for those who get the "Cannot Find Article" reply from Road & Track website on the (dated) link above, I did find the article at:https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...x-coolest-awd/

 

Mark, thank you for posting. Great article. I continue to be very impressed with my ‘20RLX at 27k miles. The car just works, and works very well and pleasurably. Just need to get my creaky drivers exterior door handle issue resolved
Ed

 

i’ve learned to trust the sh awd and instead of braking i accelerate and it’s frankly exhilarating going into these cloverleaf exits from my local highways

 

Thanks for the new link! This car was an amazing piece of tech for its time. For those few of us who own one, it's "if you know, you know". Or..."it's a eSH-AWD thing, you wouldn't understand".

 

Now that the 245/40-19 size is available for the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 4, has anyone thought of ditching the Primacy MXM4 for them? Or if you're considering ditching the Primacy, are you leaning towards summer tires and bypassing all season to something like Pilot Sport 4S (and subsequently getting winter tire/wheel set)?

Aside from the big gain in better winter performance, I am wondering how much more performance summer will net me over all season during the non-winter seasons, given the RLX is handicapped by its weight and suspension.

 

The simple fact is that summer tires are undoubtably the best tires for summer and winter tires are undoubtably the best tires for snow and ice. I have considered the summer tire/ winter tire scenario, but unfortunately, I live in an area where snow is possible at least 8 months of the year and getting caught with summer tires on in a snow storm is downright dangerous. For this reason I have to use all season tires which are "just ok" in the summer and "just ok" in the snow but they get me through the grey areas until I put my dedicated snow tires on in late fall. In a perfect world, I would add a third set of tires to the rotation and drive winter tires/all season/summer/all season/ winter etc. but all those changeovers and storing yet another set of tires make that truly ideal scenario impractical.

Fortunately, the all-season tire technology has grown by leaps and bounds over the past few decades and the new "ultra high performance all season tires" are really pretty damn good on dry or wet roads and passable in light snow as well.

Just my two cents.

 

I'll definitely be getting the AS4 but I want to up +1 size to 255/40/19. Though I like the square shoulder look of the AS3+ more. I had those tires on my Lexus, really loved them. I may go that route this summer when they run Michelin rebates. Ultra High Performance AS4 is more than adequate for our cars. Max Summer tires like 4S are an overkill and a waste of money IMO.

 

If I live in Canada with 8 months of snowfall possibility as well, I would've chosen all season without even thinking about it. Living in Illinois, I'm in the southern edge of the northern hemisphere where it might be an overkill to go summer and winter sets over all-season. It is being at the cusp that makes me evaluate.

For sure I appreciate your feedback. I, too, understand all-season has improved a lot over the past decade, but it is hard to tell objectively by how much. Before this post, I thought the oldish adage that summer tires will always outperform all-season in the wet/damp non-winter season. I clobbered the objective data from Tire Rack's test results together (ignoring the subjective scores) from their Max Performance Summer comparison test (2019.09.06) and Ultra High Performance All Season test (2020.07.20), since the test track, vehicle and tire size used in the tests were all the same: 2020 BMW F36 430i Gran Coupe with 245/40R18. The only caveat is that we don't know how different the weather between 2019 and 2020 tests was.

After reviewing the data, I was shocked that the aforementioned adage totally didn't hold up, especially when taking Michelin Pilot Sport 4s into consideration, which is Tire Rack's top rated summer tire. Its wet performance barely beat out Goodyear's best AS and Michelin's latest Pilot Sport AS 4 in the slalom test, and even lost out to Goodyear in the lap test, and lost to both in the stopping distance test. Skidpad is nearly equivalent. I wasn't expecting ANY of that at all! So between the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S and the Pilot Sport AS 4's big overlapping gap in performance, it seems like going with the new AS 4 may be the sensible choice. Other than the craptastic Chicago winter potholes not playing nice with our 40 ratio profile tires.







