RLX Sales
Suzuka Master
Joined: Oct 2001
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The absolute value of the $ is the same for everyone, the relative value is different. The point is/was that people often say different things than they actually do ("I can't afford $299/month" when they obviously can).
Suzuka Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,172
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From: Atlanta, GA
MPG benefits vs. extra cost are what some buyers will do, if the payback for the hybrid is 5 years and they flip cars every 3 then unless they want the handling and performance gains they won't buy. Some will buy because they want to save the environment, some will want the sports performance, but most will pass unless the money equation works over how long they plan on keeping the car.
6G TLX-S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,227
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From: YVR
.....
Obviously there is no 'one' answer to any of them but I suspect (so this is my opinion only) that image and vanity plays a large role. Take fuel costs for example. Driving that 15 MPG SUV is a way of showing the world that you're affluent enough to spend $500 a month on gas, but is not 'politically correct' to brag about that so you bitterly complain about the cost of gas.
For someone looking to buy a $70K car, the cost of fuel isn't likely going to be a problem. But the image projected of being wasteful might be. Thus, saying that 'it's a hybrid and gets 30 MPG' might be a way to rationalize an irrational purchase.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Oct 2001
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Unfortunately for the RLX, if shaking off "the projected image of being wasteful" is the major selling point for a $70K premium sedan, then the $70+K, ZERO-emission, 4.2s 0-60mph, Tesla Model S sedan seems to be a much better choice and a much better excuse to rationalize an irrational purchase than the $70+K, ULEV-2 rated, hybrid RLX.
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 198
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From: VA
Why do people who make $500K a year still bargain like buying a TSX is taking their last nickle? Why do people complain endlessly about fuel costs still buy MDXs or Escalades? Why do supercar buyers who will never take the car to the track care if one if .02 seconds faster from 0-60 or that it has a top speed of 180 vs. 185 in a land of 65 MPH limits?
Obviously there is no 'one' answer to any of them but I suspect (so this is my opinion only) that image and vanity plays a large role. Take fuel costs for example. Driving that 15 MPG SUV is a way of showing the world that you're affluent enough to spend $500 a month on gas, but is not 'politically correct' to brag about that so you bitterly complain about the cost of gas.
For someone looking to buy a $70K car, the cost of fuel isn't likely going to be a problem. But the image projected of being wasteful might be. Thus, saying that 'it's a hybrid and gets 30 MPG' might be a way to rationalize an irrational purchase.
Obviously there is no 'one' answer to any of them but I suspect (so this is my opinion only) that image and vanity plays a large role. Take fuel costs for example. Driving that 15 MPG SUV is a way of showing the world that you're affluent enough to spend $500 a month on gas, but is not 'politically correct' to brag about that so you bitterly complain about the cost of gas.
For someone looking to buy a $70K car, the cost of fuel isn't likely going to be a problem. But the image projected of being wasteful might be. Thus, saying that 'it's a hybrid and gets 30 MPG' might be a way to rationalize an irrational purchase.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2005
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Unfortunately for the RLX, if shaking off "the projected image of being wasteful" is the major selling point for a $70K premium sedan, then the $70+K, ZERO-emission, 4.2s 0-60mph, Tesla Model S sedan seems to be a much better choice and a much better excuse to rationalize an irrational purchase than the $70+K, ULEV-2 rated, hybrid RLX.
You'll Never Walk Alone
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From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Unfortunately for the RLX, if shaking off "the projected image of being wasteful" is the major selling point for a $70K premium sedan, then the $70+K, ZERO-emission, 4.2s 0-60mph, Tesla Model S sedan seems to be a much better choice and a much better excuse to rationalize an irrational purchase than the $70+K, ULEV-2 rated, hybrid RLX.
Tesla S 85: $74k (0-60mph: 5.4s)
Tesla S P85: $84k (0-60mph: 4.2s)
All of the above prices are AFTER applying the federal tax credit.
To match the RL Advance in terms of features, you'd also need the following at the very minimum:
Tech Package: $3500
Parking Sensors: $500
Ultra High Fidelity Audio: $2500
Extended Leather Wrap: $2500
Including the above for the P85 model and the total is $94k after tax credit. That's excluding the $1000 interior light package, $750 weather package, $2700 high power home charging.
For me, $94k vs $70k is quite a difference. Don't you think so?
