I am trying to make up my mind between the 04 mercedes c230k and the 04 tl. Same price point does anyone have any input.

 

same price point but different level.
If that's the case, I suggest you to get 4 KIAs. They are about the same price of 1 TL.

 

04TL destroys it in terms of options and performance for the same price..also its a lot roomier.

 

I drove the 2 back to back last night. The acura is deceptively fast, seats are wider and feels more luxurious. The Mercedes on paper would not appear to be as sporty, reality is oppostie. The engine power is way down on the MB, but it has a very flat torque curve with a good tranny. The MB is sporty and handles much better and the ride and feel is better than the Acura. The MB dowside is the stereo and size in my opinion. I think that I could live with the smaller engine, but still have not made up my mind. The MB dealer is letting me take the C230K sedan for the day.

 

I am in Germany driving a MB 220 currently. I like the feeling when the turbo kicks in. Thats it. There is no comparison...
If you buy a MB 230, status weighs heavy on your mind.

 

The 2004TL compares to the E-class.

The C-Class doesn't stand the comparaison well.

 

The C series sold here in the US is built in Mexico. The reliability of these vehicles has greatly diminished the MB rep...especially for that model. Do a search on Google and you should find ample reading about the C series problems, most notable, the electrical problems that never seem to get resolved and often leave people sitiing along side the road.

 

Too funny!!!!!!!!!

 

Well it does in Price with the C class with the C being more expensive 9 times out of 10, the E class is just simply in a higher category in price and status, despite the fact that the TL might have some features not avail on the E.

 

I laugh at people like that. If you think a MB 230 carries status, you're probably like the people I laugh at. I think it's silly to pay so much for so little to just get the MB badge. If you want status, go S class or E55 AMG

 

One thing we haven't discussed here is the level of service you get with the C-class versus the TL. If you think about it, paying more for some other brands (Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, MB...) gets you a higher level of service. Although Acura service is better than most, I would say it is still behind Lexus. This is somewhat subjective, since no two dealers are the same and some are without a doubt better than others. It has just been my experience that most Acura dealerships just don't have the smooch butt service that Lexus and MB usually has. Now with the current problems that the C-class has been having, you will need it.

I know that a dealer can ruin the overall experience of owning a nice car. I had a '96 Audi A4 and although it had a couple of minor problems, the dealer sucked and made owning the car a horrible experience for me. I dumped the A4 and got a Honda instead. I loved the car but hated the service that came (or didn't come) with it!

So there are other factors to consider when buying a car. The good thing about Acuras is that they are very reliable and visits to the dealer are usually minimal, so even if your dealer is mediocre, you can get by.

 

In what way does the TL compare to the E-Class?

 

Definitely TL. C230 Kompressor would be my last choice for a $30k sport sedan.

 

Agreeed.

My dealer will come pickup my car, work or home, leave me a loaner. And take it in for the repair.

Now that's pretty good service.

 

I'll go with Acura. With MB, you're paying a lot for the name, which is no longer as it used to be. Besides, with MB you have to factor in the price for all options, which is standard on TL!

A friend of mine is a German mechanical engineer. He says that since MB's merger with Chrysler its quality is slowly going down, while prices are going up. In his opinion, Lexus or Acura are more reliable and better value for your money.

 

I have to agree. When MB merged with Chrysler we all hoped that it would improve Chrysler, but unfortunately the opposite has happened.

It is a shame too as Chrysler has had some interesting and innovative designs, just their quality is bad.

Lexus is now top dog quality and service wise. I just wish they had a car I was interested in. The ES330 is just to Camery-esque for me. I tell you what, everyone I know that has a Lexus raves about the service.

Acura is building great cars, and if they brought their service up to or near that of Lexus, they would sell more of those cars.... my $.02.

 

Room and power, of COURSE. Ultimately, we all know that the E-class will be faster with the V8 versions.

Don't forget; the main application for Mercedes E-Class in Europe is for taxi. So do not inflate the status thing.

The natural competitor with the 4-cyl. Mercedes is the TSX.

