George Knighton

I don't know if you guys generally keep up with this, but the 2016 changes to the North American Accord give us a huge, long list of "luxury" features that until very recently were available only on luxury brands like Cadillac.

Collision mitigation, active lane keep assist, multiple cameras, LED fog lights, Adaptive Cruise Control (!), road departure mitigation....



The new Touring Model Coupe includes things like rain sensing wipers and remote start.

So if you thought the FWD RLX had too much competition before, now it appears that we'll be competing against it from within American Honda.

Unfortunately, this also looks like it's going to be hard to get a 6-6 with any level of creature comfort, or you might not be able to get a 6-6 any longer in any time, beginning with 2016 model year.

As Brian Cooley (CNET) said about the Honda 6-6, "I don't know why they build it, but I'm sure glad they do."

The fuel economy and performance lines intersected on the graph a long time ago, and they're finding fewer and fewer excuses to build manual transmissions.

hadokenuh

The Honda Accord is a great car. The only missing "feature" is quietness IMHO. If they make it quieter while preserving the driving/handling, then it's going to be a real threat to Acura. Otherwise, throwing more techs to it doesn't make it compete directly to Acura, or the RLX for that matter.

Those techs eventually will make their way to cheaper cars anyway (if not already).

And btw, Honda makes the best manual transmission

TacoBello

So what you're essentially saying is that RLX PAW-S owners essentially overpaid for their car by 20k.

holografique

^ that.

I'm soo done with this Honda/Acura nonsense. And they wonder why they can't jump start their luxury line of cars. Makes absolutely NO SENSE.

neuronbob

My guess is that the IIHS definition of what makes a Top Pick is changing soon to include the devices in Honda Sensing and Honda is changing to boost its biggest seller.

It's called, "capitalism", and "progress".

We Acura owners beta-tested the newest tech and now it's made it down to Honda. Early 1G Acura RL owners beta-tested on-board navi systems and.....you guessed it, it was ultimately passed down to Honda cars. Now you can buy every Honda with a navi system.

I take this development as a positive sign for Acura. It means Honda (hopefully) has big plans for new tech in near-future Acuras.

(If you're a glass half-empty sort, I guess you could say it means "curtains" for Acura, but that doesn't make much sense to me.)

I admit, though, if I had a choice between an RLX PAWS and an Accord Touring, I'd be strongly considering an Accord. TLX would be out of the picture because of the smaller back seat. Of course, regulars here know I like the 9G Accord anyway, so there's that.

NBP04TL4ME

I couldn't agree more -

Colin

This is exactly what has happened. In order to qualify for Top Safety Pick, you must now offer these safety features. Honda is justifiably proud of it's safety record (Takata airbags not withstanding) and feels that the Accord must get the award. Accord, Civic and CR-V are the pillars of the brand, essentially they 'pay' for everything that H/A makes. I don't begrudge them keeping things relevant in these models.

...and VTEC, ABS, Aluminum body components, Drive-by-wire throttle, Electric power steering, VTM-4/SH-AWD, LED headlights all debuted in Acura before making their way to Honda.

flagship

George, do you have a link to this information? Is it the same features on the sedan?

neuronbob

Temple of VTEC Rumors and News - New Accord Coupe Touring trim added for 2016!

flagship

Does it make logical sense that they would put heated rear seats on a coupe and not a sedan. Would seem they would add to both.
I hope the next Acura and Honda models have Apple CarPlay.

Pens Fan

I have a 2013 Accord V-6 in addition to a 2012 TL SH-AWD, and recently leased a 2015 MDX-AWD Tech. I have a hard time deciding which car to drive to work each day as they all have different attributes I enjoy.

The Accord is a fun to drive, responsive and fuel sipping vehicle and is a value that is hard to beat. The fact that they are further enhancing it is great for us as consumers and the new Touring features make the car that more compelling. The competition is very intense so Honda rightfully needs to make both the Honda and Acura branded cars as good as they can be.

George Knighton

Another source seems to list heated rear seats on the Touring Accord, both Coupe and Sedan.

One site or the other could just be wrong, I guess. I agree with you that it makes more sense for the Sedan.

CFoote

The gap in brands continues to narrow for features and options.

The germans used to be the leader in technology with things like Xenon lights, Navigation, Bluetooth, etc and now ever car from every manufacturer has very similar options available in their lineup.

It definitely does make you think twice about what to buy. The Accord is definitely a solid car, I just wish there weren't a million of them out there.

Chris

CFoote

Hmmmm, don't see a way to append to my message, so I'll just add - will Acura be around in 10 years? Hmmmm.

neuronbob

I will put my neck out there and say, "yes".

