RLX-Sport Hybrid

Ok tonight while driving home from dinner with my wife, without warning the check engine light, a brake warning message and parking brake light started blinking. No change in driving dynamics and I was doing nothing out of the ordinary prior. I turned off the car and restarted it. It did not fix it. After getting home and the car sat for a while, I turned it on again, and the same lights are still on. I turned on the parking brake and released it, but nothing changed. Before going to the dealer, should I take the negative terminal off the main battery to reset the system? Could it just be a fluke message and it will resolve itself like the old gas cap was loose kind of messages I had in my last two Acuras from time to time? Any ideas? I appreciate any guidance over the weekend if possible. Thanks!

Colin

Speaking with our service adviser, he suggested NOT disconnecting the 12V battery. His first thought was that this might be down one cell or getting low. It needs to be tested on the tester at the dealership, but when the 12v goes down, it throws all kinds of erroneous lights.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Good Morning!

Colin, thank you very much for checking into this for me. I think I had a momentary blip soon after I picked up my car where I had similar warning light displaying a hybrid system fail, but nothing changed in any way and the light disappeared soon after by itself. I stopped by the dealer at that time and they checked the main battery and said it was low on charge so they charged it and I was good to go. Maybe I need the main battery to be replaced under warranty as it may be defective, or could the way I drive it be more of the cause? I drive primarily in eco or non-Sport Mode. They said at the time that if I had another problem they would gladly switch it out for me. Of course they have no other customers with my car so I am in beta territory regarding any issues.

I can't help but wonder if I am the cause since of the problem, since I drive with at least 10-40% of my miles in EV mode which would of course not be charging the main battery when I am traveling those miles. Maybe a solution is to drive in Sport Mode more often so that the alternator is running for longer periods of time? I will try that today and see if the problem resolves. So when I drive my wife and kids to the mall today for Mother's Day and I "have to" be in Sport Mode (for charging purposes only of course), I guess we will get there a little faster!

I can't get to the dealer until Wednesday as I have to catch a flight tomorrow morning and I'm sure I can't get a loaner from the dealer on a Sunday since the service department is closed. Thank you for your advice and council. Truly appreciate it! I will report back on the status later today and again after I likely get the battery replaced during the week.

Happy Mothers Day to all who are celebrating!

neuronbob

Haven't had this happen to me yet. It's amazing to me how many Honda/Acura electronic gremlins are explained by a dying or defective 12 v battery. That's certainly a reasonable thing to have checked out.

Good luck in the hunt and report back!

woropallo

I have owned a number of hybrids in the past years and though they weren't the SH they were hybrid and work on the same principal. I have never had a hybrid main or other batteries go bad, or even lose their charge, in such a short time as what you are explaining with the 2014. I can understand maybe 5 plus years down the line but not 2 or three. Either way my suggestion is to take it to the dealer have them check it out, if they need to charge the battery because it low, I tell them to replace it under warranty, asking them why a car battery would lose it charge in only a few years. With all the features in the RLX like automatic light off after a certain time, I can't believe you would wear down the battery in this short of time by driving Eco. My wife drives in the Eco mode all the time in her hybrid, personally I like the power mode but don't drive her car that much as I like driving the RLX, and has yet to have a problem with her battery, main or others, in the last 6 years. Just my 2 cents.

George Knighton

I agree with you completely, although I admit that I am a little worried about his problem.

I think there might be a problem with the terminology when referring to a "main" battery, with some of us (including service personnel) believing that when you say "main" you mean the under bonnet 12 volt battery, and others of us believing that you mean the bank of batteries in the 250 volt system.

Personally, I have to say, I experienced an unusual failure of my 2010 4G TL 6-6 SH-AWD's 12-volt battery, within two days of driving off with the car.

It produced a number of faults the first evening of having the car, and experienced a complete failure and replacement by the dealer on the second day of having the car.

This happened so early in the life of the car that I will usually not even remember it unless there's a discussion about electrical issues and warning lights, like this thread.