 

The price on the TL and the c230k similarly equipted is almost dead on equal. MB. let me take the 230 home for the night to help me make up my mind and it is my garage now. If you all havent driven one, and are comapring the 2 on paper, you cant accurately make a reply to this post. The MB is an amazing car even if it is giving up around 75 h.p to the TL. This car handles amazingly, incredible stick and little body roll. The engine is very lively and early flat torque curve. The MB is much quiter and more solid feeling even though it is 500lbs lighter. That said, it is smaller and doesnt have as nice of a stereo or interior. I need to spend more time with the TL. I am also considerng the new higher horsepower 04 Cadillac CTS, another great suprise from behind the wheel. I just dont know if I can get over the f.w.d of the Acura. Thanks for all of your input.

 

Service is also a good consideration,
MB give you "Free" 4 years maintance, plus loaner.
Acura will give you a loaner (97 Integra) with 3hours+ service plus a 1+ month waiting period.

 

HAHA... This is too funny.... Sorry no pun intended..... Couple points....

1. NO C-Class is build in Mexico.... There are local-assembled C-Class and E-Class in other parts of the world, but not USA/Canada... All C/E/S/CL/SL/SLK are build in Germany......

2. MB didn't merged with Chrysler, MB took them out.... That's why you see "Daimler-Chrysler" instead of "Chrysler-Daimler".....

Ok, back to the topic..... It's hard to say whether C-Class is better than TL.... But one thing for sure, after driving both extensively...... Few Japanese cars I have driven matches German cars in terms of chassis/body rigidity and HWY speed stability..... Sure C-Class isn't as well equipped with TL nor as big as TL..... But whole car actually feels like a whole.... As if it's carved out of a solid granite......

As for service, MB service is head and shoulder above Acura's.... Maybe it's not so in USA since the market is much greater..... But Canadian MB service is just way beyond Acura's reach..... Also, warranty is much better on MBs, too.... 4-year free schedule maintainence, first year(or was that first 2 years... gonna have to double check on that)covers EVERYTHING!!!! Including wear items like light bulbs, wiper blades....etc.

IMHO, When you buy a MB, you are not simply buying for the name, but also the efforts they put in designing the car...... If you intend to keep the car for a long time(6 - 10 years at least), go with MB....

 

Nope.

And the TL owns the c230. The C230 is ovepriced and underpowered and underoptioned.

 

Teenager answer.

 

Well, I'm glad you convinced one person of this: yourself. Seriously, I just don't see these two cars put side by side anywhere.

With that said, go with the TL. The C-class is a really poor attempt at the segment owned by the 3-series.

 

Room and power? By that same token, the Honda Accord V-6 compares to the E-class since the Honda has even more horsepower, and just as much room. I don't think I agree with your logic. It is more credible to compare the E-Series to the RL.

In Europe the MB is for taxi? Not in London, but in Germany, because it is built there and therefore cheaper. Nothing stops you from using an MB for taxi here, of course, so long as you are prepared to use a $50,000 auto for taxi after checking with your psychiatrist. In Europe, the Jeep Cherokee is a premium auto.

 

Maxim is right about that POS Jeep Cherokee being a premium auto. But, coming from England, I can tell you why it is. It is because fuel in England (and in most of Europe) costs about $5-$6 a GALLON. The only people with enough money to pay for the fuel are rich people. It doesn't matter whether the car is crap to them, it is a status symbol because they can afford to run it and other people can't. Haha I saw about two Escalades in England this summer - the owners must be complete dumbasses - think $200 to go around 400 miles :lol1:
Also think about taking a jet plane - it would be cheaper.
:lol2:

I still think that the TL's best competitor is the 530i.

 

-Talking about psychiatric issues, it is all about perceiving.

I saw a comparo of a MB E-class vs Accord EX V6. Again, the testers were surprised to see how well the Accord defended itself despite the obvious lower level of luxury. They said that it would be their choice, their most reliable bet if the intent was to get 200000km with the least hassle. Funny how less can be more.


If you insist to consider cachet in addition to size and general specs
TSX = C Class = 3 series = 9-3
TL = E Class = 5 series = 9-5

Of course it is not a precise science and the RL is also a competitor to the last category, and the TL measures well to the E320 by spec and to the compact luxury car by price. Isn't that great?

 

The primary reason that I have purchased Acura, Lexus, Nissan instead of Mercedes, BMW, VW of the same price range is the reliability factor. My friends that owned new European vehicles are visiting their dealership frequently.

 

??? My Acura dealer will give me a loaner whenever I need to leave the car for service.