Sources:
^https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=248
~https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=259
*https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=138

In the stopping and skidpad tests, I threw in our Michelin Primacy MXM4 out of morbid curiosity, but that test was done on a 2011 BMW E92 328i Coupe with 205/55R16 on 2010.09.17, so quite a few grains of salt there.

The difference between $273.99 a tire for the 4S and $249.09 a tire for the AS4 is not that big, and I feel like getting superior grip from winter tires in winter times is a good investment. But after reviewing the performance data of the new AS4, it's really making me think twice.

 

Seeing the minute performance difference between the summer tires and the UHP All season tires, I think the safety of the all season tire in a sudden cold snap or snow storm becomes an easy decision in all but the warmest climates. Surprisingly, the Primacy's held their own, but, as you mentioned, the data was a different test, different car, slightly different conditions etc., so not really a true apples to apples comparison.

Several posters have noted improved performance with the Michelin PS3's vs the OEM Primacy's, so I would assume the PS4's would also be an upgrade. It is always difficult to compare tires though, since the nature of tire replacement is that you are comparing a worn out set of your old tires vs a brand new set of the new tires and there will always be a substantial improvement in the new tire pretty much regardless of the tire (as long as they are in the same general class of tire). The Tirerack tests are always tires in the same performance class, so it is difficult to extrapolate that data to different tire classes, but I would certainly assume that as you "move up" in performance class (and the usual accompanying increase in price), you should expect the performance to improve and the road manners to improve as well. Thus, it would make sense that the PS4's should be smoother, quieter and grippier than the MXM4's.

Thanks for taking the time to compile the chart - interesting stuff.

 

If I keep the MXMs untilmthey wear out, another option is the Conti ExtremeContact DWS. I used them on my 2014 RLS SH and they provided excellent all-seaon performance, far superior to the stock MXMs. My RLX is my daily driver, and I have two sportier cars for summer use, so I have no personal need to switch between summer and winter rubber on the RLX.

 

That is my game plan when it is time to replace my OEM tires on our RLX/MDX hybrids. I've always had good luck with low noise/long 50K tread life/good mpgs Conti DWS tires with the 06 TSX, 08 RDX, and 11 MDX living in the southwest with spotty downpours, 5-7 snow days, mountain switchbacks, and posted hwy speeds of 75-80 mph. You can hit all four seasons on one roadtrip out west depending on the time of year and the Conti DWS are nice to have.

 

You're welcome. It was fun 10 minute exercise on Excel, that yielded the most interesting eye opener for me. It's amazing how AS tire technology has come so far.

 

so far the 0-60 times for the new TLX type-S are kinda fuzzy. I dont think I’ve seen anyone post official numbers yet. All the reviews I’ve watched so far has quoted Acura’s “less than 5 seconds” claim.

 

Redline reviews has the best time so far, 4.7 seconds, and the others are in the neighborhood of 5 seconds. RLX SH is 4.8-9. And, the Type S is only 100 pounds less than the RLX Sport Hybrid (42xx vs 4380). So far...I'm not sorry I didn't wait for the Type S. More features, more speed and power, for less money, at the cost of less sharp suspension. Eh, I'll take it.

Even so, the Type S is a great value (even missing some Advance features, I think an error), I think it will sell, and the aftermarket will make a proper beast of it.

 

really a cryin shame Acura never updated the RLX’s dated infotainment system with the refresh. I’m very happy with mine except for that area. I actually don’t care for the TLX - never did. Was just interested in seeing if it dethroned our beloved RLX in the speed department and sadly it did. Even with all of its speed power and updated infotainment system over the RLX I’d still rather have the RLX.

 

The TLX will never be able to compete with the roominess of the RLX nor the smooth, quiet ride. Those were the most important features in my choice to buy the RLX Sport Hybrid... the 4.8 second 0-60 runs are just a bonus ( as is the 30+mpg).

My age is showing here, because many years ago, I would have been all over that Type S even if you need a shoe horn to get people in the back seat.

