mazdaspeed3God

Be sure to turn off VSC before launching.

I have driven many cars in the past and know quite a bit about how they work as far as launching and shifting goes.

vhtran

I bet you, you don't know how to launch an 18 wheeler.

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

I didn't think any of the acura 6MT drivers knew that. I think they all launch the car in 6th gear with VSC on!

alexSU

iTrader: (3)

and the one above lol ^

mazdaspeed3God

You should have gotten the Accord 6MT. It's got a lot more pull.

alexSU

iTrader: (3)

nova_G

lolol

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

Didn't want the 6MT. I didn't need the extra pull. The auto is better for daily driving especially where I live.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

OP, nice kills. Way to rep the 3G TL!

mazdaspeed3God

It really should be in this order in terms of racing from roll:

2nd gen hr350z > 2nd gen G35 6MT > de350z 6MT > 1st gen G35 6MT > TL Type-S 6MT > TL 6MT

if both drivers are equally good the guy in the G / Z will beat it. The gearing on the TL is still poor, even the 6MT's.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipv7glX9-ts

bb4_vtec

LOL!

REBB DA ENGINE MAN!

Sonnick

G35 6MT is not as fast as everyone thinks. It's quick no doubt, and ON PAR with the TL/Accord 6MT. MAYBE inching on a TL, just maybe. The TL-s will pull on a stock G35 from a roll. Stock for stock the G35/Z has better gearing. However, once mods are added, the TL has better gearing because they are slightly longer. The G35's gears are very short when you get into 3rd and especially 4th. They have a good amount of torque and could benefit from slightly longer gears than the TL, when in fact, it's just the opposite.

The TL/Accord actually have quite good gear ratios, not sure why you say they are poor.

Dave_B

I wish someone would post some slips for showing that the TL-S 6MT is significantly faster than the TL 6MT. Every mag test I've seen for the TL-S show 14.1-14.3@100mph. Tests for the TL 6MT I've seen show 14.2-14.4@99. Same goes for listed times on this site. I'm not seeing a signficant advantage for the TL-S. I see some pretty silly dyno claims, but it definitely doesn't show up on the 1/4 mile slips which are showing 98-101mph traps. I'll do admit, the TL-S is the superior car for overall performance, but from straightline acceleration standpoint, I not seeing data to support the claims.

Anyways, the gearing of the TL-S is quite deep. I'm not sure where everyone gets this idea that TL/TL-S is undergeared as they've got fractionally deeper gearings (overall ratios and considering tire diameter as well) than that of the 03/04 G 6MT and quite a bit deeper than that of the 05/06 "revup" (298hp/300hp) G/Z with an extended redline (7100rpms vs 6600rpms, same gears). G/Zs actually do benefit from additional gearing (3.9 final drive vs the OEM 3.5 final drive).

phee

iTrader: (5)

wrong for two reasons. the 2nd gen tl didnt come in a 6mt trim. and ive hit 164 in mine.

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

!!!

Dave_B

Speedometers are woefully inaccurate at speeds above 100mph as the error become exponential as speed increases. Your speedometer might have indicated 164mph, but I HIGHLY doubt that was the true speed. The car simply doesn't have enough power to overcome the wind resistance. Numerous mags have verified gross speedometer error among even supercars. Example: A 911TT says you're doing 205mph when in actuality, the car is only doing 192mph. Vipers, Vettes, Lambos, and Ferrai's are guility as well.

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

2nd gen TL-S's have hit 150+ stock

a 6 speed allows for a bit more push in the top end... plus a few mods is very reasonable to gain 10mph or more...

and if 205=192 (-13mph) difference.

exponentially... more like 6 or 7 mph off... so 164mph = 157mph according to that math..

and this can be completely snubbed by somebody just using a GPS or speed gun...

still impressive if you ask me.

