Padre Dave

Do any of you awesome Master Technicians have any experience with either or both of these performance flashes for our RDX? Please, do tell....

Thanks and blessings!

Cuzz

I was hoping to get more info from this thread. Are there any other tuners besides Hondata and KTuner? I really don't know anything about tuners, but am very interested in them all of a sudden and want to learn more. I really don't want to play around and mess with any settings on my own. I would like something that is very easy to use, lets you pick from some standard "tunes", and can return to stock any time the car needs to go back to the dealer for service. My one real requirement besides being easy for a novice to use and hard for a novice to screw up is that it must remove the speed limiter. 113 mph is just a ridiculous limit for this car.

Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in with a short lesson on tuners, what they do and how they work.

Thanks.

wavshrdr

Most of the tuners work the same way and not a lot of choices from what I've seen so far for the RDX. Basically they rewrite the software for the ECU (engine control unit) and command different things from the parts that are under their control. For the most part they focus on the key things such as boost levels and ignition timing. There is sort of an art and science to this.

You can easily get more HP/TQ just by cranking up the boost but there are other things you have to take into account. More boost means you need more fuel. If Hondacura put in wimpy fuel injectors you might get to the point the duty cycle is close to 100% That is clearly no bueno as lack of fuel causes a lean condition and you have a major meltdown pretty quickly. Too much ignition timing and you get detonation and can quickly put a hole in a piston or two. Thank God for knock sensors that can pull timing quickly.. Or intake temps can rise too much and cause thermal stress on the motor. Of course too much HP/TQ and destroy a transmission as well.

All in all its pretty complicated but usually you have some headroom to play with tweaking stuff and can extract quite a bit of performance out of the car. Case in point I have a 18 year old turbocharged VW I built that more than doubled its power output and it will be over 200k miles by the end of the year. Never had an engine or transmission issue and still running the high performance clutch I put in it so many years ago.

The Ktuner does remove the speed limiter on the car. Just make sure your tires have the appropriate speed rating if you plan on pushing it fast and for anything length of time.

Hopefully that helps put things in some context. Both companies are pretty well regarded. I doubt they are even remotely tweaking the RDX to within inches of its live and the Civic R boys are pushing that same motor a lot harder.

Padre Dave

I might be one of two here who have publicly gone forward with tuning. I also own a sweet 2010 Mazdaspeed 3 that is mildly tuned and I am very happy with it. I had it tuned by a guy from DramaTune who sent me the program, and I loaded it with my Cobb Accessport v.3.0

when I got the RDX I was generally happy with the performance but it seemed to have too much turbo-lag at low end. So, I did some research on both tuners (I only know of Hondata and K-Tuner. I purchased more K-Tuner than I need, as I am not interested in doing intricate tuning.. The K=Tuner comes with Stage 1 and Stage 2, the specifications for this can be found in another thread.

I have had Stage 1 for around 10,000 miles and am very satisfied. I haven’t had the interest to try to upgrade my ECM to Stage 2, but i will wait till our ambient temperature gets under 90 midday. It’s just too hot to sit in the car with computers, programmers, cables, etc and diaphoresis on top of that....my glasses get all cloudy....can you see my point?

maybe someone who has a dyno shop near by should have a dyno day. I can’t loan you my K=Tuner unless I also loan my car’s ECU...they are married. (I am a Pastor, after all).

Cuzz

Thanks guys, that’s what I was looking for. About how much of a hit does your mileage take with that stage 1 tune? And if the mileage suffers a bit is it because of the tune? Or because you drive a little harder because you have the tune? I think the tunes also require premium fuel too from what I saw on their website.

Appreciate the feedback. I agree with what was said elsewhere that this may be a needed addition once I actually buy my RDX.

wavshrdr

You sort of hit the mileage conundrum right on the head. I don't have any personal experience with a tuned RDX but the other person said their mileage went down a bit. They also attribute that to the increased FTD (fun to drive) factor.

