RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

That's crap. A lot of that is unnecessary and them telling you to do it is irresponsible and underhanded.

I agree that cleaning the throttle plate is something that should be done, but you can do it yourself for next to nothing. Cleaning the EGR passages should not be needed unless the CEL is on and should not be required in a car with 45K miles.

Like everyone else said the brake fluid flush is about all that you should have done.

I would find a better dealer. And get to know one of the service managers and techs if possible.

rkan121

stealership huh....

berite100

are all dealerships like this?
i think my next car is going to be a leased bmw so i dont have to deal with some dealership getting mainteancen done. everytime i walk out feeling i just got bent over and they forgot to use lube

GuyWithNoLife

It varies from dealership to dealership. You can get different experiences from different locations from the same company. It also can depend on the individual service advisor... some will want to build a relationship with their customers, so the customer will come back to them; others could care less because they'll just grab the next car on the drive anyway.

berite100

honda/acura ...as a name brand want their dealers to act this way is more of a disappointment to me.
look if it needs to be done i will get it done, but dont make it sound like they are redesigning the wheel. its a damn oil change you are looking at it.
that shouldnt cost 120bucks. of course i guess i am the sucker for not asking how much an oil change was before getting any work done.
at this rate i am looking at a toyota.
had a toyota for 15 years not a problem. always started when i put the key in the ignition. i thought i would get a honda/acura due to their reputation, and so far.
my engine came off the assembly line apparently without being screwed on right. so oil leak out of the engine from day one.
the other day the car wont start so it got towed to some dealership and walk out paying 1100 bucks on i have no idea.

besides the new tl is still ugly, and i do not want to deal with acura dealerships no more. (i actually was okay with the one i dealt with on a regular basis but the others all left a bad taste.)

stvtec

iTrader: (2)

You spent $1100 to repair a no start condition, and you don't know what it was??

eaglegreen48

If you must go to a dealer, you might consider checking out Honda dealerships for starters. Better yet look for some reputable techs who own their own business specializing in Acura/Honda. There's a long list of things that you don't need a dealer for.

berite100

no they started with the battery is dead. whatever...200 bucks fine.
but we found that you need to have your front and side engine mounts replaced cause they are both gone/broken.
now what would have happened if i said no just replace the battery and i will have it looked at the usual shop?

GuyWithNoLife

In my previous post I was referring more towards privately owned dealerships (such as Rick Case, who owns Honda, Acura, and other dealerships). When it comes to service, the way the customer is treated comes down to the service manager and the department (s)he runs, not the logo that's on the front of the building. You'd expect to get better service from a more expensive brand, but that's not always the case.

Manufacturers (i.e., Acura) do have strict guidelines that dealerships (i.e., Rick Case Acura) are supposed to adhere to. A major way they track this is by the customer surveys they do. If you've had either a great experience or an awful experience at a dealership and you get called or mailed a survey, definitely fill it out; there is a lot of weight on those, and for good reason.

The manufacturer (Honda, Toyota, etc) does have a role in the labor rate. You can get an Acura serviced at a Honda dealership and pay less, for example.


In the end, dealerships are great for warranty work, since it doesn't cost you anything. All other work will be much cheaper if you can find a local reputable shop (or if you do it yourself). If you're not aware of the work that needs to be done, and the work you're being quoted for, you run the same chance of being screwed whether it's a dealership with a giant (A) on the sign or a local mechanic.

berite100

and i have their acura/honda service contract.
and guess what is not covered.

berite100

i totally agree...so no more acura for me.
either bmw lease with their free maintenance program or buy a toyota and not deal with a dealership.

stvtec

iTrader: (2)

That is exactly what you could/should have done. You have a service contract and broken motor mounts were not covered? I don't think those are an ordinary "wear item". How many miles on the car?

coykiam

Just a little warning though. Even though the car is still under warranty the dealer will still have the last word regardless of any brand. A little over a month ago my timing belt broke at 50K miles, so I was out of the basic warranty but I was still very well inside the powertrain warranty. Fast forward to the day I picked up my car, I didn't have a choice but to fork up $1000 to pay the dealer since it was very useless talking to the SA. Whatever I say he would just BS on anything that points back to me. The following are the crap he gave me:

1) It could be lack of maintenance?
- Since I wasnt able to produce receipts and he said he gave me a 10 day window. We both know it was only 2 days and I argued with him.

2) Could be improper oil change maintenance?
- As I did not document every oil change....STEP BY STEP!

3) Who knows? The problem probably started before that...
- Car was always with them for some oil change every year and some maintenance. Shouldn't they be able to see this if they did some/most of the maintenance in the past if he says "it started before.."

And some more BS that I didnt even bother listening to...

spaceshark

First of all a big thank you to everyone here. Your advice really helped me through this.

I talked on the phone with the GM - He says he will set things right.

His words "whatever it takes."

Thanks to you all - and the power of social networking and great sites like Acurazine - we can hold people accountable - and the truth surfaces.

Acuras really are great cars. The TL Type S is my third Acura. It is a fun car to drive and I really want to take care of it.