Suzuka Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,803
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I love the look of the Tesla S. But we need to be honest, if Acura introduced the exact same body style, people would complain about rear seat ingress/egress and headroom.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
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Unfortunately for the RLX, if shaking off "the projected image of being wasteful" is the major selling point for a $70K premium sedan, then the $70+K, ZERO-emission, 4.2s 0-60mph, Tesla Model S sedan seems to be a much better choice and a much better excuse to rationalize an irrational purchase than the $70+K, ULEV-2 rated, hybrid RLX.
It is the performance plus with Pilot Sport tires that can do 0-60 in 4.3 second.
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/design
I think if even Accord coupe gets Pilot Sport
it will be under 5 second car.
i can safely assume that with same set of tire setup RLX Hybrid will be faster than Tesla.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._verification/
he SP model we're testing adds extra power (416 hp and 443 lb-ft versus 362 hp and 325 lb-ft), sport-tuned traction control, nicer interior materials, and carbon-fiber aero trim. Add to that two significant option boxes checked for our test example: a $1500 giant glass sunroof and no-cost Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires wrapping 21-in wheels -- hence that lateral grip.
Eeek -- all of our testing, including a few dragstrip runs just for photography, had consumed 13 miles. And the car's computer was predicting that at the abusive rate we were going, our Model S was only good for another...40 miles. A 265-mile range? Is this really possible?
Even with the A/C off (but with ventilation on), cruise control set at 65 mph, and the body lowered on its air suspension, the car's range prediction quickly went sour. Out came the iPad and iPhone maps to nervously ponder shortcuts to the I-5 prior to San Diego.What was happening?
The total range -- adding the unused 4 miles, would be 238. Yes, 238 is 11 percent short of 265. Moreover, it was done while being very stingy with performance (for the most part). Is that 265 actually valid? If you drive predominately at highway speeds, then probably not. But were we to have included more medium-speed roads (long stretches at 45-50 mph) well, possibly
he SP model we're testing adds extra power (416 hp and 443 lb-ft versus 362 hp and 325 lb-ft), sport-tuned traction control, nicer interior materials, and carbon-fiber aero trim. Add to that two significant option boxes checked for our test example: a $1500 giant glass sunroof and no-cost Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires wrapping 21-in wheels -- hence that lateral grip.
Eeek -- all of our testing, including a few dragstrip runs just for photography, had consumed 13 miles. And the car's computer was predicting that at the abusive rate we were going, our Model S was only good for another...40 miles. A 265-mile range? Is this really possible?
Even with the A/C off (but with ventilation on), cruise control set at 65 mph, and the body lowered on its air suspension, the car's range prediction quickly went sour. Out came the iPad and iPhone maps to nervously ponder shortcuts to the I-5 prior to San Diego.What was happening?
The total range -- adding the unused 4 miles, would be 238. Yes, 238 is 11 percent short of 265. Moreover, it was done while being very stingy with performance (for the most part). Is that 265 actually valid? If you drive predominately at highway speeds, then probably not. But were we to have included more medium-speed roads (long stretches at 45-50 mph) well, possibly
RLX will exceed its high way mileage of 30mpg.
6G TLX-S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,227
Likes: 1,181
From: YVR
Tesla S 60: $65k (0-60mph: 5.9s)
Tesla S 85: $74k (0-60mph: 5.4s)
Tesla S P85: $84k (0-60mph: 4.2s)
All of the above prices are AFTER applying the federal tax credit.
To match the RL Advance in terms of features, you'd also need the following at the very minimum:
Tech Package: $3500
Parking Sensors: $500
Ultra High Fidelity Audio: $2500
Extended Leather Wrap: $2500
Including the above for the P85 model and the total is $94k after tax credit. That's excluding the $1000 interior light package, $750 weather package, $2700 high power home charging.
For me, $94k vs $70k is quite a difference. Don't you think so?
Tesla S 85: $74k (0-60mph: 5.4s)
Tesla S P85: $84k (0-60mph: 4.2s)
All of the above prices are AFTER applying the federal tax credit.
To match the RL Advance in terms of features, you'd also need the following at the very minimum:
Tech Package: $3500
Parking Sensors: $500
Ultra High Fidelity Audio: $2500
Extended Leather Wrap: $2500
Including the above for the P85 model and the total is $94k after tax credit. That's excluding the $1000 interior light package, $750 weather package, $2700 high power home charging.
For me, $94k vs $70k is quite a difference. Don't you think so?
Doesn't ZERO-emission sound even "cooler", when there aren't too many ZERO-emission premium sedans on the roads even today.
