neuronbob

After a night of thinking about it, not me, at least not for the immediate future. I posted some thoughts about the Type S, which I finally test drove yesterday. Link is below.

https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...oughts-995816/

My preferred dealer asked a week ago if I was interested in taking one of their upcoming build slots, so I had to find a dealer still offering test drives.

I just wanted to post some RLX-specific thoughts here. I waited for this car so long that I ended up in a RLX SH instead, because of the wait. In honesty, had I not experienced the RLX SH again, I'd probably be in line for a TLX Type S. Luckily, I did find my current RLX.

The biggest issue for me is that for the $43k I bought my essentially new RLX SH, the features are better than what I could get for a TLX Type S at $53-55k. No 360 degree cameras, heated steering wheel (though can be dealer-installed), HUD, limo-sized back seat. The TLX Type S has going for it the adaptive suspension and excellent mechanical SH-AWD-based handling, and more/better configured trunk space. Having now added a Grom VLine unit, infotainment is a wash, and I prefer using the jog dial to the new True Touch interface to control CarPlay. I'd prefer a touch screen to both, but you get what you get here.

The fit and finish of the RLX remains far superior to the TLX. Lots of hard surfaces in the TLX, though primarily areas that aren't touched often. The RLX has leather in all those non-touch spaces.

Handling is quite obviously different, as you would expect. eSH-AWD is trumped by mechanical SH-AWD every time. It takes less steering angle to activate the rear wheels. Suspension is softer, though in Comfort mode in the TLX, it comes close.

Straight line acceleration is pretty close between the Type S and the RLX SH, set to Sport mode. The TLX sounds awesome accelerating, though.

Bottom line, a used 2020 RLX SH vs a TLX Type S...used RLX wins on value and features for the money, rear seat room, and overall quality. Type S wins on handling. People keep talking about acceleration numbers...the Type S is a perfect example of a car in which the numbers don't necessarily tell the whole tale of the car. It's pretty sweet. If Acura adds all the Advance features to the Type S at the MMC, then I'll likely be a candidate.

jdpdata

Not me...they'll have to pry my dead cold fingers off my RLX-SH. A good read on your driving impressions TLX-S vs RLX-SH. For me personally, that rear-end of the TLX-S is atrocious, it's an immediate turn-off. The $10K premium over RLX is a real problem for me as well. Pay more to get less in features is crazy. All that hard plastics inside the TLX just screams CHEAP though I like the layout of buttons and newer infotainment system. As you've mention, GROM pretty much fixes all the issues in the RLX older infotainment. I do wish to have the newer direct touch pad, it would be alot easier to navigate menu items in Android Auto/CarPlay as opposed to that awful rotating knob. At the end of the day, it's a personal choice to stick with luxuries over performance. Not to say that the RLX-SH doesn't have any performance. Put it in Sport mode and stomp on the pedal will result in a big ass smile every-time. All that for mid $40K is unbeatable IMO.

mk5

Zero interest.

Maybe better tech and slightly less vanilla looking, but for me, the TLX gets beat in about every other category by the RLX SH; legroom, fuel economy, power, torque, unicorn factor….

phile

no heated steering wheel?! not a deal breaker for me but kinda jarring for that price range

psheu

TLX (Type S or not) has always been a lesser car compare to RLX SH. Different class.

hondamore

I've said this a number of times, but it may be appropriate here. The TLX (regular or Type-S) is a luxury sports sedan and the RLX is a sports luxury sedan. That is, I believe the TLX design puts a priority on sporty handling and "aggressive" exhaust note etc., whereas the RLX puts the emphasis on the luxurious interior and smoother, quieter ride. Even though the two models now share the same pricing bracket, I believe they are intended at slightly different markets. Both have attributes that are attractive to segments of Acura's sedan market with definite overlap areas, but I don't think they were ever truly intended as cars that would be cross-shopped. The RLX is intended to be $10K or so more expensive hence the nicer interior aimed at a more upscale buyer. At this time, with no replacement for the RLX on the horizon, Acura is simply hoping that some RLX owners decide to get into a Type-S TLX while they are waiting for the new luxury sedan.

