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I hesitate to mention this, but why does the government give tax incentives to those who are buying $60k+ vehicles. Most buyers in this price category don't need the tax credit. IMHO the tax credits, IF needed at all, should be for entry level EVs. Perhaps those that are (I don't know) in the $30k -$35k price range. This would force manufactures to price some models much lower to entice buyers with a very low purchase price for EVs. AND why should the credits "run out" when a manufacturer sells so many EVSs? Makes no sense to me.
I hesitate to mention this, but why does the government give tax incentives to those who are buying $60k+ vehicles. Most buyers in this price category don't need the tax credit. IMHO the tax credits, IF needed at all, should be for entry level EVs. Perhaps those that are (I don't know) in the $30k -$35k price range. This would force manufactures to price some models much lower to entice buyers with a very low purchase price for EVs. AND why should the credits "run out" when a manufacturer sells so many EVSs? Makes no sense to me.
This is my opinion.
Okay, let's explore that a bit.
EV's are kindof expensive by their very nature, yeah? I mean, the cheapest POS EV that quickly comes to mind is a Chevy Bolt and it's still over $30K, I believe. You yourself said that they are "$60k+ vehicles".
Now your opinion is that people who buy them "Do not need the tax credits". This is also true. "Need" is subjective.
You follow this up with not understanding why there are cap limits on unit production for eligible vehicles, and opine that reducing the tax credits would "force" manufacturers to price the vehicles lower.
Okay...
The full $7500 is for vehicles with a 17 or so kwh battery or larger, otherwise the Q5 and every new euro vehicle with electric assist would qualify, it would be nuts. So battery size is a thing. The goal is to push EV's. Making the battery size a thing, and tying amount to that, accomplishes it.
Capping the production amount allows the company to get it off the ground. If they had no cap, well, the government would be leaving more money on the table. I am sure calculations were done as to optimal stimulation vs. response, here. If they capped it lower, the manufacturer wouldn't be incentivized.
Okay so what do you mean by that? Well, I won't be buying the Blazer or the Toyota or other products without the tax credit. So that's what they mean. Plenty of people like me are just gaming it to get our money back. The government is smart AF, contrary to popular belief. This makes companies pretty sure their products will move, even if they aren't pinnacle for genre, because there is incentive! This gets the company to invest in those cheap EV's that noone is really turned on by. Like what you're talking about, in the 30-35K range.
No, it wouldn't drive costs down to remove the incentive. How would that even work? Batteries cost what they cost, and so does the rest of the car. It's not like manufacturers jacked up the price of production or have crazy margins just because of the government credits to customers. Maybe the dealers are playing that game with market ADM's, but that's as far up the chain as that goes.
Now we get to the people buying them. People who cannot benefit from the tax credit can't afford (or rather, shouldn't afford) $60k cars. This isn't a rebate. It's a credit for taxes I've already paid that I would otherwise not get back. The MINIMUM you can make as a SINGLE taxpayer with ZERO dependents, and take advantage of the tax CREDIT of $7500 in full, is $47K/year. If you're not making at least that much, and with zero dependents, then you're not even paying taxes in that amount, so how COULD you "get them back"? So you'd max out in one of the cheaper vehicles with smaller batteries, like a Prius Prime, prior to Toyota being phased out.
The government isn't giving ANYONE money, here. They're incentivizing the sale/purchase transaction by REFUNDING me what's already MINE. This is money that was taken from me, that I am getting back. Noone is giving me anything. Noone is giving anything up so I can have it. This is literally just putting back in my pocket what a corrupt system took from me, and if someone has a problem with it who is low income, then I would ask, since they are so bent about me not paying as much as I otherwise would, where THEIR lofty contributions to our amazing tax system are, because they aren't in my league, and their criticism is hypocritical. This is the same reason I don't rag on Bezos or Musk paying low percentages of their income vs. mine into taxes...because they are still paying BILLIONS. I have zero room to whine about their BILLIONS in taxes.
The full $7500 is for vehicles with a 17 or so kwh battery or larger, otherwise the Q5 and every new euro vehicle with electric assist would qualify, it would be nuts. So battery size is a thing. The goal is to push EV's. Making the battery size a thing, and tying amount to that, accomplishes it.
Capping the production amount allows the company to get it off the ground. If they had no cap, well, the government would be leaving more money on the table. I am sure calculations were done as to optimal stimulation vs. response, here. If they capped it lower, the manufacturer wouldn't be incentivized.
Okay so what do you mean by that? Well, I won't be buying the Blazer or the Toyota or other products without the tax credit. So that's what they mean. Plenty of people like me are just gaming it to get our money back. The government is smart AF, contrary to popular belief. This makes companies pretty sure their products will move, even if they aren't pinnacle for genre, because there is incentive! This gets the company to invest in those cheap EV's that noone is really turned on by. Like what you're talking about, in the 30-35K range.