 

Acura might have had another reason among many to discontinued the RLX and MDX hybrids because those models would be very close to the performance and handling of the MDX/TLX Type-S. I would still have gone for a +22 MDX Adv +321hp Sport Hybrid over the 354hp MDX Type-S if both were available at the same time.

 

Me too! Love both our Sports Hybrids. Glad I got them before they're gone for good. Too bad and shame on Acura for killing such a great platform. Type S is blah for asking price of $52K. I'll take my $43K RLX-SH over it any days of the week.

 

If I were head of Acura for a day, I would transition into making the Sport Hybrid technology standard on ALL Acuras. The benefits in performance AND fuel economy are exactly what the brand needs right now as they work on perfecting their all-electric lineup. Become known as the Performance brand by eliminating the low-rev lag that is inherent in all small displacement engines with the immediately available torque of electric motors AND become known as the "Green" brand by offering ONLY hybrid electric vehicles in your lineup. They could then tweak the system with more efficient engines including engines that utilize trickle down F1 technology to charge the battery with the Turbo and prechamber combustion to maximize fuel economy. If they made a car that performs like a race car AND gets 50 or 60+mpg, I think they would be a nice alternative to BEV's that can't drive more than 150 miles in the winter and take 5 hours to recharge.

My suspicion is that getting enough Lithium Ion batteries is the limiting factor in all of these decisions as the world awaits newer battery technology that is more efficient, cheaper to produce, doesn't involve massive strip mines with toxic run off etc. Alternatively, maybe Acura's market research shows that the average automobile buyer just doesn't care about fuel economy and as a group have snubbed their noses at hybrid technology. Maybe the production of the Sport Hybrid is more difficult and more costly than it seems and that is why Acura isn't championing this technology. Maybe Acura's marketing department have found it impossible to educate the masses about the Sport Hybrid technology, teaching them that the technology isn't just about fuel economy, but vastly improved performance as well. Who knows.

Alas, I am not the head of Acura, so I will just shut my mouth and continue to drive our Sport Hybrids, enjoying that instant torque and smiling every time I pass a gas station.

 

I am going to look at the MDX Type S when it comes out and if it provides the performance I want I will trade the MDX Sport Hybrid in for it. Otherwise until Acura creates a plug in hybrid like my other vehicle the Volvo, my time with Acura may be coming to an end. After a year in the Volvo and being basically shocked by how good it is in every way, it is becoming a very hard argument for me to remain an Acura loyalist. I hope everyone is doing well. Be safe everyone!

 

how is the performance with the AC on full blast for you guys? I notice that the RLX was a bit on the weak side, like any other car with the AC running high. Seems fuel efficiency suffers as well. Was thinking the batteries would compensate but I don’t know.

 

AC is super cold for me. I usually just set at 68-70. I believe previous owner installed front windshield tint too that cut down on UV and heat entering the car. So that helps.

One thing that annoys me about the RLX is lack of rear automatically climate control. It's the top-of-the-line sedan for Acura and they skimmed on rear passenger's comfort. My kids are always too hot or too cold back there. They don't know how to make the manual adjustments despite me showing them many times. And lack of rear USB ports. WTF Acura?!

 

The Honda Legend hybrids sold in Japan has electronic climate and radio controls when you fold down the center armrest. The Honda legend also has trunk close button and you can move up the passenger seat from the back for more leg room. The Legend is probably used as an Executive car with chauffeur. I don't like the cheapo manual 2nd row vents also.

 

I was also thinking about this when they gave out details of Type-S, they want backwards with a turbo engine, why did they create NSX hybrid if they didn't want to make it more mainstream, the RLX Hybrid almost felt like testing waters before making it available in TLX. Oh well

Also being a transverse engine the TLX will never be able to send full power either to the front or the rear wheels(unlike some of its competitors which offer RWD only options), plus will have turbo lag. Only advantage would be peak power at lower rpms because of turbo but then again time will tell how reliable those turbos will be.

