kunalsTL04

I have an 04 TL 5AT with 6k miles on it and I am very concerned about my brakes! at 80mph-40mph with heavy braking my TL starts to SHAKE! and i am almost scared to touch the brakes until they cool down! The shaking stops after about 3 mins. But i feel scared to slam on the brakes incase of an emergency! I looked at the Brembo Brakes but i dont want to spend so much money on a new set of brakes. Cars like Jetta's, Toyota's, and even Hyundai's dont even have this problem! but why does my BRAND NEW TL such a problem!

Kunal

DMZ

This is a common problem with Acuras and Hondas. Frequently, it's caused by warped brake rotors which got that way because whoever installed the front wheels probably just let the air gun go until it stopped, overtightening the lug nuts. When wheels are installed, they absolutely MUST use either a torque rench or a 'torque stop' (a gadget that looks like a ratchet extension with a built-on socket) that stops the air gun when correct tightness is reached. On most Hondas and Acuras, it's 80 ft-lbs.

Bitium

First of all you do not have brembo brakes, only the 6mt has them.

If your steering wheel shakes while braking, most likely warped rotors and is very unlikely to be cause by over tightening the lug nuts.

You mention "it starts to shake and stops after about 3 mins". If it takes a while to stop, your pistons are getting stuck, well only one, because each caliper only has one. This is most likely a faulty caliper and of course it will be cover under warranty. Go to the dealer and have them check it out; let us know how it goes.

Only if you have a 250+ ft-lbs air gun then it would be possible to warp the rotor, even then is hard to do such a thing. Most air gun are less then 300 ft-lbs. The only way they even reach does number you have to keep using the gun after it has stop rotating the lug and using full impact, by this it increases the tension on every impact. If you stop after the first impacts you have probably reached 150 ft-lbs, not enough to do any damage. Yes Honda requires and recommends 80 ft-lbs.

BTW most rotors get warped by continuous heavy braking at high speed creating lots of heat and not allowing enough time for the rotors to cool down. This also happens progressively, not at any one time.....

Sherlock

My rotors have already warped in my dear 04tl, had them turned last week. My 98 Accord did it, my 2000 TL did it, and this one did it. It's a Honda custom. Sure it's cuz of hard driving and braking, no doubt, I know I do it. BUT.. you'd think Honda could find a way to work against it when they make such beautiful cars with engines that CRAVE spirited driving, and that means spirited braking too.

I read a while back about one way to help the brakes cool down and I try to do it, when coming up on a red light, stop a car length behind the next car or the light.. then slowly creep to the line over the time of the red light, that lets the rotors move so that the brake pads don't keep a hot spot on them while the rest cools down.

Also don't wash your car as soon as you come home from driving.. water on them will certainly do the trick.

They're smooth now after the turning, but now my tires are so f*cked that I could care less about the brakes.

iyfphoto

Sounds like warped rotors...IMO

Done a few really hard panic stops? Seems that lots of japanese cars, hondas in particular, are not too tolerant or hard stops. A friend of mine had an older accord that would warp the rotors in no time at all.

Maybe have a brake inspection done.

fishacura

First of all, The ACURA TL does not have a problem. Your car has a problem....just like my 2001 galant did.

Get your rotors machined and you'll be fine!!!

Pug

How are the Brembo's with warping?

TBone2004

I have a torque stick I use - what is the recommended setting for that - 80 ft-lbs like you have listed for the air gun or are the settings different?

Thanks.

ensley696

I had my rotors replaced on my 00 malibu because of warped rotors. I had the same symtoms your having. I could also feel the warp when I came to a light and lightly braked @ 1-3mph.

michael3314

I have the Brembo's and have not had a problem with warping. Dust I have, lots of it, but no warping. Damn thing will stop on a dime.

I have a question with turning the rotors. If you remove metal from them I would think they would get even hoter causing more warpage. Maybe a dumb question but I have to ask.

Dare_IL

Very good article on the myth of warped rotors.

http://www.ceramicbrakes.com/whitepa...otors_myth.htm

It also tells how to properly break in a new set of brakes.

GTFISH

Dare,
I was going to post the same thing.

Bitium

The ACURA TL does have this problem, since 99 TL's this problems has been a big pain to all TL/CL owners.

The car is just too heavy and powerful, for those brakes, this is the main reason they added the brembo's to the 6MT.