No, it wouldn't drive costs down to remove the incentive. How would that even work? Batteries cost what they cost, and so does the rest of the car. It's not like manufacturers jacked up the price of production or have crazy margins just because of the government credits to customers. Maybe the dealers are playing that game with market ADM's, but that's as far up the chain as that goes.
Now we get to the people buying them. People who cannot benefit from the tax credit can't afford (or rather, shouldn't afford) $60k cars. This isn't a rebate. It's a credit for taxes I've already paid that I would otherwise not get back. The MINIMUM you can make as a SINGLE taxpayer with ZERO dependents, and take advantage of the tax CREDIT of $7500 in full, is $47K/year. If you're not making at least that much, and with zero dependents, then you're not even paying taxes in that amount, so how COULD you "get them back"? So you'd max out in one of the cheaper vehicles with smaller batteries, like a Prius Prime, prior to Toyota being phased out.
The government isn't giving ANYONE money, here.They're incentivizing the sale/purchase transaction by REFUNDING me what's already MINE. This is money that was taken from me, that I am getting back. Noone is giving me anything. Noone is giving anything up so I can have it. This is literally just putting back in my pocket what a corrupt system took from me, and if someone has a problem with it who is low income, then I would ask, since they are so bent about me not paying as much as I otherwise would, where THEIR lofty contributions to our amazing tax system are, because they aren't in my league, and their criticism is hypocritical. This is the same reason I don't rag on Bezos or Musk paying low percentages of their income vs. mine into taxes...because they are still paying BILLIONS. I have zero room to whine about their BILLIONS in taxes.
I almost stopped reading with the "government is smart AF" comment. Because no, they're not. If they were smart they wouldn't be incentivizing an industry that can't produce enough product as it is. They want everyone to buy EV's, but neither the industry nor the electrical grid can contend with everyone driving EV's, and it's going to be a while before they can.
The government is giving away money here. They're reducing tax revenue, which is no different than spending money. You say it's your money. No, it's not. You were taxed fair and square, or at least fair according to the government you claim is smart AF. When you take that money back, you're taking money out of the pot that is supposed to be supporting us as a collective whole. The pot which is completely empty, btw, with an IOU at the bottom so large we may never pay it back. Sooner or later, it's going to catch up with us.
Having said all that, I don't expect anyone to buy an EV and not take advantage of the available credit. It would be foolish not to. What I am saying is that there should be no tax credit. If the government is hell-bent on spending our tax money, putting it into the charging infrastructure would be the way to go. Remove the charging obstacles, and the reduced operating costs combined with increased performance should be all the incentive buyers need to buy into EV's with their own money.
I hesitate to mention this, but why does the government give tax incentives to those who are buying $60k+ vehicles. Most buyers in this price category don't need the tax credit. IMHO the tax credits, IF needed at all, should be for entry level EVs. Perhaps those that are (I don't know) in the $30k -$35k price range. This would force manufactures to price some models much lower to entice buyers with a very low purchase price for EVs. AND why should the credits "run out" when a manufacturer sells so many EVSs? Makes no sense to me.
This is my opinion.
Agree completely, but across the board for any price range EV. Whats the government credit for buying a 25K Civic right now....zero. If there is a legitimate EV business out there, it should stand on its own, and not take tax dollars that were originally intended for something else, to prop it up. The big boys, or someone will figure out a way to make affordable EVs. Thats what free enterprise, innovation, and good old American knowhow is all about, or should be. Financially I do not need a rebate/credit in any way shape or form. Would I take it? All day long. Does that sound pretty shitty? I'm sure it does. Mr. Musk has proven himself to be a very smart guy, and has changed a business that has not seen fundamental change since its inception. Lots of people are catching up, and surpassing in some cases, quickly. I can't imagine what the EV architecture and pricing of 2030 (500 mile range...10 minute charge time/and who knows) looks like vs. today as more really smart people jump into the ring. As an old school, and just old, person the EV thing has been kind of unimaginable. Hell, I've gone from a street rumbling 428 Super Cobra Jet to a wimpy 4 cylinder RDX and before I die, no engine at all, faster that any of those. Crazy stuff. American ingenuity will get it done, in due time.
I almost stopped reading with the "government is smart AF" comment. Because no, they're not. If they were smart they wouldn't be incentivizing an industry that can't produce enough product as it is. They want everyone to buy EV's, but neither the industry nor the electrical grid can contend with everyone driving EV's, and it's going to be a while before they can.
The government is giving away money here. They're reducing tax revenue, which is no different than spending money. You say it's your money. No, it's not. You were taxed fair and square, or at least fair according to the government you claim is smart AF. When you take that money back, you're taking money out of the pot that is supposed to be supporting us as a collective whole. The pot which is completely empty, btw, with an IOU at the bottom so large we may never pay it back. Sooner or later, it's going to catch up with us.
Having said all that, I don't expect anyone to buy an EV and not take advantage of the available credit. It would be foolish not to. What I am saying is that there should be no tax credit. If the government is hell-bent on spending our tax money, putting it into the charging infrastructure would be the way to go. Remove the charging obstacles, and the reduced operating costs combined with increased performance should be all the incentive buyers need to buy into EV's with their own money.
