Happy Monday folks!!
I have a question about DCT shifting. My understanding was that the conventional DCT have a certain clunky behavior especially at low speeds and in stop and go traffic. I was also under the impression that Honda has somehow mitigated this behavior of DCT and have smoothened out these shifts.
Over the past week I have been noticing that when the ICE kicks in at low speeds, such as pulling away from a light, I can feel the lower gears shifting much more obviously. If I am pulling away under higher load this is not as obvious. It is almost as though the transmission hesitates before shifting and can be felt through at least 2 or 3 shifts all under low load, 20-40mph and RPM 1.5-2.5RPM. I can feel the shift. Normal behavior or time to go in? Did not feel this when I got it first at 4k miles, now have close to 8k miles on it.

 

I think we all become more 'aware' and sensitive to the hybrid system as time goes on.

I am not sure if what I describe is the same as your experience, but when leaving a stop and light throttle the car is in EV mode (unless you are set to SPORT). I barely get through an intersection when the ICE kicks in. Aside from the engine growl, it simply feels like a typical tranny shift. I feel that every time the ICE kicks when accelerating but not when cruising steady. I could almost describe it as a slight 'slingshot' feel.

Now keep in mind, under 50mph, the Sport Hybrid is looking to switch to EV mode whenever possible. That is a mix of many variables including speed, load, throttle input and battery level. Then at constant speed it is trying to maximize VCM under similar parameters.

I can sense some of these, but you really need to feather the throttle to find those 'decision' points where the software is controlling the drivetrain. Under moderate to aggressive throttle, it all just joins the party. If you want to go really nutz, try getting the car launching on a slick surface and throw in VSA to the mix and your realize the car is driving by committee. I try to watch the monitor to match the sensation to the display. Frankly they all feel like a tranny shift or slight bump from the rear when it switches power sources and particularly hunting to pop into EV mode.

That said, being the first introduction of this Sport Hybrid system, I find it sophisticated, well done and have little to criticize. And Honda did similar with the SHAWD launch in the RL. Every time I ride in another hybrid, or even an ICE powered car with Start / Stop I am reminded how well SH is.

 

Tampa,

That is the best description yet. I could not figure out how to describe it any better.

 

For me i am ok with the EV-ICE transition, Honda has executed this exceptionally well!
The one thing i feel the most is the VCM transition.......i can feel it every time it happens.
That does not bother me much, but i know its there.
What does bother me more is the half a sec to a sec delay it has when you push the gas pedal to the floor to accelerate. Of course this does not happen in Sport mode, so i think it is the VCM that is causing this. I might be wrong though, and its just the way the car behaves in regular mode.

 

Also does anyone know if the DCT in the SH, built in house by Honda?

Thanks.

 

Yes. It is not alone the transmission as it also has an electric motor integrated. This is unique to the Sport Hybrid technology.

http://news.honda.com/newsandviews/a...ion&id=6982-en

The system combines a highly efficient, direct-injected V-6 engine with an all-new, Acura-designed, 7-speed dual clutch transmission with built-in electric motor and an electrically powered variant of Acura's highly regarded torque-vectoring Super Handling All-Wheel Drive (SH-AWD).

http://news.honda.com/newsandviews/a...spx?id=7476-en

 

Like you, I notice and wonder about some shift habits at moderate throttle.

The only answer seems to be to put your foot down more, or less.

When discussing this with a Honda representative, I had to admit that I honestly could not recall whether this was always a problem, or if it developed as the miles piled on.

It is also possible that we start driving the cars differently as we get to know the cars, which means we notice the shifting more.

Regardless, they should work on this for future programming of both the 7 and the 9 speed DCT since they are going to be using more of them.

 

Yes I am noticing the quirks more and more as I live with this car. Close to 5k miles in and I definitely have a better feel for this car in terms of what it can and cannot do.
The last 1-2k miles have tempered my excitement a little bit. One of the issues that I am having a problem coming to terms with is the advertised power numbers. I feel the combined HP and TQ numbers are a reach. Yes, theoretically, "at all systems go" the numbers may correspond to actual real world feel of how much power is at hand. In most situations though the power availability is no different than the base with available power of only the ICE.
This is especially true on the freeway while merging or overtaking. The surge of power does not appear to be linear, especially at immediate throttle tip in.
Overall still satisfied for this to be my daily driver. My inner Senna is not satisfied though....eyeing the '17 GT-R for weekend duty...lets see if the wife will approve!

 

Ouch! Something can't be right. You just said everything that I think is the complete opposite of many of our experiences. If the GTR is in your budget, by all means get it as we only live once. However, I have to respectfully disagree about your characterization on its power delivery and available thump the go peddle has available. I get compliments all the time from others I have in the car who don't know what it is who own much more expensive and higher rated hp/tq automobiles. It is a very typical response I hear after just a few minutes in the passenger seat. My business partner drove the Blackbird over the weekend and said that he really enjoyed my car more than his, and his is a MB S550. His barge is drowning in luxury and it in a completely different league, but he is questioning his choice having spent more than 2X and has had lots of troubles with it. I'm sorry this is your impression so far.

