Colin: When Will Hybrid RLX Be Available?
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 152
Likes: 21
From: Cincinnati, oh
I, for one, applaud Acura for choosing to endure the crap they are taking now with the SHAWD RLX rather than risk selling a car with a possible flaw. I'm still frustrated, but I'd rather they take this approach than sell the 200 units and then recall them. The good news is that I expect my 2016 model year SHAWD RLX to be well tested and perfected.
The senior management and their public relations office appear to be without scruples.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,971
Likes: 1,021
From: Western Canada
I am of the opinion that the suspension problem you mention was a batch of bad bolts or a careless employee on the assembly line. Acura did issue a recall when they were made aware of the problem and informed all owners of the problem and replaced the bolts. If you search the automotive world, you will find that this response from Acura is much better than the industry standard (GM usually waits until the wrongful death lawsuits pile up before issuing recalls for example). Furthermore, I believe the RLX has not been built/shipped for some time and so it does appear that Acura is double checking the integrity of their assembly process (probably related to more than just the bolt issue).
I don't want to diminish the problems and potential dangers that the person who had a suspension bolt failure has endured and suffered, but I feel that Acura's response has been prompt and correct. I'm the farthest thing from an automotive expert, so that is just my opinion/observation.
I don't want to diminish the problems and potential dangers that the person who had a suspension bolt failure has endured and suffered, but I feel that Acura's response has been prompt and correct. I'm the farthest thing from an automotive expert, so that is just my opinion/observation.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,172
Likes: 740
From: Atlanta, GA
I am of the opinion that the suspension problem you mention was a batch of bad bolts or a careless employee on the assembly line. Acura did issue a recall when they were made aware of the problem and informed all owners of the problem and replaced the bolts. If you search the automotive world, you will find that this response from Acura is much better than the industry standard (GM usually waits until the wrongful death lawsuits pile up before issuing recalls for example). Furthermore, I believe the RLX has not been built/shipped for some time and so it does appear that Acura is double checking the integrity of their assembly process (probably related to more than just the bolt issue).
I don't want to diminish the problems and potential dangers that the person who had a suspension bolt failure has endured and suffered, but I feel that Acura's response has been prompt and correct. I'm the farthest thing from an automotive expert, so that is just my opinion/observation.
I don't want to diminish the problems and potential dangers that the person who had a suspension bolt failure has endured and suffered, but I feel that Acura's response has been prompt and correct. I'm the farthest thing from an automotive expert, so that is just my opinion/observation.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,842
Likes: 1,430
From: NC
Another Delay
So rumor has it that the last NSX testing crash had something to do with the RLX hybrid delay. If true, there may be another 1 as the NSX caught fire while testing yesterday:
Last edited by TSX69; Jul 24, 2014 at 08:48 AM.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,971
Likes: 1,021
From: Western Canada
All F1 fans are certainly aware of the overheating issues related to KERS units and high-performance batteries. This looks to be something along those lines. Hopefully, this occurred when they were pushing the car past its performance limits to determine the safest maximum levels of power recovery and battery storage.
Alternatively, maybe they were testing the maximum boost levels that the turbos could withstand or something of that nature or they were just a second or two off the lap record so they decided to crank it up "just a bit more".
This is all my wishful thinking that it wasn't something with the basic hybrid system or I might be looking at the 2017 SH-SHAWD RLX for my next car.
Alternatively, maybe they were testing the maximum boost levels that the turbos could withstand or something of that nature or they were just a second or two off the lap record so they decided to crank it up "just a bit more".
This is all my wishful thinking that it wasn't something with the basic hybrid system or I might be looking at the 2017 SH-SHAWD RLX for my next car.
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,729
Likes: 1,807
From: Tampa, Florida
^^^
As much as I would like to agree, I think it is wishful thinking. Those type of tests are usually done in my private venues so the failures and even the identified thresholds for failure can be controlled and managed as internal specs. The Ring is about showing off, seeding the market interest and collecting bragging specs. The Ring is the world stage for the automotive industry. Tripping on the steps when attempting to collect your prize is not what was intended. I doubt any manufacturer appreciates dirty laundry on the Ring for the world to see. Just because they pretend to disguise the car in zazzlewrap they know clearly these tests will be caught motoring press and made available to all as a 'controlled leak'.