At this stage in my life, I am more concerned about the Luxury, the Quiet and the Smooth than I am about the Sporty, so I'll stick with my RLX and wait for Acura to come up with a NEW flagship luxury sedan. That said, I still enjoy the sporty side of the RLX and I am hoping that any new Acura luxury sedan maintains or even intensifies the "sporty soul" that should be prominent in every Honda/Acura product.

Just my two cents.

neuronbob

^^^^^
Yup, the two are definitely different cars.

That said, the Type S optioning is not ideal. I’d be a buyer if it had more Advance features. I think it will ultimately happen, likely at the MMC, or maybe at the end they’ll do a PMC edition that combines all like they did for the 1G TLX. I’m therefore going to enjoy my RLX SH for now…unless I get an offer similar to what I paid, an entirely possible outcome given the current bonkers used car market.

rlx015

To be perfectly transparent, I never counted Type S as a car I would plan to get for several reasons, but I think this is a great thread started to discuss this as I can imagine many have considered it vs RLX SH...

After driving 06 RL for the last 10 years, I decided to upgrade it. After many test drives in the last 2-3 years, and when I say many, trust me - A LOT of test drives of all sorts of cars that may pique my interest - RLX SH came down to be the best performance, value for the money, Acura brand familiarity, AcuraCare availability, etc. I liked also a lot of reviews that stated how RLX actually feels having MORE than spec'd hp/torque and certainly you can feel it when driving it.

After driving RLX SH for about 2 months and loving every moment of it, I had the opportunity to test drive Type S and certainly: two different types of cars.
I would not personally trade RLX SH for Type - even if there was no financial difference from what I paid my RLX ... yes, I am crazy to state that probably by some opinions, but no... I do not think Type S is a car for me.
I liked the sound (bit artificial though) and also handling - with intent to be like that, it was of course tuned to offer such experience - Type S gotta stand for something sporty I guess

The issues I have with Type S is:
- price point
- 284whp for a car which is priced 55-60 and over with the certain markups
- Due to visual design interior is too tight while the car is pretty big on the exterior (5-series similarity)
- Options: I agree, 360 camera a must, heated wheel a must, HUD is truly amazing so that's a must... but again, after RLX-SH, easy choice to make...

Something factual: Everyone will get used to RLX SH much easier and all the features to spoil you as a driver over what Type S offers: a bit of an artificial exhaust sound and handling ... that's that...

mrgold35

I don't think I would get the full performance capabilities from the TLX Type-S other than jacking around. The RLX hybrid has a much wider performance envelop to handle my range of comfort to performance depending on my mood. I don't want to give up 25-30 mpgs from my MDX/RLX hybrids coming out of and 08 RDX and 11 MDX with mid-high teens mpgs averages. I would lean towards a used +18 NSX to be my garage queen for a long time since the MDX/RLX hybrid powertrains so-far are unbelievably reliable and almost trouble-free.

jdpdata

Dr. Bob, I think you know already know the answer to your question. Should you trade your RLX-SH for a TLX-S? That's a question only you can answer. From the look of cars in your stable, I'd assume you're more a performance orientated driver. The RLX-SH is a much different car than your NSX or CTS-V. It's a car to take a quiet Sunday ride in conform and luxury. You have the other two cars for when you want to jack around to get your adrenaline pumping. If I were to have the same cars in my stable, I would want to keep the RLX-SH just because it's so different from the other two. Plus now that it is discontinued, it will become even harder to find. No way in hell I'd give that up. There is nothing out there right now that is comparable to it for $45K range. The TLX-S will be improved with additional features and will be available for many years to come. You could always wait to see if they will add all the features you want and maybe get a used one to save some dough. Still the price premium of the TLX-S is not worth it to me. I guess my days of stiff suspension, loud exhaust and gigantic wheels with rubber band like tires are over (I had a modified GS350 before the RLX). My family and I so welcome the quiet serenity the RLX offers.

neuronbob

In honesty, I knew the answer before I did the test drive. I will say, the Type S would be a fun car to daily drive, and it will sell like crazy. Acura did a great job with the car and deserves kudos for it.

However, it wasn't enough to make me sell my recently acquired RLX just yet. Gives me a bit more freedom to finally tint, paint correct, and ceramic coat the RLX before the winter. Also needs aen engine block heater as it's an outside car.

