silvermullet

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY F**KIN CORRECT!!!! MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM WITH 6MT THINK THEIR FASTER... MOST OF YOU PROBABLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO POWER SHIFT CORRECTLY, SO BY THE TIME YOU'VE SHIFTED TO 3RD TO TRY AND BEAT ME, I WILL HAVE ALREADY SHIFTED AND SMOKED YOU ANYWAY. I BOUGHT MY TL THE 2ND WEEK IT CAME OUT AND TURNED PLENTY OF HEADS DURING THE 3 MONTHS BEFORE 6MT CAME OUT. IM HAPPY WITH MY 5AT.

Aegir

So...what you are saying (yelling) is that even though the 6MT is 100 pounds lighter, and puts more power to the ground, and can launch at a higher RPM, and can shift at a higher RPM, and has a limited slip differential for better traction, it is likely to lose because the driver probably doesn't know how to launch or shift...and that's the basis for your hypothetical victory?

Hey, it's your dream. You may as well include the victory lane celebration and champagne! :toothless

silvermullet

Dude...

I keep running into you... and YES that is exactly what I am saying... if we were talking about a TL vs. M5 then its definitely the car,

6MT definitely has its slight advantages, and is technically faster... BUT ITS NOT THE CAR!!!! ITS THE DRIVER!!!!! If you are a power shifter and can shift perfectly all the time, at the optimal power band range, then you probably will beat me consistently... BUTT!!! you probably aren't, therefore you probably won't.

Aegir

Now that my perspective has shifted and I see that I'm in a world where people spend more time polishing their cars than actually driving them, I guess I have to agree.

Just be wary. I'm sure there are at least a few TL drivers that know what a powershift is.

PoochaKannInc

I'm glad that you are happy w/ your 5AT (and the fact that you have turned plenty of heads). And since you obviously know every single person's driving abilities on this site, you are also obviously correct in your statement that you will beat the 6MT. :think:

My point is that you are assuming that "most" people don't know how to drive a stick. A person who did know how to launch and shift properly could "smoke" you. But hey, that is just my assumption.

Either way enjoy your TL, and be careful not to beat those 6MT drivers too badly...we do have a reputation to keep up...

silvermullet

[QUOTE=PoochaKannInc]
My point is that you are assuming that "most" people don't know how to drive a stick. A person who did know how to launch and shift properly could "smoke" you. But hey, that is just my assumption.QUOTE]

Lets get 1 thing straight! the magazine times and sh!t that you 6MT driver base all of you 'bragging rights' on are done by professional drivers. and NO i am not assuming that most people don't know how to drive a stick.

I AM ASSUMING THAT MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW HOW TO DRIVE A STICK WELL ENOUGH TO ACHIEVE THOSE 'MAGAZINE TIMES' SO STOP LYING TO YOURSELF. YES IF PEOPLE DID KNOW HOW TO LAUNCH CORRECTLY THEY WOULD SMOKE ME, BUT MOST PEOPLE DON'T, SO THEY PROBABLY WON'T... MOST PEOPLE PUT TOO MUCH THROTTLE, SO THEY'LL PROBABLY SIT THERE AND BURN THEIR WHEELS BEFORE GETTING ANY SORT OF GOOD LAUNCH. SECONDLY, ON THE ROLE, BY THE TIME YOU'RE SHIFTING TO 3RD, I'LL HAVE ALREADY HIT V-TEC AND ARE PROBABLY WATCHING YOU FROM MY MIRROR.
SPORT SHIFT IS IN NO WAY AN OUNCE FOR OUNCE COMPARISON, HOWEVER ITS ENOUGH TO CUT THE MANUAL ADVANTAGE BY QUITE A BIT.

STICK IS MORE FUN, BUT ARE YOU FASTER B/C YOU HAVE A STICK?

9/10 TIMES, PROBABLY NOT!

ANSWER THIS. WHEN IS THE OPTIMAL RPM TO SHIFT. SURE IT VARIES BY CAR, BUT IF YOU COULDN'T ANSWER THAT W/O LOOKING IN SOME BOOK, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO DRIVE YOUR CAR. ***HINT*** ITS NOT REDLINE.