The government has convinced you that you need to lobby for others to pay taxes. And for you to feel good about paying taxes. They have you thinking that by keeping the money I worked for, I am "not doing my fair share". Tell me, what's someone else's share of what I worked for? Whatever percent the government says it is? HAH! In fact, you have expressed that you think I am not only "not doing my fair share", but rather, that I am "taking money from others". What do you think of all the people who literally do not have to pay taxes? Do you feel any kind of upset toward them for not even contributing in the first place, if of sound body and mind? What if I took a pay cut for an easy job position, would I have "robbed you of my loss in revenue via paying less taxes"? Where do you really want to take those sentiments, logically speaking?
The government has you all simping for its money grubbing...and you call it stupid and inefficient? It's got you singing its praises and thinking all those tax dollars are about feeding orphans and paving roads or something "good for you" (you: "the pot that is supposed to be supporting us as a collective whole".). I don't know how much you've looked into WHAT the money buys regarding healthcare and military (our greatest expenses), but it's nothing awesome, I promise you. It's a bunch of BS. Fat government contracts. "Not for profit" hospitals. Absolutely stupid military procurements literally designed to sop up money so that next year's spending is justified. Yes. Count me out of "doing my part" any legal way you can. Re-evaluate what you're donating all your money to, if you pay taxes (which I presume you do, if you're a member of this forum). The government doesn't waste money. It soaks it up like a sponge. Every one of those dollars is accounted for, and when used to buy absolutely mind-numbingly dumb things, it's being spent to justify next year's fiscal budget. The government literally funds companies shenanigans to justify funding MORE shenanigans. Sometimes the goal is to spend money so as to spend MORE money in the future. It's wild, but that's exactly how it works. It's similar, but on a HUGE SCALE, as a business owner who bankrupts a few companies of theirs every few years, wash, rinse, repeat. They are not a bad business owner, they just recognize that there is money in bankruptcy. It sounds preposterous but it works. THAT is the kind of genius I am telling you the government is. Good for IT. Not for you and I. Hence my desire to participate as little as required.
You're talking about LOCAL government. Like the taxes I pay to my county so the FD can buy a new truck, hoses, etc. I can support that 100%, and I voted to raise taxes to support literally that very thing last year, as well as to raise my HOA's fees so that the roads can be cared for better. We have 100% funds transparency, and it all goes to US as a community. THAT I can support, I am a part of it, and I have a say in it. Federal taxes? Screw that. And to think Biden is trying to give people money for student loans...nope. I worked. I paid. I will keep as much of that money as I can so he doesn't give it to people who won't. Or to fund the next billion-ton immobile artillery project that never sees production. Or whatever dumb mess.
Last edited by Unobtanium; 07-21-2022 at 01:09 PM.
Agree completely, but across the board for any price range EV. Whats the government credit for buying a 25K Civic right now....zero. If there is a legitimate EV business out there, it should stand on its own, and not take tax dollars that were originally intended for something else, to prop it up. The big boys, or someone will figure out a way to make affordable EVs. Thats what free enterprise, innovation, and good old American knowhow is all about, or should be. Financially I do not need a rebate/credit in any way shape or form. Would I take it? All day long. Does that sound pretty shitty? I'm sure it does. Mr. Musk has proven himself to be a very smart guy, and has changed a business that has not seen fundamental change since its inception. Lots of people are catching up, and surpassing in some cases, quickly. I can't imagine what the EV architecture and pricing of 2030 (500 mile range...10 minute charge time/and who knows) looks like vs. today as more really smart people jump into the ring. As an old school, and just old, person the EV thing has been kind of unimaginable. Hell, I've gone from a street rumbling 428 Super Cobra Jet to a wimpy 4 cylinder RDX and before I die, no engine at all, faster that any of those. Crazy stuff. American ingenuity will get it done, in due time.
Politics aside, because whatever...
The EV6 has an 18 minute 10-80% charge time, and will go 274mi on a 100% charge. That's today. Right now.
Right now they are playing with chemistry, electronic management, cell packaging, etc. Once a legitimate break in chemistry happens, then the magic will occur. Until then it's just whittling at margins. 226mi vs. 274mi. 18 minutes vs. 30 minutes, etc.
That said, Tesla never interested me. Their build quality is abysmal, even if their electric motors and software are next level.
Also interesting is how many "fast" cars from the era of your 428CJ the wimpy RDX would slaughter. Absolutely wild. https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/te...t-really-make/
Seems it ran high 13's off the showroom floor. Or, a lot slower than a 2.0 Civic Type R. Not dogging it at all, as it has more soul than anything else made in the last several decades, but technology...wow. EV's are even crazier. The C40 I just reserved will run 0-60 in the low 4's and the quarter in the 12's.
Last edited by Unobtanium; 07-21-2022 at 01:06 PM.