This has been an interesting thread, though. It shows that there is a (tiny) market for mildly sporty largish luxury sedans still. My fever dream is that Acura brings back the Legend as a mid-lux car like the RLX, on an EV platform.

phile

it’s slim pickins. I like the S90 but I’m wary of a turbo and supercharged 4-banger from Volvo. I’m skipping the Germans entirely because of price & reliability. There is nothing from the other 2 Japanese brands.

My vision for a new RLX: even bigger, double stacked LED headlights again, using their new headlight design with the slimmer LEDs. Just make the SH the standard model. Improve the interior quality. As nice as the RLX interior is within the Acura lineup, I actually find an ES350’s interior to be even more posh. There is soft leather touches on most surfaces and I’m glad Lexus stuck with the polished wood trim vs the matte look that’s all the rave these days. I’m not entirely sold on EV technology. Something like that & i’ll gladly take an off-lease 3 yr old model again.

hondamore

[QUOTE=neuronbob;16756317 My fever dream is that Acura brings back the Legend as a mid-lux car like the RLX, on an EV platform.[/QUOTE]
Considering the following, a new Legend BEV or FCEV makes sense logically:

- Honda/Acura needs an entry into the EV market other than the stopgap models that GM will be making for them. EV seems to be a direction the world is heading towards, so Honda/Acura need to start designing their own models.
- This EV model will likely not see a large volume of sales. While the world appears heading towards EV's, consumers aren't yet convinced of their feasibility due to current battery limitations (eg. range and charging time), so any model in the near future is more likely going to be a proof of concept vehicle and test bed for the technology similar to what the RLX was for the Sport Hybrid technology.
- Because of the limited sales, this model will likely be priced at the high end of the model line. Rumours abound of Acura going even further upscale with the next Legend sedan and/or Legend SUV so pricing may be the highest ever for an Acura product (with the obvious exception of the NSX). It is possible that any new Legend models are hand-made on the PMC line that used to make the NSX?? Maybe an FCEV NSX would be their first foray into the EV world??
- Acura's lack of "snob appeal", will continue to mean that sales of such a high-end,high-priced Acura vehicle may be limited to the same type of diehard Honda/Acura loyalists that currently drive the RLX Sport Hybrid. That is, unless Acura can blow the doors off the world with their EV technology with a massive breakthrough in range or charging time or power or performance, in which case the world will line up to buy one (led by Hollywood types that just have to be seen in the best, latest and "greenest" EV).

My personal opinion is that, for this to happen, a FCEV would be Acura's best bet and sell it with an at-home, solar-powered Hydrogen generator so you can fill up at home at your leisure in the greenest possible way while the hydrogen infrastructure gets established. I personally don't think it would take long for the hydrogen stations to pop up everywhere if the demand is there just as propane tanks started showing up at gas stations when the propane conversion craze was ongoing.

Like Dr. Bob, this is my fever dream as well.

mrgold35

I agree with hybrid tech and battery tech not being the final form of EVs. The future of EV is having an onboard power generation system that provides the same range and refueling ease as petrol with the environmental impact as wind, solar, or fuel cell tech. I think the ultimate goal is develop some type of clean energy power generation and fuel cells seems to be the only viable candidate so far. The only other solution is some type of power transfer over-the-air or induction system like you see with mag-lev trains; but, that is another +50 years down the road.

neuronbob

@hondamore @mrgold35

This future would be pretty cool.

hondamore

Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads.

Sorry, showing my age there. Also sorry for the earlier double post - it was such a bad post I thought everyone should get to hate it twice.

mrgold35

I'm still a little upset we didn't get our flying cars back in 2014 as promised in Back to the Future II.

It is a little unusual for Acura to provide a TYPE S MDX/TLX so early into production. These types of models are introduced around MMC time. I like the new approach of being more aggressive and time will tell if they have the right car released at the wrong time again (1st gen RDX, ZDX, MDX hybrid, RLX). I think it would be harder to decide between the RLX hybrid and TLX Type-S if The Type-S came maxed out like the MDX Type-S.

rlx015

Whatever technology exists today or will be soon-to-exist, will have to pass one important challenge by all brands before they dive into such production of true energy-efficient vehicles:

What is the PROFITABILITY for such vehicle production?