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Honda has significantly raised the bar for recent Honda products - 9th gen Accord, ILX refresh, CRV facelift, new Pilot, new HR-V, new Fit, 10th gen Civic concept, and now the Accord facelift. This new Accord and Pilot are stepping well into Acura's territory. Heck, the Pilot even has the 9AT and SH-AWD (with a different name) from the MDX, and offers panoramic roof that not even the MDX has it.

The optimistic point of view is that, Honda might have something good planned for Acura. Otherwise, Acura could be in trouble.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

i dont see them going anywhere as long as honda's bread and butter keeps on selling

NBP04TL4ME

Agreed -

This! They have been around for what, 30 years? The only upscale luxury brand I can think of that didn't make it was Amati (Mazda) and technically that never launched. Maybe there are others, but I can't think of them right now.

holografique

^ exactly, and that's the point I'm trying to make. As long as Honda continues to be the mass seller, it will always be a "deviation" from them putting more of their efforts in their luxury brand...Acura.

As it stands, to me, in the grand scheme of things, Honda treats Acura like an "afterthought". You don't get that deviation from the Germans, or even Lexus for that matter. They focus intensely on what they do and invest everything in what they do...and as a result, it shows in the products. Not this dual personality crap we keep getting from Honda/Acura.

"Gee, should I buy a Honda or an Acura?"....

NBP04TL4ME

Fixed for you.......

holografique

^ lol...thanks!

JM2010 SH-AWD

We love our '13 Accord EX 6MT. It's a really great car, especially at its price point. But I would never mistake it for my '10 TL 6MT in any respect.

Nexx

believe the optimistic stand point. they have some good stuff planned. including stealing back the designer who designed the 3G TL for example from Honda. you want tail pipes, youll get them. you want a performance line aka type-s, type-r youre gonna get them. Acura is listening keep giving suggestions and share your thoughts. oh and anyone who compares an Accord to RLX is smoking crack. I can understand the TLX comparsion but comparing an Accord just because they are some of the features is laughable. A fully loaded Hyundai Elantra has a ton of equipment but youre not gonna compare that to a comparably equipped Genesis

Malibu Flyer

I don't disagree however Acura needs to take note that in the recently announced most reliable cars both of the Korean cars, Hyundai and Kia scored above all of the Japenese brands. Only Porche beat the Koreans.

It does mean I want to buy one over an Acura but the Koreans are making a lot of progress with their cars. Honda/Acura can't rest on its laurels.

George Knighton

They're conflicted at more than one level of executive leadership.

There is very serious lobbying going on from the North American franchisees for Acura to separate itself more from Honda, even to the point that when you pry the plastic cover off of a motor, it no longer says Honda under it.

But a vocal and influential minority in North America believe that it is important to to keep a direct and obvious link to Honda, because more people move to Acura after owning a Honda, and his is the basis for any future Acura success.

Then the other guys reply, but what are we missing in not being able to directly compete with Audi and Cadillac?

Then the JDM team steps in and makes the final decision, since nobody else can make it, and they say that a Honda Legend is just fine.

The North American franchisees are still lobbying, and they sell a decent number of cars and have a decent amount of money to drop into the effort, so it could happen at some point.

It might be encouraging that we're still hearing about Cadillac trying to move itself farther from the General Motors camp, even to the point of having unique and exclusive V8 motor designed specifically for the upcoming Cadillac lines.

holografique

IMO...their logic is soo flawed.

If a Honda buyer wants to move to Acura...should they not be making that move because of the product itself? Regardless of whether or not it's linked to Honda?

A buyer looking to move from Honda is it's own definition - someone who's looking to move from Honda. I repeat: The person is looking to move from Honda...so why on earth would you give them something that's close to the very thing they are wanting to move away from? That's like saying someone wants to move out of their 1-bdr apartment and into a house because they want more room. And instead, you just offer them a 2-bdr apartment....???

The focus should be on making the Acura product strong enough to stand on it's own so that it becomes the right choice for a Honda owner looking to move. A Honda owner should be making that decision because the Acura product stands well on it's own against the competition, not because it's an "easy way out" into something familiar. All that is doing is keeping Acura from becoming all that it can (and should) be by keeping it so close to the non-luxury brand that is Honda.

And here's the best part of all this that is soo ironic...that NA vocal minority you mentioned that want to keep Acura linked closely to Honda? They allow Honda to put out products that match (or in some cases rival) an Acura vehicle! The 2015 Accord has features that my 2014 RLX doesn't even have! So they themselves become the very reason preventing Acura from being more successful by offering features in a Honda that make the buyer go..."well, why should I move? I can get nearly the same thing for about $20-$30k less in a Honda"....*facepalm*.

Now that you've explained what's going on internally, it all makes MUCH more sense as to what's really keeping Acura down from becoming the brand it could be. And as long as that NA vocal minority continue to control the deck of cards, I only see more of the same movie playing out over and over again: for every step Acura takes, the competition takes 2-3 steps ahead.