Acura knows about this problem and they tried to fix it on the 04 by adding a cooling passage on the front bumper, which seems like is not helping much or at least to your car.

I don't expect the 6MT to have warped rotors for a long time. The 2 piston on each side of the rotor will ensure the pads are placed firmly and flat on the rotor leaving less chance of warping.

This is another reason you should buy the 6MT.

VTEC=happiness

I noticed a problem with my brakes recently too...not shaking, but squeaking. I took the car to the dealer that quickly had the rotors resurfaced and the pads replaced. Call your dealer, they are apparently aware that the brakes have issues

iyfphoto

Point is, smaller and lighter rotors will not give you a smooth pedal feel as long as a thicker, heavier rotor will.

My F150 is very heavy and I drive it harder than most people drive their cars. It has huge rotors on the front and moderate sized rotors on the rear. 65000 miles and the pedal is still smooth. I'm on my second set of pads..front and rear.

My 1996 maxima SE had a bad vibration. The rear rotors needed to be turned. It also went through three sets of front rotors in 60000 miles.

Neither vehicle was treated differently during brake break ins...

My TL is fine, but it only has 300 miles on it. I'll have to keep an eye on it.

And the 4 piston calipers make absolutely no difference in "warping" or whatever you call it. 4 pistons simply transfer more force to the point of contact given the same brake pedal force. It is a performance thing.

And yes, turning a rotor and thus removing material will make the rotor more succeptible to distortion.

Aspector Gadget

Kunals,

First, I am experiencing a similar problem on my volkswagen. It may not be warped rotors, one or both of your front rotors could be highspotting. This means that due to uneven wear or other factors the surface of the rotor is no longer flat and can cause a shake in the steering wheel. I am saying you front rotors because you feel it in the steering wheel, which is connected to your front wheels.

Warped rotors have to be replaced, but if they are highspotted a shop can put them on a laeve (spelling?) and shave them down to be flat. This cuts metal off the face of the rotor, reducing the amount of life left in the rotors, but it beats buying new rotors.

You can try but I doubt Acura will replace them for free. Rotor get the most abuse of all the parts of the car. During hard breaking they can get so hot that they glow. They are subjected to sudden temperature changes, such as driving through a puddle. That said Acura will probably say that any damage is normal wear and tear. Mieneke and some other brake places will check them out for free and you can decide what to do from there.

Bitium

All I was traying to say is that the 4-piston calipers put more even pressure across the pad, possibly reducing the chances of warping and according to this quote from the article, it could mean less warping.

"In fact every case of "warped brake disc" that I have investigated, whether on a racing car or a street car, has turned out to be friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc. "

You don't know for a fact that a 4-piston caliper can't reduce the chances of warping, nor do I know for a fact that it can. So don't say it makes absolutely no difference in "warping"

iyfphoto

Actually I do...

After many years of experience with motorcycles. Most current models have 4 or 6 piston calipers. And they all experience the same "warping" effect. Regardless of pad, break in procedure, or whatever.

The only thing a four piston caliper will do is prompt you do drive more aggressively (just like putting on a supercharger should increase gas mileage, but it doesn't because you just keep you foot in the gas more) and you'll most likely just put more heat into the rotor as a result. Calipers, whether 2 or 4 piston, are rigid enough structures to evenly transfer pressure from the piston to the pad to the rotor.

One thing I don't know is if the brembo setup comes with different rotors. A heavier, more structurally sounds rotor design could be the difference. Anyone care to check that?

richard_1

i think someone told you already but it sounds like you need new rotors and possibly pads if you already worn them out... im searching for some brembo slotted and x drilled rotors but there is notthing out yet....


thanks
richard

fishacura

Not entirely true...I guess my spin is that to call it a problem is a misnomer. These things are SEVERLY regulated by the govt and they exceed all standards....might your pads wear sooner on a TL than on another make/model..sure. But if you get them checked/change like you should, your rotors will not wear any sooner than another car.

TLGator

Yet another first-time poster, isolated incident, single event, and the implication is that the '04 TL has a generalized major brake problem. Yeah, whatever. Whine whine whine about how a brand new car should never ever ever have a single problem - ever!

Take your car to your dealer, buddy, and get your problem fixed.

dcarlinf1

Before you buy cross-drilled rotors read this...

http://home.columbus.rr.com/trackbir...led_rotors.htm

iyfphoto

I agree Gator...

