spaceshark

Greetings -
I love my Acura TL Type S - it's been a great car. It's got 45,000 miles. No problems at all I got the A1 service light - and the car told me it was time for oil and tires.

Cool... I set aside a few hundred dollars and made an appointment at Rick Case here in FLA.

When I got there I almost fell on the floor - the service rep told me:

"great car... but you'll need a lot besides oil and tires and it adds up quick:"

Throttle plate cleaner $79.99
Complete Induction Service - $179.99
Remove intake and Clean EGR Passages $249.99 (I've run nothing but high test)
Flush and replace brake fluid - $50.50

Total bill $515 in Labor (it was in for a total of 90 minutes (60 min work / 30 min for a bad wash) - $119 in parts etc etc -- $ 709.33 total - but I had some points and it was a grand total of $667.43...

It's a great car - and I want to feel good about it... so I went for it... did I do the right thing?

Thanks,
SpaceShark

Ken1997TL

Thats very steep. Why did they clean the EGR? Did you have a check engine light on?

I've paid $650 for a timing belt job and water pump included.

csmeance

wow, did you agree to those servicing? If not then they cannot charge you because you did not agree to them. Its like me coming to your house, mowing your lawn and demanding you pay me when you never asked.

The first 3 are total BS and can be done at home with some brake cleaner and some fuel cleaner. The last item, brake flush, was actually pretty decently priced.

geekybiker

They saw you coming a mile away it seems. Its not exactly uncommon for dealers to tell you that you need unnecessary services. If its working and not in the service schedule, you can generally safely pass on it.

stvtec

iTrader: (2)

That's poppycock.

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

you got screwed....

Throttle plate cleaner $79.99
Complete Induction Service - $179.99
Remove intake and Clean EGR Passages $249.99 (I've run nothing but high test)

^ like said above, these can be done with brake cleaner and some fuel cleaner for $20 buck and a few beers.

ez12a

dang 50 for a brake fluid change? a tall bottle of fluid is no more than 10 bucks. sitting and pumping fluid isnt too hard either.

murph145

my dealer wanted to charge me $160 to flush brake fluid, $160 for a tranny oil change and $90 for new air cabin filter.... so far i did the air cabin filter and tranny oil myself for less than $50 I will do the brake fluid over the summer myself as well...

av2600

iTrader: (1)

did they give you a bottle of lube when you picked up your car? Or at least a nice dress and some lipstick?

Your SA was right about one thing.... great car!

EATSLEEPRACE

iTrader: (1)

^^^looks like they banged you with no lube!.....you could have done most of it with breake cleaner.............

spaceshark

LOL... no - but that's exactly how it felt!!!!! :-) ugh.

Hey thanks for everyone's reply. Seems like some letters are in order to Rick Case and the service advisor.

If I didn't like the car so much - I would have taken a pass for sure.

So if I follow the warranty - I'm in good shape?

I will NOT be back to Rick Case -- you always sheer the sheep - but you can only slaughter it once.

Thanks again,

icy2

Man that is steep. When I worked at the Honda dealership I did alot of the egr port cleaning on the j series motors, but that that only after the check engine light came on and Honda covered it because it was a known problem from the factory. Im glad that I the first time that I brought my TL the dealer they didn't bend me over and I got great service. Better luck at another dealer

spaceshark

No engine light was on.

Bearcat94

If they're done at all. None of that is in the Owners Manual for maint afaik. IOW - it's not required or expected.



OP, sorry to say, you were robbed.

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

^LMAO at your avatar

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Spaceshark, call another dealer and see what they would charge for the exact same thing. Then take it to Rick Case and see what happens.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

none of that is routine except your oil change and maybe your brake fluid. you got had. sorry. you actually agreed to all of that?

EagleEye

Good sport! The bang w/o lube got my rolling on the floor.

Bearcat94

Basically yes. A couple of those things aren't necessarily bad or anything. They are just "above and beyond" normal maint. AND a TL with normal maint will run just fine for a LONG time.


