I leased a TLX SH-AWD for a year before getting the RLX SH and I think it is a very competent car and while there are similarities in the technology there are some striking differences. The interior of the RLX is definitely a step up along with HUD, rear room and the Krell system, however the biggest difference is the transmission and there the difference isn't a step up. It might be the whole staircase! Obviously power and efficiency in the RLX are up but I still think the TLX is a great value for the driving experience you get. It just depends on your priorities.

 

You using the word "Honda" in a sentence describing pricing of an Acura vehicle is just another example of what I (and plenty of others) have been saying about the issues of differentiation between the two brands.

Whether it's Honda holding Acura back or Acura as a company/team just not being able to fire on all cylinders (I personally believe it's more of the first), the fact that people bring "Honda" into their decision process for pricing of the luxury brand (Acura) is in IMO the bigger long-term issue that they need to fix or they will continue to be eroded slowly over time. I could be completely off base, but the perception to me is that NONE of of the other "dual-personality" brands have this core fundamental branding issue.

Styling, quality control, lack of some current day luxury features, etc are just icing on the cake that have plagued the RLX from being a more successful product.

The one thing I can say that has never been an issue and is one of the very few things they got right is the performance of the vehicle. And I say that for both the PAWS and Sport-Hybrid versions. The engine and drive-train give solid performance when you ask it to. No questions asked.

 

At 30k, the RLX is a tremendous car, regardless of ANY problems.

 

Is it an advantage or a disadvantage that you open the lid and see a Honda motor?

Is it an advantage or a disadvantage that everybody knows that an Acura Legend is a Honda Legend?

It's been a long, long time, and they still can't decide.

The dealership organization is on your side of it, but American Honda and the parent company aren't convinced.

 

I don't care about the naming of the glass, engine, etc. I care about the car not falling apart after I've been driving it for some time. That's just me, though.

 

Great questions George...

For me it's an advantage in the engineering and reliability aspects. But the majority of most buyers aren't looking under the hood. They are looking at the exterior, interior, features and price. And in IMO, Honda/Acura don't offer enough differentiation in those 4 key areas. Reliability sits somewhere in that list, but I'm willing to go on the record for saying that people with the money to spend on luxury vehicles are usually leasing and are less concerned with long-term reliability over features, and styling.


I see it as a disadvantage for the reasons already discussed, which is lack of prestige through brand recognition of the luxury name and products. It's too closely tied to the standard brand.


Well, all I can say is if it hasn't been clear that the market and customers are deciding for them, then they are doomed. The TLX is showing promise, but if they don't get it together across the board and fix the branding issue, I don't see a bright future. Every other "dual-personality" brand seems to have figured out the right balance between reaping the numerous benefits of using shared platforms while still creating enough distinction and differentiation to keep business healthy on both sides of the fence, standard, and luxury.

IMO, I think American Honda simply will not stand for placing more focus, investment, etc into differentiated Acura, at the expense of allowing Honda to lose it's place as #1 in the standard brands.


You would think the dealerships, the ones who have feet on the ground, in the trenches, face to face with the buying customers each and every day, would be seen as the ones with the right perspective.

 

^ let me rephrase something: they are doomed in the sedan market. They've clearrly figured out how to capture the SUV market for some time now with the MDX/RDX combo and create the right differentiation on those products over equivalent Honda SUVs.

Although I've heard rumblings of that new Pilot being pretty damn near close to features and value over the MDX for less money.

Is the Pilot/MDX a shared platform?

 

Yes. If you have not seen the most recent sales #, Pilot is already stealing from the MDX. and its feature list is not close... it actually has MORE for less money.

But IMO MDX still looks better since Honda only gave the new Pilot 3/4 of a taillight.

 

I think the only "dual personality" luxury brands are Acura, Audi, Infiniti and Lexus. Infiniti isn't doing so well these days. Audi only recently passed Acura in sales; maybe their differentiation works because -- at least in the U.S. -- VW doesn't sell squat. There's not much to differentiate them from. Lexus has the marketing and engineering muscle of Toyota behind it, and they build nice cars that match up with what many Americans want in a premium car. But while I like to ride in them, I wouldn't want to drive (own) one.

 

I seem to be all alone in saying that I don't quite get it with the TLX.

I think they're just "okay," and not excellent the way I felt my 4G TL was excellent.