Let's put it this way. Will a fully loaded hybrid RLX sound "cooler" than a ZERO-emission premium sedan ?
So there is no such need to equip the Tesla S to the same feature level as the RLX, in order to "sound cool".
Even the $65K ZERO-emission Tesla S60 will have the "sound cool" mission sufficiently accomplished, over any premium sedan equipped with internal combustion engine.
Last edited by Edward'TLS; Aug 9, 2013 at 01:51 AM.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,172
Likes: 740
From: Atlanta, GA
I like the exterior look, but that huge touch screen console distracts form the lines of the interior.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,172
Likes: 740
From: Atlanta, GA
I can see how they might. With all that instant torque available from the electric a sticky tire is important.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 182
With the amount of resources necessary to extract Lithium, the resources necessary to charge the battery and the eventual consequences of disposing of "spent" lithium the "Zero Emissions" is a myth.
The recycle ability of an RLX far exceeds the abilities of the contents of a Tesla, not just including the Lithium.
The ramifications of electric vehicles has not yet been comprehended. It reminds me when they told us that "fusion" would create an endless supply of free electricity.
The recycle ability of an RLX far exceeds the abilities of the contents of a Tesla, not just including the Lithium.
The ramifications of electric vehicles has not yet been comprehended. It reminds me when they told us that "fusion" would create an endless supply of free electricity.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Likes: 64
4.2 second is with tire upgrade. Tesla website wrongly associated with all season setup which is 5.4 second model. $105K is way more for car that needed 21inch wheels and only pulling 0.92g. not to mention any performance driving sharply reducing range. and its big inconvenience like charging cellular phone often. RLX will comes with big fuel tank. and with hybrid good enough fuel economy for 10 days worth of city driving.
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
But you also mentioned that new gadgets (such as the PAWS) were ""there to sound "cool" so buyers can have something brag about.""
Doesn't ZERO-emission sound even "cooler", when there aren't too many ZERO-emission premium sedans on the roads even today.
Let's put it this way. Will a fully loaded hybrid RLX sound "cooler" than a ZERO-emission premium sedan ?
So there is no such need to equip the Tesla S to the same feature level as the RLX, in order to "sound cool".
Even the $65K ZERO-emission Tesla S60 will have the "sound cool" mission sufficiently accomplished, over any premium sedan equipped with internal combustion engine.
Doesn't ZERO-emission sound even "cooler", when there aren't too many ZERO-emission premium sedans on the roads even today.
Let's put it this way. Will a fully loaded hybrid RLX sound "cooler" than a ZERO-emission premium sedan ?
So there is no such need to equip the Tesla S to the same feature level as the RLX, in order to "sound cool".
Even the $65K ZERO-emission Tesla S60 will have the "sound cool" mission sufficiently accomplished, over any premium sedan equipped with internal combustion engine.
Sure, Zero-emission sounds cool.
Not sure about the others, but Krell, Sports Hybrid Super Handling AWD, torque vectoring, lane departure warning, etc, they all sound cool to me too! In that case, to me, there are more "coolness" in the RLX?
And when you back down to the $65k Tesla S60, then a $49k RLX is just as fast, if not faster....There's still a sizable price gap.....
With that said, I've always been telling my friends that, if I had the money to choose between a E Class, A6, 5 series, or Tesla S, I would pick the Tesla S. It sounds cool, it looks cool, it IS cool, and not everyone drives it.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,920
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4.2 second is with tire upgrade. Tesla website wrongly associated with all season setup which is 5.4 second model. $105K is way more for car that needed 21inch wheels and only pulling 0.92g. not to mention any performance driving sharply reducing range. and its big inconvenience like charging cellular phone often. RLX will comes with big fuel tank. and with hybrid good enough fuel economy for 10 days worth of city driving.
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,196
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From: Southeast Michigan
... And here we go again with the claims that tires are the silver bullet to increase 0-60 times. Yes good tires will help you on the track and slalom, even on the skidpad, but the extent of benefit that a performance tire will have on the 0-60 stat is reducing wheel spin at launch and the RLX isn't such a torque monster that it's going to be laying patches. . Maybe a tenth at the most.
If it were that easy people would be forgoing cold air intakes, tunes and other mods and instead just buying new tires.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2005
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... And here we go again with the claims that tires are the silver bullet to increase 0-60 times. Yes good tires will help you on the track and slalom, even on the skidpad, but the extent of benefit that a performance tire will have on the 0-60 stat is reducing wheel spin at launch and the RLX isn't such a torque monster that it's going to be laying patches. . Maybe a tenth at the most.