I can tell you on other vehicles I've personally tuned that at steady state cruising (say under 80 mph) I've usually seen an improvement as I've done things to improve the efficiency of my vehicle. My last truck was tuned and saw a significant increase in mileage everywhere both daily driving and on the highway. The manufacturer had made some weird tuning choices and the tuner took care of that. It was a very modest tune, comparable to what the Ktuner would do for you. My daily driving mileage went from 20 mpg to 23 and highway from 27-28 up to 31 mpg. This was on a full size half ton pickup. It didn't take long for the tune to pay for itself in that situation.

After driving the tuned car it feels like it has too many gears now. :-) The torque band is so rich and wide that it doesn't really seem to have any problem pulling at any RPM and all the extra shifts just seem to get in the way. If it had a DCT transmission then the time to shift would be a non-factor. If it could shift less or maybe skip a gear it wouldn't be missed with how well the tune pulls.

I think that is why in general I have a love/hate relationship with most 10 spd gearboxes (except on a semi). They always seem to need to be doing something. Even with all the gears you never seem to be in the right gear when you need it. Having all the gears can easily mask a peaky, highly tuned motor and have a right gear for it all the time. With the tuned RDX there are likely 3 good gear choices for any speed. If any of you have ridden a big bore dirtbike or street bike where it doesn't matter what gear you are in, that is what driving the Stg 2 Ktuner tuned RDX is like. Shifting pretty much becomes optional a lot of the time. Unless you want to get into the upper gears for best fuel economy.

I think without the tranny nanny it would definitely be a high 5 second 0-60 car. That is revving it out. When you first tip in the throttle it feels more like a high 4/low 5 second car (0-60) that flattens out a bit up top as you get toward redline. I think that is why I like driving it so much. It just pulls so hard initially with sort of a snor that you can't wait for it to really wail up top but it just never quite gets there. It just makes me want to find the missing top end. It still is incredibly fun to drive (one rolling and past the tranny nanny). I'll see how long I can resist tuning my car. I just have to stop trying the other one. Though we've worked out sort of a trade system. When I want to borrow their car, I loan them one of my Ducatis. So far it has worked out well.

sonyfever

Now I understand why you put such emphasis on 0-60s because of your background.

I have been through similar steps and came to the same conclusion that buying the highest-spec in stock form I can afford is the best way to go in terms of owning a higher-performance car.

If I were you, and could not wait for RDX TypeS, I would suggest selling your RDX now and buy X3 M40. The car just got an engine upgrade this year to 385hp. Some dealerships should still have the old one in stock on clearance, that one still has 355hp. Of course you pay extra, but with BMW there are often rebates/discounts to cut down the price significantly. TypeS version will be around 55k anyway, so a 58k M40 does not sound bad at all.

wavshrdr

onyfever - I think you are thinking a lot like I have been. Likely for me the RDX was not the best choice. It isn't like you can really run the car hard on the test drives to see what it is really like. In normal drive it feels pretty decent. I had read somewhere that the were stock running high 5's low 6's. In reality it is more like high 6's low 7's. I think for once Consumer Reports nailed it.

"The RDX uses an new 2.0-liter, four-cylinder turbo engine, like most of its competitors. We enjoyed the energetic engine’s quick acceleration once it got past an initial delay, and the new 10-speed automatic transmission shifts smoothly. We got 22 mpg overall in our tests, which is average for the category, and no better than what we measured with the V6 in the previous-generation RDX. This figure also trails the performance from competitors’ small turbo engines, such as Audi, BMW, and Lexus."

"We found that the RDX’s engine and transmission are more responsive at higher highway speeds than during everyday drives, particularly in urban settings. The RDX suffers from an initial delay that makes drivers wait for power. This problem is less noticeable when the RDX is in Sport mode. Once past that delay, the 2.0-liter turbo feels energetic and the 10-speed automatic shifts quickly and decisively."