But it doesn't matter because they seemed to be ready for me to move on to something else that I *do* think is excellent.

Maybe they built the TLX for a new generation of Honda purchasers who are moving to Acura from their previous Civics and Accords. In that case, maybe the TLX looks good to them.

 

You are not alone and I totally agree with everything you said, especially about the 4G TL. I loved my 4G. It felt more solid, luxurious, big, bold, different, and boy oh boy did it have lots of road presence when it first debuted. Mine used to get tons of compliments.

I tried to like the TLX, but it seems to have more TSX genes than 4G TL. Cute little car, but I could never see myself buying one. Hell, I would much rather buy a certified 2014 RLX (even with the bad suspension and many other issues) than a brand new TLX. Like the 4G TL, the RLX is big, bold, and has a strong road presence.

I would even choose the 2016 Accord Touring over the TLX. Back in 09 when shopping for my 4G TL, the Accord wasn't even an option. Times have surely changed.

 

Your days of loving the Accord might be coming to an end, just a couple of years out.

I have heard that the next generation Accord is going to be based on the Civic platform that was just introduced.

 

That is ok. The current Accord is getting bigger and bigger.

 

Well, actually, the current Accord is a little shorter than the 8G Accord. That is one of the things I liked about it, a recognition that the Accord was getting too big, and resulting unchanged bigness inside while making the outside a little smaller.

But yeah, your point still stands.

 

We have owned 3 Accords, the last one having been retired at 202K miles. Our 9G is an amazing car for the price. Quiet, bigger inside, better ride, and it easily gets 40+ mpg highway mileage in warm weather, while being clocked at 6.6 in the 0-60 (we have the 6MT EX). It's a terrific car, and while I know and appreciate the differentiation and additional features one gets with a TLX or RLX, the absolute goodness of the Accord certainly puts pressure on the Acura models, IMO.

 

Honestly I think that's a smart move in working towards the much needed separation and differentiation between the two brands. The Accord platform is too close to the TLX/RLX platform.

 

Exactly. I remember you mentioning not to fall in love with the vehicle when I was given the SH as a loner, while the wife's MDX was in the shop. The 2 things I didn't like about the RLX was the truck room and a thin steering wheel, but then again, what the heck am I going to be carrying in there to possibly need a lot of trunk space. That's why the MDX is for. I was a great vehicle for the 2 weeks I had it, and 20 dollar fill ups I do miss.

 

There are two other RLXs in my community, both PAWS models. I have seen the black one almost weekly and the other is the same color combo as mine.
The graphite RLX was parked next to me at the market last week, and the owner saw me loading the trunk with groceries and shot out of the UPS Store he was in. He asked if mine was the 2016 as he noticed the subtle differences of the LED turn & fog lights, different wheels and the push button shifter. The LEGEND badge baffled him as he said the 'LEGEND package was not available' when he purchased his RLX.

I confirmed it was a 2016. But when I cited the trim differences being the Sport Hybrid model I got a vacant stare. He did not even know such thing existed. I pointed to the Hybrid badge on the front wing. It did not compute. He actually was flustered and grumbled his dealer never even mentioned a Sport Hybrid was available. I chose not to define 'available' as his tone had already soured.

I think he was seeking a 'bonding' moment or perhaps a chance to brag, but it went south. He rationalized the unicorn by grumbling 'I did not want a hybrid, the better mileage kills the power and performance'. I wished him well and to enjoy his ride, got in mine and silently pulled out and away in RWD E-mode.

It only brings into sharper focus how poorly Acura has brought this car to market. If an RLX owner is oblivious to the existence of the Sport Hybrid model, and what Sport Hybrid means, how could the marketplace as a whole acknowledge this car.

Personally I am enjoying the exclusivity of the car, it's multiple driving personalities and range of offerings from luxury, tech and sporting attributes. I have gotten more stares and people asking me of the car than I did with the RL. I even had a deputy follow me into the Home Depot paking lot () to ask me about the car (an Acura enthusiast, and I referred him to Acurazine) .

It makes me wonder what the experiences are of those RLX owners who have not sought out this forum. Perhaps they are islands unto themselves.

 

This past spring, I had to find a way to pack for four men driving from Washington DC to Florida.

It was tight.... Tight might be giving it credit. :-)

Other than not having a lot of luggage room, it was a very comfortable car for four adults over a very long distance.

