Spoke with my dealer's GM yesterday. He said that he can not get '16 RLX from the factory any longer. He has to source from other dealers. There seem to be more Hybrids than Paw-s in stock in New England.

He defected my question about '17 RLX.

 

This is typical for this model.

For the last 7 years the low volume of the RL & RLX have resulted in a build out of the model year in advance, controlled distribution of the build out and eventually 'take what you can get' after the build out completed. The US spec RLXs were built out built out from March 2015 to April 2016. The SHs were built out May 2015 to November 2015 and from the best I can determine, about 350 were built for MY 2016. The PAWS version built about 1700.

As typical no news on the next model year (2017) until they are nearly about to launch. There are just over 200 new RLXs out there (total PAWS + SH). And assuming they plan to sell them into Jan 2017, that is about 30 / month to sell. I even saw a few 2015 and 2014 'new' VINs out there. That would coincide with a fall launch of the 2017 MY. If they continue the RLX in one for or another for 2017, I would not expect any significant changes as they did address most of the early model issues with the 2016 MY. One possible change may be the addition of features offered on the JDM and Korean spec models. I noted the Korean LEGEND is a rebadged RLX (i.e. FWD PAWS but had the LED turn signals and fog lights of the SH.

 

Just guessing... any new RLX will be based on Acura's Precision Concept design:

Precision Concept previews the future of Acura design [w/video] - Autoblog

Maybe that's why the dealer didn't / couldn't say much.

I figure Acura wouldn't apply it to the TLX or ILX, and the NSX2 is out already. The RLX flagship is the logical first choice.

 

^^^^^^^
The new corporate face is appearing on the MDX first.

The dealer deflected because Acura doesn't tell dealers much, either, until close to release. He likely didn't know and (bluntly) didn't care about a difficult to sell, unpopular car that he'd have to worry about taking up space in his dealership. Just saying.

 

The new grille was 1st introduced on the Chinese CDX, then the MDX - both 2017 models. The next model likely to bear the new grille will be the FMC ILX , then FMC RDX and the the FMC TLX. The RLX has an additional constraint as it would need to be modified to represent Honda as the LEGEND. The NSX will likely be the last to adopt this grille, if possible with the current structure of the car's nose.

 

^^^^
I was referring to the US market, but Tampa is correct.

 

I think you are right. The GM was eager to talk about all the suvs he has sold this year and the fact that he sold his two allocated NSXs already. There are plenty of car dealers within 30 miles. I am planning to test drive a number of large sedans this summer as my lease ends in October.

 

I don't expect to see significant changes to the Legend/RLX line until 2019.

 

Looks like my guess was way off! Thanks for the info.

 

The rumor way back in 2014 from an "insider" over on TOV was that the Acura Planning Group's first goal was to improve the RLX. At the time it was said that maybe Acura would do an "emergency" refresh for the RLX akin to what Honda did with the 2013 Civic for My2015/2016. Obviously that hasn't happened - the RLX did get updates but nothing all that major. Interestingly at around the same time (2014) there were rumors on TOV that Acura was benchmarking the BMW 4 series for a coupe model that, again according to rumor at the time, was potentially coming to market in 2015. Obviously that hasn't happened either - and the Accord Coupe got a Touring model. We also had the MDX MMC designer say that he had about 2 years of lead time for the MMC design - which would have been sometime in mid/late 2014.

I I guess there are two possible conclusions here:

1.) Acura started work on the RLX MMC at the same time as the MDX MMC and it's coming for My2017.

2.) Acura didn't release a coupe because they realized they couldn't meet benchmarks with their current (assuming TLX-based) product so they started over.

2b.) Acura realized similar things when they started looking at benchmarks for the RLX and so they started all over on that product too and so no MMC is forthcoming. The next change in the RLX will be a full FMC.

Dave Marek also said that there would be "changes and more changes" to the lineup. Acura has also, more recently, said that the RLX is not the kind of product they want in that space. Those two concepts are hard to marry together because I'm not sure what Acura could do to the current RLX to significantly change its nature. Also - as others have mentioned - the current RLX is tied to the current Legend. Another rumor from the "insider" is that Acura wants to produce the RLX in Ohio which makes a lot of sense.

