thoiboi

Complains than a Honda is too high maintenance, suggests getting a Mustang instead..

You can't just say "FACTS" as if that somehow makes them true. How about cite your sources as the "most expensive to maintain" and "most problematic"?


We'll wait

thoiboi

Have you tried just taking it to a shop that has a press and have them press them in for you? Or buy this one: https://acurazine.com/forums/market/996244 and do it yourself? There is also a DIY thread on this site if you're up to doing it.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Honda simps?! He's in the wrong Acurazine section for that. I can start tagging some but i'm sure those some will hit the mommy button.

0-60 in 6 seconds for an 18 year old vehicle is terrible? But in 2022, the base TLX SH-AWD does it in 7 seconds is better? (source: https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...k-test-review/)

I'm sure he's going to say some delusional bullshit like the new Acura's are such reliable vehicles yet that has been proven wrong. Can't even have puddle lights that last 5 miles away from the dealership after you cleared out 50K from your savings account. I better stop before the stay at home moms come here and call me a hater because "I'm poor" and "can't afford a new Acura".. This coming from people making payments on a bank owned vehicle or people that haven't bought anything new in the last 10 years.

Maybe someone with a 3rd gen TL stole this dudes girl? Maybe that's why he be on here calling true enthusiasts and some of the best members here simps? Sounds a lot like those hurt members in the TLX section when BMW is mentioned.

Acurazine has turned into a shit hole. Worthless trolls and posers on this forum allowed to do as they please. Some authority here defend their brahs. Oh well. My time here is limited anyway.

Midnight Mystery

Only thing the new TLX has on the 3G is the gearing, auto vs auto, that is.

donkiboy

I wouldn't suggest buying 04-06 TL unless the buyer is able to do most of the maintenance / repair themselves. Here is rundown of all issues & repairs during my ownership that aren't considered maintenance from 113K to 166K.
Maybe previous owner didn't do much preventive maintenance or the car was beat on. Regardless the 3G TL isn't cheap to keep running as miles add up.

- torn driver seat cover
- leaking power steering rack
- leaks in front / rear main seal, axle seals, cam seals, oil pan
- tranny was rebuilt in (by previous owner but the case is now leaking)
- dash started cracking
- failed hood struts and trunk struts
- replaced all engine mounts
- valve adjustment
- NAV disk read failure
- radiator leak

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

While I am more than capable of doing all of my own work, I am way-WAY too busy these days to do much more than an oil change (and even that gets pushed off to a local indy garage on occasion). Nobody ever said a 3G TL was cheap to maintain, but I submit it is relatively inexpensive to maintain in general and especially so compared to other cars in its class (thinking a BMW 5-Series, which by the way was the benchmark used for the 3G TL). Like I've posted elsewhere, I've put about $6,000 of required and preventative maintenance into my car since I purchased it 5 years a; to my way of thinking, $1,200 per year is very affordable and might even qualify as "cheap".

Relative to your repairs, I bought my car with 114,000 miles on it and there are now 176,000 showing on the clock; my maintenance has been the following:

• New Axles
• New Clutch and Flywheel
• New Rear Main Seal
• New Brakes at all corners
• New front Suspension Bushings
• New Battery
• New Positive Battery Cable
• New Tires
• New Rear Wheel Hubs
• New OEM Engine Mounts
• New OEM Tranny Mounts

I don't consider anything in either your list or mine to be unusual, excessive, or expensive; simply the cost of properly maintaining an older high mileage car, which by the way, costs a fraction of what owning a new car would cost.

donkiboy

Yes I wouldn't exactly consider maintenance high if it wasn't for major oil leaks that I had. If I'm not mistaken oil leaks are relatively common on high mileage Honda V6 that are paired with auto (i.e. pilot, odyssey, accord, TL).

truonghthe

So you can see even my beater 05 TL didn't even come close to what original experienced, like I said before make sure do your homework before buying. History, history of maint....
I don't care Mr. XYZ tell me what done if he/she unable to provide document prove the work has been done to me its not done.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I've never experienced a "Major Oil Leak" on a J-Series motor, but yes, they do tend to weep; this is why I always recommend a full set of cam seals, front main oil seal, a new water pump, and resealing the oil pump, for each timing belt swap. This is also why I opted to do the rear main seal on my engine when I had the clutch done.

As for oil leaks in general, when easily fixed, then fix them; when not so easy (i.e. crank main and cam seals), do them when you're in there, even if they aren't weeping yet. The original owner of both of my J-Series equipped cars didn't opt to do all of the front seals when they had the timing belt done, and almost as if "scheduled", both engines started leaking from the cam seals at about 140,000 miles. In the case of my TL, I'll happily add a quart between oil changes until the 210,000 mileage mark comes up, then I'll have all of the seals redone.