The Sport Hybrid is the first hybrid that American Acura dealers have had to deal with, and I think that we're just a little mixed up with how we are referring to the batteries and what is involved.

I think he's just going to need a new 12 v battery, and I hope that's all it is, but I confess that I am worried and that I will be keeping track of this thread.



.

2011TL

The same thing happened with my 2009 TL SH-AWD Tech a few days after purchase. The 12v battery was replaced and the problem was solved.

neuronbob

12 volt batteries go bad all the time. Here in Cleveland, we operate our vehicles in extreme conditions and that increases wear. I've never gotten more than three years out of an OEM Honda/Acura battery, and usually less.

Dammit, I need too move. Thanks, dear spouse, the reason I live in the Siberia of America!

woropallo

Main battery to me also means the 12v not the bank of lithium batteries. Personally I would hope you would not have any issues with either battery in a 2014 car.

Colin

Definition of terms for sure. I usually refer to them as "12v" and "hybrid" to avoid confusion. The car's electrical system runs off the 12v battery, including the computer that tells the car what to do with the two power sources.

In our CR-Z, people found that a dead 12v would be trickle charged from the hybrid battery once the system "knew" it was dead. Usually from a failed start attempt. However this won't work if the 12v battery won't hold the charge.

fsmith

RLX-Sport Hybrid - I tend to doubt that the problem is your driving in eco mode, because the system will automatically turn on the gas engine if the charge on the hybrid (not 12V) battery gets too low. I agree that a bad 12V battery is a possible and even likely source of the problem, but, given how complex the software in the SH-AWD is, and how little experience we all have with them, I would not want to drive the car too much without having it checked out at your dealer. In fact, if it was me, I wouldn't drive it all except to my dealer, but that's just me. It would seem logical that all three lights coming on at the same time would indicate an alarm error rather than a real error, but that logic may not hold for this complex and amazing beast that seems to be pushing the boundaries of engineering. You do not want to damage that gorgeous black car, given the time you have spent polishing it!

hondamore

I had a similar problem a few days after I got my car . It turned out that, because the car sat in the showroom for a few months, the battery had been discharged completely and recharged with an external charger several times. Apparently, when a lead acid battery is fully discharged, it loses quite a bit of it's lifespan. If it happens more than once, it never fully charges and will always be "weak". They are designed to sit in the 100% charged to 75% charged range and when they go lower or go to zero, they never come back the same (of at least that is what I was told).
Anyway, in my case, they replaced the battery, reset all of the systems that were flashing warnings (it takes a bit of time as they have to be done individually) and I haven't had any kind of issue since.
It is possible that, because the RLX Sport Hybrid is so rare, you also bought the unit that sat in the showroom and your battery suffered a similar fate. Also, if you don't drive your car for a few days, there is a small amount of "normal parasitic loss" from the cars many memory functions etc that will be enough to drain down a "weakened" battery to the point that the systems you mentioned lose enough power to give you the dashboard light show of warnings.

FWIW, I asked them to replace the battery with a deep cycle battery such as an Optima Yellow Top, but they would only use a Honda OEM battery although they did upgrade me to a "bigger" battery with more cold cranking amps. The work order had the new battery as "31500TX4A610 Battery24F610CCA". It has 610 cold cranking amps compared to the OEM battery's 550 CCA. Just FYI.

Also, if they check your normal parasitic loss, the value that mine tested to was 16 milliamps. Again just FYI.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Sure sounds like a 12V battery problem. The only issue I've had so far (knock on wooden head) with my TL AWD is premature OEM battery failure, which produced quite an amazing (and colorful) display of warning lights.

sooththetruth

This.

I think you're going to need a new battery. But I also note that you (RLX-SportsHybrid) are one of those responsible people trying to take blame for something that doesn't even remotely seem to be your fault, based on the story.