They're all "out to get you". My '02 failed annual inspection for tires (true) and a leaking front shock (also true). The "recommeded" maint items were over $2200.




I got what needed to be done for ~$900 (~$700 of that in tires) plus some DIY time. Took it back and passed inspection 2 days later.

coykiam

I paid $1,000 for a broken timing belt but the dealer called it "seized cam" and acura corporate called it "good will."

eaglegreen48

throttle cleaning, cleaning EGR, induction service nonsense! I would have told them to forget it and gone with the brake fluid flush maybe and left with
$600 in my pocket.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Rick Case...sucks...bottom line...Honda and Acura both..they are too big for their britches and treat people like sh*t. At least that's my experience...last time I called there to test drive a CRZ and they lured me in and assured me they had a manual...I get there...there are like 15 salespeople that ignore me...the guy I remember buying from 6 years ago blows me off and they say they can't find the manual and give me an auto to try. WTF?

Never again...and for service don't even get me started. That quote right there is why I really should consider opening my own shop. I couldn't fathom charging you that for my time and NONE of them are rocket science...a bottle of brake fluid, 2 bottles of seafoam (1 regular one deep creep) and you're good to go.

spaceshark

I just sent the following note to the team over at Rick Case Acura for suspect "service".

Who else can I write as I pursue this? What else can I do?

For the past year, since I moved to Ft. Lauderdale, I've been coming to Rick Case Acura for service work. After yesterday, I won't be back. I drive a 2008 Acura TL Type S with 45,000 miles. It is one of the best cars I've ever driven, and I believe the lines are classic and even better than the new models. I drove a BMW before this car. Earlier this week, the service light came on. Because I care about the car, I made an appointment at Rick Case. The automated message said I needed an oil and tire rotation.

When I arrived (after a brief wait in the soon to be crowded lounge) I met with a service advisor by the name of Brad Hatfield.

He said, your car is in pretty good shape "it needs a lot more than oil and it adds up quick."

Throttle plate cleaner $79.99
Complete Induction Service - $179.99
Remove intake and Clean EGR Passages $249.99 (I've run nothing but high test)
He recommended other things - and the tires / oil as well....

The total came to $650

I asked - "is this part of the scheduled service?"

"No" he said. "It's just to keep your car running well."

Instantly - looking at his face - I detected I was being taken, and that's exactly what I said, "I know a rip off when I see one."

"it's not," he said.. and then he went into all the reasons why I needed these things...

I thought here's a service advisor at a respected dealership - if he says I need these things, I must need them. As I mentioned at the beginning of this note - I want to take care of this car.

1 hour later (after the service) and 20 minutes for an extremely bad wash (It was so bad I had to rewash the car), the final bill came to $667.43 (515.36 labor / 119.32 parts)

The first indication that something was fishy - my car was in for little more than an hour, and some labor charges on my invoice said 2 hours of labor. The second indication was that Brad, the service advisor, shook my had at least 4 times.

Driving home - the car felt no different - and the feeling that you all had taken me to the cleaners would not go away (it is worse this morning).

When I got home I posted the question "$667.43 for 'routine service'?" on an Acura social media site. Within a very short time - I had 22 replies. Not one said "Rick Case took care of you."

Here's a sample:

"Thats very steep. Why did they clean the EGR? Did you have a check engine light on?" (No engine light was on.)
"The first 3 are total BS and can be done at home with some brake cleaner and some fuel cleaner."
"They saw you coming a mile away it seems. Its not exactly uncommon for dealers to tell you that you need unnecessary services. If its working and not in the service schedule, you can generally safely pass on it."
"you got screwed.... these can be done with brake cleaner and some fuel cleaner for $20 buck and a few beers."
"did they give you a bottle of lube when you picked up your car? Or at least a nice dress and some lipstick?"
"looks like they banged you with no lube!.....you could have done most of it with breake cleaner............."
"Man that is steep. When I worked at the Honda dealership I did alot of the egr port cleaning on the j series motors, but that that only after the check engine light came on.... I'm glad that I the first time that I brought my TL the dealer they didn't bend me over and I got great service. Better luck at another dealer"
"If they're done at all. None of that is in the Owners Manual for maint afaik. IOW - it's not required or expected. OP, sorry to say, you were robbed."
"None of that is routine except your oil change and maybe your brake fluid. you got had. sorry. you actually agreed to all of that?"
"'above and beyond' normal maint. AND a TL with normal maint will run just fine for a LONG time."
"throttle cleaning, cleaning EGR, induction service nonsense! I would have told them to forget it"
"Rick Case...sucks...bottom line..."