If it were that easy people would be forgoing cold air intakes, tunes and other mods and instead just buying new tires.
If it were that easy people would be forgoing cold air intakes, tunes and other mods and instead just buying new tires.
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,196
Likes: 95
From: Southeast Michigan
Oh I know, I included the wrong quote. It wasn't directed at you. It was directed at the person making the claim and I know that the discussion was about the Tesla, but SSFTSX was claiming that even the Accord would get dramatic improvements with the PS2 tires.
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,196
Likes: 95
From: Southeast Michigan
Different tires maybe will knock off a tenth of a second if wheel spin is an issue....MAYBE.
Even a tune/chip might only knock off a couple of tenths of a second off of the 0-60.
If you want to be knocking off greater than a 1/2 second you better be introducing some forced induction or other major modifications to the engine.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
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website is clearly wrong. associating 4.3 second claim with all season tire setup. There is no way on earth it can achieve those numbers with all season tire setup.
What tire is this car tested?
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...lete-specs.pdf
There is another important revelation in above test. as at 0-120mph Tesla S is either slower or comparable to Accord Sedan/Coupe. Extremely poor aerodynamics. rear tire is 265 wide. electric range only 211 mile. fall short of 265 claim. and than add higher price and low reliability. car will be essentially in junk yards after warranty done. Medicore ride for luxury car for this price.
TL-SH-AWD can pull higher gs with just tire 245 width.
What tire is this car tested?
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...lete-specs.pdf
There is another important revelation in above test. as at 0-120mph Tesla S is either slower or comparable to Accord Sedan/Coupe. Extremely poor aerodynamics. rear tire is 265 wide. electric range only 211 mile. fall short of 265 claim. and than add higher price and low reliability. car will be essentially in junk yards after warranty done. Medicore ride for luxury car for this price.
TL-SH-AWD can pull higher gs with just tire 245 width.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Likes: 64
Accord is very close to sub 5 second time. Just upgrade the tires along with lighter sport rims.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2013...e-package.html
With a lowered ride height, sport suspension and more performance-oriented tires, the HFP kit definitely provides more controlled body motions and enhanced stability," said Lee Niffenegger, program senior engineer at Honda Performance Development, in a statement.
With a lowered ride height, sport suspension and more performance-oriented tires, the HFP kit definitely provides more controlled body motions and enhanced stability," said Lee Niffenegger, program senior engineer at Honda Performance Development, in a statement.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,920
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The Tesla is 1000lbs heavier!
Something looks fishy about the 0 to 120 time for the Tesla
What tires does the Accord have to get 5.5 0 to 60? Put PS2a on the Accord and it suddenly does 4.6/4.7? I just don't see that.
Something looks fishy about the 0 to 120 time for the Tesla
What tires does the Accord have to get 5.5 0 to 60? Put PS2a on the Accord and it suddenly does 4.6/4.7? I just don't see that.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2008
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RLX is slower than Accord 60mph but at 120mph it pretty much catch it despite RLX being 500lbs heavier.
Here is Accord coupe. Remember Accord Coupe comes with heavier 235 size All season setup on 18 inch rims.
125mph comes at 3600rpm.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...d-ex-coupe.pdf
6G TLX-S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,227
Likes: 1,181
From: YVR
Whoa, you just changed the whole focus from 0-60mph in 4.2s to "cool factor." Nice.
Sure, Zero-emission sounds cool.
Not sure about the others, but Krell, Sports Hybrid Super Handling AWD, torque vectoring, lane departure warning, etc, they all sound cool to me too! In that case, to me, there are more "coolness" in the RLX?
And when you back down to the $65k Tesla S60, then a $49k RLX is just as fast, if not faster....There's still a sizable price gap.....
With that said, I've always been telling my friends that, if I had the money to choose between a E Class, A6, 5 series, or Tesla S, I would pick the Tesla S. It sounds cool, it looks cool, it IS cool, and not everyone drives it.
Sure, Zero-emission sounds cool.
Not sure about the others, but Krell, Sports Hybrid Super Handling AWD, torque vectoring, lane departure warning, etc, they all sound cool to me too! In that case, to me, there are more "coolness" in the RLX?
And when you back down to the $65k Tesla S60, then a $49k RLX is just as fast, if not faster....There's still a sizable price gap.....