If CR can see the delay, even a blind man could. Yea, I know you feel the delay but I think CR is often blind to a lot of things in their test but even that blind squirrel found this nut. No to mention my fuel economy figures almost exactly match theirs; 15, 22, 30.

As much as I would love to bail out and go to something else, my SO would kill me. I have a new Vette on order and I am already a motorcycle addict so flipping the RDX so quick would not do me any favors down the road when I want to pick up some other vehicle or toy. My emotions said by the Stelvio Q4 but my head say save some $$$ and buy the options I want or the Vette instead.

It isn't like I hate the RDX, it just could have been so much better. As for the S version, a tune, downpipe, exhaust and intercooler would basically give you that ore better. Unless they do something with the tranny nanny it is all for naught anyway. It just really cripples the performance of the car.

OTOH I can spend all day in the seats and get out refreshed. One of the easiest cars I've ever owned to get in and out of. The sound system is far better than most premium luxury cars I've owned. I can't say it is an inspiring car like you want to go wring it out like a Miata and to toss through the turns but it is incredibly competent. The faster you push the SH-AWD the better it feels.

When I had chance to defeat the traction control on the Ktuned one and really hit it through some slow speed turn is when sort of the light bulb went off and it felt like a softer Stelvio Q4. The chassis can do so much more than the engine is putting out. A 450hp RDX would be my cup of tea so to speak. I just feel I am dangerously close to going down that rabbit hole of modding the heck out of this car and I was trying to avoid it.

Maybe I'll try and be good, wait for the Vette to arrive, drive it for a while, and if I still want a faster RDX, just sell it and buy the BMW or maybe find a deal on a used Stelvio Q4 and roll the dice on its reliability.

Padre Dave

I just returned from a quick round trip to Tucson to preside at the funeral of one of my former church members there and spent most of the trip with the cruise control set at 80 with some bursts to 90+, and a few miles of off-freeway driving and my mileage was an indicated 24.3. The road is uphill going and downhill on the return, so altitude is covered. It was between 85-96 degrees outside so the AC was set at 70 degrees F inside the car.

This car is really growing on me!

JB in AZ

I do that trip often, but usually have the ACC set to 78-79. I usually average 27-28 mpg on the round trip with the AC running. I have a 5 mile uphill on surface roads when i return to the Tucson area, and it wipes a bit off the trip average (that I probably gained on the outbound).

Have they raised the speed limit thru the construction south of Casa Grande back up to 70 mph yet?

Padre Dave

Technically no, speed limit is posted at 65 but everyone was going 75....finally 3 lanes all the way past or to the reservation past Casa Grande.

wavshrdr

One thing I thing where the RDX is better than its Honda SUV relatives (CRV, Pilot, Passport, etc.) is the AC. I remember test driving the Honda's here in Florida and ever time the sales person want to make sure they used remote start (if it had it) before we got to the car. It would usually take a good 10-15 min of driving before it would cool down to somewhat comfortable for me. By comparison the RDX is about 3-5 min. A crappy Kia rental car we have at the moment is cool before it leaves the drive...

When I lived in Arizona it would have been even more important for me. Usually it isn't as humid as Florida but the intense temps are there own challenge.

Padre - have you ever made it to Saint Anthony's Greek Orthodox Monastery in Florence? I don't know what denomination you are but regardless it is a pretty amazing place to visit. Basically a bunch of Greek monks moved to Arizona in the mid 90's. They built this amazing little paradise in the desert. While I am not Greek Orthodox my SO and I try and stop by at least once or twice a year. It was easier when we lived on the Left Coast than so far away now. You can basically come as a pilgrim in the true sense of the word and see what a monk's life is like. If you are in need of spiritual enlightenment you can even schedule an "ask a monk" session. We stayed almost a week one time and I'll tell you, it isn't easy living the life of a monk in the desert. I met some really amazing people while there from all over the world.