As much as I would like to agree, I think it is wishful thinking. Those type of tests are usually done in my private venues so the failures and even the identified thresholds for failure can be controlled and managed as internal specs. The Ring is about showing off, seeding the market interest and collecting bragging specs. The Ring is the world stage for the automotive industry. Tripping on the steps when attempting to collect your prize is not what was intended. I doubt any manufacturer appreciates dirty laundry on the Ring for the world to see. Just because they pretend to disguise the car in zazzlewrap they know clearly these tests will be caught motoring press and made available to all as a 'controlled leak'.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,971
Likes: 1,021
From: Western Canada
You're right Tampa, Honda has plenty of egg on it's face, but the NSX isn't the first supercar to flame out on The Ring - so they are all pushing/exceeding their limits trying to show off. Performance hybrids are still quite new technology, so I'm sure it won't be the last car on fire at the Ring.
The real stinker for us is if Honda decides they have to take a step back and retest everything in their performance hybrid stable - AARRRRGGGHHHHH.
The real stinker for us is if Honda decides they have to take a step back and retest everything in their performance hybrid stable - AARRRRGGGHHHHH.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,971
Likes: 1,021
From: Western Canada
I read reports stating that the fire started in the very back of the car which makes me hopeful that the issue was a turbo issue and not a battery issue or anything related to the hybrid system. Of course this is all just speculation at this point.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,842
Likes: 1,430
From: NC
AutoNews: Delayed till Late 2014
Once the TLX sedan is introduced this fall -- replacing both the TL and TSX in the lineup -- Acura will be in a product-launch lull.
All its volume products will have been launched in the last 3 years, so other than the upcoming NSX supercar, the brand will be carrying over existing product for several more years.
Of course, there will be midcycle changes, which could include installation of new 9- and 8-speed transmission technologies, but the sheet metal is going to remain relatively the same across the lineup for several years.
Acura also is studying bringing some sporting flair back to the rest of the lineup with the Type S designation, but how it plans to increase its vehicles' performance is being determined.
Here is a look at Acura's future product plans.
ILX: A redesign of the Honda Civic derivative comes in spring 2017. Whether Acura chooses to use a Honda Earth Dreams engine or switch to 1 of the new turbocharged mills is undetermined. The current ILX is critically underpowered, so Acura may vote for the turbo.
The Acura TLX will replace the TL and TSX sedans.
TLX: The redesigned 2015 TLX mid-sized sedan, unveiled at the 2014 New York auto show, will replace the TL and TSX sedans in the U.S. lineup. The TLX shares a 2.4-liter base engine with the Honda Accord, but the TLX's mill has higher compression ratios, a 2-stage intake and a modified exhaust. The base TLX engine generates 206 hp. It's 1.5 seconds quicker in 0 to 60 mph than the outgoing TSX. The TLX's 290-hp, 3.5-liter V-6 engine is shared with the MDX and RLX and gets 5 mpg better highway fuel economy than the outgoing TL. Both the 4- and 6-cylinder cars will have standard 4-wheel steering; the V-6 has optional Super Handling All-Wheel Drive, or SH-AWD. It goes on sale this fall, with pricing expected to be released closer to launch.
RLX: Redesigned in summer 2013. A hybrid version of the sedan was to arrive in dealerships this spring but has been delayed until late 2014.
NSX: Acura's sports car will be as much about technology as performance when it arrives in the 1st half of 2015. Instead of a monster engine, the NSX will have a compact, direct-injection V-6 combined with a lithium ion battery pack for power. The Sport Hybrid SH-AWD system uses 2 integrated drive units at the rear wheels connected to a motor-generator that delivers power. Regenerative brakes will capture electricity and then deliver torque to the outside wheel -- while absorbing negative torque from the inside wheel -- as the car goes through a corner. Development issues with the new-generation hybrid may delay the launch.
RDX: Redesigned in spring 2012. Expect the next version of the crossover in calendar 2018, with a midcycle change in spring 2015.
MDX: Redesigned in summer 2013. Expect the next version in calendar 2019, with a midcycle change in mid-2016.
The Acura TLX will replace the TL and TSX sedans.