Its just hard to know how fast Acura is going to move here. After the debut of the Precision Concept and all kinds of hints about longitudinally mounting the engine - I think it would be disappointing if Acura debuted an "All-New" RLX that didn't have a long engine layout and was based again on the Accord platform. It would also be somewhat disappointing if the first sedan to get the Precision Styling was an MMC that wasn't 100% new and able to fully capture the spirit of the design. It would also be somewhat strange if the first "all-new" sedan with Precision Styling was the ILX. But then again - an MMC allows Acura to sort of soften the beachhead a little bit before wholesale changes and Acura also doesn't seem to be wasting much time here.

I guess I tend to think that the RLX won't change until an FMC because they just can only do so much to change the RLX to what they might want.

 

[QUOTE

I guess I tend to think that the RLX won't change until an FMC because they just can only do so much to change the RLX to what they might want.[/QUOTE]

The shame of it is that the RLX concept is incredible. I loved the AWS. I guess i will chalk this up to an equivalence to art creation. Great writers can write doggerel, great artists can paint junk, and car makers can make a lemon (but that's too harsh), really the RLX is just a car for which all the parts just didn't add up to the design synergy of a great car to be a greater "whole".

I never wanted the small trunk of the Hybrid. I use my trunk too much. Plus, I didn't like driving the hybrid in eco. The RLX is what I wanted, with the big back seat, great highway mileage and in the Advance all the features that I want. But Acura needs to make the car "special" (sounds like I'm writing for Hallmark) so you get that magic feeling going down the road in the first 30 seconds. I really believe the RLX is a GREAT car, but it wasn't great enough to take on an car payment, and so I kept my old one. Still, I expect an Acura to be my next car, as I am one of the smitten, and turned down an A6 because I liked the RLX more. But what I really learned is that I like a Mercedes kind of ride more than the Audi kind. I would like that type of ride in the new RLX. The Hybrid can have the sport ride.

 

^^It is possible/likely that any MMC or FMC of the RLX will include adjustable/variable dampers similar to the Active Sport Suspension of the new MDX Sport Hybrid. This should allow you to tune the ride to your liking - soft and smooth for cruising and tight and responsive for pushing the car harder in Sport Mode.

 

.

There is another rumor that Acura wants a SUV higher than the MDX. I think that the "car" they want in that space.

The Precision Concept is just a design exercise. Acura will be OK with only two sedans and the TLX being the top sedan with strong Precision Concept overtones and a coupe added. Allows more separation between the ILX and TLX.

 

I'd trade out for a RLX with adaptive damping. I've said before that it's awesome on my CTS-V and if Acura can tune it for the MDX, they can tune it for the RLX. That'd give a little more value for dollar for what they are charging.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondamore

^^It is possible/likely that any MMC or FMC of the RLX will include adjustable/variable dampers similar to the Active Sport Suspension of the new MDX Sport Hybrid. This should allow you to tune the ride to your liking - soft and smooth for cruising and tight and responsive for pushing the car harder in Sport Mode.

Because I want the bigger car, I did drive a Chevy SS with manual transmission. The Magnetic (magnetorheologic) suspension had three settings: Touring, Sport, and Track. I would drive in touring 99% of the time, and love it. That car was smooth, easy to drive, and effortlessly powerful, but it had a boy racer look to the interior that didn't fit me, the road noise was way too much, the gas mileage abysmal, and one last (not so) niggling thing, the battery took up space in the trunk right where golf bags should tuck in for easy storage. If Acura could match that variable ride, and fix the the slow response on the infotainment center, it would resolve my issues. I don't mind the exterior looks of the current RLX at all, consistently noting that it looks much more formidable in person than it does in photos. (formidable to be pronounced "four mee dab" with a french accent.

 

Why do we think they did not continue to develop the magnetically controlled suspension that was on the ZDX?

 

^^^I can't speak for the ZDX suspension, but the adjustable suspension in my wife's '07 MDX has had issues with the dampers causing all four to need replacement. I was told (pure hearsay from the Acura sales manager I deal with) that the dampers did not perform well and were not durable in VERY cold weather (which we have around here in spades) and thus the failures. FWIW, Acura paid for the damper replacement on a 9 year old MDX thanks to an "extended limited warranty" related to the dampers and likely thanks to my loyalty to buying their brand (and the likelihood that I'll be buying a new MDX Sport Hybrid in a year or two).