No question. I was very aware that my wimpy 4 banger RDX is faster 0-60 than my Shelby, and of course we all know these unreal EV numbers....unreal! At 65 I am fully aware there are not a whole of years left in front of me...having one EV in my life would be fun I guess. Just as cars once got a horrible 5-10 MPG, and now substantially better, EV's will likely see the same advancements over the upcoming years. Same boat with Tesla, nothing much there is appealing to me, but giving credit where credit is due, Musk is the one that did it for the general population. Anyway,....what was the topic of this thread again?
No question. I was very aware that my wimpy 4 banger RDX is faster 0-60 than my Shelby, and of course we all know these unreal EV numbers....unreal! At 65 I am fully aware there are not a whole of years left in front of me...having one EV in my life would be fun I guess. Just as cars once got a horrible 5-10 MPG, and now substantially better, EV's will likely see the same advancements over the upcoming years. Same boat with Tesla, nothing much there is appealing to me, but giving credit where credit is due, Musk is the one that did it for the general population. Anyway,....what was the topic of this thread again?
Cars
Yup. At 65? When I reach 65 I want to do whatever I can afford to do, financially, mentally, and physically. So if you want an EV. Go buy one! If you want to rock the Shelby? Do it. Whatever man, as long as you're happy and doing the best you can to stay that way without harming others, I think it's the right way!
Not much of a Lexus SUV fan, but I must say, that 2023 RX looks pretty damn good. Especially in white
Agree - after my RDX left me stranded with the infamous limp mode - among other issues - I made a beeline to Lexus and bought a '22 NX 350 F Sport Handling. I was so mad at this RDX I just wanted out and took my chances with the fully-optioned model they happened to have on the lot. Literally stole it out from under someone who was out on a test drive. Paid cash for it on the spot before the car came back. Risky? You bet. I had no idea what I was getting into, but wanted out of the RDX and I came in hot and did this. The RDX nearly killed me on the road an hour before by suddenly limping in highway traffic and I wanted out.
Nevertheless, The NX I bought handles surprisingly well for what I have always called a 'squishy-handling' brand. The thing is screwed together better than you can possibly imagine. It has just as much punch as the RDX. The ONLY downside I see in having done this is I gave up the ELS audio. ELS really is the sh*t. Mark Levinson can't hold a candle to ELS. Is it a showstopper? Nope. Does my infotainment work flawlessly? Yep. Is the NX a good looking car? I think it is but a dad always thinks his child is good looking I can tell you this - I've been told by complete strangers how hot the car is. Mine is Atomic Silver. I could write paragraphs on the difference in the dealership experience.. don't get me started how night-and-day things are over at Lexus.
As I add and subtract car choices from my list for a 2023 purchase, the new 2023 RX is one of the few remaining. Of course need to actually see, price and drive one, but I like the changes. Who knows. On the other end of the spectrum, I think the new 2023 CRV is pretty sharp looking also. So many great choices these days.
As I add and subtract car choices from my list for a 2023 purchase, the new 2023 RX is one of the few remaining. Of course need to actually see, price and drive one, but I like the changes. Who knows. On the other end of the spectrum, I think the new 2023 CRV is pretty sharp looking also. So many great choices these days.
I really like what I've seen with the forthcoming styling changes at Honda.
Agree - after my RDX left me stranded with the infamous limp mode - among other issues - I made a beeline to Lexus and bought a '22 NX 350 F Sport Handling. I was so mad at this RDX I just wanted out and took my chances with the fully-optioned model they happened to have on the lot. Literally stole it out from under someone who was out on a test drive. Paid cash for it on the spot before the car came back. Risky? You bet. I had no idea what I was getting into, but wanted out of the RDX and I came in hot and did this. The RDX nearly killed me on the road an hour before by suddenly limping in highway traffic and I wanted out.
Nevertheless, The NX I bought handles surprisingly well for what I have always called a 'squishy-handling' brand. The thing is screwed together better than you can possibly imagine. It has just as much punch as the RDX. The ONLY downside I see in having done this is I gave up the ELS audio. ELS really is the sh*t. Mark Levinson can't hold a candle to ELS. Is it a showstopper? Nope. Does my infotainment work flawlessly? Yep. Is the NX a good looking car? I think it is but a dad always thinks his child is good looking I can tell you this - I've been told by complete strangers how hot the car is. Mine is Atomic Silver. I could write paragraphs on the difference in the dealership experience.. don't get me started how night-and-day things are over at Lexus.
Sounds like something I MIGHT have done, but I always need to test drive a potential new car before purchasing it. I presume you did this. How much over MSRP did you have to pay? Also, will you post a picture of your new Lexus? I now the isn't a Lexus forum, but enquiring minds want to see it.
Agree - after my RDX left me stranded with the infamous limp mode - among other issues - I made a beeline to Lexus and bought a '22 NX 350 F Sport Handling. I was so mad at this RDX I just wanted out and took my chances with the fully-optioned model they happened to have on the lot. Literally stole it out from under someone who was out on a test drive. Paid cash for it on the spot before the car came back. Risky? You bet. I had no idea what I was getting into, but wanted out of the RDX and I came in hot and did this. The RDX nearly killed me on the road an hour before by suddenly limping in highway traffic and I wanted out.