TLX: The redesigned 2015 TLX mid-sized sedan, unveiled at the 2014 New York auto show, will replace the TL and TSX sedans in the U.S. lineup. The TLX shares a 2.4-liter base engine with the Honda Accord, but the TLX's mill has higher compression ratios, a 2-stage intake and a modified exhaust. The base TLX engine generates 206 hp. It's 1.5 seconds quicker in 0 to 60 mph than the outgoing TSX. The TLX's 290-hp, 3.5-liter V-6 engine is shared with the MDX and RLX and gets 5 mpg better highway fuel economy than the outgoing TL. Both the 4- and 6-cylinder cars will have standard 4-wheel steering; the V-6 has optional Super Handling All-Wheel Drive, or SH-AWD. It goes on sale this fall, with pricing expected to be released closer to launch.
RLX: Redesigned in summer 2013. A hybrid version of the sedan was to arrive in dealerships this spring but has been delayed until late 2014.
NSX: Acura's sports car will be as much about technology as performance when it arrives in the 1st half of 2015. Instead of a monster engine, the NSX will have a compact, direct-injection V-6 combined with a lithium ion battery pack for power. The Sport Hybrid SH-AWD system uses 2 integrated drive units at the rear wheels connected to a motor-generator that delivers power. Regenerative brakes will capture electricity and then deliver torque to the outside wheel -- while absorbing negative torque from the inside wheel -- as the car goes through a corner. Development issues with the new-generation hybrid may delay the launch.
RDX: Redesigned in spring 2012. Expect the next version of the crossover in calendar 2018, with a midcycle change in spring 2015.
MDX: Redesigned in summer 2013. Expect the next version in calendar 2019, with a midcycle change in mid-2016.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 344
Likes: 10
From: DuBois,Pa
"Acura also is studying bringing some sporting flair back to the rest of the lineup with the Type S designation, but how it plans to increase its vehicles' performance is being determined"
This was the most important thing I got out of the article. Yes Acura, Yes!!! Bring back the Type-S cars!!!
This was the most important thing I got out of the article. Yes Acura, Yes!!! Bring back the Type-S cars!!!
Last edited by Type-S RPh; Jul 29, 2014 at 08:02 AM. Reason: punctuation
Azine Jabroni
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 9,243
Likes: 2,226
From: Austin, TX
"Acura also is studying bringing some sporting flair back to the rest of the lineup with the Type S designation, but how it plans to increase its vehicles' performance is being determined"
This was the most important thing I got out of the article. Yes Acura, Yes!!! Bring back the Type-S cars!!!
This was the most important thing I got out of the article. Yes Acura, Yes!!! Bring back the Type-S cars!!!
...never happening
Cruisin'
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 21
Likes: 13
Speculation or fact?
Ok, so it's now the 1st of the month and time once again to call my Acura dealer and see if they have any info on the RLXh that I put a deposit on in February.
After missing so many deadlines, I really wasn't expecting anything. My dealer contact was unavailable (probably embarrassed that he would have to tell me there was going to be yet another delay).
I decided to call a different dealer in the area and see what glimmer of hope they could offer me. To my great surprise, they actually had some specific info that I haven't seen or heard elsewhere and thus consider the following speculation until it can be verified.
Here's what I was told:
1. The RLX Sport Hybrid will be land at dealerships in December of of this year as a 2014. I said you mean a 2015 and he said no a 2014. With less 2014 RLXhs available than dealerships, he felt that the exclusivity factor would allow Acura to get away with selling a 2014 in December. He also had a price for the car with the Advanced trim of $66,848.
2. In January 2015, Acura will start production of the 2016 RLXh which will start arriving at dealerships in March 2015. The only new feature he knew about was a long overdue heated steering wheel. He "hoped" that Siri Eyes Free would also be included.
After missing so many deadlines, I really wasn't expecting anything. My dealer contact was unavailable (probably embarrassed that he would have to tell me there was going to be yet another delay).
I decided to call a different dealer in the area and see what glimmer of hope they could offer me. To my great surprise, they actually had some specific info that I haven't seen or heard elsewhere and thus consider the following speculation until it can be verified.
Here's what I was told:
1. The RLX Sport Hybrid will be land at dealerships in December of of this year as a 2014. I said you mean a 2015 and he said no a 2014. With less 2014 RLXhs available than dealerships, he felt that the exclusivity factor would allow Acura to get away with selling a 2014 in December. He also had a price for the car with the Advanced trim of $66,848.