If the answer to this question ends up being "less profit than now" or "equal to less profit than now" - we can see a number of options - but none truly addressing the energy-efficient space (current example is spot-on: we have gas engines, TC engines for economy, hybrid models, economical EVs (like Nissan Leaf) that are cost-effective from the price-point end... etc.
So all in all - current profitability is ultimately being sustained by many government tax-write-offs for manufacturers, grants, forgivable loans, etc. - and why all that we see today: it's because EVs are not profitable enough for car manufacturers to mass-produce EVs... where are all those batteries going to come from? No one asks that... Where will we charge all those vehicles... no one clearly says that either... and lastly - where will for example electricity come from??? Windmills? Sure... because it's not profitable even if possible, it will still take a long time to get there... if ever

I hope my tone did not sound argumentative but rather rational around that one challenge-question each manufacturer will have

mrgold35

It all comes from government backed infrastructure. Think about what type of cars we would have if the government did not invest in roads, rails, waterways, and bridges. Cable, gas, sewage, and electricity would be too expensive to use if we didn't have government investment. Imagine how cheap it would be to charge your EV if every home, school, government building, and business had solar and battery storage they could collect and share willingly. We are going to get there of a pure EV world; but, probably not in my lifetime.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

We are still enjoying our MDX Sport Hybrid even though it has only 44,000 miles on it so far. I’m not sure the MDX Type S would do it for us when we decide to replace the Sport Hybrid at some point. We will see. Our Volvo has been flawless and so far we have averaged more than 44 mpg for more than 17,000 miles of driving. Next year we will be adding something fun to the car stables which will be the antithesis of efficiency and totally unruly, but should be a lot of fun. Just waiting on the order confirmation and then the waiting game begins. No idea on a delivery date other than it will be next year some time.

jdpdata

hmm...my guess Corvette C8 Z06

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Sort of. 2022 CT5V Blackwing

hondamore

RLX-Sport Hybrid, you'll need to get a "my other two cars are hybrids" bumper sticker for the CT5V Blackwing so your neighbours don't give you the stinkeye every time they hear those 660+ HP coming down the street.

I hope you have years of enjoyment with your new (and probably last) "true muscle car".

RLX-Sport Hybrid

As you and others know, I have always wanted a toy like this and my wife thinks it is stupid as you might expect. However, she knows this is a once and done purchase. I have rolled my quarters to this point and know financially I have achieved a level of success that allows this to be a fun experience I can enjoy for years to come. Hondamore you are right about the stink eye. My neighbor next door (about 150 yards away) bought a Mustang GT500 a while ago and its cold start when he is taking it for a ride is simply awesome! I think a subdued version will be my experience eventually. I know it isn't an Acura so sharing my experiences with it or the Volvo on this forum might be misplaced according to some, I think this is just part of the fun to be alive. Good morning my friends.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

@RLX-Sport Hybrid Since OP has a CTS-V also...I think he can join me in saying that it absolutely is a stupid purchase (as your wife says) and also a necessary one.
I miss my CTS-V a lot...it's a fleeting feeling and I still love the power delivery of other vehicles like my S4...but that wagon was special.

I have a buddy with an allotment for a blackwing...if he gets that I might be driving another German car too since he needs to make room in his garage.
Right @KaMLuNg ?!?!?

I halfway want to test drive one of these sport hybrids to see if it's exciting to me...2014's are pretty cheap to be had
truth be told though, the styling might be a little toned down for my age and personality for the time being.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I have a "preliminary order number" as of this morning but with the GM shutdown and backlog of builds I am told not to pace the floor as it will be well into 2022 before delivery. Best guess is 12 months from now. I hope not. I found a local dealer who will NOT charge me a dealer mark up like most are doing. I have that in writing. Most I am seeing are adding $10-25k to the MSRP. That is crazy.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

are you specifically looking for a manual?

RLX-Sport Hybrid

No. Auto. I am fully able to drive a 6 speed, but honestly I don't want to. I understand that means I am not a purest, but I would rather the automatic.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Hey, I'm a manual purist but as I get older I have a strong appreciation for a robust auto as well.
Shit, the S4 is dual clutch.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

This will never see a track day, snow and potentially not even rain if I can help it. I probably will drive it less than a few thousand miles per year. It is an instant collector car as I understand it. This is about fun and fun only. Practicality is out the window, or out the exhaust pipes.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Hey, I'm with you on that...
the autos are faster and can handle power better.
Either way, you're gonna enjoy it.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

That is the hope!