Everything confirmed my gut feeling at the start - I was about to be ripped off with service charged that were not required or needed.

Here are my questions:

Why was I recommended things that aren't usually recommended? Was Brad trying to meet a quota for service?

Is it the policy of Rick Case Acura to commission service advisors on what they recommend?

Why was I targeted?

My next steps are fairly simple. I expect a phone call today from Rick Case Acura to fully explain what happened.

In the meantime, I'm working on letters to the Ft. Lauderdale Better Business Bureau, The Sunrise Better Business Bureau, J.D. Powers, Honda North America and Acura North America.

I will also continue to track down and post to as many Social Media sites as I can find online to see if this has happened to other people at Rick Case.

Bottom line: fool me once, shame on you. I now know what type of dealership / service center you are - and to avoid you in the future.

I look forward to hearing from you or a member of your team,

coykiam

Mods might merge this with the original thread...

OP to answer your question and you probably dont want to hear this but its a dealer thing. It does not matter what manufacturer or dealer they will always try to get $$$ from the customer. You can try writing letters and you might get a little something back but I doubt you will get your $$$ back or have that satisfaction feeling. Thats why everyone calls them "stealership." Bottom line it is what it is, try calling corporate. I did when I had a problem with mine but for some reason even corporate could not do anything. They said to just call back the dealer and talk to them, And you know how hard that is. Not to mention the frustration of listening to their tone being a douche. Lets all face it they are a pro at this since they sell cars everyday and we dont buy cars everyday so they will always have the upper hand. Good luck hope you get something back...atleast an Acura mug or something I've head some members got those from their stealerships.

BuffBakerGA

iTrader: (2)

This exact scenario is the reason why I do everything myself... At little time and a little education here on Azine and you can it all yourself. Even if I have a problem with the car and have to take it in, I still research it so when I go into the dealer I've already narrowed it down to a couple of problems. That way I can talk shop with the service manager/technician and know exactly what is going on with my car and hopefully not get taken... Live and learn!

flyromeo3

"-Bottom line: fool me once, shame on you. I now know what type of dealership / service center you are - and to avoid you in the future.-"

honestly, if you took your car to the stealership to get an oil change and rotate tires. Than im not surprised that they "up sold " you other unnecessary services.

Bearcat94

OP I hope you get some satisfaction, but don't count on it.


Out of all you wrote, the bit below is something you might be able to hang your hat on.


My guess is that they're shop labor rate is ~$95 - $105 per hour. IOW, you are charged 5 hours labor. You say your car was only in for about an hour. If you can prove that, you might have something.

If you can prove that, I'd recommend contacting the FL Attorney General's Office for Consumer Affairs/Fraud. They should be able to tell you if it's legal to sell "flat rate" service but still charge "labor" and "parts" separetly. Especially when the reported labor is obviously grossly inflated.

spaceshark

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
So the labor time was -- time in 7:48 am / time out 9:17 am
So - 1 hour 29 minutes
Labor was rated at $125 an hour.
Same mechanic with, license number #00000
Labor amount - $515.36 -- $315 more than the $200 I should have been charged?

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately, this was just another life lesson. It is very important not to relinquish control when visiting a stealership. You stated that the 'the car told me it was time for oil and tires'. That is the limit of scope you should of stayed within. The service advisors are trained to 'upsell' when people come in for service. Sadly, in your case, they got the best of you.

I took my CL-S6 there for the Air bag recall, and had them check the 'Occupant Position Detection System' within the SRS system and they gave me the 'Stink Eye' when I declined the Free Multi-Point Inspection and car wash.