It could be that similar problems with the ZDX caused Acura to pull the plug until a better solution could be found.

Just my two cents.

 

^^^^
Once again, sounds like a partnership between the folks who make the magnetorheological suspension for GM (Beijing West Industries, which purchased the tech from Delphi, who developed it) and Honda would be mutually beneficial.

 

This is an interesting discussion regarding the RLX suspension. I have never had a car which had this feature so I don't have a frame of reference to comment much on it.

I can confirm though that Acura [Honda] has not forgotten about this feature. Shortly after I took delivery on my Sport Hybrid I was contacted by Acura and asked for input on my car. One of the topics I was asked about was adjustable adaptive damping. Since I was smitten with the driving characteristics of the car and had no experience with this feature, I responded that it wasn't something I thought was important [in regard to the Sport Hybrid]. If I were being asked about this and had a PAWS, I probably would have had a different response.

 

I would prefer to have an adjustable suspension in my Sport Hybrid. It would allow me to soften up the ride for long highway trips or when I'm taking friends out somewhere and a smooth, quiet ride is paramount AND allow me to stiffen up the suspension for those rare moments when I feel like kicking the car into Sport Mode and having some fun driving near the limit. The Sport Hybrid already has a dual personality of Smooth Luxury and Borderline-Scary Sportiness and an adjustable suspension would simply magnify that effect further.

 

^^^^
I think the 2016 is pretty close to achieving both with the changes they made, without adding the adjustable suspension. When you first start to drive it aggressively you feel it is a little soft, but then the car becomes very planted......at least that is the feeling i get.
I am really happy with how the suspension is setup on the 2016s, but i have never driven a 2014 SH just my 2015 P-AWS.

 

Now THAT'S not something I was expecting to hear about the Sport Hybrid. I've never considered the Sport Hybrid one of those cars that feels like it's going to kill you every time you step into it, like a Viper.

 

Nothing borderline about being scared in a Viper.

I apologize for the hyperbole - an accurate description of the Sport Hybrid's "sporty side" escaped me at the time of the post and I returned to my first experience with Sport Mode and first gear.

 

I understand and wasn't trying to be harsh. I just need a good belly laugh after a long day yesterday. . I've actually driven a Viper and I thought I was going to die the whole time!

I do agree about the Sport Hybrid's Jekyll and Hyde sides you are trying to describe. My fervent fever-dream is for Acura do put the same engine/hybrid setup the NSX has, in some future iteration of the RLX....really, a car that is indeed a little scary/exciting? to drive, above what we already have. Wouldn't that be incredible? It would instantly put Acura back on the sedan map.

 

The NSX engine is incredibly expensive. It's custom cast by Cosworth and costs a LOT of money.

I completely agree with your assertion that Acura should do what they can to have the NSX engine in a mainstream vehicle - but the engine will have to change before that happens because it's simply to expensive right now. The RLX would have to cost over $100,000 for this to happen. Also that market (large luxury sedans) is getting eaten alive by large SUVs.

My particular fever dream is for Acura to keep the sedan lineup basically right where it is with the ILX running from $29-40K, the TLX from $35-55K and the RLX from $50-70K. Then Acura brings two coupes into the fold: A small Integra 3-door hatch and a large Legend 2 door coupe. The Integra would share it's underpinnings with the ILX (which is going to be based on the CTR) and run from $32-45K and be their accessible sport vehicle with 6MT and AT versions and have no hybrid version. The Legend would be built alongside the NSX at the PMC and start somewhere north of $80,000. It would be a 4-seat coupe, with an all-electric version, a "base" Sport Hybrid with the rumored 3.0T, and then future version of the NSX powertrain that isn't quite so costly.

 

Keep in mind that the NSX is a rear wheel drive ICE with two electric motors on the front wheels. I'd be happy with a supercharged version of the current ICE providing 375+ hp plus the electric motors. I don't think it is reasonable to expect the car to be a rear wheel drive ICE.....too much redesign and against what Honda has staked out for their formula [the NSX is an exception both in price point and design but also a halo car].