No offense to others, but what I have noticed here (as opposed to most motorcycle and photography forums) are quite a few people that know exactly $hit about cars and what makes them tick. :smackhead

I guess motorcycle racing and photography forums are populated by enthusiasts. This forum seems to be populated with owners...

iyfphoto

The reduction in rotating/unsprung weight improves acceleration. This is especially true on motorcycles (it also improves/quickens the steering). Have you noticed that no sportbikes have solid rotors anymore? HMMM...wonder why that is? Certainly not to make them stop worse.

deandorsey

EXACTLY!!!! the other car forums are not like this either--nor did this forum used to be

fishacura

WELL SAID. Hey TL....should we get some cheese for the whine???

fishacura

You're right. Probably because people who are into photography do it as a hobby. Or a motorcycle...more than just transportation.

People buy cars (many more so than by nice cameras or motorcycles) as a matter of transportation. I fall into this category but hope I am educated enough and don't whine enough that I can add some valuable posts from time to time. If not, tell me so and I'll go by a scion (I doubt they'll have a NG)

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

If you're so scared, what is a few hundred dollars to you if it means that it can buy you better braking (brembos). You're getting carried away.

KJSmitty

Kunal,
Like others have so eloquently mentioned,,, you "most likely" have a normal case of "warped" rotors. This is caused more so by braking technique than rotor failure. Now, for those of you that think it can't be because Honda's rotors are inferior,,, the fact remains: some cars get warped rotors and others don't - some get it faster than others etc. etc.. 9 times out of 10 its from heavy stop and go type of driving, other times its a fact that the brakes are generating an amount of heat that exceeds the metals capability to remain true.
Like Kunal, this is my first car out of 6 that I am experiencing brake shimmy from warped rotors, at <5000 miles no less... I can honestly say that I have driven this car like a granny and am very conscious of hard stops. I myself attribute this to, and I'll be gentle, a not-so-great brake rotor, cheap steel etc. I too will be looking for an aftermarket set when these are "really" in need of turning.

You guys really should see through some of these posts and realize all the individual is saying is that its the first time they have experienced this with a car.... They're bound to come across "scared/concerned"....
:think:

TLGator

I disagree. Consider the following hypothetical first post from a TL owner with this problem:

Folks,

I've been lurking on this forum for a while, but this is the first time I felt the need to post. I've got 6k miles on my '04 TL and now it has developed a problem that really concerns me. [Describes brake problem.] I was wondering if anyone here has any suggestions or can tell me what is going on? I will also be calling the dealer, but a lot of times I know there's better information in forums like this. Thanks for all replies, I'll be checking back later today and over the next few days. By the way, otherwise this car rocks, but this is really a frustrating thing to experience on such a new car. Help!

Now reread the actual original post:

See the difference? He doesn't ask for help or advice, just bitches about his problem. Doesn't mention if he's spoken with the dealer yet. Plus check out his signature:

TL 04 Blue, Camel Leather, Navi, 5AT

Nobody on this forum calls their Abyss Blue Pearl TL just "blue" and nobody bothers to specific "leather" interior because all the TL's have leather. Plus he talks about the Brembro brakes as if he thinks it's an option on the 5AT. And as of 9pm 5/20 he still has ONE post.

It sounds suspicious to me. I'm not saying he doesn't really have a TL, or that he doesn't really have this problem, but if he's for real, it seems like the wrong way to go about discussing a major problem with your car on a forum like this.

KJSmitty

Gator,
I'll admit, who knows if he's for real or not. If he is, it's true he could have worded his thread more appropriately. Though, given the age of some of our TL owners, communication skills are bound to be less than some would like... Thats not a slam folks but fact.

We'll see if Kunal comes back for more abuse, I mean information..

However, I do believe our forum is too "tough crowded" on many occasions.... But if their here spreading hate and discontent,,,, fire away :rocketwho

creamy-nuts

He's from Rhode Island. He must be harddrive under a alias :clown:

kunalsTL04

Wow guys I love the response from all of you. But i guess some of you feel that i am just some guy without a TL trying to make a comment! HAHa well u got me wrong then. I am a proud owner of a TL and I just hate G35's for their shitty interiors! now i am sure some of you can relate to this! I looked at the Maxima and saw the same shitty interior! I loved the technology in my TL and show off with the voice recognition feature all the friggin time with my buddies!
I am a college student who enjoys high speed and beatiful cars such as this!
But guess what i am still frustrated with my frigging brakes! I spoke to the dealer in RHODE ISLAND and the assholes booked me for an apointment for a week from now!
Now can u see how frustrated i am!