2. In January 2015, Acura will start production of the 2016 RLXh which will start arriving at dealerships in March 2015. The only new feature he knew about was a long overdue heated steering wheel. He "hoped" that Siri Eyes Free would also be included.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,971
Likes: 1,021
From: Western Canada
From what we can glean from this site and others, the 2014's have already been built and are sitting around awaiting any "changes" or glitch fixes that Acura has deemed necessary before selling them. I'm not certain, but I believe they HAVE to sell them as 2014's since they were built a while ago.
Even though it is looking like an even longer wait for the RLX-H, at least we have some information.
Even though it is looking like an even longer wait for the RLX-H, at least we have some information.
Banned
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 175
Likes: 51
From: Toronto, Ontario
67k seems like a high price for what the RLX offers. You can do better with the new Infiniti Q70L or the Lexus GS. Perhaps, the dealer will be giving out some good incentives to sell the RLX. But at 67k their is no point of me upgrading from my 2011 RL Advance, to and RLXh.
Racer
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 485
Likes: 58
Jump from 2014 to 2016, skipping 2015? That seems preposterous!
And $67K with questionable design elements? They'll sit for a while until they're heavily discounted except for MAYBE the hardcore Acura enthusiasts.
It sounds like Moe, Larry and Curley are making the corporate decisions...
What a cluster fork!
And $67K with questionable design elements? They'll sit for a while until they're heavily discounted except for MAYBE the hardcore Acura enthusiasts.
It sounds like Moe, Larry and Curley are making the corporate decisions...
What a cluster fork!
Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,971
Likes: 1,021
From: Western Canada
Any speculation about the pricing of the hybrid RLX is just that, speculation. Until we get an official release from Acura, all the numbers out there are just best guesses (even from Acura dealers). That said, if the hybrid RLX comes in at $67K loaded up, history tells us that it won't be long before they are available for $60K and, at that price, I'll be all over it as it represents a great value in performance and luxury.
Of course, if I test drive the new TLX SHAWD and fall in love with it because it seems very similar to my RL, then I may just have to get the TLX and have $15K left over to buy my wife a nice shiny bobble.
Of course, if I test drive the new TLX SHAWD and fall in love with it because it seems very similar to my RL, then I may just have to get the TLX and have $15K left over to buy my wife a nice shiny bobble.
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 152
Likes: 21
From: Cincinnati, oh
Price
67k seems like a high price for what the RLX offers. You can do better with the new Infiniti Q70L or the Lexus GS. Perhaps, the dealer will be giving out some good incentives to sell the RLX. But at 67k their is no point of me upgrading from my 2011 RL Advance, to and RLXh.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,258
Likes: 88
From: NY
And to top it off, a 4 door Chevy can match it's performance for bout half the price.
And back on topic, I am less curious about the RLX-E price as I am interested in the kind of performance testing that will be done well before the car starts selling. If this thing can hold on to the road with no rails and stop on a dime, I may consider getting one in the future.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,842
Likes: 1,430
From: NC
AutoNews
$67k puts it where the GS & Q70 hybrids top out at. It seems like you get more for your money with the RLX however: 19" wheels, SH-AWD, heads up display, LED head & fog lights ...
The GS & Q70 sell ~10 per month so I would be surprised if the Acura RLX SH-SH-AWD does anything more after the initial sales rush.
Anyhoo, a few weeks ago AutoNews said that the hybrid would be out in August, now it says later this year *surprise surprise* :
Acura Hopes AWD Helps It Recoup Sales
Acura expects its improved, next-generation all-wheel-drive technologies in 2 upcoming sedans to help make up lost ground from a delayed product launch as the brand chases a full-year U.S. sales increase, Mike Accavitti, the luxury brand's general manager, said.
The brand is seeking to recover from a delayed launch of the Acura TLX.
Through July, Acura sales slipped 2% to 90,431 vehicles. That knocked it off pace to beat the 165,436 vehicles it sold in 2013, which marked a 6% gain over 2012, amid an overall market up 8%.
A re-engineered Super Handling All-Wheel Drive system, or SH-AWD, will be offered as an option on the mid-sized TLX sedan that hits dealerships in August. And a Sport Hybrid SH-AWD system will debut in a hybrid version of the flagship RLX sedan later in the year.
The new SH-AWD for the TLX is more compact, lighter and more responsive than the prior generation of the technology, Accavitti said. Key improvements include:
* A smaller profile eliminates the cars' center hump.
* Lower weight boosts fuel economy.
* Re-engineered actuators reduce drag and enhance dynamics.
