Admittedly, I am a little doubtful of the success that the RLX is going to have but then I look over to the Cadillac XTS & it gives me some hope. That thing sold 3k units last month which was way above any of the full-size luxury sedans (7series, Sclass) & above all the non-BMW & Mercedes mid-level sedans (GS, M, A6) - not sure which class the XTS should go in but its numbers are impressive in either.

Looking at reviews, they strongly echo what the RLX has been getting. For instance, this from the Huffingtong Post:

I want to give the XTS the fairest shake I can. But I feel my 1st impression is telling. I honestly don't think that I would choose it, weighing it against the world-class sedans it's competing against: Audi A6, BMW 5 Series, Mercedes E Class, Lexus GS or even the Infiniti M45.

Let's start out with the hardware: The XTS is powered by a 3.6-liter V6 engine cranking out 304 horsepower. There is no V8. In truth, no 1 needs more engine or horsepower than this, though some old-school Caddy buyers may well wail for a bigger, growlier V8. They're out of luck. Better to try the Germans, or get a pickup truck or SUV while they're still powered by V8s.

You know what else you old-school Caddy folks aren't getting? Knobs. There is no tuning of the radio volume or tuning, changing the climate control or anything else with knobs. Cadillac is putting its touch-screen controls in all of its cars. Want to increase the volume on the radio? You will have to slide the digital controller with your finger across the screen as you would on an iPhone screen. You can also do this from the steering wheel, as is the case with many cars. I know a lot of 60- and 70-something Cadillac owners who are going to hold onto their old cars rather than buy a new Cadillac for that reason alone.

Minuses? There is a lack of driving confidence in the car that you would find with, say, an Audi A6. The suspension, cornering, etc. just doesn't quite measure up. It would also help matters if Cadillac could mount a consistent marketing idea around its brand and cars.

The bottom line is that while the XTS is pleasing, it doesn't please me to the point where I would choose it over the prevailing competition.

Sound familiar? So basically like the RLX, it lacks RWD & v8, has a large backseat, is priced similarly etc etc. Granted the XTS already has an AWD option but I guess my big question is: what is the appeal? I have not paid much attention to it but am quite shocked that it sells as much as it does. Does anyone think that this could bode well for the RLX? Maybe there is a market for cars like this from the under-dogs of the luxury market? Or does Cadillac just have more of a customer base in this type of cars demographic?

 

There is no way the XTS is a competitor to the A6, GS, E series and 5 series. Many also know that the XTS is a stop gap to appease former DTS owners until a new, from the ground up, flagship is introduced.

The XTS is built off of the Buick LaCrosse platform (sound familiar?).


It's a comfortable luxo cruiser but it has limited sporting aspirations, although it does offer Brembo brakes and Magnetic Ride Control.

I will say though that I do think the XTS is a bit bolder from a styling perspective than the RLX, but I will also concede that maybe I am a bit biased. As we have said before, styling is subjective.

I would like to see a head-to-head comparison between the RLX and the XTS.

 

XTS But I understand its raison d'etre.

 

Is the XTS available for rental car fleets? That could explain the sales.

 

It may be, but it is also supposed to be popular among livery companies.

 

I sat in XTS at the car show and was far from impressed, cheap materials and not a comfortable inside.

 

I drove an XTS last year when my V sedan was in for an oil change.

It's a nice update to the DTS. The warning vibrations in the seat are pretty cool. The interior was definitely not cheap. It's not a bad cruiser, but I like excitement in my drive so it wasn't for me. I'll let grammaw and grampaw buy it. That's who Cadillac is targeting with that car....people who want a big, posh cruiser and don't know the diff between FWD and RWD. Thankfully, they now also offer stuff for people who like sporting drives. Stuff like what Acura used to offer.
I can't believe I'm talking positively about Cadillac.

 

Interesting that you say that because the one very positive statement that has been made about the interiors of the new ATS and XTS is the quality of the interiors and leather quality, especially on the Premium and Platinum (XTS only) trim levels.

I have sat in both and was generally impressed, but I haven't compared it to the RLX.

I never felt that the interior of my CTS coupe (Premium trim) was a compromise from my 2nd gen RL. I feel it's as nice as what I had, but I think a lot has to do with the color too. I have been in lighter interiors and they tend to look a little cheaper than others as opposed to the black in mine with the wood trim I feel looks sharp. Then again that was the same interior combo in my RL so at least I am consistent. My CTS also came with wood on the steering wheel which I didn't have on my RL.

 

I know. I was worried about going to the domestics, but I have been pleased so far. There are some things the RL did better (AWD was more sophisticated) and there are some things the CTS does better, but overall I LOVE my car. It has a much firmer suspension that my RL, but it's probably comparable to the RL with the A-Spec package.

 

Now I was in the car for 5 min, and not even sure how equipped it was so it could be like the TL where the lower end TL has lesser leather quality than say the AWD. I know when I sat in it, I was not impressed and got out pretty quick.