 

My little boy wrote a Christmas card for a few days ago. On it, he listed some of my attributes. The first item on the list was "likes cars....not regular cars, but RARE cars". I got a HUGE chuckle out of that! He understands that all of his Dad's cars including the "black Acura" are rare.

I guess I'm raising him "car guy correctly", and he'll eventually find his own unicorn(s) to care for.

The guy you met, Tampa, was likely incorrectly schooled by his salesdroid in an attempt to get yet another slow seller off his lot. Not completely his fault, though I must say your pulling off in full electric mode probably made his day. I can see him calling said salesdroid and griped that he didn't get the top of the line RLX with the "Legend" package, LOL! I agree that Acura has done a dismal job promoting the Sport Hybrid, but that's old news. To his credit, the PAWS RLX is something of a unicorn, though an unintentional one despite its being a fabulous car. Of course, we all know that there are fewer than 500 Sport Hybrids extant in North America, so they are the real unicorn.

 

Unicorns are not only rare but also mythical. Every time I sit in the drivers seat I feel like I am experiencing an out of body experience, beta status non-withstanding

 

American Honda Sets New All-Time Annual Sales Record

Jan 5, 2016 - TORRANCE, Calif.

Total combined annual Honda & Acura vehicle sales eclipse previous record set in 2007 with a 3.0 percent gain over 2014
Honda Division records its best-ever year in 2015, gaining 2.6 percent
Total Honda & Acura trucks set new all-time annual marks, up 9.7 percent in 2015
Honda CR-V maintains position atop SUV market with 4th straight annual record
American Honda also sets all-time record for month of December

American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today reported all-time record annual sales of 1,586,551 Honda and Acura vehicles for 2015, an increase of 3.0 percent to beat the previous record set in 2007. Honda and Acura truck sales also set a new annual record, gaining 9.7 percent on sales of 770,424. Honda Division sales topped last year`s record to set a new annual mark, rising 2.6 percent on sales of 1,409,386 units. Acura sales totaled 177,165, a 5.6 percent increase for the year and the division's best result since 2007.

"What better way to celebrate the "Year of Honda" than with an all-time automobile sales record," said John Mendel, executive vice president of the Automobile Division of American Honda Motor Co., Inc. "We are grateful to our customers who embraced our entire product lineup and are the true power behind the Honda brand."

Honda
The Honda Division maintained its strong momentum through the end of 2015, grabbing both annual and December all-time records for the 2nd straight year. Core models CR-V, Civic and Accord all finished strong, with CR-V setting a new annual mark, while the Pilot and Odyssey continued to flex sales muscle. The addition of the HR-V to the lineup also helped push the division to new annual heights.

CR-V set a new all-time annual record, gaining 3.2 percent on sales of 345,647 as it maintains its position as best-selling SUV in America.
Core models CR-V, Accord and Civic combined for over 1-million in sales for the 3rd straight year.
In addition to the new annual record, Honda Division sales set a new combined car & truck December mark of 134,070 units, rising 12.2 percent for the month.
Both cars and trucks set individual December records as well. Car sales were up 13.3 percent on sales of 72,839 units, while trucks gained 11.0 percent with sales of 61,681 vehicles.

"While we are excited about the all-time sales record, we continue to have incredible momentum driven by the relentless cadence of new and successful products we introduced in 2015 that will give the Honda brand tremendous energy going into the new year," said Jeff Conrad, senior vice president and general manager of the Honda Division. "With a similar pace of new products coming this year, we're anticipating a very robust 2016."

Acura
The Acura Division enjoyed its best sales year since 2007, with strong performances from both sedans and trucks. The updated RDX set a new record and MDX recorded another year of sales over 50,000, despite limited inventory in last quarter of the year. Sedans also played a key role, with the TLX leading the way to take a larger share of the mid-luxury sedan segment.

1 of the hottest players in a hot luxury SUV segment, the Acura RDX set an all-time annual sales record, climbing 13.7 percent on sales of 51,026 vehicles.
MDX exceeded 50,000 sales for the 4th straight year and continues to be the best-selling luxury three-row SUV in America.
TLX sales of 47,080 and a stronger performance from ILX as the gateway to the sedan lineup helped boost Acura sedan sales more than 18 percent in 2015.
Acura enjoyed a 4th consecutive year of sales growth in 2015 with 177,165 vehicles sold, gaining 5.6 percent for the year.
Acura truck sales exceeded 100,000 for the 2nd straight year.