Maybe TLgator has better english than mine! but does he speak 6 other languages?

Now maybe u get the message or maybe u can write my little problems out for me since u are such a pro in writing messages in the forums (in ENGLISH)!


My TL is the car everyone looks at! nobody cares bout the Merc's or BMW's on campus but they just love my TL!'

I was wondering if anybody could give me advice on how much Brembo brakes cost to put on the 5AT TL? and if there you could refer me to a site with prices then i would really appreciate it.

Kunal

kunalsTL04

To sherlock and DMZ,

You guys had great comments on how this could have happened...

thank you very much for replying to my post.

I still feel some of you were acting very immature trying to re iterate what I had posted.

TLgator, yes i was referring to you!

Kunal

Bitium

It will cost you about $2400 for the front kit, it includes calipers, 13" rotors crossdrilled or slotted, brake lines.

http://www.autocarparts.com/cars/Acu...kes/ALL/Brembo

If you have question about them, astroboy has them...he is one of our admins.

OR

Got to big brake kits : http://www.rotora.com/cgi-local/Soft...html?E+scstore

This are cheaper about $1400.....the ones for the TL or CL will work with the 04.

If you bought the 6MT, thats $2k you don't have to spend later.

fishacura

Ahh....but TL did make some good points and he is well established here so he deserves some more buffer than others. You did leave a lot of info out on your first post which is all we were asking for....+

iyfphoto

Good luck on the brakes. If the rotors for the Brembos have the same part number from Acura (or wherever) I wouldn't bother. It'll just happen again. How many times could you just replace stock rotors and still spend less than $2400?

Like I said, my maxima used to do this constantly. The truck...never.

I only have 350 miles on my TL now...of course it is the wife's really :smackhead

KJSmitty

Kunal,
I would definitely have the dealer document and perform the first fix, though it will most likely involve turning the rotors or replacing them. Either way, afterwords, just be conscious of how you brake and use the advice above about braking techniques. Do what you can to mitigate the warpage until a good set of aftermarket rotors come along. If the Brembo route doesn't look good, I would think in a matter of months "Stillen" or some other source will have direct replacement aftermarket drilled and/or slotted rotors for $300 - $500 a pair.

Keep us posted

TLGator

Kunal,

Glad to hear that you're for real. My apologies for coming off strongly. Your post was very similar in style to LOTS of fake posts we get from people who NEVER return and who most likely do not own TLs, or if they do, only stopped by to bitch and not to discuss.

My assessment of you turned out to be wrong. I apologize. But my responses were hardly immature. Your original post, IMO, was. Go back and read it. You come off sounding like a whiny ten year old whose favorite toy just broke, not the well-rounded college student you evidently are. You didn't ask for advice, you didn't provide sufficent details for others to give you complete advice, and you didn't tell us whether you'd even tried to contact the dealer. You just complained.

You also made a statement a lot of us on this board are just tired of hearing. You said, "Jettas, Toyotas, and even Hyundais don't have this problem." We've heard so many people come along saying things like that, and it's frankly ridiculous. Rest assured that Jettas, Toyotas, and most certainly Hyundais can and do develop problems in the first few months of ownership. It's all just statistics.

Sorry for lecturing you, but as a college student you should be used to that.

Good luck getting your brake problem resolved.

kunalsTL04

TLgator,

Thank you very much for taking the time to read through my problems. I am very thankful for the advice and thus I have to admit that i came on very strongly when I wrote my last post. I guess i was surprised how people saw my post.

I have done more research now and thanks to all of you posting messages I have been able to pinpoint the problem.

I will post an update to what the dealer says after i see them on tuesday morning.

Hopefully they will replace my discs. But i am sure for them it would be convenient to just resurface the discs and give it back to me.

Now if this happens again, (warped discs) do u think they will look into it? And also do the dealers know that this is a major problem?


I know many dealers have different ways of handling their customers. I am hoping they will compensate for the inconvenience in some manner.

Anyways take care all of you and have a wonderful weekend....


Kunal