Xpditor

I just got back from a road trip of 800 miles. On the way up, I got 29 mpg, on the way back 27 mpg. On the way back, I seldom drove under 80 mph. I had 1,000 miles when I started and I have a lead foot.

Brokedoc

I don't know how C/D get their MPG ratings but real-world J32 MPG usually averages mid to upper 20's depending on city/hwy mix. Real-world VQ MPGs are almost always upper teens to low 20's and if it's hooked up to AWD, almost never sees more than 20 MPG. Surf the Infiniti boards....low MPG is always a major gripe.

Aquineas

I drive 72 miles a day in my TL, 80 percent of it highway driving. My best week of this I average 26mpg. Now when it's 100 percent highway, I've gotten 29-30, again at 80mph average. But on average, it's 25-26. If I "get on it" a half-dozen times or so, it quickly drops to 22-23. Based on my calculations, the TL's MPG meter is pretty accurate. My 5 spd Altima on the other hand had a MPG calculator that was WAAAAAY off, but stock, I got 28 mpg on the same journey by calculation (the mpg meter actually showed 32-33). Compare the ratings on Edmunds for the Maxima and the TL, which for all intents are purposes, are similar in configuration, speed, horsepower, and weight.

What I've found with the TL is that you pay a higher penalty for flooring it than you do with the VQ, and that's amplified by the fact that you have to push into it a little more to get equivalent acceleration because of the torque difference. I think the issue with the G35 is probably one of gearing. I'd be real curious to know what the mileage is of the 3 series BMW..

Enforcer

trust me.. now i own both cars and i can tell that the Altima will kill the TL off the start, because of its higer torque (that's if you're good with manual) ... but both stock, it is very possible that tl will beat the altima in 1/4 mile...
but again... my TL seems weak compair to other TLs and i can't really tell now (i guess)

Teh Jatt

dude trust me ok.... i know this guy who owns altima.... we didnt do only 1 run, we did several.... i was close race though but he kept losing, he wasn't taht far behind, he was right next to me.

Teh Jatt

oh and enforcer, if u wnat to clear things between altima and tl, come to fresno and we'll do it some where
...........














i mean race ur altima with my tl..... not this

Aquineas

Assuming equal drivers, an Altima would kill a TL off the line, assuming you were comparing stick to stick vs auto to auto. It's all about power-to-weight ratio. I think at the track the TL would breathe better up top, in stock vs. stock form anyway, because Nissan has gone out of their way to constrict the breathing on the Altima.

I saw someone here say their manual TL with CAI was dynoing at 233, and that's pretty much what a modded Altima with exhaust and CAI will dyno at as well, only with appreciably more torque. Throw in the fact that the Altima weighs 250 pounds less, and well....

That being said, I love my TL, and I sold my Altima for a reason because I, like most of the people here, fell in love with the TL's interior. I do miss the VQ though.

3PUTT

comparing a 3.2L to a 3.5L as far as gas mileage is not worth the energy. the difference in displacement alone explains why the altima/maxima/G35 uses more dinosaur juice.

Aquineas

But that's just it. The Maxima and the Altima do not use more fuel. What's your next theory?

As usual, this (like most boards) has proved to be hopelessly biased. Heaven forbid someone makes a good comment about a car other than a Honda or Acura. Conversely, heaven forbid someone makes a comment about something Acura could have done better, that someone else does do better.

I'd love to find a car board where people were just objective about cars, and not so hung up on brand-worship. I want to be able to talk objectively about cars, their relative strengths and weaknesses, manufacturer be-damned. Having owned both, I want to be able to say "Nissan has crappier interiors than Honda" (which everyone seems to agree with), and also be able to say "Having owned both, I think Nissan made better tradeoffs in the torque, displacement, and hp equation than Honda", and not hurt anyone's feelings.

2K2SilverTL-S

Enforcer,

Wait till the TL gets broken in. When I first got my 04 TL, I was shocked because my TL Type S would MURDER it in any kind of race (off the line or from a roll). Now that I have 4000 miles on the 04, this thing has become a rocket. I honestly cannot believe how much faster the 04 got after a hard break in. Give it some time....i promise you will change your mind on what's faster.

Also, the 4-speed auto in the altima kills that car. My cousin has an 02 3.5 Auto, and I've raced him in my TL-S numerous times. From my experience, once he shifts from 1st-2nd at 40 mph, I start walking him all the way to 110 mph. He doesnt even try racing me anymore.

donkeykang

Did you use L to SS or just floor it and leave it?

Teh Jatt

^ i used SS and vsa was on but then @ last race, VSA was off.

missmyprelude

I don't think you're hurting anyone's feelings, it's just that many of us don't agree with you. This is an Acura forum, so expect bias.