"The Acura brand continues on its steady march, now 4 years strong— with both our sales and brand power gaining increasing momentum with both trucks and sedans," said Jon Ikeda, vice president and general manager of the Acura division. "Importantly for our future, Acura sedans continue to gain strength – which will be our critical focus in the next phase of our strategic plan."

 

Total RLX Sport Hybrid sales for 2014 and 2015 are now at 383 units, which is only 7% of total RLX sales in 2014 and 2015. A rare breed indeed, as we all know.

 

20 Sport Hybrids a month. No wonder they are so hard to find.

 

98 RLX *18 SH RLX

American Honda Reports January 2016 Car and Truck Sales; New Civic Leads Honda Division to January Record - Sales - Honda News

 

 

At this point, I'm honestly amazed they even sold that many...

 

Could someone explain the difference between the y over y sales rate and the daily sales rate? Not sure of the difference between the two stats.

Certainly the PAWS RLX is seeing a pretty good drop off. The SH has such small numbers it is hard to give much credence to the % changes. A MMC is needed. I am most interested in what's in store for 2017.

 

FTFY

 

It appears that over 200 Sport Hybrids have been built for the 2016MY. I was under the impression that 'maybe' 250 would be built.

I see VIN 230 built 10/2015. This is the highest VIN # I saw. They seem to shut US / CA build of RL/RLX by this time for the last decade, so I wonder if any more will be built for the 2016 MY.

I expect we have a vehicle that will be more rare than the NSX.

 

Back over 100 with 103 sold in Feb 2016, 12 of which were the hybrids.

 

RLX SH is still rarer than an old NSX, and will probably be rarer than the new NSX based on rumored production of 800 for this year. Maybe Acura should have a two-fer special....buy a NSX 2.0 and get a RLX SH at no additional charge.

 

I'm still willing to bet more than 50% of those 100+ sold each month are 2014/2015 models being blown out for a highly reduced price. It's the only way they can move the car.

I'm guessing these numbers are not specific to latest year models only, since they showed 22 TL's sold same month in 2015. Meaning that's a 2 year old car that sold new (first time buyer) from remaining inventory. If so, then that further supports my notion above of the percentage of RLX 2014/2015 models sold versus 2016 models.

 

That's about what I need to justify considering the purchasing of an NSX.

 

As long as it's a new RLX being sold/titled, it will count in the monthly total. They don't separate sales numbers by model year.

Back in June 2013, 2 Honda S2000's showed up in the monthly sales report. That car's been out of production since 2009.


And in July 2013, 1 Honda Element got sold.


Makes you wonder what some dealers have stashed away in their warehouses that they've forgotten about.

So yeah, if a dealer still has a 2014-2015 RLX and sells it, it will show up in the monthly report.

 

The RLX (in either form) will continue to be overshadowed by the cold reception to the market with an early build 2014 PAWS. That car set the reputation and it appears nothing will overcome that. Even with a few stellar reviews on the SH, they are just a few as the market attention has already gone elsewhere. I had wondered if the 2016 MY being better sorted out in both configs would reprise the car's rep in the market. But obviously it will not and cannot (based on availability).

I firmly agree (which I had not prior) that not launching the SH with the PAWS model doomed this car and soured many of the Acura loyalists who were early adopters. I feel like I am in the exact pattern as my RL. I waited until the next model year (2006) for the RL which resolved the 2005 bugs and constraints. I got the sorted 2006 just when the sales tanked. It resulted in $10K saving off sticker and IMHO the best model year of the 2nd Gen RL. My experience acquiring the SH RLX is almost identical.

 

Is it time for us to admit that RLX "sales" are largely irrelevant?

:-)

 

Acura's attention went elsewhere almost immediately after the RLX was released. Focus went to TLX. Now it's on NSX.

The lack of advertising doesn't help either. I haven't seen an RLX ad/commercial since the 1st year it went on sale. Maybe it's different in other regions?

 

I think we can all agree on that, though this thread is still relevant. Acura has obviously already moved on. My great hope is that all the quiet on the RLX front means a FMC RLX (Legend?) will be ready when my lease is done next year. Otherwise, only the MDX piques my attention from Acura. I'll most likely be picking up a 3G CTS-V as a DD if Acura can't scratch my itch by then.

 

Don't tease me. That CTS-V is car porn!