OH AND WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, FIGURE OUT WHEN V-TEC ENGAGES AND WHAT THE POWER BAND IS FOR THE TL!

POSERS!

PoochaKannInc

[QUOTE=silvermullet]1. Why are you yelling? I'm assuming you are yelling because your response is in caps. And here I thought we were having a conversation. I'm not lying to myself about anything.
2. I agree with you that most people probably don't know how to drive a stick well enough to acheive magazine times. Umm...who said they needed a magazine time to beat an auto though?
3. Tell me silvermullet...why am I a poser? Have I pretended I can beat your auto? Is that why you seem so pissed off? I haven't. In fact, I did state earlier that I am new to driving a manual. When was I posing to be something different?
4. By the way, if I was actually racing someone, I would shift at 6200-6500 rpm. But I haven't raced anyone in my TL, I've been concentrating on learning how not to f up my $34K car's clutch. Maybe I will race someone some day when I'm comfortable enough. You can bet on this though, I won't be online the next day posting a "kill" story. I'm not Michael Schumacher, dumbass. And neither are you (unless Schumacher hangs out at TL forums under the name of SilverMullet). We are two interent forum members who don't know each other getting worked up over nothing...so calm down...

Aegir

Best shifts are at 6500, but I start the shift at about 6300 because I acknowlege that I am not faster than the engine is revving. Same principle as launching on the last yellow. Yes, I know what that is.

Best launch is 2000-2500, a quick rev and slip the clutch. You can't dump the clutch because you will smoke them or bog. I know because I have practiced.

VTEC kicks in at 4700 - but that really doesn't matter because it's a seamless transition that maintains the power and torque curves. It's not like something magical happens.

Here's some more facts: 5AT shifts too early 1st to 2nd in sport shift. Low stall speed is a disadvantage that delays getting into the power band but makes launching easier. A properly executed manual transmission shift is faster than a stock 5AT shift.

I agree that if a 6MT owner does not know these things and is not proficient at launching, he is at a disadvantage. I don't know if it is true that most 6MT owners are in that category.

Yes, there is a poser here...

moeronn

Not trying to stir the pot here, but are we talking a true race here or just 0-60 times? For 0-60, you don't really have to shift or use SS on the 5AT. Drop it into Low and it will shift from 1st to 2nd 'near' redline. The AT can easily get to 60 in 2nd with a _near_ optimal PRM shift. Now if you were trulu racing, then you would have to shift out of Low and into...? Drive? SS?. I think this would cause enough shift lag that most competent (aka, not professional) manual drivers could catch up to, if not pass, the 5AT. I have no controlled results to confirm this, it's just my hypothesis.

Rather than really waste time on which TL is 0.1 seconds faster, how about everyone just enjoy the car they have and drive it as the car it is - a sports sedan, not a dragster.

NFS7

what are the actual differences between the 6MT and the 5AT?

i know that 6MT has the brembos and LSD, but what else? Just curious, thanks!

caball88

thicker sway bars as well.

PoochaKannInc

NFS7, look at post # 42. Aegir summarized the differences well I think.

Moeronn: couldn't have agreed w/ you more about the "everyone just enjoy the car they have."

prophet_RENAMED

Not sure why everyone is fighting over 5at and 6spd. I bought the 5AT because the 6spd is nearly impossible to get in the color combo I wanted with Navi. If I didn't have to wait 2-3 months or more to TRY to locate one, I'd probally get a 6spd. To me it just seems like its a better value (lsd's = $1000, brembo's = $xxx, and stiffer bars).

The 6spd definitely has the advantages over the 5at. For one the GEARING (yes this is important..) on the 6spd is a lot better. Not to mention the 100 pound difference (again another important factor). I'm not sure about you, but i've seen people mess up AT launches too...

In all honesty most people don't know how to drive manual transmissions well. Most people can't shift smoothly, don't rev match when dropping a gear, and just plain scarey when it comes to paying attention to the road. I'm actually glad the typical American is too lazy to drive a manual tranny car.