And having lived in Cleveland for 31 years before moving to the coast of Georgia, I will mention that the batteries in Cleveland are more likely to be dead when you have parked the car at an Airport, to leave for a week in the Caribbean, a vacation you barely stagger into in mid February, , only to fly home at 11 pm at night, with the need to be at work the next morning at 8 a.m.

Now, I would park in the covered garage, but when I was young and saving pennies, I would be calling for a jump at midnight. (Usually airport parking support would jump you to get home.). I never made it over 3 years on my batteries there, but here I make it 5 years, and my wife just changed her battery for the first time after 7 years! And it didn't die, I just kept checking it because I was sure it had to be about to go bad. (Hers is always inside, out of the weather, at a pretty even temp, so that is an artificial test.)

I don't believe your battery will hold it's charge, and you'll end up getting a new one.

p.s. I want my daughter to go to college at DePaul in Chicago. She wants to go to Alabama. Since Alabama is out of state tuition for me, and DePaul gave her a partial scholarship, I may force her to DePaul, but if she were not over 18 I am sure she would be reporting me to the Department of Family and Children Services (DFACS) for child abuse.

There is a camaraderie that arises in bad weather that is hard for non winter people to understand, but if you buy snow tires, and have the ability to go south a few times in the winter, it's not so bad. And getting off the plane in warm weather after leaving the cold is a lot like when you stop hitting your head against the wall. It's shocking how good it feels.

getakey

yup - batteries don't like to go below 60% charge especially starter batteries. With so many systems in cars these days, they should switch to more of a marine style combo "house/starter"

pgeorg

I had the same battery problems with my 2012 TL SH-AWD. They changed my battery out 3 times the first year, and then i just got tired of it and replaced the battery with a Sears Die hard one. Did not have one problem after that.....
I would have to agree with fsmith here, park it and drive it only to take it to the dealer...
Here is what the manual says (I am sure you have looked at it already):












I hope it is just the 12v battery and nothing else RLX-Sport Hybrid.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Gentlemen, I am blown away! I just got home after a day with the family, and the information you have all provided is amazing! I can't thank all of you enough.

Here is the update: the lights all turned off by themselves after I turned the car on an off for the short drives from place to place today. The car never behaved differently, and seems fine now. When I get back from my trip, I will get the 12v battery replaced asap. The car never sat at the dealer as I was there the day it came off the delivery truck so the idea that the battery was trickle charged over an over from sitting on the floor, was not the case for me. Good thought though Colin.

I drove very gently today even while in sport mode. Having said that, I think that for anything other than on a track, I prefer the ECO mode over Sport mode. I found myself accelerating faster than I wanted and although it is fun, it is not the most efficient nor safe from getting a ticket.

Thank you to all of you for your assistance today! You are all awesome! I will touch base again on Wednesday when I get back. I'll be at the dealer first thing and will report their findings. Talk to all of you soon.

Colin

Let me expand on what I was thinking. Assuming this works similarly to our CRZ, it is possible that a low 12v battery condition, "told" the system to start transferring power from the larger hybrid battery to the 12 V battery overnight.

Which is the reason that it apparently "healed itself" after being left alone for a while. While I have no technical confirmation, there is plenty anecdotal evidence to support this. People would come out to their car, try to start it, and nothing would happen. Half hour later the 12v battery was miraculously restored. In your situation, the warning lights were the trigger and the system started diverting power to charge 12v battery.

TampaRLX-SH

Keep in mind your car was assembled nearly a year before you took delivery. They sat in Saitama for months after assembly. There was plenty of time for those 12V batteries in the SH RLXs to drain and be poorly conditioned.

The hybrids will 'nurse' the 12V battery from the drive batteries and theoretically the 12V will not go dead won't go dead. But a poorly conditioned battery will likely set off the RLX Christmas tree of warning lights. This has been a characteristic of the car since the 2nd Gen RL. I am am on my 4th battery in my RL.