I personally am sick of hearing about the torque in the VQ on this board. Yes, it has more torque. No, I don't find it to be substantial. The TL is plenty torquey and plenty fast for my likings (and most of the folks here would probably agree). In fact, I have had several chances of owning a Nissan in the past few years, but opted not to because I liked other cars better. I could give a rats ass about the torque, displacement, etc. I'm pretty happy with how the TL gets me around and I'm happy with how fast it can get me there if I want it to.

Anyway, like I said, this is an Acura forum - let's focus on the TL.

EZZ

210/270 = 22.3% drivetrain loss I've never seen such a high drivetrain loss on a front wheel drive. Me thinks Acura has retarded the timing a little too much on the tranny to prevent it from exploding

F23A4

Yup!!

MrGQDieselNY

I dont care if the Altima came stock with 500HP that thing is friggen goofy looking ( much better than the old Altima model though) and looks like a girls car, theres no comparison.. .so if someone wants to sacrafice looks for a few extra HP then so be it, I will stick to the Acura and have pride in ownership and not a car that is a **** hair short of looking like a girls car..... I see so many people trying to do up their Altimas, it just looks like the car is trying to hard to look good.. I saw an Altima today with chrome rims, all I did was say "ewww", that car just has no business being anything other than stock.... sorry if I offend any Altima owners, thats just my opinion.

Aquineas

Why, because it's not relevant? Or because it's not what you want to hear? I noticed you didn't complain about the remarks I made about Nissans having crappy interiors, which, for all intents and purposes, they do. Yet by your implication, it's not entirely "relevant" on an Acura board, yet no protest from you on that one?
And you would know because you've driven them both, right? Because if youi had actually driven them both, then you would know that it is substantial. There's a very noticable difference. In any case, if you don't want to read about the torque on the VQ, then my suggestion to you is to avoid reading posts where the poster very clearly states early on that he's comparing the TL to another car. This is how the original post started:
That should let you a comparison was coming. In any case, the original post was talking about the dyno of two cars on the same dyno, on the same day. The VQ torque discussion came up because it's directly comparable. Someone then felt it was a good idea to bring up fuel economy, and having owned both products, and being a person who supports truth rather than brand hype, I disagreed, and even offered evidence to support my position (from my own anecdotal experience as well as Edmund's references)
I'm not sure how this is at all relevant to the discussion of the TL dyno, but okay, I'll play along. My first car was a Honda Prelude. I loved it. I've also owned two Maximas, a Mustang Cobra, a modded Alti, and of course, my TL.
I agree, we should focus on the TL. And a dyno about the TL is entirely relevant.

Aquineas

Dude, you couldn't possibly offend me with your opinion. Where I usually take issue is when people pass off opinions as facts. Above all else, I seek truth, and that rings true with my love for automobiles. In any case, the point I was making is that the TL didn't compare favorably to another car on the same dyno on the same day, and it was then that someone felt the need to divert the discussion to other deficiencies, whether real or concocted.

I've said this on other boards, but Acura, Nissan, Ford, Chevy do not get emotionally distraught if someone points out your personal weaknesses. They're not sitting around the boardroom debating who's a better basketball player, you or your buddy. Why do we get so distraught when someone points out a weakness in one of their products? They're companies who don't personally care about us. They are businesses out to make money, not family members.

mio

wot is "DYNO"? Why dose the tl only got 189 hp? It should get 270 hp, right?

Aquineas

Dyno is a means of measuring engine power, though not all dynos are dynometers. For example, the popular "dynojet" is really measures the ability of a car to overcome resistance. I'm sure one of the Mechanical engineers can give you a better description.

In any case, what's being measured is the hp to to the wheels, not at the crank (which is what the marketing people sell you on).

missmyprelude

Because I, like most others, bought a TL because we liked the TL. The fact that the VQ has more torque was known, as was the fact that Nissan has crappy interiors. Who cares? Lots of engines have more torque, we just happened to have bought TLs.

Yes, I've driven them both. No, I didn't find it "substantial". Substantial to me is the difference in torque between the TL and my previous car (a Prelude). Noticeable does not equal substantial. By the way, I loved the engine in the Prelude and it had fairly low torque. Like I said, who cares?

Agreed. I was merely responding to your fit about people being biased here.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

300cc alone is not going to make a night and day difference in gas mileage.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

The torque difference between the J32 and the VQ is quite noticable for those wondering.

The J32 in the 3rd gen TL only makes about 185 at the wheels in stock trim.

The VQ shown here makes over 200 at the wheels. No matter how you slice it, that is a big torque differnece, especially when that much power is available at that rpm.

SouthernBoy

Hey there ENFORCER, how the heck are you??!!??

I, too, came from Altimas.net having owned an '02 SE. Remember.. I was in the first group of six shipped Frankencar/Apexi intakes in August of '02. I did a lot of writing about driving a manual tranny correctly and asked you about your Mossy catback system before getting one myself.

