justnspace

iTrader: (1)

you misunderstood.
Ive driven manuals for at least 5 years.

Just I couldnt learn the TL.
took me a while.


The Challenger SRT8 took me 1 day to master.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

learn on or learn, for me does not really matter how you look at it, still not the easiest clutch to "master"

there are quite a few other cars out there that are easier to "master"

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^and thats why the OP is having a hard time.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

and it will just take more practice for the OP, but once he does master it, he will more then likely love it (people either love it, or they hate it, it seems; but considering he had the choice of either transmission, he is more open to driving a manual, and loving it)

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

After a few months, I learned to love it.

Tips*I had to adjust my seating to adapt to the clutch take up.

ez12a

This.

http://youtu.be/L04lFa-5IHE

^serves as a useful guideline.

Gangsta lean in a MT car of any kind isnt optimal.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

yeah normally you have to move up slightly (like a notch or two on a manually adjusted seat)

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^well, what I found was that the engagement point was to LOW.
there fore I scooted my seat back. this way, instead of my legs doing the work, it's just my foot pivoting.

I'm used to dodges and their HIGH uptake clutches, where my whole leg was involved.

Now that I think about it, I probably caused my clutch to go.

tonyatkayak

it also took a while for me to perfect it (a year) but it was my first manual. just don't think too much and just drive. that's my advice

riicky

find the sweet spot!

TheDingo

Absolutely agreed. This car demands it lol

jungy4

As you let off the clutch and hit the gas pedal at the same time, there is that perfect point that delivers perfect shift. That's what I meant by friction point.

I wish I had more experience with other cars to compare my TL to.

mau108

Other manuals I have driven, 88 Nissan Sunny (Sentra for the American folks), 92 Toyota TownAce (Van). Both from the East Asia area, the Toyota was by far the easiest to drive, clutch was superb no shaky very easy to take off in 1st.

It was a diesel, but 100 times easier to drive then the TL but also 100 times less powerful :P

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

some cars are, others are not so easy to drive (generally as long as they have a good/deep first gear, they are not too bad for starting off)

SDSilverM3

That's what I was thinking too with the CDV. Of course it affects high RPM engagement too but thanks for confirming the off-idle effect. I'm used to driving clutches with instantaneous engagement so the little buffer/delay with the TL-S makes it more difficult to drive smoothly. Ironically, the S2000 also has a CDV but the clutch is much more forgiving.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

i also did it to the wife's 09 wrx, which also has one of those piece of shit valves, and now the clutch responds, and actually GRABS, and not just slip anymore (awd traction FTW lol)

also i know on it, it also made the clutch pedal alot easier/softer/consistent to press at the same time too, and just smoother in general


and as far as the S2K being more forgiving, easy the spring/hole or what not is softer/larger then on the tl, so it responds better, and not dampened as much

Legend2TL

When the Acura press release came out in 2006 for the Type-S, it talked about a revised pressure plate and clutch disk to "improve" the feel. I checked the art numbers and they are different for the 04-06 6MT and 07-08 6MT. IIRC I believe the flywheel is different too.

SouthernBoy

Thanks for the getback. I have wondered for some time why Acura/Honda chose to make a component which has been around for ages it seems, more complex and thereby introduce potential, and real, inherent problems. A clutch system is a relatively simple thing and there is really no need to try to "improve" it over what it has been at least for my lifetime. Which leads to the "why" factor.

Front drive cars are just not as strong as their rear wheel drive counterparts. It was clearly Acura/Honda's design direction to control the amount of shock and stress to the drive train components that result in really aggressive driving. Perhaps they would have done better to borrow a page from Ford's Contour SVT and copy their design. Now that was an over-engineered machine.

nfnsquared

OP, don't worry, you'll adapt in time. I drove an MT Supra Turbo for 17 years before getting my 04 6MT TL. After 17 years of driving a stick, the TL clutch was still a handful to learn at first.

Now, after driving the TL for 7.5 years, I still on occasion stall out. Nothing to worry about, just takes a little time.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

My TL is not my daily driver and I had a really hard time with the clutch too. Stalled a lot and when I really wanted to get on it, I felt like I was a first time manual driver riding the clutch.

After removing the check valve, I immediately felt it was 'normal' in both starting out from a standstill and banging through the gears. The mushy feeling of DBW still bugs me but it's tolerable with the clutch doing what I want now.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Stalling out after driving her for 7 years!!! I mean, we all do it occassionally but I think that's a testament to the fact that the car doesn't drive like most MT's. I say remove the slave...just don't beat on the car or shift too fast/aggressively. I don't regret removing it one bit. Car drove awkward and stressful...then did it and immediately the car drove as I felt it should have.

mau108

for someone who has perfected it without doing the slave mod, can they record video footage of their feet driving so I can see how they are doing it.

I cringe every time I release the clutch in 2nd

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^everyone is going to be different.

adapt to it.

plus you only had the car for only like a week.....

mau108

went out for lunch. Looks like low speed is fine, higher speed (like taking off from lights in traffic) is hardest. I guess the stress of having to go faster (shifting faster, releasing clutch faster) is the problem.

Meh I'll practice, I also find when the motor is cold it shifts smoother probably because engine is fast idling to warm up so its revving more then I do :P.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Hey...it's a free "mod"...
take out the delay valve in the slave cylinder. Make sure to have someone around to help you bleed after the fact.

You hate it or regret it...the whole slave assembly is $88 for a new one worst case. But trust me, we can talk about videos all day and theoretics on why we should or shouldn't and who's smarter and who isn't...bottom line, you will take it out. And you will be thankful for it.