 

^^^I couldn't agree more. The automotive world is currently scrambling to make their products "greener" and Acura's latest is a turbo gas guzzler with mediocre performance?? I know they were hit hard by the pandemic and that they don't have the massive resources that companies like Mercedes and Toyota, but the easier solution would have been to add the newest iteration of the Sport Hybrid tech to the TLX and make a rocket ship that gets 35mpg. Again, I don't know the economics or supply issues with the Sport Hybrid technology, but they could certainly have made the TLX-S greener and likely faster.

It seems like there are competing factions on the board with one side leaning towards performance and the other side leaning towards environmental awareness and they keep choosing one side or the other instead of finding a happy medium (not unlike the U.S. political situation, LOL). My approach would be to stay true to the racing heritage of the company and honour Mr Honda, but get performance from "greener" sources such as electric motors instead of turbos (unless, of course, you can use those turbos to charge the battery ie MGUH technology).

I'm clinging to the hope that the turbo in the TLX-S is the first step in seeing Honda use Formula 1 technology to create a truly amazing Sport Hybrid that has shocking performance and equally shockingly good fuel economy. Said Sport Hybrid would become the new Legend and would become my next vehicle. Fingers crossed.

 

I finally got around to watching the TLX S videos - people seem to like to quote that 4.7 seconds 0-60 that Redline review was able to achieve but that was on his THIRD attempt and with brake torquing. His first run was 5.1. I think in real world performance our RLX SH might still be faster in a straight line. I’m not very impressed by the TLX S’s performance.

 

FWIW, I put the Conti DWS's on both of my past RLX's at right at 45k miles and they were night and day better performers and so much quieter than the stock Michelins...

 

Just watched this video, The Accord 2.0 beats the new TLX by 2 car lengths in a quarter mile

Anybody here still thinks Acura knows what they are doing LOL

 

Probably the combo of powertrain loss because of sh-awd and the extra +500 lbs hurting the TLX. It would be interesting to see how the same cars would do on a road course.

 

that’s what I’ve been saying. Even the type-S isn’t that hot off the line. everyone quotes that 4.7 seconds run to 60 from that Redline review video but if you actually watched it he only got that on his 3rd attempt and with brake torquing it. Real world performance won’t be anywhere near that. It’s a 5 second 0-60 car, which isn’t bad by any means but it took so much engineering to achieve it. They reached the limits of FWD with our RLX SH.

 

Yup...RLX SH would beat even a Type S in a straight line. Not that it matters, but facts. I will say, having owned an Accord, that the Accord is massive bang for the buck.

 

I guess a more fair comparison would be with a FWD TLX and 3 extra adults in the Accord

 

Formula 1 fans will notice that, starting with this weekend's race in France, Honda has changed their branding on the Red Bull cars from "Honda Hybrid" to "Honda e:technology". Has "hybrid" become a dirty word?

This suggests a few things to me:
1. Maybe the term "hybrid" has developed the connotation of "sacrificing performance for fuel economy" and Honda wants to distance themselves from that term.
2. Honda wishes the world to know that they are proponents of electric technology, even if that electric technology is applied in conjunction with an efficient Internal Combustion Engine.
3. Honda/Acura may have an electric vehicle (BEV or FCEV) in the works and Honda plans to brand the drivetrain as e:technology.

I know that my local Acura dealer had a hard time selling the MDX Sport Hybrid which is astonishing to me. The MDX is amongst the most popular vehicles there are around here, so a hybrid version that is FASTER and gets MUCH better gas mileage should be flying off the lot. Instead, it appears that gas prices are still low enough that consumers just aren't willing to pay a bit extra for the better gas mileage AND Acura just didn't do a good enough job educating buyers about the improved performance and the Sport Hybrids sat on the lot until heavily discounted.