Mark in Baltimore

My perspective is that it's absolutely worthwhile to purchase one of these third-generation TLs. I purchased my 117,000 mile, 2006 6MT TL (WDP/tan) at the end of 2018 for $4,000. The car has been languishing on the market for about 45 days, presumably because of the transmission layout as well as poor, seller pre-sale prep work.

The Good: new clutch had been installed at 100,000 miles, timing belt had been replaced at around 90,000 miles, the power steering rack had been replaced at 88,000 miles, and no dash cracks.

The Bad: the rear seat leather was torn, it had the classic third gear pop out, the interior looked like a nursery had been run out of it, five spoke wheels were trashed, headlights were faded, the tires were done, and the radio/NAV stopped working (NBD since I was planning on swapping out the NAV anyway).

The Eventuality: replaced the spark plugs/coil packs and did an oil change, changed the gearbox fluid with the GM synchromesh lube, obtained a "free" ($60 shipping from NY ) rear seat skin and had it installed, had to replace both rear calipers and rotors at 119,000 miles, had to replace the alternator and the radiator at 124,000 miles, had to replace both of the front Brembo calipers when one of them was leaking, had to replace a leaking valve cover gasket at 135,000 miles, had to replace the left axle at 136,000 miles (also ended up replacing the right axle, birth control arms and the ball joints), and had to replace the starter at 137,000 miles.

Except for the first two maintenance items, I had a shop do the other work to the tune of about $3,400, so I guess this is a $7,400 TL. In for a penny, in for a pound. Doesn't include the Enkei Raijin rims, swaybar, GTR LED foglight bulbs (amazing difference), new Osram HID bulbs, SRP pedal covers and new factory gear shift knob.

Is this car worthwhile to me? Without question. Although I purchased it as a rainy day/winter car to augment my other "more fun" cars, I just love driving it, even with the front wheel drive layout. It's pretty damn quick and hustles through traffic as good as I want it, the ride is excellent, the handling is better after I installed the Progress adjustable swaybar, it's quiet enough to talk on the phone without people complaining that they can hear wind or exhaust noise, and, most importantly to me, the gearbox is wonderfully perfect with excellent pedal placement. With a manual gearbox, even the most prosaic car taking the most mundane drive becomes that much more special versus its slushbox brethren.

Since this generation of TL is considered to be the prettiest version, I wouldn't be surprised to see it go up in desirability and value, especially because of the three pedal layout and the restrained good looks, because cars are going EV and due to the near-demise of full manuals. I expect it to go over 300,000 miles, especially because I'm using Red Line oil and obtain regular oil analysis on the engine oil and the gearbox fluid.

To the OP, would it be worthwhile to you considering that you're thinking of an Audi and a BMW? Don't know. I steered away from both of those marques because of the perceived lack of reliability and higher parts and labor costs. I wonder how much more I would've paid for all of my repairs if I had a German vehicle? Although I've never owned either brand, I've owned another German brand; nothing about those other cars is cheap.

Oh, maybe I've been asleep at the switch, but I've never heard of these 3G Honda/Acura motors needing valve adjustments every 30,000 miles. FWIW: https://artsautomotive.com/home/art-...lve-adjust-v6/

Bense

I cannot begin to emphasize the importance of the transmission here. I have rebuilt and sold about 15-20 stock J-series FWD transmissions in the last 18 months. It is going to to need to be rebuilt. The synchros simply wear out after time.

If anyone is going to get a used TL that plans to keep it for an extended time period, I would suggest that you do these things around the same time:

Phase One:
* Timing belt
* Water pump
* Oil pump seal (as necessary)
* Lower ball joints
* Tie rod ends
* Brake caliper hoses

Phase Two:
* Transmission rebuild - possibly even final drive upgrade
* Flywheel, clutch, pressure plate
* Engine rear main seal.
* Engine and transmission mounts

Phase Three (as needed):
* Headgasket / Cylinder head gasket set
* Lower control arms -- moog sells a front end kit.

The final drive upgrade is subjective and arguably biased towards my own opinion. Take that information however you'd like.

What would be nice is if all of us could work together and for us to get a handful of engine builds;
* J32A3 engines with J35 cranks
and/or
* J35 engines with J32A3 pistons

Cheap, OEM high compression. Then all of us pitch in and get a really solid dyno tune, and then split the costs.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

You keep saying that but the rest of us with untouched 6MTs with hundreds of thousands of miles on them say otherwise.

truonghthe

I am pretty sure you just waste precious calories at this point just let it go Horsey.