Nevertheless, The NX I bought handles surprisingly well for what I have always called a 'squishy-handling' brand. The thing is screwed together better than you can possibly imagine. It has just as much punch as the RDX. The ONLY downside I see in having done this is I gave up the ELS audio. ELS really is the sh*t. Mark Levinson can't hold a candle to ELS. Is it a showstopper? Nope. Does my infotainment work flawlessly? Yep. Is the NX a good looking car? I think it is but a dad always thinks his child is good looking I can tell you this - I've been told by complete strangers how hot the car is. Mine is Atomic Silver. I could write paragraphs on the difference in the dealership experience.. don't get me started how night-and-day things are over at Lexus.
No question the dealership experience really differentiates a car. In a perfect world you never go there so it doesn't really matter, but it's not a perfect world of course. I don't now that I would describe Acura dealers any better than Dodge or Ford dealers, maybe they have no intention of being any better. I've never owned a Lexus, yet, but have had a few BMW's and yes, the experience is far better (someone meets me as I pull into the service area, I have had my car picked form my house, and so on). Of the 2 Acura dealers in Vegas, the one we bought our RDX from I would never go in their front door again. When they called me a few months ago to see if I wanted to trade in/sell my RDX, I told them exactly that. They seemed a bit speechless after that. The other one, which we get from service from, has been a bit of a clown show (most recently the rear hatch won't fully close, and the reopens, pretty often.They have replaced the hatch motor, had numerous people look at it, called whoever and the problem remains. On Wednesday it is going in for it's 4th time for this issue...at least it still under warranty until Sept, and thankfully I suppose, we bought a 4 year extended warranty. Because of the dealers, the infotainment issues, and others, an Acura is off our list for a 2023. As much as I never thought I would say this, BMW X3 may be back on it. I was looking at the local stock and the prices are actually pretty decent....as an example, a Kia Sorento in stock locally ( likely pretty/fully loaded) is 51K, most of the X3 stock is is 46-51. I think between a Kia and a BMW for pretty similar dollars, BMW likely wins every time. But, then there is that 2023 Lexus RX too...oh, and that 2023 GLC...it never ends.
No question the dealership experience really differentiates a car. In a perfect world you never go there so it doesn't really matter, but it's not a perfect world of course. I don't now that I would describe Acura dealers any better than Dodge or Ford dealers, maybe they have no intention of being any better. I've never owned a Lexus, yet, but have had a few BMW's and yes, the experience is far better (someone meets me as I pull into the service area, I have had my car picked form my house, and so on). Of the 2 Acura dealers in Vegas, the one we bought our RDX from I would never go in their front door again. When they called me a few months ago to see if I wanted to trade in/sell my RDX, I told them exactly that. They seemed a bit speechless after that. The other one, which we get from service from, has been a bit of a clown show (most recently the rear hatch won't fully close, and the reopens, pretty often.They have replaced the hatch motor, had numerous people look at it, called whoever and the problem remains. On Wednesday it is going in for it's 4th time for this issue...at least it still under warranty until Sept, and thankfully I suppose, we bought a 4 year extended warranty. Because of the dealers, the infotainment issues, and others, an Acura is off our list for a 2023. As much as I never thought I would say this, BMW X3 may be back on it. I was looking at the local stock and the prices are actually pretty decent....as an example, a Kia Sorento in stock locally ( likely pretty/fully loaded) is 51K, most of the X3 stock is is 46-51. I think between a Kia and a BMW for pretty similar dollars, BMW likely wins every time. But, then there is that 2023 Lexus RX too...oh, and that 2023 GLC...it never ends.
Interesting - I had my rear door motors replaced three times - every time resulted in other things broken or wrong. With the icing on the cake being dirty handprints on the light gray headliner and panels in the back. And funny you mentioned Ford. Of all the cars I've had I've had ONE American car - a 1993 Ford Probe GT... it wasn't even 100% Ford... it was a collaboration product between Ford and Mazda. The dealer experience was really really bad. My dealer never reached that level as far as the service writer and environment, but man the work product sure was at parity with Ford.
The good news is you have plentiful options - this is a great time to have choices in what to buy - or not.
As I add and subtract car choices from my list for a 2023 purchase, the new 2023 RX is one of the few remaining. Of course need to actually see, price and drive one, but I like the changes. Who knows. On the other end of the spectrum, I think the new 2023 CRV is pretty sharp looking also. So many great choices these days.
My main complaint is that I fear they will use the same AWD system as the RAV4 Prime, and it was pure trash.
My main complaint is that I fear they will use the same AWD system as the RAV4 Prime, and it was pure trash.
I think the AWD systems in the RX are different based on whether or not you choose one of the hybrid models vs the 350 with the 2.4T. My guess is the AWD in the 450h+ is very close - if not identical - to the R4P.
A Kia Sorento for $51k? Does that include a markup?