 

When they first came out, so many of them were going off at the end of Turn 1 (Summit) that we thought there must be a design problem with the brakes.

We never really figured it out, but it doesn't seem to happen any longer.

Of course, I've also seem enough BMW 3-something upside down at the end of Turn 3, I'd suspect a design problem with those, too.

:runs away:

 

All of you guys have awesome ideas, but i doubt Acura would do anything different with the RLX-Legend. As for them using the NSX engine in any other current or future model, is highly unlikely. It was designed around the NSX and for the NSX......
I am a simple man, i would just like to have a "Normal" mode in-between the "Eco" and "Sport" mode:-)

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgeorg

....
I am a simple man, i would just like to have a "Normal" mode in-between the "Eco" and "Sport" mode:-)

^^^^
Love it. And, I would like the Lithium Ion battery packaged better, or with a denser design, so as to add space to the trunk, without sacrificing interior space.

 

I think that is something that they can achieve in the very near future.

 

At what cost? Aren't batteries in short supply? I assume a more dense battery package would be even more in demand and perhaps even more expensive.

 

Great point! I would imagine just like everything else battery technology would be more advanced now, then when they designed and build the SH....

As for their availability, that i do not know......did the earthquake have anything to do with that?

 

I'd be interested in a smaller, more dense battery, too, for more trunk space. To be honest, I'm probably "in" when then next generation of the Sport Hybrid tech from Acura is released. I'm positive they are working on it. At least one car with a flashy exterior wouldn't hurt to get the tech accepted faster.

in the meantime...I'd love to see a SH MDX in real life to check out how the battery is packaged,

 

You mean the part of the design that resides between the pedals and steering wheel, sitting on a seat?

*runs away faster*

 

I'm sure they're looking at it, but there's an important decision to be made.

The ½ decade cycle for redesign...is long enough that we might be able to skip 2nd generation Sport Hybrid and move right on to Performance Electric.

A lot of things have to come together for this to happen. Smaller batteries, better controls, safety redesign with heavy batteries in mind and, most of all, the *availability* of everything to do with the batteries.

But I can see it as a viable possibility, and this is one of the reasons I do not think we're going to see a redesign of the Legend anytime soon. I think it's going to run the full cycle...at least the full cycle...and then maybe 2018-2020 we'll see the first Legend Performance Electric.

Maybe it's a pipe dream, but I can see it happening.

 

I has been suggested by someone in the know that the next RLX flagship sedan will have four electric motors independently controlled offering torque vectoring at the front AND rear wheels. His suggestion was that it would be powered by a next generation fuel cell recharging the batteries for the electric motors with OODLES of torque. The quote from the purported Honda insider:

4-door coupe with big grill.

next gen. FCV with a big next gen. Li battery and Plug-in.

AWD 4 In-Hub electric motors with torque vectoring.

400-500hp with 1000 lb-ft.

30 mile EV only range(in eco mode) and 600-700 mile range total.

2.6-2.8 sec 0-60 and beat most cars on track because of 4 wheel torque transfer

Battery located flat under seats so doesn't take space from trunk or cabin!

 

That sounds like a huge leap forward.

Torque vectoring on all four wheels, though?

Not both ends at once, I would think. What happens when you try to do that is that one wheel will correct, which forces the opposite wheel at the other end of the car to correct, which forces the opposite wheel at the first end to correct, and it goes on forever with the net result of slowing the car.

I wonder whether this could be true, or if they're only going to vector left/right at the front *or* the rear, and not both ends at once.

I guess you could do it if you had a much stronger computer than the ones we see right now. :-)

 

 

Some observations about this video: 1. It sounds like he feels the Wankel engine makes more sense than the piston engine, since it "starts with rotating" motion. Right then I knew he was a bit of a fool.

2. When the video was over, there was a multi square of photos of links to other topics, including Swedish bikini fitness girls. Thanks, George.

Of course the internal combustion engine had had a long run. It's almost shocking how long it's been the standard. I still wonder if fuel cells can become practical enough to become the standard, but I keep having to remind myself how much energy it's going to take to keep creating Hydrogen.

Uh oh. I hope those links weren't related to my past usage.