You need to go bump your RDX up to Stage 2. You will thank me for it later. I am finding it harder and harder to resist the urge of tuning. Now that I have tasted the forbidden front it is hard to go back. When I drive my car I keep thinking what a dog.

JB in AZ

Quoting myself as I see this as the only way to edit after the edit window expires.

This line should read: Have they raised the speed limit thru the construction south of Casa Grande back up to 75 mph yet?

And, I am running stock in Comfort mode.

Padre Dave

Regarding St Anthony in the Desert, YES! We haven’t been lately, but we were visiting when the olive trees were tiny sticks with a few leaves on it. Now I hear from my wife that they have grown greatly. I am Lutheran but have an icon collection that has been an aid in my devotional life.

Regarding Stage 2 tune when I have access to a cool spot and a set of very strong and new cables so I can run it without messing with my EU.

I am so happy that you were blessed by hour visit to the monastery. How about you let me know when you’ll be in town and I will be happy to buy you lunch or dinner....OK, a 0900 breakfast will workkk too.

Padre Dave

As above, no they didn’t even though is probably the best road service in the Western side of this continent. They are finishing u the landscape work in the central area between eastbound and westbound. It is SO nice to have the vast majority of I-10 moving smoothly...don’t even talk about I-17 from Anthem to Flagstaff.....

sonyfever

First of all, congrats on the Vette. But I doubt you will feel better about RDX, because once you get the Vette, the power and the responsiveness is just going to make the delay on RDX more apparent. At least that is what I feel everytime I get out of my other car - if only the throttle response is more linear, if only the low end power is better, if only the front bites 2x harder, etc.

Having said that I do like the car more than when I just purchased it. The car is smooth but can still bite in the right circumstances. It is not perfect, but as a supplement to more performance-oriented car it is great. I was thinking maybe I would trade in for TypeS version, but the sensible me knows that is not going to happen, and not worth the $$ for my mostly-city usage. So I will likely get Hondata to hopefully mitigate the delay and improve throttle response....

I did the first maintenance, switched to Amsoil and feel the engine is less draggy rolling off-throttle If you really want to resist modding, try wait until after first maintenance to decide. The car could drive better (not in terms of power, but in terms of the feel) afterwards.

wavshrdr

I had to drive across town in some horrendous traffic today. Probably the worst conditions possible for me to enjoy the car. People would speed up quickly to make it through the light, I would hit the throttle to join them and it would sit for a second then take off like a bat out of hell and then hard on the brakes. The minor squealing rear braes that just seemed to be on the driver side and only when cold now squeal/squeak all the time now and the harder I brake. WTH?

Apparently even the absolute cheapest made is quicker off the line than my RDX. Followed my SO home after dinner and every time for about the first second when they would take off it would easily get the jump on the RDX. Get the RDX out in the 30-80 mph range and it is a very nice car unless you need to floor it to pass and then it can't really find the gear its looking for after dropping the first 4. So hard to get back in mine after having driving the tuned one.

As for the Vette and exacerbating the deficiencies of the RDX, most of my other vehicles do that already but probably not to the extreme the Vette would. We've had a car in the shop for some repairs were supposed to be done almost a month ago and now on our 4th rental car. Every one of the little econoboxes had better AC and better off the line acceleration than the RDX. Is the tranny really that much of a POS that it can't handle the load off the line? If so, towing my small boat or jetskis is likely to crush it. I can see trying to pull them out of a steep boar ramp and the tranny just puking all over the ramp while the entire rig slides into the drink. Sure maybe an exaggeration but if the tranny is the weak link not out of the realm of possibility. More likely the tranny nanny will limit to torque to the point I can't make it up a steep ramp. It will just sort of stall out there. Maybe I should take a winch or a come-along when I go the first time or at least a snatch strap.

It would be nice if someone with the Hondata can comment about the off idle response. It is still there with the Ktuner but the better pickup immediately after the nanny phase helps mask it a bit.

Burger Steak & Eggs

We will be waiting and watching....

