready for the lower gear (it may be 2 or 3 gears lower than the gear I am in) then shift to the desired lower gear engaging the clutch slowly. Sometimes I apply a little throttle to rpm match, but often the rpms are already close. The most difficult downshift is when you want the car in a high rpm window to accerate or pass. Here the rpm matching is important. It is also the time when it is hard to shift smoothly. Good luck.
lakeman

FYI- I am an old guy who has been through many manual shift cars (64 beetle,68 &,71 Fiat, 82civic, 84jetta, 86Audi 5000, 90crx and 88Porsche) and have never had to replace a clutch. Second I tend to drive cars easy with respect to the drive train- only using the 270 ponies when necessary, but I do tend to drive them hard in cornering - whenever I get the chance.

 

yeah i do sneak a peak at that dash from time to time but its gotten alot easier and i don't need to look as much. when its a 1 gear downshift its a slight "blip" and i am use to that. its the multiple gear downshifts that get a little tricky and i have to look at the tach. southernboy's post is very informative and if you practice it you'll get use to it and it won't be so difficult.

 

Unfortunately, at least in Ontario, a driver must maintain control of his vehicle at all times while in traffic. That means that 'neutral coasting' or taking the automobile out of gear at an intersection is actually against the law. The car must remain in gear at all times, with the exception of shifting.

Wierd rule, but you could actually be ticketed for sitting at a red light with the car in nuetral.

 

Very interesting. I think that "coasting in neutral" can be dangerous, because you cannot immediately react to a situation (except for brake), so I can see that point. But its illegal to be at a light, applying the brakes, but with the tranny in neutral? Very strange.

 

Yeah, I am going to research that again, maybe I misinterpretted the rules of the road. Then again it has been 22 years since I really studied them, so maybe the rules have changed, lol.

 

And how would the Mountie know what gear you are in? By sneaking up and peeking in your window? Being in neutral while the car is coasting is one thing; being in neutral while the car is stationary is another. What if you're parked at the curb but have the engine running and the transmission in neutral? Still illegal?

 

SouthernBoy,
Excellent information.

For those thinking about driving a manual, it is not that hard, just different from the norm (if you drive AT). Do try to learn on something else other than a new TL. I have been driving manuals since I was 17, and when I test drove the TL, it was a little different then what I expected. I have been driving a Honda Accord EX Cp 5sp for twelve years, same clutch, about 110,000 miles. Usually once you learn how to drive a MT, you will not want to touch an AT again.

 

Once you get experienced driving a MT, the tachometer will become unnecessary. Your engine will tell you when you need to shift.

 

makes perfect sense i wouldn't want to be out of gear for too long a period.

 

To seamg;

I downshift if and when needed which is reasonably frequently. I do not downshift to be cool or to signify. For example, when approaching a stop sign or stop light, I just use the brakes most always.

As for your questions, "But how do you get an accurate "blip" each time on the downshift? How do you modulate it?", it's a matter of getting a "feel" for your particular car... which involves engine sound and using the tach to learn the engine speed differences between the various gears. Say there is a 400 RPM difference between 2nd and 3rd. That's going to be a constant so if you are turning 1800 in 3rd gear and you want to shift to 2nd, you know you're going to need to have the engine turning 2200 RPM when the clutch comes out the final time in your chosen lower gear.


To William_B;

I never proposed neutral coasting. I would not do this myself for the same reasons you mentioned.. if the need arises to react quickly, I want engine power being delivered to the drive wheels at all times. I just meant when waiting for a stop light or while sitting at a stop sign waiting for traffic to clear. If Canada has a law on the books which says you must always have the car in gear, well guess what? I would violate that law every time simply because my car is more important than a law that makes no sense. Also, with a manual you would have to have your clutch fully disengaged which is much like having it in neutral with the clutch engaged. Hey, who knows more? A bunch of legislative lawyers or automotive engineers and gearheads?

But all legislative bodies do dumb things. Here in Virginia, we have a seat belt law. Really dumb. Now don't get me wrong, I would never dream of taking my car out of my garage without wearing a seat belt. I just do not like the government acting like a nannie. They don't belong on my property, in my house, or in my car. Personal thing.. it's called being an American.

 

I usually double clutch when I downshift and I'm usually 90% on the spot, but I was wondering if I'm just wasting my time double clutching and should just rev match instead.

 

I am going to assume that you use of the term "double clutching' is the normally understood meaning which is blipping the throttle while at the same time letting the clutch out a bit as you pass through the neutral gate in order to spin up the drive gears. If this is your understanding of double clutching, then the answer to your question is "No, you are not at all wasting your time by doing this".

Quite the contrary. You are doing your synchronizers a real favor with this action. Reve-match without "double clutching" only increases engine speed because you have disengage the clutch for the shift. The speed of the drive gears is falling off because they are not connected to the engine via the clutch assembly. This means that when your movement of the shifter gets to the point where the synchronizer friction surfaces are in contact, their difference in speed is much greater than if you had double clutched for your shift.

Personally, I find my '04 TL to be one of the easiest and best cars I've owned for this whol process.

 

Boy did I make some typos on that response. Sorry.

Operating a manual transmission correctly can result in huge rewards to the driver. Not only in terms of money and time saved, but also in the knowledge that you are among a select few who really know how to do this the right way.

The highest mileage I have read about for a clutch was in an Integra. As I recall, the owner had a 60 mile commute (each way) to work, and I believe it was in Detroit. At the time he wrote about this, he had 315,000 miles on his original clutch and it was still doing fine. He described the methods he used which proved to me that he knew what he was doing. I would not be surprised if that car was able to see the 400,000 mile mark on its virgin clutch.

 

When I meant by double clutching is when I let out the clutch fully but I heard somewhere that rev-matching is where you dont fully let off the clutch. So..yea I'm not too sure.

 

You're correct.. they are not the same thing. You do not need to double clutch when rev-matching, but you must rev-match to double clutch. When rev-matching, you don't engage the clutch at all during the throttle blip and neutral gate pass through.

 

Thanks for your help Southernboy!

 

You're welcome, however I just reread your post and I missed something that you asked.

You had stated that "rev-matching is where you dont fully let off the clutch". Just so I don't mislead you or others, when rev-matching you don't engage the clutch at all during the shift. In other words, you fully depress (disengage) the clutch then blip the throttle, then complete the shift, and finally release the clutch.

When double clutching, you DO release (engage) the clutch partially or completely WHILE blipping the throttle and passing through the neutral gate, before completing the shift.

Hope this is more clear.

 

For those of you who have not read this article, it was posted on page 1 of this thread by 1violinist as post #19 on 8/26/2004. It is a good articleand talks about many of the things we have discussed and that I also posted on page 1. He makes a few generalizations, as do we all from time to time, and there are one or two items with which I would take exception. But he does a decent job of explaining things.

Those items which I disagree with relate to downshifting without at least rev-matching (of course, I recommend double clutching). He says this is OK and I definitely disagree with this. Another is speed shifting when drag racing. He doesn't elaborate on this, as in defining what speed shifting is to him, so I will just have to assume it's the actual definition which is: normal shifting performed very fast, without removing your foot from the throttle. A person who knows how to speed shift a car in a drag race should be able to perform this type of shift in under 1/10th of a second.

I didn't read the article really carefully, I pretty much scanned it, but it is a good one and I recommend reading it.

 

Oops, forgot the link.. here it is.

http://www.318ti.org/notebook/shifting/

 

try driving an 18 wheeler like me for 10 year's , and you'll be a pro too, just kidding ,we all have our day's !, you'll get to a point where you can float them like myself! just don't be in a hurry and anticipate your shift's all the time!