 

MBs in German has WAY more variants...... For instance, we do not get E220/E240 here in North America.... Many Desiel powered MBs are not available here either..... MBs are cheaper there, but also less equipped..... How about an S-Class w/out sunroof, door close assist, no Nav, basic power adjustment for seats, and eve cloth seats??? You can get an S-Class so equipped in Germany, but not in US/Canada......

 

Here's what JonDeutsh said on another thread. Makes a lot of sense:

Maxim,

Acura has said that they looked at the 530i when designing the new TL. That does NOT mean that they feel the new TL is a direct competitor.

In fact, Acura plays an interesting marketing strategy... they really don't like going head-to-head with the Germans. They find niches and inbetween segments to exploit with value and comfort.

Not a bad strategy, as it turns out, overall.

So, here's how I understand the TL's marketing strategy:

- Bring the average driver's age down 7-15 years from prior TL. People will pay for more gadgets if they're younger, and the auto mags will stop slamming us for Oldsmobilesque styling.
- Benchmark the 530i when designing, but compete with the 325i on price. This way, you really aren't competing directly with any Bimmer. Just conceptually, the value proposition is compelling because you're getting the size and HP of a $45k bimmer with the price of a 3.
- Be the understated, luxury alternative to the G35. Acura always appealed to the folks who enjoy understated beauty. They still own this segment when up against the G35.

But when it comes to BMW, truly, Acura isn't going to rip many folks away from BMW if they're already loyal. All they can really do is rip away customers from Inifitiy, Lexus, Saab, Cadillac, Mazda. IMHO.

Jon

 

Yeah. I agree
530i =E320 in term of lux and price point. People are in the range of 45k+ price range will not consider 35k price car. You do pay for the service, brand and material that used in the car. TL's feature can compete with high end model, but think about the material they used. Fake wood, manual driver seat adjustment on the passenger side, you will see where Acura cuts the corners.

 

Funny ppl think like that...Not pointing nose @ any one though... so don't get me wrong......But I visit Acura dealers for small fix/repair more frequent than with my 12-year-old 400SE......

There are always bad apples in the bunch..... Also, "long term ownership" differ by person.... Not sure about Nissan/Infiniti or Honda/Acura.... But I would say it w/out hestitation for Lexus.... Long-Term Ownership isn't any cheaper for LS400/LS430 compare to MB S430...... And to me, Long-Term means 8 - 10 years at least.......

 

I think visits to the dealer with problems dont have to do much with the brand when it comes to Bmw, Acura, Lexus and Mercedes, I think it has to do with driver characteristics and how the driver cares for the car. If you treat your car like piece of **** then it will act like a piece of ****. Just because you have a Bmw, Mercedes, Lexus or Acura doesnt mean you can skip oil changes and drive the **** out of it and still expect it to be reliabale.

On the level of luxury cars I think you are all one the same level when it comes to reliability its just of matter of who takes care of there car and who doesnt.

:lol: Unless you have Jaguar X-type Im sorry but that car is a complete piece of crap you cant expect ford to make a decent Jag at reasonable price. Read any review from Car and Driver to Edmunds and you will see what Im talking about. Plus my uncle had one and the car was rattling and shaking when he only had 4000 miles on it. Way to go Ford!!!!!

Heres a link for some people who had the same problems as my uncle:

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_36044.html

Car and Driver problems: Refered to the X-Type as Ford in Jags clothing.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=7073

 

Good comments. Many people don't realize that little things drivers do can either extend or shorten the life of a car. For example, I ALWAYS use the parking brake when I park the car. Why? Because the slightest incline will cause the vehicle to rest against the gears putting strain on the tranny. Likewise, I always come to a compete stop before shifting from reverse to forward gears, etc... I know some will disagree with me on this. But when I read that someone has has three transmissions replaced in their 03 TL, there has to be a common denominator somewhere and I find it difficult to believe that it's Acura.

 

I appreciate your comments on this post. I have spent much time behind the wheel of both and finalized my decision after immediate back to back test drives over the same roads. The acura is just not solid enough or quite enough for me. When going through small water puddles at around 30mph, I could hear the water through the doors in the acura, not a sound in the MB. Again, on paper the Acura is hands down winner, when driving the 2, the margin is closed by the little underpowered, under optioned merecedes. The supercharged 4 cylinder is a real hoot and the car was much easier to drive fast. If the Acura had rwd and more torque down low, the performance would be greatly imporved, but as is, even 90 hp increases over the Mercedes is not enough to make it sportier. A couple side notes. The TL demo had a squeeky dash and the seat heaters were wired backwards between driver and passenger. I hope you all enjoy your rides!