Anyway, remember tomb? He had his '02 SE dynoed at 244 HP and 244 lb/ft of torque to the wheels. If you recall his car, it had the Burke intake with Apexi (he liked my Frankencar/Apexi but Frankencar's customer service is poor). He also had a UDP by UR, a Greddy catback, timing bumped 3 degrees, hesitation fixed, and HotShot headers. I can attest to the fact that his car seriously cranked.

My '02 SE would kill my TL, but my TL has fantastic throttle response, so I don't feel the need to nail the thing that often. I would like more cubic inches in the engine to produce more torque, but it is one sweet car, so I can live with it.

You notice? There's no MAF to go out!

mhooven

22.3% (actually 22.2%) drivetrain loss is within the 20 - 25% loss you would expect for an automatic transmission. Sounds right to me.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

2nd Gen CL/TL's w/ automatic transmissions experience 25% drivetrain loss.

"Me thinks" you haven't seen many J32 dynos

EZZ

I thought most auto trannies only lose around 20%. Acura is usually pretty efficient in terms of drivetrain...well at least their manuals are. I've seen dynos but usually, they are the 6-speeds (cls). Anyone know if the RL will get the same tranny?

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

It is true that FWD will be more efficient than RWD.

But the automatic in the CL/TL will lose 25%

The manual will loose 15%

EZZ

That is a HUGE difference between the two. I've always thought that RWD loses more but I'm beginning to think that RWD automatic trannies tend to lose less than FWD auto trannies. Take the G35 and 330...I believe both of the auto trannies lose around 20%, however, the G35 manual loses 18% which is signficantly more than the Acura's 15%. I wonder if the large loss is due to design limitations on having the tranny in the front vs the rear of the car (i bet it doesn't help any). I would think that inherently, if both transmission were exactly the same, fwd would lose less due to less power being robbed from the driveshaft.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Yes you are correct, the driveshaft of a RWD powerplant will rob more power than the same poweplant in a FWD system.

Enforcer

each to his own...but here is some picture of mine (and i didn't try hard)









I own both TL and Altima... and sorry to say this, but my TL looks NOTHING like my altima (at least not yet).. so if you say ewww to this altima, then .... nevermind

I donno what kind of girl you date, but I wouldn't date a girl who would drive a car like my altima. a girl car!!! give me a break man.!! that would be a very MANLY girl.

sorry for hijacking this thread

Aegir

Uhm, it's your thread so hijack away!

Some may like your car and some may not, but most probably wish girls would pop out of their trunk like that!

Teh Jatt

i like ur altima man

PoochaKannInc

I wish my TL had that option! Styling is subjective after all. Just cuz someone doesn't like my car, that does not mean its ugly (it just means they have no taste... ...j/k).

Good looking car Enforcer. I've seen it a few times on altimas.net.

Aquineas

:chuckle"

Enforcer don't me, I kind of liked it better before you got the lower grille piece in the front.. How many miles do you have on it now btw?

Enforcer

hey man... yeah, I remeber you... so you got both TL and altima now?
anyways, about that dyno.. i don't remember that dyno... maybe i missed it when he posted it... any link?
and I didn't know that TL didn't have MAF...!! then how does it work.... well less shit to break down then ... haha

F23A4

Nice Alti, dude!! I like that CTS-V-look to it.

ONAGER

Just to put the displacement = crappy gas mileage to rest. LS1 V8 (now the LS2), nuff said...

chevys v8 are known around the industry as dinosaur engines, were talking push rods and large displacements... but you know what? they produce torque curves that make VQs cry, hp #s that put all stock hondas to shame, are fairly clean, and in cars like the corvette are capable of getting great gas mileage 19 city 28 hwy (and you can bank on those #s as you dont have to beat the car to get it moving). being that they are nearly twice the displacement many would assume there gas hawgs, however they are not.

displacement means NOTHING in todays fuel efficency wars (especially with todays on demand displacement technology)

i love my acura, the hp per liter 80hp+ shows the awsome enginneering involved. personally i drove the maxima and the altima, and a good freind owns an 03 maxima in day to day driving yes you notice the torque difference (as thats when you would feel it). but in a race, where you keep the tl on "the cam" its less noticable, if at all. most dynos i have seen show the tl putting down around 190 lbs (at the wheels), yes less then the vq, but so close i dont think you would notice it (again in a race environment). either way i choose the tl because of the interior, the maximas door inserts looked cheap... im happy with my choice

F23A4

...no question, . Well stated. (even the part about the Maxima's door inserts.)

ONAGER

didnt mean to call the maxima out... but to be honest, thats the biggest reason im not driving one today.... my mom owned a 2001 pathfinder with the 3.5 VQ (seemed hoarse in the upper rpm, bottom end ruled the day) i just couldnt see paying that kinda money for the interior of that car.... oh and under hard acceleration the wheel liked to dance around in my hand more so then the tl (the only major downfall of torque in a fwd car)