 

Hey Rick, I think that a lot of your issues can be solved by simply using the Sport button with more frequency.

The "normal" mode of this car is designed for smooth and quiet driving with a priority given to fuel economy. If you seek more get up and go, the Sport button will transform your Sport Hybrid into the type of acceleration that you covet without the delays in acceleration that you mentioned and with instant, quick, crisp shifts and bigger torque boosts from the electric motors.

My advice would be to leave your Sport Hybrid in Sport mode for a week and then reassess the performance. You'll be buying a lot more gas and you'll be missing the "limousine" smooth ride, but your inner Senna will at least be somewhat more satisfied.

Just my two cents.

 

Interesting. I feel the opposite, that perhaps 377 HP is downgraded a bit, as evinced by the sub-5.0 0-60 times so many of us are getting.

That is very quick for such a big car.

As someone above said, I think you might be experiencing the delay between mashing the pedal and noticing the power come on, when you're not in Sport Mode.

This annoys me, too, and inasmuch as I am able to do it, I try to be in Sport Mode ahead of passing a car on a country road or otherwise needing the car's full potential.

You'll notice the button for Sport Mode even has some braille on it so you can do it quickly, without looking.

;-)

Yes, I think you're experiencing the perceivable and annoying delay between the time you mash the pedal and the car gets itself together. You won't feel this in Sport Mode.

 

You know, I've never liked the GT-R.

I drove the inaugural year and haven't driven one since, so perhaps they are improved.

But at the time I found them very rough and, while quick and fast, not very pleasant to drive.

You should try to parallel park one of them. The moans, squeals and gnashing of gears that you hear is just simply...phenomenal.

 

I am very happy for you.

 

Yes, I agree with you. I recommend you drive a 2012 and up. Especially the '16. They have made incremental improvements that have all added up to make it more civilized. You are not going to have whiplash just by changing gears anymore. I dare say it is actually rather soft now.

 

Dont get me wrong guys. I like this car. But it cannot masquerade as a sports car. It is great for the purpose that I want it to serve, i.e., an awesome highway cruiser that chews up miles without much fuss, has great mileage for a car this size and with the available power. It is a good all rounder. The drivetrain technology is awesome but needs some work. I actually feel bad for the future MDX owners with the proposed puny 3.0 liter engine mated to this technowiz drivetrain. Based on my experience, and what you guys recommend, unless you are mashing it all the time you are basically driving a 3.0 liter pulling a 5k pound SUV(in the future MDX).

Also I agree it goes nuts when pushed all the way in sports mode. That was not my complaint. It is in day to day driving when I want power with just a little throttle input. It is lacking in that sense.

All said and done I will still recommend it(without reservations) to anyone interested in a large luxo-barge with a great balance of comfort, power and gas efficiency. But it doesnt figure on the top of the list for any of those attributes.

 

I have never experienced any car that did not have some magnitude of compromises, and this one is not exempt from that. I can't think of a time in which I felt that this car was sluggish or under powered, but the drive train is a little quirky I will grant you that. It definitely does not have the butter smooth delivery you would expect, but it is because of its unique qualities and turbine smoothness when giving it at least 50% throttle input that I think it is the cats nuts. Any car that can accelerate this quickly and has this amount of mass, has to have serious power delivery, which it does. I'm not saying this is all that unusual these days, but keep in mind that the NSX in the 90's was lauded as an affordable super car and it was actually slower than the SH in most testing, while weighing 1,500 lbs less.

 

Who said it was a sports car? Not even Acura used the word sport in the Acura.com homepage list of models. It is their 'Luxury Flagship'. Even the TLX is 'Performance Luxury Sedan'...no sports car reference.

Yes people want a Flagship powerful, but that does not define it as sports car. Acura defines 'Sport Hybrid' as 'Powerfully Efficient' which, until hybrid technology expanded to include performance improvements without efficiency penalty was....an oxymoron.

Have you tried changing the Reactive Force Pedal setting? That may alter the immediate tip in you are seeking. My experience with cars that have immediate tip in (Infinities come to mind) that they tend to lurch in slow speed traffic crawling or parking lot hunting. I like to feather the throttle sometimes and I believe the RLX was tuned that way intentionally. If you think the RLX tip in is slow, you would have hated the RL. With the RL you stomp the pedal, count 1-2-3- then it launched.

There may be another reason for the perceived delay. DCTs have a reputation for hard shifts at times. The SH DCT was designed with the pancake motor integrated which enables smoother and more seamless shifts - along with e-drive launching from a stop. I find the DCT well done. Yes, sometimes feathering the throttle when a power source change is occurring will sometimes 'psyche out' the software decision making. But a clumsy shift in the RLX is more rare then what I experienced in Audi DCTs.

If the SH RLX was to be a sports car, there would be no need for the NSX.

 

That was a good idea, to adjust the reactive force pedal. I adjusted mine so long ago I didn't even think of that.