Honda Motor Co.'s premium brand expects the improvements to pull in new customers and help offset double-digit U.S. sales declines in June and July caused by the delayed launch of the new TLX, Accavitti said.* Lower weight boosts fuel economy.
* Re-engineered actuators reduce drag and enhance dynamics.
"Our June sales and our July sales are below our plan," Accavitti said, declining to give a specific full-year sales target. "We hope to make that up through the rest of the year."
Acura spokesman Atsushi Ohara said the TLX was delayed to ensure the performance of its new electronics and drivetrain hardware, including new engines.
Acura sees SH-AWD, which provides better grip and sharper handling, as a signature technology setting its front-wheel-drive vehicles apart in a field dominated by German rear-wheel-drive rivals. The TLX is the 1st vehicle getting the new version; the MDX crossover uses the previous generation technology.
The Sport Hybrid SH-AWD, which teams 2 electric motors to deliver more control and horsepower, will be a cornerstone technology in the RLX and NSX sports car due next year.
"This is something we think we can wrap our brand around. And we're taking a look right now and analyzing how we can do that and communicate it," Accavitti said. "It's a space that we own. And it offers the customer a distinct benefit."
Engineers trimmed 8% off the height of the latest SH-AWD system, thereby eliminating the center hump, and achieved a 2% reduction in drag, Acura says. They also delivered a 25% weight reduction, partly by eliminating the planetary gear, using a single-motor design and integrating the lubrication pump into the main assembly.
"It's really improved in every way," Accavitti said. "We were able to remove the hump out of the floor. That's a really important thing for our customers. It's a competitive advantage."
Acura pairs SH-AWD with its Precision All-Wheel Steer system, standard-issue on 2-wheel-drive TLX and RLX models, to deliver what executives say is superior maneuverability.
The all-wheel steering system angles rear wheels independently of each other.
Both technologies provide a responsive feel distinct from both standard fwd and rwd vehicles, Accavitti said. "It's a very unique experience," he said. "We think that some consumers are going to prefer it to a rear-wheel-drive offering."
Acura may use SH-AWD on other nameplates down the road, but cost is an issue. Acura dropped SH-AWD as an option for its RDX crossover and now equips that vehicle with the more pedestrian awd system used in the Honda CR-V.
Accavitti said expanding SH-AWD's use "is certainly something that we would want to look at."
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 152
Likes: 21
From: Cincinnati, oh
Chevy
16k is more than a couple of bux and judging by the reviews it doesn't have the Ferrari performance.
And to top it off, a 4 door Chevy can match it's performance for bout half the price.
And back on topic, I am less curious about the RLX-E price as I am interested in the kind of performance testing that will be done well before the car starts selling. If this thing can hold on to the road with no rails and stop on a dime, I may consider getting one in the future.
And to top it off, a 4 door Chevy can match it's performance for bout half the price.
And back on topic, I am less curious about the RLX-E price as I am interested in the kind of performance testing that will be done well before the car starts selling. If this thing can hold on to the road with no rails and stop on a dime, I may consider getting one in the future.
Grandpa
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,596
Likes: 2,609
From: Virginia, Besieged
I don't know how much credence to give this, but I have heard from two people who are normally well placed for this kind of thing, that the RLX SH-AWD will not be priced at where we were previously told.
I heard that it is supposed to be closer to what a regular RLX Advance cost in 2014, and the 2015 RLX Advance will be less than it was priced in 2014.
For whatever that is worth. :-)
One psychological problem they face is that everybody knows there are improvements to the NAV and AcuraLink systems for 2015, and they think that the 2014 RLX SH-AWD is not going to look as forward thinking as it might have looked if it had got here on time.
I heard that it is supposed to be closer to what a regular RLX Advance cost in 2014, and the 2015 RLX Advance will be less than it was priced in 2014.
For whatever that is worth. :-)
One psychological problem they face is that everybody knows there are improvements to the NAV and AcuraLink systems for 2015, and they think that the 2014 RLX SH-AWD is not going to look as forward thinking as it might have looked if it had got here on time.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,258
Likes: 88
From: NY
If you must drive and show to impress, obviously the Chibli will get the job done.
Only reason I chimed in is because you mentioned Ferrari, which in my mind is a super car brand.
2015
Racer
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 485
Likes: 58
Bad Omen
This cluster fork shows no sign of imminent resolution. I'm surprised no major reviewers haven't "chimed in" on this meltdown.