No mark up. It has a 'view window sticker' link..TOTAL MANUFACTURER'S SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE $ 51,390.00
2 0f the 3 dealers here have Sorentos north of 50K. I will say however, I see it is a 'plug in hybrid'. I don't really know what plug in hybrids add to the price exactly, but for the gas savings and what seems like a lot more that non plug in hybrids, as I look at them in dealers stock....could a hybrid really save that much in gas money vs a on plug in?..But yea...the X3's..the current 2022 GLC's (2023 is not out yet) are very competitively priced...I'm not saying they option up the same (I'm sure they don't) but still. The snobby part of me says get the BMW or MB when it comes out...and of course the 2023 RX.I have not seen pricing on that yet as it's not out either. My wife is very much against the MB because she doesn't "want to be one of those people". I'm like... Vickie, we had 3 BMW's, whats the difference, but to her there apparently is one,. But, we'll see. Of course, the warranty period on the German cars is a little ugly. I noticed too, sticking with the Korean cars a little more, looking at stock of the G70 Genesis which I like, that the prices of those were pretty painful, again comparing to BMW/MB/Lexus. Did the Korean cars go up a chunk in prices lately?
My main complaint is that I fear they will use the same AWD system as the RAV4 Prime, and it was pure trash.
Good point, because the RDX system is of course pretty damn good. (I think the Subaru's is also)' When we lived in Reno it was a pleasure to drive in ice/snow. But now back to Vegas, of course not so much. However, as Lake Mead seems destined to run out of water, about 3 million of us might be getting the hell out of here soon!
Interesting - I had my rear door motors replaced three times - every time resulted in other things broken or wrong. With the icing on the cake being dirty handprints on the light gray headliner and panels in the back. And funny you mentioned Ford. Of all the cars I've had I've had ONE American car - a 1993 Ford Probe GT... it wasn't even 100% Ford... it was a collaboration product between Ford and Mazda. The dealer experience was really really bad. My dealer never reached that level as far as the service writer and environment, but man the work product sure was at parity with Ford.
The good news is you have plentiful options - this is a great time to have choices in what to buy - or not.
Thanks, interesting to hear about your motor....3 times! Yikes. And as for Ford, I was not picking on them, it was just a random choice. I have no idea what their service is like. Our SIL bought a new Ranger last year and I think he has been pretty happy with the dealer.
And yes, a lot of good options. I told my wife about the 2023 CRV, which I think I mentioned before, that in the pictures the inside /outside look pretty nice. We test drove a 2019 CRV and I was not crazy about the 1.5 engine, although i see they have boosted the power a little, and it seemed a little cheap'ish on the inside. Of course, it's not in the same league, by any stretch, as the MB, Acura and Lexus we test drove. But, we will probably give the 2023 a shot.
Just the two hybrid powertrains where an electric motor provides power to the rear at launch and when slip occurs. (Known as "through the road" AWD because there is no mechanical connection.) The gasser Rav4 has Toyota's Dynamic Torque Control AWD, which is a mechanical setup offering torque vectoring across the rear axle similar to SH-AWD. It has has 50:50 front-rear lock capability as well for low speed (under 25mph I believe) driving in deep snow or off-road. It is a very capable system.
Last edited by HotRodW; 07-23-2022 at 08:57 PM.
Reason: typo
Sounds like something I MIGHT have done, but I always need to test drive a potential new car before purchasing it. I presume you did this. How much over MSRP did you have to pay? Also, will you post a picture of your new Lexus? I now the isn't a Lexus forum, but enquiring minds want to see it.
So the dealer near me here in Atlanta is selling all their new inventory at msrp - no markup, ADM, etc. they DID attempt to play the game of overcharging for the tinted windows they added but I negotiated a trailer hitch at no cost so it was acceptable on my end. They gave me $3K more than I paid for the RDX 2.5 yrs ago. Maybe I accidentally created a perfect storm when I pulled out my laptop to wire funds to pay for the car but it was a pretty drama-free experience. The one sales guy did give me the stink eye when he returned and learned I bought the car while he was out with a client. Sorry.
So the dealer near me here in Atlanta is selling all their new inventory at msrp - no markup, ADM, etc. they DID attempt to play the game of overcharging for the tinted windows they added but I negotiated a trailer hitch at no cost so it was acceptable on my end. They gave me $3K more than I paid for the RDX 2.5 yrs ago. Maybe I accidentally created a perfect storm when I pulled out my laptop to wire funds to pay for the car but it was a pretty drama-free experience. The one sales guy did give me the stink eye when he returned and learned I bought the car while he was out with a client. Sorry.
Adding photo as requested.
Sweet. Sounds like a great deal. Got more for your RDX than 2 years ago - that's impressive and crazy at the same time. Which NX model did you end up getting?
Sweet. Sounds like a great deal. Got more for your RDX than 2 years ago - that's impressive and crazy at the same time. Which NX model did you end up getting?
Thanks... I think the stars aligned in a number of ways. This is the NX 350 F-Sport model.
