Southbound

Does anyone know what was done to the new 04 TL engine to gain the additional 10 HP from the 2002/2003 TL-S?

It appears to me from the engine specs that all was done was to increase the compression ratio from 10.5:1 to 11:1.

If that is the case, is this small percentage of added horsepower really worth the extra risk of having the engine hard to crank over when hot in the summer, and run hotter in general, while also requiring higher octane fuel to really perform optimally? Will 91 octane in California really satisfy this engine's thirst? Can you say "knock detector"...

I think the 270HP is really more of a marketing ploy than an actual improvement in everyday performance. I'd love to see 300HP in these cars, but the only real way to do that would be to use more displacement in the way of a 3.5L and then RWD to handle the pep. I guess Acura didn't want to go all the way out with their all new designed TL. Maybe they will do so with an upcoming TL-S, if they even go that route again?

Anyway, any thoughts as to whether anyone feels that the new engine may be more tempormental to operate than the extra HP is worth?

Thanks for the opinions

acura_driver

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=129159

EmuMessenger

Seems like an awful lot of effort for only 10HP.

Let's get one of these babies to the dyno!

FirstAcura

270 ponies, 30 miles to the gallon, and room for 'adult size' people in the back seat...........good enough for me!!

bigman

dont forrget, this car "only" has 10 more horses than a type s but the car makes more hp and tq throughout the rev range.

Rock Dog

They also installed theri OWN CAI in the car. So let's see a CAI and the boost in compression gave up 10 more HP?

I think that Acura is under quoting the output. As said before, let's get it dynoed.

neuronbob

I agree with Rock Dog. On TOV, there's n Acura-provided graphic describing a peak HP of 275, not 270. So it seems that Acura is purposely underquoting the output. For what reason, I know not. But I agree with the sentiment of getting a dyno. If only I could do it in Cleveland...

mook

Perhaps Acura has learned a lesson from Mazda...

Twice Mazda has misquoted output of their engines (on the 2002 Miata and the 2004 RX-8). It cost them a lot of money to make the owners of those cars happy. They had to offer buy the car back or gave the owner a $500 gift card.

Better to be under the true output than over. If the TL turns out more ponys all the better, but can you imagine the waling and knashing of teeth if it actually turned out less? Yikes!

need4spd

Dont forget besides the CAI, the compression bump, the following was changed, molded in headers, higher flow exhaust, 3 stage catilitic (one at each exhuast header, and one down stream), yes I always thought a lot was done for ONLY 10hp!

Rock Dog

You're exactly right. The exhaust has been opened up, and so have the built in headers. (which of course just KILLED a chunk of Comptechs market.)

All these changes MUST have brought about more thean 10 HP.

need4spd

Just can't figure where all those other pony's went, either that, or they need to fire all those engineers! I want that job, 10hp, no problem, can do!

Southbound

I agree that if they have made all of these moves, they must have been able to create more than 10 additional HP. It must be underrated as some have suggested. That would be nice to find out. How much have the 0-60 and 1/4 miles times improved over the 03TLS? The overall weight of the car is almost identical, so that might help to shed some light on whether or not a substantical power increase was indeed made.

Still, I would like to know if anyone feels that the compression ratio of 11:1 might cause some nuisance problems with hot cranking and pinging, etc.?

Thanks for the input

neversat

Emissions!

need4spd

It is only 0.5 different than other cars. I will say that cold, it does start rough, but the owners manual says this is due to emmisions reduction. Hot cranking so far is not a problem, I use 93 octane.

Ken1997TL

It has been stated by people in "the know" that the TL puts more like 283 hp. Also, it takes the Type S further with a VERY broad torque range.

T Ho

I don't think it's a big deal. They've obviously done their homework regarding pinging, as virtually all Honda engines across the board are heading up in CR.
Hard starting? No sweat. It's nothing that turning back the initial timing during starting won't take care of.
Higher compression is higher efficiency, so you can see why they are moving in this direction. Why didn't they do it sooner? NOx emissions go through the roof as peak cylinder pressure rises, and catalyst technology has never been superb in dealing with NOx (as opposed to the leaps and bounds made in HC/CO reduction).

FYI- the Toyota Prius runs 13:1 on recommended 87 octane. The Civic Hybrid is 11.3:1 on 87 octane.

Tosh

Not to sound cynical, but I think all car companies are mostly about marketing. But it has been noted in particular that since Old Mr. Honda's death, Honda, and particularly Acura, have become marketing driven as opposed to engineering driven. As clear proof of their engineering failures, I call your attention to the warping brakes and the failing automatic transmissions and their failing replacements. Mr. Honda would have been embarrassed and apologetic to us enthusiasts for letting his cars have marginal brakes. That's just cheap. I suppose you could argue that any company could have problems with a complex transmission, but to feel how their accountants and lawyers are treating this problem is disgusting: They have simply extended the warranty past the point where most owners would trade in their car, gambling that nobody dies in an accident and hoping that their reputation for good reliability can take the hit. It's simply an accounting formula, based on benefit/risk, just like with the Ford Pinto.... After all, Honda reliability just has to stay about even with Toyota to keep making money and keep their market share. Mistakes happen, right? And with the person whose name is on the car gone, there's really no individual who is responsible.
So, who's going to be the guinea pig for the new TL? Has Honda fixed the problem? How many years will it take for problems to show up? Notice how the marketing dept has spun one problem and dictated a Brembo upgrade? And why does the automatic still get better gas mileage than the manual? I can't believe I'm saying this, but I still believe the company makes cars second only to Toyota, and I suppose Honda marketing is banking on this attitude even among jilted customers. But I'm not buying the first model year of anything.
Now, regarding the 270hp. In my opinion, it's just a little marketing balancing act: Notice how the MDX has only 265hp (even with 3.5) and the outgoing CL/TL Type S has 260hp. Just like Nissan plays with Altima (245), Maxima (265), G35 Sedan (260) G35 Coupe (280) and 350Z (287). Anyhow, the general pattern is more money should equate to more horses (within a given company). And next year, the TL will have 275, and so it should be, as technology improves. But I am certain the marketing dept will make sure the new RL has 10hp more and the new NS-X a further 15hp. Add it all up, and there's your 300hp, Southbound! Seriously though, I'm pretty sure Honda know what they're doing as far as engines go....

Tosh

vtechbrain

Guys, all these innovations were present in the previous types S. The only differences are the higher compression and the freer exhaust. That is why the bump is only 10 HP, which is what you can expect from such limited mods. I'm also sure some electronic adjustments have improved the torque curve. The type S engine was and still is, with few mods, one if not the best 6 cylinder engines in the market.

partagas

Point 2, the CL-S was a little weak for 260hp. With only 100 lbs more to carry, it couldn't keep up with the 225hp BMW. So, my guess is that Honda took the 250hp engine to 280hp and went from overstating to conservative. Notice that the C&D times on the 240hp Honda are better than the CL-S times.

T Ho

Simple math. The final drive ratio (and thus, the cruise RPM) is higher on the manual than the auto. This, apparently, was intentional, to give the manual more "spirited" gearing. The TSX is the same.

partagas

Oops, I was just there for the arrival of a shipment at local dealer. The autos are 19/28 and the 6mts were ***20/30***.
I drove a 6mt all over up the central sierra. It handles, shifts, brakes, accelerates great. The body roll is minimal. You can sure feel the damn all season tires. The light clutch, light steering and quiet isolation will be a slightly tough transition to get confidence after my 330i.

Iggy

Southy,
There you are! I lost your addy(HD fail w/no backup) oops

lfrank@adelphia.net

I have a quick question for ya!

See ya(and still have the Bisque)
Iggy