 

I think the base XTS may have leatherette (vinyl), the mid trim level models have leather, and the Platinum levels have the highest quality (can't remember the name) leather that is softer. There is also more leather covered surfaces, like on the dash.

 

Figures, dealers are stupid to put base cars on the showroom floor as I sat in it, got turned off by the materials and was out of the dealership in a flash.

 

I had felt the same way before purchasing from GM. It has now been 3 years, first with the GS Vette that was rock solid and only required routine maintenance. It had close to 20K miles when it was traded for the CTS-V and never hiccuped once.

The CTS-V is approx 8 months old with close to 7K miles (no garage queen) and has been flawless. No rattles, squeaks nothing. It is much more refined than I expected it to be, runs like a beast and has only required routine maintenance.

Much to my surprise GM has come a long way and I also never thought I’d own a Caddy.

Do I think their products will be as reliable as Acura over the long haul. I doubt it, but then again who is.

 

The XTS does have a more unique styling than the RLX. So perhaps that explains somewhat its sales number?

But yea, I guess the "success" of the the XTS gives some hope to the RLX. May be, just may be, there are indeed buyers that want something like the RLX and XTS?

 

For reference, here are last month's numbers. Altho size-wise, it competes with the full-size sedans but price-wise it is more like the mid-level luxury cars. In terms of volume, it looks better in the mid-level because in the top-level, it sells 3x as much & that just looks funny to me:

5series 5,306 -2.7%
Eclass 4,009 -28%
XTS 3,061
GS 1,882 -23.7%
A6 1,746 +18.1%
MKS 925 -45.3%
M 641 -32.5%
RLX 336
RL 8 -78.2%

XTS 3,061
Sclass 1,216 +24%
7series 1,046 -18.3%
LS 980 +77.4%
A8 563 +34.7%

I never considered fleet sales but I guess it is possible for this type of car. Note also how the MKS numbers are not that bad (relative to the RL's) so maybe there is a market for FWD v6 mid-size luxury sedans? I do believe that the average age of Lincoln & Cadillac buyers are older than Acura so that may have some affect on sales as well.

 

Size-wise, yes the XTS competes with the full size sedans, but again it is a FWD based car. It is not going to be cross shopped by someone who is seriously looking at an A8, S Class or a 7 series.

 

For sure, but the point is, the XTS are RLX are fairly similar. If RLX can even get half of what XTS is getting, or 1500 a month, that's not too bad I'd say.

 

Well, one offers AWD, while the other used to have AWD.

On the other hand, we know the XTS is merely a placeholder, and Cadillac has other, wonderful products. Acura has the old TL, and it's SUVs. But none of them are really enough to forgive the RLX's money grab, IMO.

 

Fixed....

 

Isn't a business supposed to grab money? More importantly, shouldn't a business be profitable?

RLX is a way to debut new technologies that will hopefully trickle down to other models. That's about it. And although I wish the hybrid version of the RLX had been released before the P-AWS version, I think Acura had to go with what they had precisely so they could "grab" money.

 

Neither car has much appeal in my view, I will agree that they are similar in many respects though...

 

The pics of the XTS in this thread do it no justice, it is much better looking in person.

I have a routine service appt Sat morning for the TL and am looking forward to seeing the RLX in person. Because although I like the look of the RLX I bet it too will look a lot better in person.

 

I checked out the RLX in the autoshow and I thought it was better looking in person. It's still bland but I think it's quite elegant looking.

 

I agree. Also, I think the RLX has a design that will not look dated in five years or so.

 

My only issue in the pics I've seen is the wheels, I'm still having a tough time getting past them. Not really that big of a deal, interested to see if they too look better in person.

 

^^ Exactly my point about the wheels. Someone had posted a photoshop version with the ILX wheels and the car looked SO different!! If Acura wants to put bland wheel as OEM, thats fine, but why not give an option for people who wants to buy better looking wheels as accessories?!

 

^^You're right, and who knows maybe down the road they will offer an accessory wheel for the RLX.

Then again, there is always aftermarket choices available.

 

The RLX concept had really awful looking wheels. On the production version in photos, they look bland. When I saw the car in person, the wheels didn't catch my attention.

 

This is what I am wondering, I guess I'll find out on Sat when I see it in person.

 

Doesn't the RLX have some special wheels that have noise canceling abilities like the 2nd MMC RL?

That would be a consideration if you're swapping out wheels.

 

You're right, that definitely would be a consideration if it has noise cancelling wheels.. Wasn't thinking about that.

 

Isn't that actually in the wheel wells?

 

No there is a polypropylene resonator in the wheel that dampens mid frequencies. I've never experienced if it works or not. I would guess that tire choice would have a greater effect on noise.

 

I saw a black XTS a couple of hours ago while walking down the streets of downtown San Francisco. It was pretty, but had a little too much bling for me.

 

MT has done the comparision. RLX won. It is faster by 3 seconds in 0-100mph. Anything above 100mph will be embrassment for Cadi. RLX also beat XTS by 6mpg in fuel economic. there is simply no contest between two.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/specs.html


. Despite the XTS wearing big Brembo brakes, the RLX bettered it in stopping performance. Not surprisingly, the RLX delivers significantly better fuel efficiency than the XTS. EPA city/highway figures are 20/31 mpg versus 17/26, and in our back-to-back real-world driving our observed figures were even more disparate: 21.6 mpg for the Acura and just 15.9 for the Cadillac.