I know this is off topic a bit but it is something I just thought of - the two manufacturers have implemented active sound control so very differently. My RDX had the augmented engine sounds especially at low RPMs that you could hear and discern easily. The NX has active sound control but it doesn't augment engine sounds (from what I can tell) - it is said (from what i've been able to find on this system)... it seems to be designed specifically to abate undesirable sounds and frequencies in the cabin. Seems to be same or similar tech but implemented very differently. The NX cabin is very - very - quiet by my standards, but I come from a long line of sports cars as raw as I could possibly have them. The biggest offender with cabin noise in the NX seems to be these [insert expletive here] runflat tires. Like all of my current and past BMWs, these RFTs will be replaced with non-RFT rubber as soon as I can justify it. I don't want to simply toss these tires out as they are perfectly good. As soon as Continental launches the DWS 06 tires in the 20" tire size I need for the NX, I'll begin prowling for a new set of shoes.
This does leave me a bit vulnerable to being stranded - The M cars I drove for decades came with a pump, a can of fix-o-flat, and roadside assistance. Every time I replaced any RFTs on the bimmers, I'd simply outfit the car with the same setup as my M cars. I'll do the same with the NX.
... wow... this is a great example of my ADD brain at work... lol -
No spare nor run flats on the RDX Aspec. Cross my fingers I never get a flat too far from a tire store. As long as the sidewall is strong/stiff on the non-run-flats, you just drive slow til you get someplace to replace the tire. Having the insta flat fix kit + a small compressor helps too. Enjoy the new ride.
No spare nor run flats on the RDX Aspec. Cross my fingers I never get a flat too far from a tire store. As long as the sidewall is strong/stiff on the non-run-flats, you just drive slow til you get someplace to replace the tire. Having the insta flat fix kit + a small compressor helps too. Enjoy the new ride.
Ahh - I forgot about that. I had the RDX Tech w/ the spare hanging under the car.
No spare nor run flats on the RDX Aspec. Cross my fingers I never get a flat too far from a tire store. As long as the sidewall is strong/stiff on the non-run-flats, you just drive slow til you get someplace to replace the tire. Having the insta flat fix kit + a small compressor helps too. Enjoy the new ride.
I always just carry a small compressor. If that won't limp me to the tire store, then sealant won't either, and it costs less time than swapping tires on the side of the road and is less dangerous.
No question the dealership experience really differentiates a car. In a perfect world you never go there so it doesn't really matter, but it's not a perfect world of course. I don't now that I would describe Acura dealers any better than Dodge or Ford dealers, maybe they have no intention of being any better. I've never owned a Lexus, yet, but have had a few BMW's and yes, the experience is far better (someone meets me as I pull into the service area, I have had my car picked form my house, and so on). Of the 2 Acura dealers in Vegas, the one we bought our RDX from I would never go in their front door again. When they called me a few months ago to see if I wanted to trade in/sell my RDX, I told them exactly that. They seemed a bit speechless after that. The other one, which we get from service from, has been a bit of a clown show (most recently the rear hatch won't fully close, and the reopens, pretty often.They have replaced the hatch motor, had numerous people look at it, called whoever and the problem remains. On Wednesday it is going in for it's 4th time for this issue...at least it still under warranty until Sept, and thankfully I suppose, we bought a 4 year extended warranty. Because of the dealers, the infotainment issues, and others, an Acura is off our list for a 2023. As much as I never thought I would say this, BMW X3 may be back on it. I was looking at the local stock and the prices are actually pretty decent....as an example, a Kia Sorento in stock locally ( likely pretty/fully loaded) is 51K, most of the X3 stock is is 46-51. I think between a Kia and a BMW for pretty similar dollars, BMW likely wins every time. But, then there is that 2023 Lexus RX too...oh, and that 2023 GLC...it never ends.
My Acura dealership experiences have been dismal, including one time they completed warranty work and I get about halfway home and had to stop a little suddenly and heard this loud THUMP. I pull over to look around and found that they had left their tools in my car (I didn't notice them because they were under the seats) and the noise was from them sliding and hitting the seats. I drove back to the dealership to return them and didn't get an apology and barely even a thank you.
My Acura dealership experiences have been dismal, including one time they completed warranty work and I get about halfway home and had to stop a little suddenly and heard this loud THUMP. I pull over to look around and found that they had left their tools in my car (I didn't notice them because they were under the seats) and the noise was from them sliding and hitting the seats. I drove back to the dealership to return them and didn't get an apology and barely even a thank you.
they were trying to get rid of the tools to get new ones and you spoiled it.
My Acura dealership experiences have been dismal, including one time they completed warranty work and I get about halfway home and had to stop a little suddenly and heard this loud THUMP. I pull over to look around and found that they had left their tools in my car (I didn't notice them because they were under the seats) and the noise was from them sliding and hitting the seats. I drove back to the dealership to return them and didn't get an apology and barely even a thank you.
I've had that happen - rare but it has happened. My biggest issue with service at my dealer was breaking something when fixing another item, and the bear paw handprints on my headliner and interior panels and dashboard when the car is returned to me. I understand this happens but geez - just wipe it down.