William_B

This is far too true. Most are too lazy to learn.

moeronn

Period. Doesn't matter what kind of transmission they have

planman_RENAMED

[QUOTE=silvermullet]Wow! I thought only non-TL-owning closed-minded, TL-haters got flamed here. What's up with all the infighting? Can't we all just get along?

againstallodds1

I have an auto, and I wish more than anything that I have gotten a manual. I am starting to search to see if there is a auto to manual conversion so I can make up for that 20% drive loss. If anyone has experience or knows anything about this please reply. Thanks

your_mom

I really like the 6MT. After 6 years of driving automatics, I forgot how much more fun shifting for yourself is. Also, th 6MT is an incredibly precise and smooth shifter. Traffic is really a non issue, I just try and leave plenty of space in front of me and let the others do the stop and go while I roll along at 3mph.

northwoods

i realize this isn't the thrust of your question but since the acura AT

blows up, isn't the MT a default pick?

hootie

life is too short for at

SouthernBoy

In part, I would look at kind of in reverse of what you wrote. That is, selecting an automatic might be considered the default selection due to perhaps an injury or such which limits or restricts your ability to operate a manual transmission. Barring that, for the life of me, I cannot see a reason to buy an automatic.. oh, accept for these situations: towing or living in a place like San Francisco.

I know.. personal preference and yes, this is absolutely true. Along with a strong bias in favor of a manual tranny. Then there are the economics if they be a concern. Manual transmissions are far less expensive to own and operate than are automatics. And simpler to service and maintain.

But still it does boil down to personal preference.

1GreyTeg

This is by far the funnyiest and most truthful statement I think I've read on a board in a few months.

Lazy is one thing but I've run into people that actually go out of their way to ignore how to drive manual well. It'll be a sad world when we run out of people that can actually do it at all. Or for a similar reason is not an option that can be ordered. I think that it should be required for your licensing road test.

JoganJani

No regrets about getting 6MT whatsoever. It is way way more fun than driving Auto. I drive in the SF bay area and still love 6MT.

crm_codder

I drove MT for many years before and I am still riding my bike with MT. Sorry, but AT is for grown man and not for kids with 20 inch chrome rims on TL and DVD player instead of navy!!!

HiTEC

Why does everyone say that most people can't drive a manual transmission? I don't get that logic. I've been driving manual for 15 years. I don't claim to be a race car driver or professional drag racer. I think I'm pretty darn good at it. I've had my past Audi's out on Road America a couple times, I do plenty of auto-x's, and when I was younger did plenty of drag racing (doesn't interest me anymore).

People have mentioned the 100lbs weight savings with the manual, but nobody has bothered to mention that a torque converter with is present in any auto trans (except cvt's) totally saps power from the driveline. Even though the engines have the same HP, more of it gets to the ground with a manual transmission because it does not have a torque/hp sapping torque converter.

HEK

6m here and wouldn't trade it, I keep shutting the engine off my wife's Ody in gear and I'm allways looking for a the shifter and clutch...love the van but I would love it more if it came stick...

Nandito28

Myne started squeling around 4500 is this normal?

Nandito28

I love red lineing my 6speed...Think of it this way you will be more alert in stop and go traffice sine you can't do much without a third hand.

Nandito28

Oh one thing you might want to consider...6speeds have way less wheel (rims) options out there for it ....especially if you want some deep lips with your rims (because of the Brembo breaks in the front)....In my case I had to settle for a staggered look! I wonder if you can put regular breaks in the front on a 6speed??? is it a hard conversion???

SouthernBoy

Actually, the several posters who wrote that most people do not know how to "properly" drive a manual transmission are correct (the operative word here is "properly"). While there are certainly many ways in which to do this, there is really only one way to do it right.

I have been operating a manual transmission for over 40 years and have seen a whole lot of bad habits. And I must tell you truthly, it is a pretty rare experience when I ride with someone with a manual tranny who knows how to operate it correctly. Believe me, I take notice of those things even at stop lights and in traffic.

I, too, did my share of drag racing in my younger years, both on the track and on the street. Drag racing nowhere approaches the proper operation of a manual transmission because of the extreme stresses placed upon the drive train. If you speed shift, you will significantly reduce those stresses, but there's just no way to avoid them. But on the street, you would think that gearheads should know better.