I would suspect there will be other 2014 SH RLX owners with 12V issues from that long sit time.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Excellent point! You are very likely correct. Sounds like a new TSB will be on the way.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Makes sense to me.

Malibu Flyer

I have been following this thread with much interest.

I haven't experienced any battery issues but I wouldn't be surprised if the sitting on the dock in Japan for months is at the botom of the issue. If it were the software, which clearly is possible and actually more concerning, I think we all would have found this problem sooner.

For what it is worth, like the OP, my car only sat at the dealer for a week before I test drove it. I bought it within another week. However, the dealer had the battery in the showroom disconnected when I first saw th Sport Hybrid. They told me they had done that because they didn't want to have the battery drained from sitting in the showroom. I had wanted to hear the Krell radio. They told me they would need a day to reconnect the battery before I could do my test drive.

Perhaps this is a sign the long delay in getting the cars to the NA dealers negatively impacted the 12v battery. The good news is getting a battery replaced is a simple fix and inexpensive. If it is a software issued I can't image the local dealer will be able to do anything expect continually to replace the 12v battery. The Acura mothership will need to diagnosis the problem and engineer a code fix. That's won't be quick, particularly given the rarity of the car.

Please keep us informed of your progress. The beta testers are anxiously waiting for some defineative news.

George Knighton

I wondered when somebody would remember to mention that.

:-)

fsmith

That's a really good point. When I bought my SH-AWD, I asked my dealer what might have been the effect of that prolonged parking-lot rest stop (someone on the forum posted a Google Maps photo of that parking lot!). The only thing anyone could think of was the tires. But this may be the lurking issue.

TampaRLX-SH

I posted that pic. I found the SH RLXs on Google Earth parked outside the Saitama plant after waiting for years and getting no credible information from Acura. That pic was from March 2014 after the 250 SH RLX were built out and parked.

I had nothing better to do with my time aside from over analyzing the rumors ranging from 'no ship to ship' , 'need mo batteries', 'still testing' to 'kidnapped by space aliens'.

This was my primary reason for not seeking the 2014 SH (after waiting years) as I do not have the fortitude to pay Acura for beta tester services.

George Knighton

Oh, come on. Where's your sense of adventure?

TampaRLX-SH

I have plenty of adventure in my life that costs little to nothing to achieve.

Paying north of $65K of my hard earned income to flush out issues for a brand who's communication model is to stick their heads in the sand (or some other dark space) is not what I consider wise, rewarding or adventuresome.

holografique

Bingo!

Malibu Flyer

While not disagreeing with you, I want to point out that so far the beta issues haven't been too bad. In the meantime, I and the rest of the betas are having the time of our driving lives enjoying the fun of driving the Sport Hybrid. It really is a kick and most of us get a smile on our face everytime we get into our cars. No regrets here. The tradeoff of a mediocre infotainment interface vs. the driving experience is one I would still make.

Clearly the car isn't perfect but overall I am happy.

TampaRLX-SH

Malibu,

That is fine and I am happy for you and those who are happy with the SH RLX. I find renewed enthusiasm by reading a mostly excellent reviews from this community.

But my choice is NOT to pay to be Acura's beta tester. Frankly, I do not find being a beta tester a badge of honor. All new models, especially with such amazing leaps in technology and engineering will have issues. In the past, I would trust Honda / Acura over most all other brands to adopt that product.

But it is my experience to wait out 1st year. And where Acura rattled my faith was the clandestine bait and switch of the 2014 SH RLX launch, the skipped 2015 SH as well as a phenomenally botched launch of the entire RLX model.

I chose to wait or look elsewhere. It was my decision to wait rather than spend $65K to cross my fingers that all the stink Acura was not explaining wound up being an expensive mistake of faith. I accept I may have lost out on a few months enjoyment of the SH by waiting, but I stand by my decision.