Taz_Man

At the urging of Wavshrdr I've joined the board. I usually try to keep a low profile because of potential blowback with respect to modding. Never know who might be reading so to speak.

So far the tune has been flawless. I ran the Stage 1 for some time, maybe 1,000 miles, and then went to Stage 2. S1 was pretty good for daily driving but honestly S2 is a lot more fun but it isn't like there is a night and day difference between the tunes. Maybe it seems better on paper but you aren't going to be blown away going from 1=>2. Personally I don't even know why there is a S1 tune.

Maybe if you could switch between S1&S2 by using dynamic driving modes, then yeah, count me in. But even after testing with Wavshrdr, I never felt like it was worth my time to load up the S1 tune to quantify the difference between them. I should have just gone to S2 from the get go. WIth the S2 tune you feel like you really got your money's worth.

I too am annoyed by the tip in lag. With the miles I have on mine it has gotten smoother but I can't say it bothers me any less. Once rolling I deal with it ok. In the right conditions the car is a real blast. I drove it in the N. Georgia mountains and that is where I really appreciated the extra pull. It made passing cars up the hills a lot easier. While the trans still shifts a lot, it doesn't seem to be caught out with the wrong gear as often. The tune really helps that. Before it would sort of hunt to find the right gear now, usually by the second choice it has one that will move the car in a hurry.

Fuel mileage took in the shorts for me. I can't blame the tune as being less efficient, it probably is more efficient than before. I just find myself hard on the gas a lot more. I've stopped tracking it at this point. Last time I checked, I was 21.5 mpg since I bought the car. I am probably about 50/50 city/highway. The range annoys the heck out of me. I feel like I am gassing up every day.

I looked at some of the numbers we captured when running my car. I don't think they tell the real story. That initially lag really bags the car. Your not going to mistake it for a Macan but once it is rolling, it just keeps pulling and pulling. You feel like you are surging a big wave of torque. There is no real drama to it and maybe that makes it a bit less fun in some weird way. I have a highly modded S2000 and it was a dog a low RPM. Once it really came on the cam it was a blast. That peakiness to the S2000 motor made it feel faster than maybe it was. Conversely the no drama mama of the tuned RDX makes it feel slower even though it is now easier to drive fast.

On my S2000 there was only 1 gear for any speed. My RDX is a lot more forgiving. Can I have an RDX with the bottom end grunt I have now with the top end pull of my S2000?

JB in AZ

What a nice informative helpful post, Taz_Man!

So, why is Taz_Man banned?????

Cuzz

I don't know, but it seems weird to get banned after only 1 post which seems to be pretty informative. I was looking forward to reading more...

wavshrdr

I will ask him and let everyone know. He signed up earlier while at my house and on my computer. He was never a big fan of forums in the first place. Apparently some mods came back to bite him as he posted about them on a public forum and the ended up denying a warranty claim based on what he posted. Apparently it was a pretty obtuse connection. Not as if the motor was modded and the tranny blew up as a result or it dropped a rod.

Heck without people doing some mods and posting about it, it would just end up being a bitchfest on most forums about something they hate about their cars. It helps drive people the forum to read about more interesting stuff than my breaks are squeaking, the infotainment sucks, etc.

wavshrdr

He got a notice saying he was banned because he had a duplicate account. Maybe because he used my PC while here. We used my laptop to log data on his car and connected through the internet from my network. So apparently that is why he was banned. I don't think he is going to bother contesting it. More hassle than it is worth when he wants to keep a low profile anyway.

JB in AZ

That does make sense.

Thanks for explaining it, as your friend's post was very helpful and informative, he would be an (additional) asset to the community. As you are as well!

Cuzz

I was trying to get more info on how these tuners work and neither Hondata or KTuner have any info on their website that I could find that says they support the 2019 or 2020 RDX. Do you have to call them to get this info?

wavshrdr

@JB - thanks for the feedback. I'll pass it on to him. I asked about doing something regarding the ban and he said it clearly isn't worth the hassle especially sine he preferred to keep a low profile anyway.