Pair of TLs

Depends.
Did OP even look at the car?

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

You're mentioning things that are common to this generation TL, which are also wear and tear items for not only this TL, but for every vehicle. I've always said that the 3rd gen TL isn't economical / reliable as they age. There's that fine line between what people consider reliable and repairs done. It can be a rolling dumpster, but as long as it starts and runs, it's reliable. I respect those that feel this way, but I don't agree with it. I count every single issue as what it is, an issue. Small or big, it's an issue that needs attention to correct. For example on my TL, my headliner started to sag. Is it a reliability issue? Not really, but it's an issue that cost me $1,200 to resolve because I bought a new OEM liner.

The dashboard crack, the leather seats tearing apart, the blue tooth unit taking a shit, the navigation unit failing, ect ect. These are all items that are costly, but not critical to keeping the car running, well except for the blue tooth unit since it causes a massive electrical drain. To me, these are issues and issues that cost $$$ to resolve. So I count that as long term reliability and cost of ownership. On average, my TL costs me about 3-5K a year in repairs and this is a car I rarely drive. Just your basic multi-point inspection with all fluids serviced and possible misc repairs or services. Like last year I did a full paint correction and removed any dings. That ran $2,300 I believe. Another 2K in services.

There is not a single vehicle that doesn't require hefty repairs at some point. I've seen many say "All I've done are brakes and oil changes for the last 250K" but their vehicles have rust, looks like they washed the car with a brillo pad several times, interior and exterior falling apart, ect. This is why I said people have different perspective on what's reliable and real cost of ownership. If you want any vehicle to remain in showroom condition for 200K, you will spend a good amount of money vs the owner who does basic services, maybe washes their vehicle once a month, ect.

Midnight Mystery

Gus, your attention to detail makes me insecure and the average owner look straight up abusive by comparison.

I'd say right now I could easily throw $5K at my TL to get everything tip top even though the car is already one of the cleaner TL's out there.

capper

If this was the norm I would not have gotten a 2nd one. That's crazy.

Legend2TL

I'd skip the valve adjustment unless you have some valvetrain noise. The J motors with their roller followers hold valve clearance very well. As for the compliance bushings, if you can remove the lower control arms and see if your Honda/Acura dealership would press out/in the new bushings (two per arm). My Honda dealer charging ~0.75 hour per arm to do this task with the control arms off the car. I've done that when I don't wanna mess with pressing them out/in.

majority of the time when someone starts using the "facts" statement it's anything but

Cartridge wheel bearing tool also works for this but a press is best and safer

In my experience that's not the case for J series motors, I've never seen any major oil leaks on any of them (Pilot's, MDX's, and Ody's) despite typically 200k+ miles. Honda OEM seals and gaskets are pretty awesome. And in general J series motors are low in overall maintenance cost from my experience with typically oil changes, TB/water pumps, and spark plugs.

Bense

I stand by what someone else in this thread said, where its basically only going to be worthwhile if you do the work yourself.

I also see that a lot of you in this thread are from up north. To put things into perspective, this past weekend we were snowed in. Its only been the 3rd time within the last 10 years that this has happened. There is hardly any salt on the roads, ever down here and vehicles do not rust out like they do up north. People down here tend to keep vehicles longer.

I paid $2900 for my 2006 Accord Sedan V6 6MT. It had 230k miles on it at the time and had had the clutch/pressure plate changed around 180k. Now granted, I do have my transmission side hustle, so my own out of pocket costs for anything transmission related (this does NOT include clutch/pressureplate/flywheel) is essentially 'free' for me. Furthermore, I have always made it a point to try to see if there's another OEM part (OEM as in, OEM Honda or aftermarket OEM replacement. i.e. non-"performance") part that I can use as an upgrade (e.g. upgrading to larger brakes when my vehicle is in need of replacement brake pads/rotors).

Yes, I do have an Accord and not a TL. However almost every part that I've ordered for my car is identical to TL. Most of the time I select 2006 Acura TL on RockAuto. The only parts that are Accord specific are the junkyard parts that I got from the Accord hybrid.



New parts: Purchased from Rockauto or elsewhere.