The XTS shines in physical presence and handling prowess, but takes a big hit because of its clunky user interface and relatively poor performance at the pump. The new RLX might lack the Cadillac's dramatic sheetmetal and doesn't hustle through the twisties with the same athleticism, but it delivers outstanding comfort, a creamy ride, a brilliant combo of speed and frugality, outstanding refinement (at highway speeds its cabin is as quiet as a tomb), and a boatload of technology that's far more accessible on a daily basis.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2RCiIgBM0

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2RCh5RXTN

 

A good review and by their own admission a very close win by Acura, but in the end a win is a win. Good for the RLX.

I am not surprised the RLX out accelerated the XTS. The XTS is heavy and it is driving four wheels compared to the RLX only driving two. I also haven't gotten a good understanding why the 3.6L in the XTS only produces 304 HP, yet the one in my CTS has 318, and the version in the ATS produces 321. I had read that it has to do with a more restrictive exhaust due to the fact that the engine is mounted transversely in the XTS (FWD platform) versus longitudinally in the CTS and ATS.

No surprises on the execution of CUE. The reviews on it have been hit and miss. I played around with it in a loaner SRX I had and when I test drove an ATS a few weeks ago. It's kinda cool, but in some cases there is engineering just for engineering sake. For example, a knob is still the tried and true way to adjust volume (when not using the steering wheel controls). The sliding bar feels more gimmicky. I understand that Cadillac is continually updating the software and updating customers cars so I would anticipate it will continue to be refined. Having said that, I think Acura does the best job with integrating the cockpit technology. They still have the best navigation and voice recognition systems on the market.

So the XTS wins in looks and handling despite the fact that the RLX has better tires (W rated in the RLX and V rated in the XTS). Sorry, couldn't help myself . The RLX wins in acceleration, interior space and technology.

Again, a good win for Acura. Keep in mind though that while the XTS is still at the at the top of the Cadillac pyramid (not including the CTS-V and the Escalade) it it still a dressed up Buick LaCrosse. I guess that doesn't matter since many here are calling the RLX a dressed up Accord. It will be interesting to see when the rumored true RWD Cadillac flagship is finally introduced.

Back to the RLX. The key is whether that win will translate into sales. Remember early on the RL came out at the top or near the top in many comparison tests. One in which it beat out the 5 series. Yet, the car ultimately languished.

Nonetheless a positive write-up that was needed given all of the others.

 

You do realize that Caddi is the AWD version. it should help in traction for superior launch.
IF RLX got tires like GS-350 F Sport or BMW M sport 535. You will not feel that much difference in handling. and Car is acknowledged as quieter than competition both Edmunds and MT confirmed it. MT rarely use Out standing refinement.
I want to see speeds above 100mph.
with superior traction of AWD upcoming RLX. i have no doubt it will be in class of 550 with fuel economy of 4 cylinder Accord. refinement in LS600h class.

 

I'm really not sure. Info I read on Honda.com said the following;

"The RLX's alloy wheels also feature a noise-reducing design that lowers tire noise by 7 decibels across the audible frequency range."
http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/ar...spx?id=7003-en

So I would assume it is more in regards to the overall design of the wheel.

On a side note I saw the Advance wheels on a demo in person on Sat while the TL was in for service, and although they are still not my taste they did look better in person than in photos.

BTW The RLX on the floor was a Nav model ($51,845) and these were the base wheels on it.


I am not a fan of the body side molding


Rear Lip Spoiler

 

Yes I know that the XTS is AWD, but P-AWS is supposed to help with the inherent handling issues of a FWD car. In this review at least, it didn't help, and it had better tires than the XTS. Something that you always say is an advantage that the RLX has.

Your comment of "if the RLX had the same tires as the GS350-F or the BMW M" is irrelevant. The RLX doesn't come with those tires and it didn't in this test.

The XTS is supposed to get a version of the TT 3.6L that is being introduced in the CTS. I would assume that will take care of the acceleration advantage the RLX has, but that has no bearing in this review, just like replacement tires for the RLX are irrelevant. I have no doubts that SH-SH-AWD will help handling in the RLX, just like the TTV6 in the XTS will help it in acceleration, but those features were not on these cars. Try sticking to the facts of this review as the cars were equipped for this test.

Lastly, while speeds of 100+ miles makes for great forum discussion, tell me how many people regularly drive at those speeds. Great for bragging rights, but doesn't matter for most folks who buy these cars.

 

P-AWS is for turns. Not for traction & weight balance like an AWD. better tires?. both are Grand touring. not some high or Max performance summer.
Acura always offer accesorry wheels.
3.6T will merely equal to RLX FWD with worse fuel economy. It will not make it more refined or reliable. High speed is very important for rapid passing and merging from 60 to 120mph.