I'm on 2 years with it like this with no obvious adverse effects that I'm aware of. The day I did this, I didn't hate driving my car anymore...quite the opposite. And that, is a fact.

The adjustment I was talking about was the 17MM bolt that adjusts the pressure switch (for turning on the car) and how far down you press the clutch before you feel the hardness and engagement.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

the neutral safety switch then...


yeah you can play with it a little, to adjust the height some, but if done too much, you can actually stop the clutch fully disengage causing issues with getting it into gear (normally reverse, due to it normally not be synchronized like the rest of the gears)\
but also if you have trouble getting it into gear, it means it is dragging some causing excessive heat to build up, when you are stopped with it in gear and the pedal depressed (say waiting for the car in front to start going)

so OP i would be careful with messing around with the adjustments on the pedal, till you have driven the car a bit more, and can tell the small differences in how the pedal feels from the adjustments

ez12a

the way i've always done it with my feet is as i'm upshifting i pause briefly at the friction point before full release of the clutch. The small slip introduced at that point will buffer out any speed differences between the transmission and the engine and reduce if not totally eliminate jerkiness. I dont let it slip for more than a second.

not my feet, but this is essentially what I do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OARgm9Uu2QM
^ignore the first start, but notice his clutch movement as he upshifts. Also, your feet will be moving proportionally (release clutch, push gas). During that small pause of slip you will be putting a tiny bit of throttle to control the RPM descent. once it's fully hooked up, release clutch, apply desired throttle.

Unless you're super duper skilled, "dropping" the clutch or releasing it without a pause when upshifting shocks the driveline and creates jerkiness (hence introduction of delay valve which can only help so much).

ez12a

and when i say tiny bit of throttle to control RPM i mean very little. Slowing down RPM drop, you're not increasing RPMs.

TKO1

I think this is your problem. You have to give some time for the rpms to drop. So going slow, assuming low rpm shifts, the rpms don't have much to drop. You're probably re-engaging 2nd at around idle. When you've got traffic behind you, you shift at a higher rpm to try to put distance between you and the slush driver, you go to shift and you're rushing it. But by shifting at a higher rpm, the rpms need to drop a further for a smooth shift.

Just ignore the people behind you.

It's kind of funny that I'm giving this advice because lately I've been paying a lot more mind to those road raging tailgaters and have been messing with my shift technique to keep the distance. It's throwing me off, shifts are jerky, and the stick just feels notchy and unpleasant. Even though I've been driving stick for 8 years (which isn't actually THAT much time) and know the basics of how it all works, I find I keep trying to quick shift in hopes of stumbling on something new. Now, I'm trying to reteach myself to not give a crap about those behind me so much.

jungy4

Don't worry about people behind you. If they hit your rear it's their fault. Chances are, more than half of people behind you don't even know how to drive a stick.

Cars that stop so close behind you on an uphill road is another thing that is annoying. Sometimes what I do is look in my rearview mirror and when the car behind me is approaching, I just let my car roll back just a little bit to make him/her aware of it.

mau108

Up hill actually isn't a problem but I've had a few morons come way too close. I find releasing the clutch slowly till I feel it begin nudge a bit then quickly release foot off brake and give it some gas and go.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

uphill starts are a beast of their own...even if you have the perfect clutch feel and shifting. Gotta love South Florida.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

but then you don't have the fun of cresting hills though, and getting some air

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

hmmm, i dont' remember my first driving experiences with my TL's clutch. i think it took me a couple of days to feel it out.

i had a much harder time learning to drive MT on my civic hatchback (way back when), that took a while (and my first time learning to drive stick, my poor civic). the engagement point on that car was freakin' small.

seemed like when i got my TL...get in and go. it might have something to do with muscle memory.

SDSilverM3

Oh yeah, the Civic HBs are pretty bad too. If you don't get it right, the car bucks like a wild horse. That's the best way I can describe it.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

yeah, that sounds about right...i was afraid of driving that car when i first had it, the fear of stalling it at a light and what not. once at speed on the hwy no big deal...around town that was whole other animal.

Acutron

Not sure if this is right or not, but I just drive the damn thing and the sweet spot from 2nd to 3rd seems to be between 3 - 3500 RPM. Most shifts feel more confident too after fluid replacement as well. I could be wrong though because it definitely is tricky to drive. Damn thing handled like a beast on the drive home though. OWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I learned on a 1990 civic Si.
And hell yeah, that thing would buck. But, once I got it down, you could let go of the clutch slowly and it would start rolling without any gas. Well, my 1991 hatch did.

About the TL...if you got in the TL and it felt normal to you...more power to you...

ez12a

Learned on an '89 Civic LX here! Not a hatchy but trans and D15 engine would be pretty darn similar. Si was a D16 iirc? Terrible car to learn on cause the throttle cable was kind of sticky. Super hard to do fine manipulation of the gas pedal.. most fun i had in highschool though.

didnt expect to see a lot of old civic drivers

6MTrules

OP: from 1-2 and for most other upshifting gears, you have to wait for the RPMs to drop, and then release the clutch. The RPMs will stop perfectly for the next higher gear, and you can release the clutch (smoothly) without worry. This is the only thing that bothers me about the TL, that the RPMs do not drop fast enough. Another poster mentioned about blipping the throttle to control RPM descent. That has NEVER been needed in my case. Search for some threads of mine from a long time ago, and see what I experienced, regarding rev matching.

And most importantly, read everything that SouthernBoy posts regarding manual transmissions.