Sonnick

I've only seen 101mph traps for the 6MT TL-s. You may be right tho, I'm not 100% sure. I've seen TL 6MTs trap 98-99ish stock, and the A-spec 100. I do know that 2mph in te 1/4 is nothing to sneeze at. When my car felt sh!tty, I ran 14.4 @ 97.x and the difference between that run and when I trapped 100.8 is HUGE. It feels like a different car. It may only be 1 car length difference in the 1320' but it feels much quicker.

According to dynos, the S puts down a good deal more whp than the 6MT base. I've only seen mag 1/4 times tho, so I'm not sure.

I don't see how the G35 could benefit from even shorter gearing?? It's short already!

Dave_B

I'm not debating the fact that the 3rd gen TL and 2nd TL-S can hit 150-154mph. However, it takes far more HP to gain 10mph in topend than you think. Try around 80whp. Why do you think it takes the Veyron over 1000hp to go 250mph?

Dave_B

For 1/4 mile racing, ideal is right around a 3.9. Lots of 6MT G and Z owners do 3.7-3.9 FD swaps. The turbo guys tend to swap in the 3.3 FD from the 5AT since the turbo isn't remotely dependant on torque multiplication since the turbo motor already makes lots of low and midrange torque.

winstrolvtec

On the contrary the TL models in 6MT are lighter than most G models (especially coupes) while riding on a lower overall diameter. Everyone knows that shorter gearing is a privilege in the 1/4 mile, short distances and especially good from a dead stop when coupled with AWD and RWD, but from a roll, a car like either 3G TL in 6MT, which has very little drivetrain loss, a flat torque band and fairly aggressive low gears to compensate for it's unexpected taller high gears, and again, short rolling diameter, can actually benefit from that taller gearing when driven properly to the very limit of it's power band. I know it's cliché but vtec really helps in this regard. The more load placed on it the better it responds.

The TL in a lot of cases actually has a better power to weight after you factor drivetrain losses. So it has more power to operate those taller gears initially and once it's already rolling it needs less revs for the same given mph and that is just how you compensate for taller high gears, use relatively shorter low gears than normal.



I think that says all there is to it, no need to look into it too much more. 2 mph in trap is only what is expected when it makes about 20 whp more and is evidence enough to suggest it is faster, not that much faster but it's not like it has 70 more hp or something. The other thing to consider is the TL 6MT was already at it's limit for front drive power when considering torque steer, traction and launching. Acura was left with little choice but to span out the gears, that's why it is taller in the TLS and I'm sure gas mileage had something to with it as well.

With the added torque it is still as drivable while being more tame and I can tell you that from owning both, the TLS 6MT will pull and pull by a large margin on the 6MT TL as soon as you get into fourth which is just after 90 mph and nearing the end of the 1/4 mile so it will not really show up as being faster in a standard drag race but it is superior from an acceleration standpoint just not where you would normally expect to see it. I know that to most that just seems strange but that is just the case and the limitations when engineering a high powered FWD vehicle.

As a side note and my take on it is it's fun to beat the issue around on which or who is faster when you look at these cars that happen to be extremely similar performing vehicles and a slim to nothing margin that one is truly faster than the other independent of driver really doesn't exist and it is way too close for the normal variations of outside factors to not contribute tremendously to the outcome.

Dave_B

I still don't quite understand. The TL 6MT does not have longer gearing compared to the G35. The overall gearing numbers for the 2004 TL 6MT pretty much match right up with the 2004 G35 6MT. In the first 5 gears, they're just about equal (within 2%). See for yourself in the attached test C&D test. One thing of interest is that the TL was quite fast to 60mph because it hooked up well, while the G spun badly. However by 120mph, the G was pulling away hard. Contrary to popular belief on this site, the G 6MT doesn't hook up well. IRS with a good bit of negative camber results in some pretty bad spin.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...cfd8937fef.pdf

Same goes for the TL-S. It has the same exact gear ratios as the TL 6MT. See for yourself. The difference here is the TL-S has a bit more low and midrange torque, however, some of this is negated by the car's additional heft.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...car_dp.pdf.pdf

winstrolvtec

The TL is always geared taller overall in it's mechanics, just how that works out to be when you factor for the rolling diameter when comparing it to other models, I can't say but more of my point leans in the direction of things are not as they seem, in relation to the many comments that the TL is geared poorly because of some of the misconceptions regarding taller gearing.