My number one lesson I learned - is to come here first to ask questions - before I go anywhere.

Thank you all again,
George

zeta

iTrader: (1)

lol, This is true. When they replaced my clutch, the tech. forgot to completely tighten down and torque the two 19mm flange bolts (#23) on the front beam. See link below. I noticed a subtle clunking as I drove the car on subsequent days after the repair. Since it was my daily driver and I could not arrange more time off from work to address this with the dealer, I waited until the end of the week. This was when I reinstalled the S/C unit and just retorqued those flange bolts myself.

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

When the SA sent me the survey, as mentioned above, I gave them a generous '9' as an overall score. I got a phone call at work from the SA and he wondered why they (dealer/SA/Tech) did not get the perfect 10 score. I informed him on my findings and he acted as if I did not know what I was talking about. I stated that if it had not been for that one crucial blunder on their part they would have received a 10, oh well.

I must say that RC did perform all my warranty work with no issues.


This is very true in my experience with stealership/local shops. You have to go in there, if possible, with an understanding of what is going on, otherwise, Caveat emptor, is the rule of the day.

berite100

<65k?
whatever, like i said just left a bad taste in my mouth from point 0.
no one knew where my car was after the tow truck told us the car was in their shop and gave me the guys name who signed off on.
couldnt get anyone to call me back, they told me they were open on the saturday, and it will be all done by sat. whatever.
monday comes around they go uh its just the battery and the number they had didnt go anywhere, even thou i called them three times and talked to someone on saturday. they are saying they could have fixed it on saturday but the number they had didnt work. again i talked to three different people on saturday.
so monday they said i need to get my mounts done and some maintenance.

but i got an acura umbrella out of it. a 1100 dollar umbrella.

berite100

with my toyota i used a local shop i have used for 15 years. the mechanic let me stand with him while he was working. hell he was educating me about my car while he was working on it. he showed me the parts that needs to be replaced and showed me why. he used to catergorize the work infront of me.
stuff he said you NEED to do and stuff i SHOULD do.
so all i the stuff i NEED to do was done on the spot and all the other stuff that should get done we both waiting till it was a need job.
now we have how many people in the middle? the mechanic tells the advisor and the advisor talks to me.
can i see what he is doing? no no its insurance issues. so its like layers and layers of people. dont like.
going back to the simpler life with a simple car.
till i am rich enuff where i dont care.

jhumbo

iTrader: (1)

$50 for the brake flush at a dealer is actually quite a deal. I just shopped this out at 3 dealers and got $160, $120 and $89.

As for the rest of the service

berite100

remember in college i spent some time in a student shop...since being poor students had all the equipment to work on your car and pay like dollar an hour for the equipement.
here is where i saw what is difficult and what is not.
some were just a knowledge issue, some were just muscle, some where just annoying but simple. like brake pad change, on the scale its is a rather easy job if you have a lift.
so when a mechanic quotes me like 150 bucks for a brake pad job i ask why and watch them dance. i think i have done a brake pad change in 20 mins. with a lift and impact wrench and i had a vague idea what i was doing. so as a pro i am sure they can knock that job out in 10 if they wanted. so for 150 bucks what am i getting?

stvtec

iTrader: (2)

10 minute brake pad job? I would rather they take an hour and I'll pay for the time, rather than have my life on the line.

berite100

and you paying the extra money guarantees it is done properly?
how do you know?
do you see them doing it?
just saying.
hey i am too lazy to do it myself. so i am praying the guys in the shop take their time and get it done properly but like i said cant imagine taking more than 20 mins.

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

+1

Having a group of enthusiasts to turn to for advice is a huge benefit.

I personally do all the work on my car, however, I still come here before I start anything to see if anyone has a DIY guide and/or time-saving caveats that I would have otherwise had to find out the hard way.

I would do the same thing in your shoes. At a stealership, you pay for what you don't know, and Acurazine definitely puts you in-the-know.

stvtec

iTrader: (2)

No, I'd just do it myself, but if I took it to a shop and they gave me the car back even in 20 minutes, I would be very scared about the quality of the job.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

That's a good thing, to have someone advise and visually explain important maintenance items needed while one stands by.

Yes, unfortunately, these layers exist at dealerships; however, this can be diluted if one walks in with a certain level of knowledge and the presence of mind that this is how these places operate and prepare for it accordingly. In addition, like mentioned in other posts, that it is truly helpful, if the dealership is to be frequented often for your maintenace needs, that, if possible, develop a relationship with a SA or Tech that you trust. This takes time. Otherwise, all you have is the proactive wits one has developed in understanding any current issue you have to present for repair.

See, this is a very important key. In my case, it's not about not having a 'lift' or 'tools' to do the job or being lazy. It's more to the fact that I EXPECT to be 'upsold' on every little f-ing unnecessary thing when I go to the dealer. For one simple fact. That is, when they open the hood and see a S/C unit on the car, all they see is $$$. So, to combat that mentality, one has to maintain control, and EDUCATE ones self as much as possible. Moreover, when you BS with the SA/tech they will know, right off, that you are proactive and know a thing or two about the issue presented. Then, once the playing field has been leveled, I have found that the upsell BS disappears like a vapor.