• $365 - Moog "Front end kit".
  • - Front Lower control arms
  • - Front sway bar end links
  • - Front lower ball joints
  • - Tie rods, inner and outer
• $17 - Upper Transmission mount.
• $6 - Clutch hydraulic hose.
• $34 - EM2 Clutch master cylinder.
• $4 - Exhaust hanger bushing.
• ~$70 - Brake caliper hydraulic hose (all 4)
• $84 - Timing belt / tensioner.
• $40 - Water pump.
• $163 - Steering rack.
• $10 - Cabin air filter.
• ~$45 - Replacement cooling hoses
• $22 - Drive belt.
• $70 - Replacement CV axle
• $25 - Front brake pads (Rotora calipers).
• $56 - Replacement front rotors (For my Rotora big brake kit. Note, price has since increased)
• $27 -
  Aluminum hubcentric rings
  Aluminum hubcentric rings
  to use above BMW / Mini rotors on my Accord
• $17 - Rear brake pads.
• $12 - Rear caliper slide pins.
• $4 - Rear caliper caliper slide pin boots.
• $10 - Replacement exhaust pipe gaskets
• $32 - Rear sway bar end links.
• $30 - Front subframe mounts.
• $29 - Valve cover gasket.
• $25 - Intake manifold gasket.
• $170 - Alternator (Purchased locally from O'Reilly Auto Parts. Price has since increased)

$1367.00 - Total (before tax, and shipping and handling).



Junkyard parts / upgrades.Prices include sales tax and core exchange (when applicable). Prices have increased as of December 2021. (Note, not all of these are applicable to TL):

• $55.09 - Acura TL Aluminum front subframe (core returned)
• $76.59 - Accord Hybrid Aluminum Hood and hinges
• $64.13 - Accord Hybrid Aluminum front and rear bumper beams with guards
• $66.40 - Accord Hybrid Aluminum Rear knuckles (I returned 1 core)
• $20.75 - Accord Hybrid rear caliper brackets (11.1" rear rotors instead of 10.2")
• $33.98 - Accord Hybrid parking brake cables
• $65.69 - Accord Hybrid ABS/VSA modulator
• $16.45 - Accord Hybrid brake rotors
• $21.14 - Acura TL 2004-2006 6MT rear sway bar (04-06 6MT is same as 07-08 Type S)
• $193.43 - 4x Acura TL wheels (07-08 TL base, 17x8") - My Accord came with 17x6" wheels which did not clear the side of my Rotora calipers.
• $10.72 - Intake hose/tube (mine was cracked and I wanted replacement ASAP)
• $3.06 - Driver's side floormat (mine had hole worn through it)
• $3.90 - Rear view mirror (mine was all fouled up)
• $14.31 - Adjustable rear suspension arm (x2)
• $33.80 - Driver's door window regular (mine died).
• $53.90 - Rotora big brake kit 4-piston calipers - Very lucky junkyard score*
• $37.78 - Innovative Engine Mounts - Very lucky junkyard score*
• $133.09 - Fortune Auto Coilovers x4 - Very lucky junkyard score*

$904.21 - Total after tax


Items not included:
* All the parts that I've got in my BenseBuilt J-series / FK8 OEM close-ratio Frankenstein transmission.
* J37A2 engine that I pulled out of 2009 Acura RL last summer.
* Hundreds of hours of my time!!!


Lastly: This is most likely going to be one of the largest outliers out there of the 7g Accord / 3g TL builds. For the very lucky junkyard scores of mine, such as the Rotora big brake kit, fortune auto coilovers, and innovative mounts. Those 3 parts were purchased in two separate trips that were the two biggest scores that I made from many, many, many trips to multiple junkyards (covering 3 different states) over a span of 5+ years. It would be unrealistic for anyone to have the expectation that that is the norm.

TSX-S2000

I have over 307K miles on my 5AT TL which I used to commute daily with (about 110 miles round trip) until about two years ago when I started to work from home.

The biggest issue I've had with the car, other than the TSBs, has been with button light bulbs going out. Fluids are changed per schedules which includes a 3x3 flush for the transmission when it's time. The transmission does shift slow from Reverse to Drive and Drive to Reverse but gear changes are great. There was a little shudder going between 3rd and 4th but the 3x3 flushes have resolved that. The only other transmission issue I've had is that occasionally (very rarely) the transmission won't shift up from 3rd to 4th (I think) and that's when I noticed that the shift indicator isn't illuminated at all. I have to move the shifter to Sport and then back to Drive and the LED comes back on and the car shifts fine after that.

My dealership did say I have a small leak in the power steering pump so I have to get that replaced. The car does make a groan (or moan?) when I turn the wheel full-right when going slow through a parking lot. Other than that I have to say the car has been great and I still enjoy driving it.

And I enjoy driving it even more now that the clock somehow fixed itself this morning.
https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g.../#post16796560