There's a guy who lives next to me who just this year, completed his project car: a Factory Five replica of a 1966 427 Shelby AC Cobra. He built this from the ground up over 3 years and he knows his stuff. But even he does not know how to properly operate a manual transmission. I know.. I've ridden with him.

So yes, saying "most people don't know how to properly operate a manual transmission" is a true statement. Just take some notice and you'll see.

HiTEC

Honestly I don't know anyone else that owns a manual transmission. Everybody buys autos these days.

Brettg

I dont know if I could beat an auto trans TL or not, I know I dont operate the transmission correctly, and dont care, the car serves me, not the other way around, and I dont care if the clutch wears out at only 150,000 miles, I wont have the car then.

I do know I have lots of fun with the manual, its less trouble, and from my test rides, under normal driving, the manual cars seemed quieter and smoother than the auto trans cars we test drove.

I cant drink and smoke while in stop and go traffic (which is good), and I cant react as fast when the guy next to me decides to floor his car, and I dont care, I did not get the TL as a race car.

I do know the manual trans cars are hard to get in the colors you want...

If we could not have gotten the TL in a manual, I would have got something else.

Brett

DFBRL8R

Coming from an S2000, I sometimes miss having a manual. But after recently tearing ligaments in my left ankle, I'm glad I have an auto.... I commute 138 miles a day.

jefe57

First car was a manual so it is hard to go back once you realize how much more fun it is. AT is great for people that are point A to point B folks. For the rest of us that enjoy what is between A and B, a manual is great. It more than makes up for a once-in-a-while traffic jam in my opinion.

With the advent of cell phones, one could say that was another reason to skip to the AT but the TL solved that problem for me with the bluetooth! And the voice commands for all other controls with the navi!

jmbnova

Wow... I even hate to jump into this conversation.... One thing is for sure... NOONE is on the fence about thier choice..... I actually bought a brand new 05 AT and traded it 6 months later for the EXACT SAME CAR in a MT.... I just couldnt stand the AT... Some people say that when you drive an AT you are steering the car and that when you drive a MT you truely are driving the car.... But I think I'll keep my opinions to myself so i dont get called a 'poser' like was popular back in Junior High...

SouthernBoy

In my area, manuals are quite popular. You do see a lot of upper-end performance sedans with them. And, of course, the obligatory serious driving machines as well. The largest Acura dealer in my area (and I suspect in the entire metro-DC area) averages around 25-27% manual TLs in their inventory at any given time, so they are in demand and they are selling, though a quick check today reveals a rather low manual inventory.

Two of my three vehicles are manuals.

boognishloeb

After 6 years of manual trans...I am here to say that Auto rocks especially w/ an 06' TL! I am in outside sales and nothing was worse than driving, shifting and talking. Now w/ hfl I can just drive and enjoy the fine ride.

SouthernBoy

There are times when an automatic transmission may be the way to go and you may have named one for some folks. Back in the later 70's (in my other profession) I was also doing outside sales, and it was with a 1977 Celica GT Liftback with a 5-speed manual transmission. Never caused me a moment of concern.. but then again, no manual I've ever owned has.

I currently own a 2001 Ford Ranger pickup (the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned, including my TL I might add). It's a manual, but for some trucks, I can and would see the desire for an automatic. Towing immediately comes to mind (I used to tow a boat).

Last night, the wife and I took a neighbor couple to dinner for a Christmas gift and we used my wife's 2005 TL which is an automatic. A nice auto it is, but compared to my '04 manual.. well, there is little comparison. Today, a trip up to Leesburg on route 15 and then back into Centreville, then Manassas with my '04 manual TL was pure enjoyment and luxury.

Count me as a solid and dyed-in-the-wool manual lover.

gurneyeagle

I wanted a 6MT, but none were available when I bought my car. Based on the post-Katrina commute I now have, I'm glad I got the 5AT.

A 45 minute, mostly 70 mph run now takes about 90 minutes and is a stop-and-go crawl for a good part of it.

I'm at 6,000 miles and have no rattles or problems. Every once in a while on a really cold morning, I do hear a slight buzzing from the right passenger door. The easiest fix is to just crank up the radio. That's what is for anyway!