George Knighton

I'm not sure I'd have expressed it in exactly those terms, but I see what you mean.

That's the problem from your perspective. So much of the Honda family do not see that Acura necessarily has competition.

It's (to them) just a matter or producing a car that a Honda owner will eventually want to buy, at some stage of his life.

A lot of the Honda JDM team do not necessarily see a reason for Honda to get bigger.

This is why they stepped back at the onset of the F&F craze.

They were really and truly horrified that they could in any way be associated with that kind of thing, and they made the decision not to make those kinds of cars for a while, even if it meant selling fewer cars.

holografique

Control through indirect influence can be just as (if not more) impacting than having legitimate control over something. At the end of the day, their influence is still seen, so...they ultimately still control things....


That's right....the perspective of the buyer. The person they are "supposed" to be building products for....


I'm not asking Honda/Acura to get bigger. I'm asking them to allow Acura to make a product that stands out and is worth the MSRP they ask for when compared to their non-luxury auto products.

holografique

More examples of the Honda/Acura nonsense...

https://acurazine.com/forums/fifth-g...d-euro-932313/

That Honda Spirior has a number of features you can't even get in the 2016 RLX (HUD, Rear USB ports), which is their flagship vehicle of their Luxury brand! Lol...it's just comical at this point.

And dare I say it has some sexier design elements to it on the exterior. The rear looks really nice (love the exhaust pipes).

holografique

I just did a google image search on the 2016 Honda Spirior...and along with it came tons of photos of the TLX, ILX...that surprisingly...look very familiar. That 2016 Spirior concept looks almost identical to the TLX Prototype....

Not only am I confused, I've never been more convinced that Honda/Acura are extremely confused...

George Knighton

That's a unique China and Hong Kong variant, with features that were included as a result of polling that occurred in those markets.

The 5G Legend as sold in the Asian markets has USB in the rear, rear controls for the HVAC and Krell Audio, and wireless charging.

The cars vary according to the market, although to some extent the car that we call the RLX was stuck on the cusp of technologies. If the car were rolled out as a 2016 model instead of a 2014 model, it's possible we'd have had those features as well.

I don't know for sure, of course, but it'd have been more possible.

The only reason we have the Legend at all in North America, I think, is to satisfy a niche of the enthusiast base and get feedback about the Sport Hybrid concept.

Malibu Flyer

I don't disagree with you at all but since everything I have seen about the Sport Hybrid is so positive, why in the world do they only appear to be producing 200 or so 2016 Sport Hybrids? With some additional production and a better organized marketing approach [do a drive and ride song and dance for the automotive press] I bet they could sell significantly more than they are currently producing. A little buzz from the automotive press and some inventory so it would be easy to do a test drive and sales of these cars could improve greatly [not a high bar to beat as we call know]. Timing would seem right to build momentum for the end of the year introduction of the new NSX. All of this is really more to help the somewhat tarnished brand imagine than profits made by the sales of a modest number of Sport Hybrids and NSXs.

George Knighton

I can't answer your question.

Everything that I have seen points to the notion that the 5G Legend was never meant to be a big seller.

It's easy to make fun of me for thinking that. The evidence is there...and it's quantifiable...but it does not lead anyone to a definite conclusion.

MSZ

Mainland China only, there is no RHD model being made for the tiny HK/Macau market.

krava

Well When I bought my car my thought was this. I am buying a RLX advanced for the same price as the most expensive Honda accord. I only have 6K miles on the car so that is relatively new. So why not get the RLX. I am not over paying if I am paying the same as I would for the Honda accord touring. So that is why I caved in and bought it. The Honda accord doesn't have 19" wheels. The Honda accord doesn't have such good speakers. The Honda accord doesn't have much leg room. ETC

George Knighton

I've got a dumb question. I haven't been to Hong Kong in a very long time and I didn't do my own driving when I was there. I can't even remember ever seeing a speed limit sign.

So here's the dumb question: Are the speedometers in miles per hour?

Hong Kong seems to resist giving up anything English, sometimes fighting tooth and nail for just the smallest bit of English...so I can't help wondering if they've persisted and insisted on keeping miles per hour.

TampaRLX-SH

^^^

km/h

George Knighton

Ha ha ha ha ha....

We can evidently count on some distinguishing differences....

:-)


..

Ken1997TL

I got some Michelin Pilot Super Sports originally for my S2000 and liked the quiet/smooth driving characteristics so much I got them for my '13 Accord EX-L.

And guess what? It's as quiet as my previous '02 RL (before my NVH improvements)

MSZ

km/h officially. But there are still a few old "castle road xx miles" signs can be found in the Tuen Mun area.