All of this seems to help explain why Acura has gone away from the Sport Hybrid technology. I wonder if they used the same technology, but added a larger battery and added the ability to plug in and charge the battery, if the technology would be more popular/accepted?? Then, the vehicle would become a plug-in electric car that just happens to have an ICE to help charge the battery. If marketed that way, I wonder if the same technology would be more accepted by the masses??

A pretty high percentage of automobile owners take their vehicles on long highway trips and BEV's just don't currently have the range to do this conveniently (that is without very careful planning to coordinate the necessary lengthy recharging stops). So, the solution currently seems to be hybrid battery/ICE vehicles for the best of both worlds. BUT, the world has now snubbed this technology with an "if you don't drive an electric car you are destroying the planet" attitude. Acura was thus left with no choice but to abandon the Sport Hybrid branding and instead put a turbo engine in the new TLX Type-S because they want it to convey the image of a true performance car and nothing shouts performance like a turbocharged engine (even if it lacks the performance of the Sport Hybrid).

That's all. Just thinking out loud and trying to make sense of Acura dropping the Sport Hybrid tech and instead promoting a gas guzzling turbo tech.

 

I just keep going back to the attached article and playing the wait and see game just like everyone else. They are being super coy about the plans for hybrid/totally e vehicles. But 2024 will be here in no time if this article is speaking the truth. I do watch F1 and see what they are doing there. So the technology is still in play. But as you say hondamore, too many consumers have turned their nose up at the hybrid tech. I would gather many of whom never gave it a real chance in the first place.

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...oming-for-2024

 

I'd be a lot more excited about any future electric Acura if it were made in Japan by Honda. I guess I still have far too many memories of my late father's Oldsmobiles breaking down regularly. He would trade his GM cars in every three years or less because "three years is when they really start to have major problems".

I guess we will just have to wait and see what the future holds for Honda/Acura in the electric age. I really thought my next vehicle would be a fuel cell powered BEV by Acura, but that may be a long way off yet. That said, I live in an oil rich area and they just announced the construction of a huge hydrogen plant not all that far from here, so that future may be closer than we think.

 

I was waiting for a larger battery pack, 15-20 miles of pure EV range, and plug-in option with the +22 MDX Hybrid. Not sure why hybrid is such a dirty word when it is the 99% solution for my lifestyle.

I would go 100% electric if:
- technology can get charge times down to gas refueling time. I have no issues waiting 20-30 minutes at Sams/Costco to gas up for 400-450 miles of range.
- technology can get range up and weight down. I would need the same +450 mile range with 20-30 minute charge time living/driving in the southwest to trade to BEV. It could be 2-24 hrs of charge time to drive the same distance depending on charge station and type BEV you have. I don't think there are any superchargers near my in-law in New Mexico near the TX boarder. (+12 hrs at 120v at their home if I had a BEV).

 

Acura/Honda have always been bad at marketing their Hybrid cars which have resulted in poor sales which have in turn resulted in Hybrids being lower profile in their portfolio. Now electric is the future is something they have realized late and need to come up with a game plan soon. A new branding is probably part of that realization that they need to stand out from the crowd of Hybrids out there, specially when Toyota has such a strong Hybrid image.

 

they’ve had bad marketing, periodt. this brand now has had 30 years to learn the market & they’ve yet to crack it despite the great Honda reputation behind it. The EV age will be no different.

 

RLX SH is case in point. It's a fabulous, totally under-the-radar car that Acura didn't really want in the first place...and marketing was iffy from the beginning.

Hopefully, the Honda-GM Ultium battery powered cars that are presumably coming will be better marketed. After all, they will be going up against Tesla, the king of that space.

 

I've always had the impression of either full oil burner and transition to fully electric are the ultimate goals of most vehicle manufacturers. Any type of hybrid or plug-in hybrid are only a place holder for short time until they can go fully electric when technology and recharge infrastructure gets to that point. I think the most we can hope for in the future for hybrid vehicles is the oil burning being used as a generator for the electric motors. Kinda like the Honda hybrid system where the NA engine only provides power to the electric motors and recharges the battery in normal driving.