I also wrote on the 'workorder' and directly stated to the SA that 'the car is not to be taken off the lot for test drives without the owner present'. This negates the 'test drive' right you sign away under the 'Authorization of Repairs' section. That's the clause right under the EXCLUSION OF WARRANTIES section at the bottom left of the paperwork (workorder) they have you sign before they take your baby into the service bay.

I have a supercharger on my car and do not want any strange 'lot lizards' hot shoeing the car up and down 441.

To say the least, they kept the ordered work within the scope that I authorized and I was out of there in about ninety minutes.

It serves as a good baseline to follow.

dr_shoxer

In my opinion, this is the only thing that will hold any water when arguing with the dealer. I've worked for them for a few years, and know how cunning the service advisors can be.

Bearcat94

I would defenitly make an issue about being charged 4-hours labor when the car was only there for an hour and 30 minutes.

Again, call the FL AG consumer complaints/fraud and ask you have a legitimate concern to file a claim/report.


Nothing will get a business off it's ass much faster than an inquiry by the state AG office.

spaceshark

Excellent - and thank you again for all of your help. The GM of the dealership has sent me an email - along with Rick Case.

Is there anything else I should know as I prepare to talk with them?

av2600

iTrader: (1)

Good luck, keep us updated!

lucnex

iTrader: (3)

post the letter....dont leave us hanging!

spaceshark

still waiting by email and phone -- the moment they contact me, I'll let you know.

stvtec

iTrader: (2)

What about this one though?

"The GM of the dealership has sent me an email - along with Rick Case."

We want to see it!

spaceshark

They were notes to simply say "not received, they'd be in touch with me this afternoon"

GuyWithNoLife

Keep in mind 15-30 minutes was probably them 'washing' your car.

I would try to contact the General Manager of the store, and if you get no resolution, try their corporate office. A GM should understand why you brought the issue directly to them and not the Service Manager (since it's the Service Manager running his department, of course he's going to encourage the advisors to upsell service).

Hopefully the GM can do something for you. I imagine they will tell you that because you agreed to the services provided, they can't just give you a full refund and provide them for free, but they should definitely reimburse the cost of the extra labor. I could see them offering a free oil change or something to compensate for your troubles (although personally I wouldn't want to take my car back to a place that screwed me, even if it was free... I wouldn't say that in a conversation with someone *hopefully* trying to make things right).

If the GM can't/won't do anything, I'd try getting in touch with their corporate office. According to their website, the address matches their Acura location:

875 N. State Road 7
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33317
(888) 502-8130

Executives are generally more eager to get involved in, and resolve, issues with customers after those customers have failed to get resolution through the proper channels... you're likely to get better results going to them after you've already tried going through the specific store you had an issue with.


I would do all of this concurrently with the recommendations made to file a complaint with the FL Attorney General's office. I wouldn't mention this to the dealer, however; you want them to resolve your issue to keep you as a customer, and not have feel threatened.


On another note, they probably have it listed as technician #00000 as an easy way for all the technicians to just use the same login to the dealership software. This would make it easy for them to maintain, as they don't have to set up each new technician with a different number and username/password to remember (i.e., forget...), but removes accountability for a technician who may have messed up a job. From a customer's standpoint, it wouldn't matter as much, but it might give you an idea of how their service department is run (although it sounds like you found out already with the unneeded upsell of services and the crappy car wash).


I don't understand some dealership service departments these days. If you provide a good service and stop trying to screw over customers, you'll not only keep your current customers but gain any referalls they hand out just by word of mouth. And now its more important than ever since automotive sales in general are low. But I digress.


Either way, best of luck!

Ken1997TL

There's a small problem with that argument.

Honda or someone else will say each job takes (x) number of minutes. A well-trained mechanic can do 15 or even 20 hours of work in 8 hours for example.

GuyWithNoLife

This is to the tech's benefit for warranty work, as it pays per the labor time guide no matter how quick it was done.

But from a customer's standpoint, if you drop your car off for an hour, why would you pay 4 hours?