The final drives or axle drives has the G ending up shorter and the TL longer. The individual gears are the same in the TLS but it's different final drive makes it even taller than the TL. Shorter individual gears coupled with a taller final can compensate for having the normal overly tall setup that is often regarded as being poor. In the TL you have shorter low gears acting on a taller final in comparison to most G's and maybe z's, where you have taller low gears acting on a shorter final. Normally it would seem logical, at least in my understanding, that the TL's gearing would prove to be advantageous being that both cars are very similar in power and weigh but there is more that goes into it than just gearing alone so one would need to incorporate all the factors to determine which is actually faster.

Magazines outcomes often contradict what we see in real life and what is even posted here. By no means am I declaring anything a winner, almost nothing will ever be conclusive enough to determine that but when you look at the TL 6MT in the older comparo with more hp to weight and better rolling performance, the top speed accelerations doesn't make sense.

I say one thing, you can say another, the magazine publishes something else and the forum says a little bit of everything, that doesn't mean we have a conclusion. My reasoning is that it makes sense that outside of the normal basic everyday factors, there is far less room for error in either 6MT TL setup when shifting gears. You need to hit it's limit perfectly every time and doesn't mean you don't on other cars just that with overall taller gearing you need to extract every ounce of power possible and with shorter gearing, in the case of this comparison (not always) you can get away with a few from time to time.

I know first hand how poorly the older G models linked up, but on the other hand the TL didn't run so hot either.

Dave_B

The final drive is meaningless. It's the overall ratio that's important as that's what's driving the wheels. It doesn't matter if the final drive is a 1.0 or 4.5. It's the combination of the final drive and transmission ratios that turns the wheels. As for the tires, you're correct, it does impact overall gearing. However, the TL (25.5") and TL-S (25.5") both have shorter tires than 1st gen G35 (26.3") and especially the 2nd gen G35/G37 (26.7") which means the tires make for deeper gearing.

mazdaspeed3God

G35 3rd gear is very short? It's taller than the TL/ TL-S 6MT. 4th gear is actually a little shorter which is why G35's have the advantage at higher speeds. 5th gear is also shorter than the TL.

TL manual gear ratios are certainly better than the automatic, but compare to the G35 it isn't. And 2nd gen G35 6MT is even faster due to extra power and torque curve.

mazdaspeed3God

You guys like to claim how nice and quick your TL/TL-S/Accord 6MT's are but they do not rival G35/ 350z in the gearing department. Plus the G35/ 350z - especially the HR type - makes even more power at higher rpms. G35 and 350z's are also great in roll racing. DaveB summed it up well.

Sonnick

3rd gear in the G35 lasts until about 85mph where on the TL/Accord it's about 92. 4th gear is a bit shorter as well and 5th Idk. Maybe the numbers seem to make it 'taller,' but in terms of mph it covers, the TL/Accord 3rd gear is longer.

And yes, the TL/Accord 6MTs are quick. Not fast by any means, but definitely are nice and quick, especially for a luxury (TL) ish (Accord) DD. As Dave said, their gearing is very close to one another, so for you to say they don't rival is inaccurate. The HR is another story..that car holds its own and makes a lot of power. I don't know how they make 306 crank hp with their weight and trap 107+, but somehow they manage.

alexSU

iTrader: (3)

I smoked an auto 2006 G35 (4door) with 4 people in my car. The G35 only had the driver.

We raced at least 6 times from like 10/20/40mph rolls and up until 90mph. Every time I pulled almost a full car lenght, again with 4 people in my car.