And FWIW as frustrated with Acura as I am I had opportunity to express it to Acura. As a result I am awaiting a VIN assignment to a 2016 SH RLX Advance configured as I desire, that is being coordinated with my dealer in the first shipment of 2016 SH RLXs. The suspension refinement and additional content bring the car into alignment as to what I seek and expect. And yes, you and the other beta testers have benefited me by sharing your positive experiences with the car.

My 2016 SH RLX should materialize in a few weeks when I return from a trip. If it does not work out, I have plan B on order as well. Next step is to see if I can find a very fortunate second owner for my RL.

Apologies for the thread hijack.

neuronbob

^^^^

You're welcome for the beta testing.

The beta testing has been a blast. I sure wish Acura would "pay us back" (since we all paid to be beta testers) by giving the beta testers some driver's seat time in an NSX when it comes out.

hondamore

Even though we call ourselves the beta testers, I believe that most of the testing was done by the 2014 PAWS RLX buyers who suffered most of the substantial issues. The Sport Hybrid buyers on this forum, myself included, seem to have had very few and very minor issues while fully enjoying their cars. The battery issue being discussed in this thread was a minor problem that, for me, was corrected without charge quickly while a sales associate took me out for breakfast to say sorry for the inconvenience (admittedly, at least part of that extra attention comes from the fact that he knows my wife's '07 MDX is due for replacement soon). In my case, the battery issue was a dealer handling issue and NOT an Acura issue as well.

TampaRL's strategy of waiting a year is prudent and wise, however, the "betatesting" experience I have enjoyed thus far and the great discount I got on a 2014 completely remove any regret from my decision to buy a first year model.

getakey

was there a definitive answer as to why the SH was delayed and if anything was actually changed in the car after being built?

Malibu Flyer

My choice to be a beta tester was not motivated by trying to win a badge of honor but rather by my 10 year old '05 RL. As much as i really liked the RL, I had wanted to replace it for the last 2-3 years. The original PAWS RLX was also much delayed [by the tsunami?]. I was really very interested in the PAWS until the early reviews came in. I was particularly disappointed by the lack of AWD, which was one of my favorite features in the RL. So i waited for the much alluded to Sport Hybrid. In an act of fate, I was getting my RL serviced and when picking it up, the drivers interior door handle, literally came off in my hand. While the tech was investigating the problem, I strolled into the showroom and found the Sport Hybrid. It had been delivered the day before. The rest is history.

I agree that your strategy for waiting to purchase a new car until the second year of a new model is better. For me it wasn't one that would work. Beta tester or not, I am not unhappy with the choice I made. That is all i was trying to express.

I'm glad that you will be joining the Sport Hybrid owners club and look forward to your thoughts and reviews. i have always looked forward to your comments on this Board. I hope you enjoy the ride as much as I have.

fsmith

Awesome, TampaRL. If you are like the other RL owners here who have been beta testers (I also had an '06 RL), you will love your SH-AWD. Congratulations on having the patience to do it the proper way. I look forward to your review!

holografique

Good for you man. Exactly what I would have done had I known what I was going to be in for before I got my 2014 PAWS.

I hope to have the same results as you come next year when it's time for me to renew my lease and hopefully step into a 2017 SH-RLX.

holografique

I'm putting my money down on the NSX Nuremberg fire. All indications at the time seemed to show that SH-RLX was literally days away from being released for sale and then bam!...the fire happened and everything (including marketing) went dead silent for quite a few months...

Bets? Bets? Place your Bets!

fsmith

My bet has always been on software problems, especially the control algorithms for integrating the electric motors into the rest of the handling system. I think the cars were built and sat in Japan, so unless they rebuilt them or replaced hardware, I think it was software.

Colin

I think its both, the software that controlled the regeneration/charging algorithms is similar for the NSX and RLX. I don't think we actually know what caught fire in the NSX... but it is likely that they learned something critical from that loss. It's worth noting that if something happened to an RLX Hybrid, it wouldn't ignite like the NSX which has LOTS of carbon fiber in the body. Small consolation but my

neuronbob

No. And we will likely never officially know given a lack of response.