 

Come on, in most comparos in serious magazines, the C series has constantly been ranked among the worst. To add the insult to the injury, reliability of the C Class has not been very good.

 

I've never really looked at a C240 until this weekend when I had a chance to look one over (but didn't drive it). As for the look and feel of the car I would say it is well below other MB offerings and in my opinion below that of the TL.

Don't get me wrong, it was nice and above average, but not what I would expect from even the low end of the MB line. Reminded me of the early versions of the M class, plastics were below grade and the layout and design just looked cheap. Seats were okay but not exceptional. The origami folding/deploying cupholder was a hoot... completely useless if you carry more than a small coffee.

The mediocre interior coupled with spotty reliability, would make me stay away from this car. I would easily say a Volvo S60 and the new Saab 9-3 are better cars. I guess some folks just like that three point star...

 

I own a 2001 MB C320 (w/sport package). I have driven it for 2 years (20,000 miles). I have cursed the car for the numerous electrical problems it has had and the many times I have taken it to the shop.

That being said, after test driving the TL, I would say that the C320 (I realize that the 240 or 230 Kompressor is a different ballgame) is much more of a drivers car than the TL. The C320 handles better, is just as fast, if not faster, and is solid as a rock. Yes, it does not have the goodies of the TL and has been prone to issues. BUT the TL does not compare to my C320 in terms of driveability.

I also understand that my C320 sport came with a $42K sticker (my lease is $598 per mo. including tax with no money down for 36 months). I recently priced out the TL (auto, navi) for a 36 month lease and the dealer wanted $550 per month. I'm just not sure that that I would sacrifice the better driving C320 (yes, with less goodies) for an extra 50 bucks a month for the TL.

I do like the TL and thought it would be my next car. However after driving it, I found that, although it is a nice car, it just doesn't drive as well as the C320. I'm not sure what to do when my lease runs out in about 3 months!!!

 

I'll chime in. I have to admit, MB Kompressor has butter-smooth tranny and drives pretty darn well. I also like the turbo.

However, MB is not what it used to be, as many have said. There were times when MBs would live 10 or 20 or even 30 years and still run. C-Class is not one those MBs. Everyone knows how poor the reliability is on MBs these days, especially C-class and S-class. I find that pretty embarassing for the money you pay to get an MB. I could agree that MB probably provides a higher level of service than Acura, but then again, you expect an MB to be in the shop a lot more often than Acura.

C-class is a rather weak effort to try and attract younger buyers who THINK they can afford this car by its 25K or 27K price tag, but this car comes loaded with almost nothing. Everything's an extra, and by the time you are done loading up a 230, you might as well just go for 320. Once you set your eye on a loaded 320, the price baloons to the point that you might as well just go all-out for E-class, and then the bubble burts, and you are back to square one, realizing that you really can't afford this car in its honest image.

To me, the Acura is unbelievable deal with this new TL. It's got the power, it's "brand image" is just under the radar, it's packed for the money, it's got technology, it's got reliability. I'd prefer it over Lexus because Lexus cars, while impressively engineered and offering the best service in the industry, lack emotion and character. And, most importantly, they lack manual transmission.

Acura has been doing a very smart thing by going in between 3-series-type car and 5-series-type car. And they have been setting prices rather well. For some reason, I don't believe this brand is overpricing their cars as badly as MB or Lexus or BMW.

I've been shopping for cars for a while and drove 'em all in this price band. The new TL is impressively packed and impressively priced.

My only concern for buying this car is... how to protect it from getting stolen.

 

Corrections to mis-truths:

1) There are C class cars being sold in the US that were final assembled in Brazil. Don't know about Mexico, but I've seen Brazil stickers.

2) The "Kompresser" in the C230K is not a turbo. It's a supercharger. This significantly changes its characteristics from the turbo.

Food-for-thought:

It really doesn't matter how sweet they are to you at the service department if they can't ever fix your problems and are highly likely to leave collateral damage with or without fixing anything. In this regard, I'll take my Acura dealer over the dealer I bought our '99 SLK230 ten times a day and twenty for the weekend. They are the single most incompetent service operation I've ever had work on any of my vehicles. Multiply that by the propensity of the vehicles to need service and that alone puts me off the C230 vs. the TL.