My Acura dealership experiences have been dismal, including one time they completed warranty work and I get about halfway home and had to stop a little suddenly and heard this loud THUMP. I pull over to look around and found that they had left their tools in my car (I didn't notice them because they were under the seats) and the noise was from them sliding and hitting the seats. I drove back to the dealership to return them and didn't get an apology and barely even a thank you.
At least they agreed to fix whatever issue you had. Mine refused to replace my dead battery under warranty because they claimed it was good (it was in fact not), and they wouldn't replace my defective key fob because (and I quote) "we can't prove that you didn't break it dropping it into water or on the ground". They also wouldn't address the door clicking/creaking issue until a TSB finally came out for it, and then they dragged their feet fixing both doors because the original TSB only mentioned the driver side door until it was revised. I guess maybe this is why the average warranty repair costs for Acura is so low...
they were trying to get rid of the tools to get new ones and you spoiled it.
The tools were all in great shape but yes maybe this was their plan.
Originally Posted by TheDatanator
I've had that happen - rare but it has happened. My biggest issue with service at my dealer was breaking something when fixing another item, and the bear paw handprints on my headliner and interior panels and dashboard when the car is returned to me. I understand this happens but geez - just wipe it down.
Ugh yeah that is maddening and luckily that didn't happen to me. But I was back and forth to the dealership so often during my first few years of ownership and so many things got replaced under warranty e.g. six speakers (and not all at once either so imagine the amount of trips for this), trim pieces, VTC actuator, XM module, brakes, battery... The running joke was that I will be keeping the car forever because so many components were newer than the car. And here we are 13 years later and I am still driving it ha ha!
And now that I am thinking about this subject another experience: they stopped their loaner program and never told us customers. As I am wrapping up my appt. another guy is having a discussion about the loaner program and says, "It would have been great to know about this before now, as how am I going to get to work?" They say, "Oh don't worry about that one, sir, we have a shuttle service now." He is telling them where he works and I learn it is next to my building which is about seven miles away. They say, "Oh that may be an issue, as that is outside of a five mile radius." The guy damn near hits the roof and they start going back and forth and the SA is making less and less sense. I jump in and asked the guy if we would like to just ride with me. On the way we had a great conversation about how many times our cars had to come in for warranty work, how badly the service was now and how Acura is no longer near the top of our list for our next vehicles
Originally Posted by fiatlux
At least they agreed to fix whatever issue you had. Mine refused to replace my dead battery under warranty because they claimed it was good (it was in fact not), and they wouldn't replace my defective key fob because (and I quote) "we can't prove that you didn't break it dropping it into water or on the ground". They also wouldn't address the door clicking/creaking issue until a TSB finally came out for it, and then they dragged their feet fixing both doors because the original TSB only mentioned the driver side door until it was revised. I guess maybe this is why the average warranty repair costs for Acura is so low...
Ugh yeah that is awful and sorry to hear this. They did try this w/ my VTC Actuator but I wouldn't leave until they heard it. Once they did they said okay, we will take care of it (and I showed up w/ a video of it from that day too).
The tools were all in great shape but yes maybe this was their plan.
Years ago I had a Honda Civic and after picking up the car from service and hearing a funny rattle, I found a screwdriver in the engine bay. More recently, after some body work, I found the shop left a car hat on the floor of the back seat. And in both cases there was no apology or thank you for returning them.
No spare nor run flats on the RDX Aspec. Cross my fingers I never get a flat too far from a tire store. As long as the sidewall is strong/stiff on the non-run-flats, you just drive slow til you get someplace to replace the tire. Having the insta flat fix kit + a small compressor helps too. Enjoy the new ride.
Remember, or FYI, that Acura compressor/fix-it can thing has an expiration date stamped on them that is not an overly long period. In that there is no spare tire (on Aspec) it would be pretty bad to find out the fix-it thing was DOA. We had a spare tire added to our ASpec right after buying it, and left the fix-it device in place a swell. Granted it has been forever since I have had a spare, but with these low profile tires, I'm sure fate is awaiting.
Remember, or FYI, that Acura compressor/fix-it can thing has an expiration date stamped on them that is not an overly long period. In that there is no spare tire (on Aspec) it would be pretty bad to find out the fix-it thing was DOA. We had a spare tire added to our ASpec right after buying it, and left the fix-it device in place a swell. Granted it has been forever since I have had a spare, but with these low profile tires, I'm sure fate is awaiting.
when I was in college and ultra thin condoms were a newer thing, my roommate and I filled up a bunch like water balloons along with regular. We chucked them at the shower wall to see how resistant to burst they were. Ultra thin won notably. Drunken college times.
Anyway, technology is a helluva thing. 45s arent even low pro anymore.
07-20-2022, 09:57 PM
I can tell you this - I've been told by complete strangers how hot the car is. Mine is Atomic Silver. I could write paragraphs on the difference in the dealership experience.. don't get me started how night-and-day things are over at Lexus. 