With that said, I've always been telling my friends that, if I had the money to choose between a E Class, A6, 5 series, or Tesla S, I would pick the Tesla S. It sounds cool, it looks cool, it IS cool, and not everyone drives it.
But the "ZERO-emission" factor IS.
Anyway, I admit that I made a mistake on thinking the 0-60 time for the $70+K Tesla S was 4.2s.
So the $65K Tesla S60 is 5.9s, and the $74K Tesla S85 is 5.4s. Will these slower 0-60 times suddenly turn the fortune around such that all potential Tesla buyers will now go and buy the RLX instead ?
Remember back in posts #474 and #478, it was YOU who started the talk on "bragging right" and "looking cool". It was not ME who brought them up.
I merely refocus on what you always believe, just as you pleased.
My original focus was on the $70+K Zero-emission Tesla S, with the $70+ YES-emission hybrid RLX.
Then you changed the focus on comparing the gadgets and features between the 2 premium sedans. Since when the slow-selling fully-loaded RL/RLX has become the class benchmark for all other premium sedans to compete against, such that all other competitors have to be so equipped in order to challenge the fully-loaded RL/RLX ?
When you have changed focus from "ZERO emission" to "equipment level", I too can change focus to, not out of thin air, but whatever you believed previously.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,920
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1000lbs heavier shouldn't matter for 0-120mph timings. it has all the torque of electric power.
RLX is slower than Accord 60mph but at 120mph it pretty much catch it despite RLX being 500lbs heavier.
Here is Accord coupe. Remember Accord Coupe comes with heavier 235 size All season setup on 18 inch rims.
125mph comes at 3600rpm.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...d-ex-coupe.pdf
RLX is slower than Accord 60mph but at 120mph it pretty much catch it despite RLX being 500lbs heavier.
Here is Accord coupe. Remember Accord Coupe comes with heavier 235 size All season setup on 18 inch rims.
125mph comes at 3600rpm.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...d-ex-coupe.pdf
and, so putting PS2's on that Accord drops it to sub 5s??
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2008
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AFter two runs thing get slower. battery power is so weak that only two 0-60mph can be done at max performance. and towards the quarter mile the power taperoff. It is not like Honda engine that power deliver increases with higher rpm and superior aerodynamics at higher speeds.
The car is noiser than RLX and not much better handling considering the tires.
http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s...st-specs1.html
21-Inch Silver Wheels With High-Performance Tires ($3,500)
As you would expect in an electric car with a ton of instant torque, the Tesla gets off the line in a hurry, and with zero wheelspin. The seemingly endless forward thrust does level off toward the end of the quarter-mile. First and second runs were quickest. After that, times get slower despite plenty of remaining charge, most likely because of heat buildup in the motor's starter. By the 6th and final run it had dropped of by 0.3 second.
21-Inch Silver Wheels With High-Performance Tires ($3,500)
As you would expect in an electric car with a ton of instant torque, the Tesla gets off the line in a hurry, and with zero wheelspin. The seemingly endless forward thrust does level off toward the end of the quarter-mile. First and second runs were quickest. After that, times get slower despite plenty of remaining charge, most likely because of heat buildup in the motor's starter. By the 6th and final run it had dropped of by 0.3 second.
and, so putting PS2's on that Accord drops it to sub 5s??
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,196
Likes: 95
From: Southeast Michigan
As Bob said, don't bother. The guy has no clue and compares stats that have no bearing on each other. The only thing he hasn't done yet is say that certain colors make cars faster.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2008
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surely no clue. some one claim that Tesla is faster and better value than RLX or RLX Hybrid. when entire performance/handling of Tesla depends on PS2 and extra width rear tire. with out PS2 it will be even slower than Accord. and after quarter mile all the surge taperoff and car ends being slower. Also Tesla is noiser.
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,196
Likes: 95
From: Southeast Michigan
surely no clue. some one claim that Tesla is faster and better value than RLX or RLX Hybrid. when entire performance/handling of Tesla depends on PS2 and extra width rear tire. with out PS2 it will be even slower than Accord. and after quarter mile all the surge taperoff and car ends being slower. Also Tesla is noiser.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2005
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surely no clue. some one claim that Tesla is faster and better value than RLX or RLX Hybrid. when entire performance/handling of Tesla depends on PS2 and extra width rear tire. with out PS2 it will be even slower than Accord. and after quarter mile all the surge taperoff and car ends being slower. Also Tesla is noiser.
You pick the car and we will see who wins
Safety Car
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