@Cuzz- I can tell you the Ktuner clearly supports the 2019 and 2020 RDX. While it is not on their website yet, they will be posting dyno results soon.

sonyfever

I only have experience with Hondata. All you need is connect FlashPro to ODB-II and your labtop's USB, and install FlashPro Manager on the laptop. Everything is done through FlashPro Manager, first you register FlashPro to lock it to your car, and you open the tune you want to upload to ECU, then just click upload. It is very easy to use if you only plan to use the Hondata stage1/2 tunes. Hondata made a tutorial, but you can find many guides on YouTube as well.

Burger Steak & Eggs

Have any of you bought the full development package, i.e. allows you to change tables and parameters to make your own tune? It would be epic if there was a table that said "Delay Until Full Power". I would be setting that puppy to zero.

wavshrdr

I think this is sort of what happens when you mash the throttle on the RDX at a stop.

Bridge:"Engine room, this is the Captain, full speed ahead"
Engine room:"Captain, this is the engine room, just confirming you wanted full speed ahead"

Bridge:""Engine room, this is the Captain, confirming full speed ahead"
Engine room:"Aye aye, Captain, full speed ahead"

Engine room:"Captain, steam pressure is low, will half ahead suffice until the turbines are up to speed?"
Bridge:"WTF?"

This is sort of what I like every day when I have to merge into 60-65 mph traffic immediately upon leaving my subdivision from a dead stop. It is posted 65 but nobody is going that slow as our road is the feeder road to a major interstate highway.

Cuzz

So you need a laptop if you just want to use the "canned" stage 1 or 2 tunes? Is that true for the KTuner as well?

wavshrdr

Depends on which Ktuner you buy. The V 1.2 needs one to load the tunes. There is a V2 that is totally self contained but more expensive. I heard, but can't confirm, if you use the Android app (no IOS) with V1.2 it is like having a laptop connected to it.

The V 1.2 is I think about $440 or so and the V2 about $600 though I've seen it as low as $550. I think the Hondata was about $690.

Cuzz

Thanks, I was looking at the high end models at both websites. I didn’t want one that needed a laptop.

not2envy

any updates on Ktuner tune for 2020 rdx and dyno numbers? been following it on FB group and here with no updates since likw a week or two?

wavshrdr

The Ktuner tune for the 2020 RDX is available. I haven't heard anything about the dyno numbers yet.

not2envy

well dyno numbers are up on KTuner's website

not2envy

300wtq and about 256whp!!

sonyfever

For people interested to know, I confirmed with Hondata that their tunes are always based on the latest ECU SW from Honda. I asked them because of I am afraid that the tunea will overwrite some nice improvements I saw from updating control modules' software.

So if you cannot convince your dealership to update the ECU SW, simply resotring the ECU to stock in Hondata (not sure about KTuner) can do that.

Funz51

thanks for that...
What would I say to the dealer in order to get an ECU update, if any? use a bulletin reference?

sonyfever

TSB can get you there, but most TSBs are limited to specific range of VINs so you might not be able to go that route. Besides, dealership gets paid for applying TSB, so even if you find a dealership that is willing to blindly update software (let's call it firmware to avoid confusion with OTA software update for infotainment), you probably need to pay for labor. But considering Hondata is $700 and the DST-i adapter for PC-car communication is in the thousands, I would not expect it to be free unless you are a good friend of dealership.

Funz51

I just asked KTuner the same question and they responded the same way. Question is, if an ECU fix comes out, and you are KTuned (or Hondata'd) , I guess you would just burn your original profile back to the car, take it to the dealer, get it updated, then back it up on the KTuner later. thing is, that fix will not get into your vehicle if you burn the stage one or two, cuz the base tune they used to create the stage 1 and 2 used the old original OEM profile. Should I care about that? Does Ktuner or Hondata supply updated stage 1 and 2 profiles after a while?