I chose satin steel metallic outside color, red seat belts, red brake calipers, high performance seats, polished wheels, sky cool grey inserts with black leather surfaces, moon roof, carbon packages 1 & 2, premium floor mats, parking package, 10 speed transmission, driver assist package. MSRP is just under $105,000. No need for the carbon ceramic brakes. Should be a lot of fun. Looking forward to it.

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

let's see, lots of things have to fall in place...

i got the same message... my local dealer is getting 5 in between now and November but couldn't confirm any of the options, they could only tell me that two of them would be the new green color which i don't mind, but it's the most expensive option... my absolute only requirement is a stick shift because the Vagon is already an auto... he said after the prebuilt ones come in, he will look to assigning me an allocation for a custom build... i may do the green, orange or blue in stick, other options i don't care about but i'm in no particular rush, if it's not 2022 i'm happy for a 2023...

CadiGTi

I was at a Cars N Cigars in Loudoun County Virginia a few weeks ago. This guy (in his early 30s) just took delivery of this Blackwing. Very sharp. I love the color. I asked him why he had the automatic instead of the stick. He said because he was young and people in his gen can't drive sticks. A few minutes later a lady probably in her early 40s shows up in a brand new White Blackwing and it has the 6 speed! Would love to drive one of these hot rod Cadi's!

CadiGTi

I like the look of the TLX S especially in the Tiger Pearl I saw at my local dealer. BUT, my RLX will be the last land yacht I will own as a daily driver and the TLX is just as portly. Next time I want something no bigger than an A4. It is strange that the RLX is only 2" longer than the RL. Somehow it just feels a lot larger.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

That is the color I am ordering! Only I want to polished wheels and the red calipers. Cool to see it in the wild!

CadiGTi

I like your polished wheel choice. It really is a very sharp car in that silver. I have also seen one in Shadow Grey locally that I love and is the color of my ‘19 C7. Chevy dropped Shadow Grey on the 22 C8’s but kept it for other brands and models. Is this a “forever” car for you? I think we are seeing the last few cars being engineered with real passion and the Blackwing is one of the few.
Have you consulted with a super high volume Cadillac dealer to see if they can get you an earlier allocation? I am guessing Braman Cadillac in Miami or Ed Morse in Ft Lauderdale are still super volume stores that get priority allocations.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

This is a "forever" car for sure. Considering I will only drive it in fair weather, that gives me 7 months of potential enjoyment per year so I expect to drive it no more than 5,000 miles in a given year. I'm not concerned about taking delivery before the spring time as I would not drive it in the winter anyway. My dealer of choice has direct connections to GM brass and I have been assured directly that I will get my allocation. I'm next in line. Also because I am local to the dealer, and I work with high end folks professionally, that makes me attractive to them to do business with from a referral perspective as they said. I bought the flagship Volvo in 2020 and now I am doing the same with Cadillac in 2022. The dealer is looking for a long term relationship and not just a sale. My negotiations with them was if they charge me a mark up that tells me they are trying to make the maximum profit on the transaction. If they don't, they are sending the message to me that they value me as a customer and want to build the relationship so I will brag about them to others as well as potentially buying other Cadillac products. They agreed with the philosophe and stated in writing there would be NO dealer mark up, just the MSRP. I am very happy with that. No discount needed for me to be happy. Between you an me I think it is under priced from the factory. I would gladly pay $115,000 if that was the MSRP. But my build comes out to just under $105,000 plus delivery and tax. Just last night my wife and I were talking about getting both of our kids cars next year and we are looking at either a Honda CRV Hybrid or Hyundai Tucson Hybrid for them. They are priced similarly and would provide what we want from a safety standpoint. Our youngest said "a Honda Civic Type R would be fine", to which I said that was a hard no from management. He capitulated.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

CTR is a lot of power for a kid with no experience.
All new cars have too much power for new drivers.
I would be dead if I started driving today.

phile

I remember being a new driver in a Civic taking a curve at 45mph. rookie move. thank god all of its 108hp kept me out of trouble.