Well, that's OK too. It's another way to skin the cat, if you will. However, I forced myself to learn how to DIY alot from this forum. For the very reason stated above. When you mod your car like I have, you either have to PAY someone to fix it when things go wrong/wearout OR get proactive and fix it yourself, at the same time saving a sh*t load of cash knowing that it was done correctly.

Bearcat94

Ken, I understand and completely agree. That is why I said the OP should inquire as to whether this was an acceptable practice or a subtle form of scamming a customer.

In my mind if injector service is $279 flat rate, then it's flat rate whether it takes 10 minutes or all day.

BUT, I'd expect my invoice to be "Injector Service ...... Total $279". Not, "Injector Service, Labor $62.50, Parts, $37.50 ...... Total $279."


IOW - showing actual work time for flat-rate service is just saying to the customer, "Haha, we f'kd you but good. Have a nice day."



BTW - OP, glad oyu have a (seemingly) positive response. Personally, at this point, I'd be happy if I got credit on the 2 1/2 hours labor that you were "over charged".

GuyWithNoLife

This is true... a lot of places even have a large bulletin board made up that lists the flat price for each service.

Again, right on... if it lists "4 hr labor x$95/hr", obviously they can't back that up (unless they have the aforementioned posted sign with the price... but then, they'd look like freakin idiots for writing their invoice like that).


Anyway, I'm glad the GM got in touch with you... hopefully (for everyone's sake) he makes it right. Like I mentioned earlier, its the service manager that really determines how well (or poorly) the service drive runs, and if enough issues are brought to upper management's attention, ideally, chances of reoccurance drop.


Okay, I'm a little drunk and just ranting a bit, but I still don't get it. 90% of car drivers (made up percentage but whatever) aren't going to do the work on their car themselves, be it from lack of knowledge, time, ability, or just not wanting to get dirty. That's fine. So they're either gonna try a local mechanic to save a dollar and risk getting screwed, or go to a dealership, which has the benefit of hiding behind a major name (Honda, Acura, Toyota, etc). Besides, they bought their Accord from the place, they should know how to fix it and maintain it, right?

So you get this rather large group of people willing to pay top dollar for oil changes and tire rotations. The same type of people who will talk to all of their family and friends about how great their dealership is if cars come up in conversation.

...and then you just fuck them over. Sell them shit they don't need yet (or at all). Service Managers that actually go out of their way to avoid customers that ask to speak to them.

Don't get me wrong... these... problem dealerships... are a minority, but god damn do they paint a bad image, whether its a specific franchise (such a Rick Case) or a whole brand ("I'm done with Honda/Acura, they left a bad taste in my mouth" - damn right though, if a dealership screwed me over and the car manufacturer didn't back me up, why would I invest another dollar into them, much less $30k?).

You can't always hire perfect service advisors, or service managers... or even GMs. I'm really happy to hear the OP's GM is at least trying to come to a resolution.


I work with an automotive group (if that wasn't apparent already). It's not Rick Case. I don't work for a specific dealership, so in a way, I've always felt that the dealerships' sales and service statistics didn't affect my pay. Technically speaking, they don't, directly. On the other hand, the way the economy has been the past few years, I haven't been advancing at all either. Gas prices and cost of living go up, my paycheck doesn't.

I've seen some amazingly good and amazingly bad management over the years. The biggest influence I've seen is the customers' voices, through surveys and direct complaints. Everyone expects to have an unhappy-customer-no-matter-what-you-do now and then, but a constant stream of complaints indicates a problem that needs to be fixed before you drive away your current and future customers.

Anyway, I guess it's not specific to the automotive business, but if you feel like you've been screwed by a company, make it known... some random employee who's tired of being screwed by other people will silently thank you for it.

Hell, I'll even tell ya what to say.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

I picked up on it, that's why I responded. Let me guess, JMFE or AutoNation et al? There are a few based in S.FL.

No need to divulge; however, feel free to contribute because I, for one, enjoy the critical thinking involved in your responses.

berite100

you know i have not gotten a service quality call from anyone yet. its odd.
at my usual place they bother me for like days to do their survey but at the shop i got all this work done...nothing. weird. who do i call about that?

nj2pa2nc

this is the reason why dealers like this make other dealers look bad. The dealer I use has been excellent and does try to sell me unneeded service like your dealer did.

berite100

agreed. but at the same time ... i blame acura.
whatever.
its one thing to have complaint but when no one complains that just means they have moved on to something else, and stopped complaining.
that would be the worst think acura can have.

chay823

Man they sitted all on u and in your hand!!!

nj2pa2nc

if you have not done this-go to the dealerrater website and write a review. Why are you blaming acura-it was the dealer that sold you unnecessary service. A-1 service is a oil change. You go to other bad dealers not matter what brand and they will do the same thing.

stvtec

iTrader: (2)