Give the G35 a stick, take the people out of my car and we could have a decent race.

vhtran

Muahaha can't wait to get my new Infiniti M56xx ..... wait...Am I a little loud here?

nova_G

Man the G35 vs TL topic has beaten to death!

can't hold the excitement I see lol

alexSU

iTrader: (3)

sorry lol i was a little heated from an earlier debate but i got that out now. i have much respect for the G35

winstrolvtec

The gearing is pretty much the same after you factor for rolling diameter. Once rolling, the G's and Z's tend to need more power to operate their shorter gears and larger diameter for the same given mph. Therefore more power is not always more usable power and if you look up the whp figures vs weight, the TL vehicles tend to do a better job in most cases.

Rugel

Mazdaspeed3god <-troll!! I hate the g35 and 37 sedan but the coupe is very nice.

xmrgoodcatx

iTrader: (1)

I am not the kind of person to start a pissing match or get into arguments about who has the bigger penis, but I have raced an 03-04 Silver 350z lowered stock exhaust after market headlight bulbs(blue in color) and a Carbon/dark silver rev-up g35 coupe 6spd with cat back. I am not sure of mods except from what I heard and could see visually from the outside. I am also not one to start races or race on the highway because of the amount of cops on patrol in my area and anything over 90 is mandatory over night in jail at the discretion of the arresting officer, but I was curious to see the outcome since it was a 350z and a g35 and in both cases they started it. All races were from a 57-60 roll for those who want to be exact. I beat both by a good 2 car lengths and raced the 350z 3 times and the g35 twice.

By the middle of 3rd the 350z was at my rear quarter panel, at the top of third a 1/4 car and the end of 4 I couldn't tell but I saw the z's head lights well behind more then 2. I slowed down let the guy catch up and we did it again, same results all three times. In each instance the z would hit it first never honked or rolled down the window to see what's up. The guy wasn't bitter about it afterward's just went on his way.

As for the G35 I let him go till he his door was at my front bumper then I hit it by the time I was out of third the g's front was at my rear bumper and by the time I was out of 4 the same result as with the 350z. This guy wasn't happy since he wanted to impress me with his handling by weaving in and out of traffic like an idiot while blip-ping his throttle to show off his exhaust. I didn't follow but traffic cleared and I was next to him again and this time I didn't give him the jump and just took off, he did a fly by after it was over and continued driving aggressive. It didn't end the way he had hoped.

I am sure from a dig it could have ended differently and I respect 350z's and g35's. I wanted to buy an 07-08 350z with the VQHR but it was to expensive 7k more then I was willing to spend. Also in all races you have to take into account how well maintained the other car is. I have a 3g type-s 6spd and at the time I had a rv6 j-pipe and resonated test pipe and a K&N filter. I keep my car well maintained.

Just wanted to share my experience.

ineedmyfixofacura

iTrader: (2)

Woooow, this made me giggle like a school girl, I REALLY want a 3G Type-S

phee

iTrader: (5)

i wasnt staring at my speedo when i did it. my GPS was showing me the speed. florida turnpike on my way to miami.

i know how inaccurate the speedo can be. but in comparison to my GPS mine os accurate until 125 and then it gets 1 mph faster around then

phee

iTrader: (5)

its nothing to be impressed by. it was really stupid in hindsight. i barely speed now

phee

iTrader: (5)

lets not get into the physics of the 99 tl's drag coefficient as compared to the veyrons Cd. two different cars, two different engines, and two significantly different weights. not to mention that the veyron only needed 260 to reach 200 MPH. the rest of the hp was for the extra 50 mph

Dave_B

??? The Veyron has a .412 Cd. Hardly what you'd call a slippery shape. My G has a .26 Cd which is extremely low. It takes WAY more than 260whp to get a 4,500lb .412 Cd Veyron up to 200mph. It takes a lighter and more aerodynamic C6 ZR1 580whp to get to 204mph. I have no idea where you got that 260whp figure from.